RayTaulbot's PERSONAL Handicapping Method

[nagwa]

hi, anyone know or heard of this before..only other books i have seen are his handicappping lessons..thanks

[timtam]

This guy was THE man before many of our times. Do a search or even a

google and you will find countless articles either by the author himself

or others. He is famous for his Pace Slide Rule among other things.

[Donnie]

I own a TON of old American Turf Monthly's from the 50's and 60's. He was a regular writer for them and penned excellent article after excellent article. A number of other very prominent handicappers wrote for ATM at that time as well!

[Tom]

Many of his articles are on the ATM website.

[lsosa54]

This one is up to $165 or so on Ebay with 12 hours to go. I have the utmost respect for Mr. Taulbot, but are these things being sold for their "collectors value" or can folks really sit down with these items and devise a profitable methodology?

Also, how does one judge Boots Baker's handicapping course that went for $58 a few days ago vs. this one. It appears Mr. Baker used to write "alongside" Mr. Taulbot, maybe for ATM?

I see anything with the Taulbot name attached go for what I think are ridiculous amounts on EBAY and wonder if the buyers ever profitably use these things? One could include anything POPS & TIPS related, the Bert Norman stuff, the one Eric Langjahr item I've seen, etc. The complete craziness is what I've seen Mike Pizzola's stuff going for and I am a fan of Mike P.

As an example, what could be of more value to a handicapper: Quinn's Handicapper's Condition Book which you can find for a few $ used (the updated DRF published version) to give you some ideas on contender selection or some of these items?

I don't know but I'd lean towards Quinn's tome.

[Murph]

This one is up to $165 or so on Ebay with 12 hours to go. I have the utmost respect for Mr. Taulbot, but are these things being sold for their "collectors value" or can folks really sit down with these items and devise a profitable methodology?

Also, how does one judge Boots Baker's handicapping course that went for $58 a few days ago vs. this one. It appears Mr. Baker used to write "alongside" Mr. Taulbot, maybe for ATM?

I see anything with the Taulbot name attached go for what I think are ridiculous amounts on EBAY and wonder if the buyers ever profitably use these things? One could include anything POPS & TIPS related, the Bert Norman stuff, the one Eric Langjahr item I've seen, etc. The complete craziness is what I've seen Mike Pizzola's stuff going for and I am a fan of Mike P.

As an example, what could be of more value to a handicapper: Quinn's Handicapper's Condition Book which you can find for a few $ used (the updated DRF published version) to give you some ideas on contender selection or some of these items?

I don't know but I'd lean towards Quinn's tome.The vintage handicapping items will have different values to different people. I think having an item like that lends an "aura of expertise" to an otherwise mediocre handicapping talent. Your last line says it all.

Murph

[Donnie]

My take is that the Quinn stuff was WAY over published (as is the case with many "modern day" authors). EVERYBODY has read them. Whether everyone walks away with the same take is the question.
I have a stack of Bert Norman newsletters and there is stuff in those you WILL NOT see anywhere else. Bert would take an angle that a subscriber would send in and Bert would test it. In some cases he would twist it and the followup letters in many cases were letters of praise for "how wonderful this angle works!" Other people would write in with a "discovery" they made while testing an angle. The newsletters definitely get the juices flowing!
I have "borrowed" a few things from a few of his newsletters... someday I will have to sit down and read thru all of them.....

[lsosa54]

My take is that the Quinn stuff was WAY over published (as is the case with many "modern day" authors). EVERYBODY has read them. Whether everyone walks away with the same take is the question.
I have a stack of Bert Norman newsletters and there is stuff in those you WILL NOT see anywhere else. Bert would take an angle that a subscriber would send in and Bert would test it. In some cases he would twist it and the followup letters in many cases were letters of praise for "how wonderful this angle works!" Other people would write in with a "discovery" they made while testing an angle. The newsletters definitely get the juices flowing!
I have "borrowed" a few things from a few of his newsletters... someday I will have to sit down and read thru all of them.....


Don't disagree with what you said about the "modern day" authors being over published or about Bert's newsletters in terms of idea generation. I think one of the first things I had was Bert's Quick Score Handicapping.

My thought is that not everyone walks away with the same take. Proper contender selection is critical for me and where I don't take Quinn literally on every word, he makes sense in terms of what type of horses fit certain races, no matter what their speed or pace ratings might say. Nothing works all the time but his thoughts have been very helpful.

[Lefty]

isosa54, Boots Baker wrote in the same era as Taulbot but he wrote for Turf Guide, the competition...

[lsosa54]

isosa54, Boots Baker wrote in the same era as Taulbot but he wrote for Turf Guide, the competition...

Appreciate it Lefty. I just wasn't familiar with him.

[Big Bill]

Donnie,

Do you recall an article from any ATM in your collection of the 60's that described how one could make a daily track variant from data available on a single result chart for the applicable day? I had the article at one time but must have tossed in during a house cleaning. My memory is not what it used to be so it could have been from and issue in the 70's. In fact, it could have been an article published in Gambling Times. Told you my memory is lacking. :)

Big Bill

[Donnie]

Hey Big--
I'll page thru some of them this weekend for you! They always put Ray's story right on the front cover so if I have it, it shouldn't be too diffucult to find!
BOL!

[Richard]

Taulbot always had a reccurring theme to the effect that you should'nt expect to find more than 1-2 good plays per day per track.Personally,I find that pretty good advice.Seems like playing too many races,no matter what method/program you use,does'nt do the bankroll a whole lot of good.Sure,handicap the entire card,but hold out for only the best plays.

[GaryG]

Donnie,

Do you recall an article from any ATM in your collection of the 60's that described how one could make a daily track variant from data available on a single result chart for the applicable day? I had the article at one time but must have tossed in during a house cleaning. My memory is not what it used to be so it could have been from and issue in the 70's. In fact, it could have been an article published in Gambling Times. Told you my memory is lacking. :)

Big BillBill, I don't believe Taulbot ever wrote on a daily variant. They published something called Amer Var which they sold, I think with the pace calculator. ATM did publish some articles on speed handicapping by Pat Cabell in the early 60s. As I remember it was a modern approach and included making a variant. This guy was way ahead of his time and is virtually unknown today.

[Lefty]

Amervar was on the flip side of the pace calculator and involved class of race as well as speed.

[KyRacer]

Donnie,

Do you recall an article from any ATM in your collection of the 60's that described how one could make a daily track variant from data available on a single result chart for the applicable day? I had the article at one time but must have tossed in during a house cleaning. My memory is not what it used to be so it could have been from and issue in the 70's. In fact, it could have been an article published in Gambling Times. Told you my memory is lacking. :)

Big Bill

Hey Big Bill,

This might be what your looking for. Ray Taulbot wrote an article for the April 1956 issue of ATM called "The Best Race Daily Variant". I don't have the article and haven't read it. Don't know if they ever repeated it. Belows a link to some ATM variant articles.

ATM Variant Article (http://www.americanturf.com/masterindex/index.cfm?startrow=1&sortby=issueyear,issuemonth&sortorder=DESC&SubmitGlobal=1&globalsearch=variant)

[Donnie]

Wow KyRacer! Looks like there may be a few magazines to look thru. I have 6 HUGE 3-ring binders with nothing but ATM's stuffed inside them. I haven't looked thru all of them but I think they do reach back to the 40's!

[GaryG]

Wow KyRacer! Looks like there may be a few magazines to look thru. I have 6 HUGE 3-ring binders with nothing but ATM's stuffed inside them. I haven't looked thru all of them but I think they do reach back to the 40's!I lost mine when I divorced my first wife.....:mad:

[Donnie]

Hope you're having a better time the second time around...I know I sure am!!! :jump:
I laugh when I look thru those things and look at some of the ads! They are incredible!

[Pell Mell]

There's an article in the Dec. 72 issue called Verified Claim System that I believe is still in the black after all these years.

[Tom Barrister]

Getting back to the original question, I remember a friend using Taubot's personal method for a while. It had results similar to Ainslie's personal method in that it found about two plays per race card, and these were usually two of the shortest-odds horses of the day.

No method that I know of is going to crank out a profit all by itself. The various combinations of available information have been beaten to death by the data-miners.

[Big Bill]

Donnie and GaryG,

The article on creating a variant from a result chart was not an article written by Taulbot. It was either in ATM or Gambling Times and I was reminded of it when Donnie said he had old ATMs from the 50's and 60's.

Big Bill

[wes]

I have the old DOS program Ray Taulbot's pace computer program. Also the Tay Taulbot's AMER-VAR II Program. Also have the written instructions on how to use both.

The finished track variant program shows each race with the speed rating. Then is shows you the adjusted Track variant for that card.

wes

[lsosa54]

Final bid was $325 plus $6 to ship. Wonder what it sold for back in the day?

[Lefty]

I don't know what his personal system is, but in the middle 50's he offered to sell me his lessons for $15. My twins weren't very old and money was tight, so i passed. A couple yrs later I bght his Pace Calculator for $20 and used it for years.

[grahors]

Along with CJs figs, I use the Taulbot computer program almost exclusively and with some pretty darn good sucess.
I cut my teeth on the Taulbot articles, books, and calculator.(along with Wm Scott).
Wish I could have met these guys.
I really don't know if his angles have held up over time, but they help me enough to keep me happy.
Cecil
I read and re-read his "lessons" and "final methods" and still learn something. His stuff is timeless.

[nagwa]

hi guys,
thanks..went for over 300 dollars..anyone have further details on ray taulbots excelent methods..

[GameTheory]

You can buy "Positive Factor Handicapping" and "Ways & Means of Winning" from ATM...