Weekend Prayer

[Investorater]

To our President,The Bible has much to say to America at this this particular time.From its prophecies,we must recognize that this nation is at a pivotal point.Two ways lie before us:one of righteousness with God or one of rejection because of pride.The Bible says,"Righteousness exalteth a nation,but sin is a reproach to any nation."

God wants to unite Himself with the leaders of this nation-Now-to bring about a new capacity for humility and love.Repentance gives a nation the right to God's resources,and humility gives access to true prosperity and peace.

Christ cannot be subjugated by party politics.He can never take second place to policy or expediency.You can separate politics from religion but not from Christ!

There is a surplus of guilt in the American soul.It is a growing sense that there is something called sin in the world and that God must either see it forsaken or judged.They know we can no longer be left to our own devices on this aging planet.

In six thousand years,we have fashioned twenty odd civilizations and destroyed every one.Today we are nearer than we ever were before to the possibility of self-extinction.

We have seen what happened to nations who just didn't seem to think God was necessary anymore.With God,gone,they got Communism,Fascism,and Nazism.When God is no longer the hitching post for a nation's morality,a dreadful and abysmal sense of futility follows.The only goal then becomes comfort and the protection of national pride.When a people lose their consciousness of God,they lose their aim in life,and then it is no trick at all to fool mankind into any kind of surrender you plan for him.

Bow before God daily,stretch forth your hands to Heaven,and pray,imploring His mercy on this nation.Millions throughout the land are willing to lay on the counter of human life the price of personal responsibility.Believers throughout the world will be holding you up in prayer.

Not one single American can sit as your judge and our government is not absolute in itself,it derives its power from God and exists only as long God permits it to.Governments rule,not by the consent of people,but by the will of God. David Wilkerson-Racing Toward Judgment-1976

One of the strangest phenomena of human nature is that brilliant minds often make foolish decisions.There is no more common and universal fact of experience than the fact that order never arises spontaneously out of disorder and a design always requires a designer.Yet many scientists and other intellectuals believe that our intricately-designed and infinitely-ordered universe developed all by itself out of primeval chaos!

The law of cause-and-effect is a universally-accepted concept of modern science.If like causes did not produce like effects,in fact,science would be impossible.The world would be a chaos,not a cosmos.Furthermore,since an infinite chain of secondary causes extending chronologically backwards into past eternity is a meaningless and unsatisfying alternative,the concept of a great uncaused First Cause is the most reasonable and powerful explanation for the infinite array of ordered effects which are observed in the universe.

Thus the simplest,and yet most profound,explanation for the world is found in the first verse of God's Word.The tremendous complex of orderly relationships in the universe,challenging the highest intelligence of man to describe,certainly implies an intelligent First Cause of these relationships.It seems absurd in the very nature of things for men to use their own intellectual capacities to try to devise an intelligent explanation of things in terms of non-intelligent origin.How could unthinking atoms create intelligent thought?

The argument from design,therefore,has not at all been refuted by natural selection theory,but is actually stronger than ever.The innumerable and marvelous structures and systems of the cosmos,and their intricate adaptations to each other constitute a vast complex of intelligible order for which creative forethought and design can be the only rational explanation.It is pointless to give examples because literally every system of any kind in the whole cosmos is itself a marvelous model of intricate structure and complex planning

The great Designer who created this wonderful world can be none other than the God of the Bible-omnipotent,omnipresent,omniscient,Holy-yet also personal,loving,and gracious.The Cause of all the phenomena of the universe must encompass at least all their own characteristics.

"He that planted the ear,shall he not hear? He that formed the eye,shall he not see?-He that teacheth man knowledge,shall he not know?" Psalm 94:9,10

The finely-balanced structure of the earth's hydrosphere,atmosphere,and lithosphere are stressed in the rhetorical question of Isaiah 40:12

Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,and meted out heaven with the span,and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure,and weighed the mountains in scales,and the hills in a balance?

As if in answer,the prophet replies by stressing God's omnipotence and omniscience:

"Lift up your eyes on high,and behold who hath created these things,that bringeth out their host by number:He calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might,for that he is strong in power,not one faileth."40:26

The tremendous evidence of design and order in nature encourages us to testify with the Psalmist:"O Lord,how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all:The earth is full of Thy riches." Psalm 104:24.

It is well to recognize that,while the Scriptures place high importance on the distinctiveness of nations and tribes as such,they never once mention the concept of race.Biblically there is only one race-the human race.There is only one kind of man-that is,mankind."God has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,and hath determined the times before appointed,and the bounds of their habitation." Acts 17:26

The idea of race is strictly a category of evolutionary biology,not of Scripture at all,The threefold division of mankind into Japhethites,Semites,and Hamites is not a racial division,but rather of three different streams of nations.The biological entity known as "race," on the other hand,is supposed to be a sub-species in the process of evolving into a new species,with a long evolutionary history of its own.Modern racism has always found its strongest and most vicious expression among doctrinaire evolutionists-men such as Karl Marx,Adolph Hitler,and other such advocates of group struggle and survival of the fittest.

A real understanding of man in relation to his world will never be attained,nor solutions to his problems ever achieved.Man is not an evolved animal and his cultures and institutions have not been developed from the herd-instincts of animals.Rather,he is a unique creation,made in the image of God,and his tribes and nations represent divisions established by God for man's own good and for the ultimate accomplishment of His divine will on the earth,not through their own devices but by His power and grace. Henry M. Morris-The Remarkable Birth Of Planet Earth-1972.

As I understand the-anti-christ-beast-satan possessed-person-is to rise out of Europe.And no,man is not his own god and neither are his inventions.The euro started out at 80 cents against the dollar,now its almost $1.60 to one.Scoffers will come.When is He coming? Keep the faith.Ephesians 2:8,9.The U.S.operated with out a true central bank from the time of its founding under the constitution in 1789 until 1913,a period of 124 years.When 124 is added to 1913,-2037 is gotten.Hopefully our Lord will find reason to return much sooner.-Books on prophecy recommended-any by-William T. James as general editor.

In the realm of cyberspace we are dealing with the natural and the supernatural-the physical world and the spiritual world.That is why when the internet becomes full-blown as the world wide web,people will discover that they have entered the incredible world of Armageddon.It will be an unknown world with uncharted paths and a horrible nightmare without past or future.Man,made in the likeness and image of God,gets all of his capacity for ideas and input from God.Therefore it ultimately all makes sense.

If internet has a soul,might I suggest a possible fulfillment for this gigantic electronic marvel:the image of the beast.This compelling image of the beast of Revelation 13:15-17 says He had power to give life unto the image of the beast,that the image of the beast should both speak and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.And he causeth all,both small and great,rich and poor,free and bond,to recieve a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads,and that no man might buy or sell save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.-This image could appear on our television or computer screens at the impulse of Internet.In fact,during the seven-year period of antichrist supremacy,the image of the beast could be synonymous with the soul of the internet.Consider it.

We must remember that Revelation 13:8 has yet to be fulfilled."All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

The implication of this verse is that antichrist is exerting worldwide control.How is this possible without controlling the computers? Elsewhere we read that the antichrist's religious officer,the false prophet,".....had power to give life unto the image of the beast,that the image of the beast should both speak and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."(Revelation 13:15)

The only conceivable way for this to happen worldwide is through television and computers.TV stations worldwide are now gearing up for digital,computerized image acquisition and distribution.This will be implemented.Thus we see fulfillment of Bible prophecy now clearly possible.

The soul of internet will be the pulsing powerful entity called the image of the beast.As the living tool of antichrist,this huge and horrible instrument of death will direct all worship to antichrist and ultimately the devil.

Consider a world totally dominated by the dark prince-the god of this world who will finally be able to control banking and business,commerce and trade,politics and principalities on high.This will be a world that man has never known before or will ever know again.

After the return and reign of the Lord Jesus Christ,the new heavens and the new earth will be unspeakably glorious and the Son of God will be worshiped by people and angels alike.

God's Internet will direct the world of light and the redeemed.God's Net will enfold all nations into the glorious enjoyment of peace and prosperity.

Let us prepare to walk with Christ in white in a universe without war and where sin will become an obsolete word,a world where God will dwell among people and there will be no death.Believe John 3:16 and be ready to inherit the habitations of His praises!

Best of Luck with the K D choices.

Go Curlin!.......!:ThmbUp:

[lamboguy]

good one!


thanks for taking the time to help us put our lives and our family's lives into perspective

[hcap]

The implication of this verse is that antichrist is exerting worldwide control.How is this possible without controlling the computers? Elsewhere we read that the antichrist's religious officer,the false prophet,".....had power to give life unto the image of the beast,that the image of the beast should both speak and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."(Revelation 13:15)

The only conceivable way for this to happen worldwide is through television and computers.TV stations worldwide are now gearing up for digital,computerized image acquisition and distribution.This will be implemented.Thus we see fulfillment of Bible prophecy now clearly possible.

The soul of internet will be the pulsing powerful entity called the image of the beast.As the living tool of antichrist,this huge and horrible instrument of death will direct all worship to antichrist and ultimately the devil.How do we know this was not composed by the antichrist? After all it was composed on a computer and posted on the internet.

Or maybe aliens? Nostradamus? The easter bunny?

[Gibbon]

...maybe aliens? Nostradamus? The easter bunny? Your eastern mystical 'Tao of nothingness' fantasy cannot compete with evidence based faith.

Every year about this time, the resurrection comes under intense scrutiny. And because truth matter posters like hcap must be set straight. This year is no different. Bill Maher and director Larry Charles partnered to produce a “documentary” called Religulous. Last year, the Discovery Channel aired an hour long “special” claiming the archaeologist had found the “lost tomb of Jesus.”

Typical of mainstream media's relentless attack on Christianity by prostituting historical evidence to fit an anti_Christ agenda. That is, anti-anything-Christian. These claims have been rejected by all but a tiny minority of liberal scholars. The sciences of historicity, archeology, medicine and of course, prophesy declare the bible as authentic and God inspired.

Just a small sliver of evidence...

Fatal Torment – other than noisy fringe, virtually all new testament scholar, both liberal and conservative agree that Jesus died on the cross and was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimatha.

Empty Tomb – Scholars, both liberal and conservative, also agree that Jesus' grave was fond to be uninhabited. Early Christianity simply could not have survived an identifiable tomb containing the corpse of 'the Christ.'

Appearance of Christ – Multiple, documented eyewitnesses confirm that Christ was seen alive after his crucifixion. An early Christian creed codifying this testimony can be traced to within three to eight years of the event. It would be unprecedented for legend to spring up so quickly.

Transformation – only Christ's resurrection explains the fact that his disciples {men of modest convictions} were transformed from cowering fugitives into bold witnesses who were willing to die for their new faith. A faith so unique, resembling nothing antecedent nor succeeding and that thousands were converted in the very city of Christ's execution.

Based on ancient manuscript evidence codified into the bible; records 500+ witnesses to the risen Christ. Many had the opportunity to touch him and to see him doe things that no spirit/ghost could do including eating. One skeptic was invited to touch Christ wounds. Is such claim credible? No less an authority than Simon Greenleaf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Greenleaf), considered by many to have been the world's foremost authority on the legal rules of evidence, thought so.

So to one and all, happy Easter.

[GaryG]

Nice posts Inverstorater and Gibbon. When I saw this thread I knew it would bring out at least one of our resident atheists. Happy Easter to all.

Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

[Tom]

How appropriate, it's Easter and the rotten egg shows up.

[hcap]

Yikes, the man is talking about the antichrist going hi tech.
The soul of internet will be the pulsing powerful entity called the image of the beast.As the living tool of antichrist,this huge and horrible instrument of death will direct all worship to antichrist and ultimately the devil.

I prefer black helicopters, UFOs, and Easter bunnies. At least those attempts to short circuit reason have sentimental value. And have occasionally been made into TV miniseries.

BTW, how do I know all youse guys are really youse guys and not the antichrist posting in the name of religion? :lol:

[Gibbon]

The bible uses allegory, imagery and symbolism to paint a picture of humankind's corruption and depravity. A decrepit, easily influenced state of mind. Many believe physical reality is not all there is. Other immaterial, non-corporeal beings exits in other realms. Call it a spiritual realm or if you prefer Stephen Hawking's multi-dimensional realm. These creatures are not always benevolent some are malevolent hence his reference to devil or demons.

Although I do understand your consternation. Tenzin Gyatso seldom speaks to absolutes, morality or even right from wrong and the fragile nature of human consciousness as it is unduly influenced by these malicious beings.

Hcap, I'd be happy to provide personal counseling in order to help you break the chain of coercive persuasion from these forces. :jump:







__________________________________
Neutral men are the devil's allies. ~ Edwin Hubbel Chapin

[Tom]

I thought that was YOU?

[hcap]

Gibbon,

The allegory of which you speak is the whole cloth of Revelations.
To take it literally is John Hagee, Rod Parsely territory. BTW the Tibetan Book of the Dead is all allegory. The Dali Lama does not confuse symbols for observable facts.

My objection is not to the ALLEGORY of Easter or if even the literal belief of Resurrection, it is to rapture speak, and pea soup spitting, head spinning demons inhabiting the internet tricking us into easy credit card use.

Tom is that you or Linda Blair? :lol:
Only your Exorcist knows for sure.

[Cangamble]

I knew the Jesus tombs were not legit. That is because Jesus never existed.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/time.html

[Gibbon]

...literal belief of Resurrection The book of revelation:yes. On the other hand the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was a real literal event. Nothing else can possibly explain early Christians' pacifist death march at the hands of Roman emperors. They died for something miraculous witnessed first hand.

...head spinning demons inhabiting the internet tricking us... Just a little thought will inevitably conclude we humans are more than physical. An immaterial aspect permeates human consciousness. Logically I can demonstrate that the mind is not identical to the brain. The subjective texture of our conscious mental experiences – feeling mental anguish/suffering, experience of sound/music, the awareness of color/art – irrelevant properties of evolution speaks to a world more than physical matter.

Physically speaking we lose millions of cells from your bodies every day. In fact, apart from our neurological system, virtually every part of our material anatomy is replaced about once every seven years. In other words, you and I get a new replacement body cell by cell every so often. Yet no one could credibly argue we are not the same person because the most important part of our being transcends the physical.

That we have freedom to choose also presupposes we are more than just material robots for if our actions are merely a function of such factors as genetic makeup and brain chemistry, then you and I are NOT free to choose.

Finally, those immaterial, non-corporeal beings in post #8 do not possess physical limbs to twist Linda Blair's head around. They do however, work on a subtle, power of suggestive influence. The Bible repeatedly warns us to guard our thoughts at all times.

[Investorater]

David Wilkerson-"God's love is endless,and His commandments are not grievous.All He demands is that we love and seek Him with all our hearts,souls,minds,and bodies.That we never become lukewarm in that love.That we love our neighbors as ourselves.That we exalt righteousness and condemn immorality.That spiritual wickedness in high places be fought against.That Christ never be denied before mankind.That He be acknowledged in all our ways.That we confess and forsake our sins.

Foreshocks of Antichrist-Cyberspace:The Beast's Worldwide Spiderweb 1997-David Webber-The realm of the second death,the lake of fire(not in this solar system),will become the permanent exile of fallen angels,demon spirits,and unregenerate mankind.

[OTM Al]

I was going to wait til after Easter on this, but this rapture stuff is absolute nonsense. This interpretation began only about 100 years ago in response to the coming millenium. The Apocalypse of John was written most likely between 90 and 95. The author is an man named John, but likely not the same fellow who was an apostle and definitely not the same one who wrote the Gospel (that's a different story we can discuss if you'd like). The allegory in this work was of course directed toward Rome.

Rome of the time was under the sway of Domitian, a much reviled man during his times, deserved or not, quite unlike his father Vespasian and brother Titus, who had taken Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple. This last bit had occured around 70 and ended the Jewish uprising, see Flavius Josephus' account for an eye witness piece of history on this. During the 80s and 90s apocalyptic writing became very popular in Jewish circles, partially driven by loss of the Temple, which our early "christians" essentially still were, though they were beginning to move away. This sort of writing allowed the author to be critical of the government without saying that criticism outright, an act which would get you arrested and likely killed. It was a funny sort of thing because everyone knew you were being critical, but because you didn't outright say it, it was ok.

Let's then dive into the allegory shall we? This whole beast thing is about the Roman Emperors. This seven headed beast represents of course the 7 acknowledged emperors before Domitian: Augustus, Tiberius, Caius (Caligula), Claudius, and Nero of the Julio-Claudian line and then Vespasian and Titus of the Flavian line. Domitian would be the 3rd and last of this line. This of course does not include the 3 commanders who tried to seize the imperium during the year of the 4 emperors (Galba, Otho and Vitellius), 68-69, after Nero's death, as they all came from the west and never would have been acknowledged in the east as Vespasian had control of those provinces. This whole anti-christ, 8th head that is like one of the others is Domitian. It was a wide spread rumor at the time that Domitian was actually Nero reincarnated. Domitian also was highly criticized because he had taken the title "Lord and God" during his lifetime, rather than having it applied after his death, thus your whole anti-christ label.

So the Apocalypse of John was written to criticize this ruler and to tell the faithful to keep to their beliefs and hold out for soon they would be delivered. That bit of "prophesy" turned out to be quite true when Domitian was assassinated in 96 and replaced with Galba the first of the 5 "good" emperors which brought much prosperity to the empire. This was all it was. In fact there was long debate about whether it should be included as part of canon and it certainly was not unanimous when it was finally approved around 400. It is most definitely not this comic book hookey that fire and brimstone preachers created only about 100 years ago. I find that stuff completely revolting and having nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus, who we rightly celebrate this day.

So a Happy Easter to all of you and yours and I hope you enjoyed today's history lesson.

[Gibbon]

….beast thing is about the Roman Emperors Your hermeneutics are sound although me thinks you’ve seen the trees but missed the proverbial forest…

Any one, group, organization or nation may be a kind of anti_Christ as in against Christ. Prime example: Mohammed received a new revelation 550 years after the fact. Allegedly, the angel Gabriel appeared to an illiterate Mohammed while praying in a cave. Mohammed memorized the entire Qur’an and set out to decapitate Christians using an instrument specifically engineered for beheadings. Of course I mean the scimitar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scimitar).

A kind of anti_Christ: what passes for documentaries on the History channel or National Geographic giving important weight to the “gospel of fill in the blank.” Gospels long ago declared forgeries. A kind of anit_Christ: Vladimir Lenin boldly declaring religion is the opiate for the masses. His solution to religion? Decimating the Russian Orthodox Church.

…rapture stuff is absolute nonsense. John Nelson Darby gets most of the credit for Dispensational Theology and among the first to use rapture language; the seeds were planted in England and Ireland very early 1800’s

Fortunately early Christians had an abundance of foresight debated similar theological events surrounding the second coming of Christ. Orthodoxy had been established at the Council of Rome, Council of Arles and Council of Nicea. These counsels convened well before ancient Rome fell immediately giving rise to the “unHoly Roman Catholic Church.” A church consolidating its power by use of force violating many biblical commandments.

Early Christians recognized and understood the corrupt nature of humankind, proceeded to leave clear records for us to follow. Some modern Christians have distorted time honored methods of interpretations only to confuse issues long ago decided. Those would include but not limited to Mormons, the Jehovah Witness and yes, Darby and his merry band of dispensationalists.

Blaise Pascal said it best; Truth is so obscure and falsehood so established, that, unless we love the truth, we cannot know it.

[OTM Al]

If you wish to use "anti-Christ" in such a way I could not argue too much with you, but you must agree that such an interpretation is oft overshadowed by that of some supernatural evil being born of a jackel etc that is hearlding the end of the world....

Those gospels of which you speak are not forgeries in the sense of something written to deceive. You could add at least 3 of the 4 accepted gospels to that list if you mean forgery in the sense that they were not written by the person who they are ascribed to. Mark, the oldest of the 4 gospels, may have been written by Mark, but Matthew and Luke were very not likely written by them and John was definitely not wriiten by John. There is even a question if anything past Mark 16:8 is the original text (this is the point when they find the tomb empty). Some feel that the following text does not match what went before and was done by a different hand. Thus there is a debate if it simply ended with 16:8 or there was text that was replaced, which is more likely as ending with the language of 16:8 does not correspond to the way Greek texts of the time ended.

It was a common literary form of the time to write something in the style of an individual and ascribe it to that individual. There are existing works ascribed to Aristotle, for example, which certainly were not written by him. Many letters of Paul that were originally accepted, were later shown to be written by another in this style. One can imagine that there was probably a gospel written in the name of all of the apostles (including Judas which is known) as well as some of those close to Jesus (Mary M.). Different traditions developed in different cities and no one was using the same set of writings previous to the Councils you mention. Even after this codification some sects never went along with them. Coptics and Gnostic Christians being two of the most well know groups who retained their own traditions. Some of these writing that were not accepted were likely written closer to the fact than those that were. And there is much truth in these things and also great faith. Here is an appropriate for the day quote from the fragment of the Gospel of Peter:

13. And they went and found the tomb opened, and coming near they looked in and saw there a certain young man sitting in the midst of the tomb, beautiful and clothed in a robe exceeding bright. He said to them, Why have you come? Whom do you seek? Him that was crucified? He is risen and gone. But if you do not believe, look in and see the place where he lay, that he is not here; for he is risen and gone where he was sent. Then the women feared and fled.

Quite nice

[Cangamble]

OTM, I think you'll enjoy reading this page:

http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm

[OTM Al]

Not a bad summary, despite his anti-religious rant at the end. The writer omits the point that while there are historical inaccuracies in the Bible, there is also quite a bit of historical fact. He cannot understand faith in the message even if the telling is somewhat obscured with myth. There can be Truth even when the facts aren't quite right.

Oh and speaking of facts I messed one up above. The first of the "good" emperors was Nerva, not Galba, one in the year of 4 emperors. For some reason I always get those 2 reversed

[Cangamble]

Not a bad summary, despite his anti-religious rant at the end. The writer omits the point that while there are historical inaccuracies in the Bible, there is also quite a bit of historical fact. He cannot understand faith in the message even if the telling is somewhat obscured with myth. There can be Truth even when the facts aren't quite right.

Oh and speaking of facts I messed one up above. The first of the "good" emperors was Nerva, not Galba, one in the year of 4 emperors. For some reason I always get those 2 reversed
I think he was trying to point out historical innacuracies.

[OTM Al]

Yes, but he is as much as saying that you are foolish if you believe this stuff because of all the inaccuracies which he (rightly) had pointed out. To me that is a very ignorant stance. It reminds me of the fact that in data analysis biased data can still be good and usable data as long as you know how to account for the bias. I feel he misses this idea.

[Investorater]

From:Your Adversary The Devil by J.Dwight Pentecost 1969

Where did Satan come from? Did God create the Devil? Is God responsible for evil? Such questions plague the individual who wrestles with the existence of our adversary in the light of the Bible's revelation of the holiness of God.Philosophy can never give a satisfactory answer to these questions.The only satisfying answer is God's answer found in His Word.

1 The Fall of Satan-Ezekiel 28:11-27
2 The Sin of Satan-Isaiah 14:12-17
3 The Hierarchy of Satan-Ephesians 2:2-6:12
In this materialistic world in which we evaluate something by its weight,size,and shape,we give little place to angelic beings or the angelic creation.But the word of God tells us that when God began His work of creation,that work commenced not in the physical realm but in the angelic realm.Vast numbers of angels were created by the word of God.The Apostle Paul tells us in Colossians 1:16,"By Christ were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth,visible and invisible,whether they be thrones or dominions,or principalities or powers,all things were created by Him and for Him."Speaking of the work of creation,the Apostle divides creation into two distinct spheres.There is the sphere of heaven in which invisible beings exist,and there is the realm of the earth in which visible beings exist.The one sphere is no less real because it is invisible.And the Apostle gathers together the total creative work of the Son and teaches us that the Son is the Creator of the physical earth and those who dwell upon it.Angels then are created beings,created by the authority of God through the power of the Son.

When Lucifer rebelled against God and desired to usurp God's throne,before he could move God from His throne and rule as sovereign in this universe,it was necessary for him to bring angelic creation under his authority and control.In Revelation 12:4,we get a clue to the extent of Satan's original rebellion against God.For after telling us,in the third verse,that John beheld a wonder in heaven,the great red dragon,who is explained to us in verse 9 as Satan,we read in verse four:"his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven."The stars there seem to refer to the angelic beings,and this seems to suggest to us that at the time Satan rebelled against God,Satan started on a campaign to persuade the angels to rebel against God and to follow him.And he was 33 and one-third% successful.For the angels who were created with the capacity of volition,who had the ability to make a choice,were confronted with a choice.They must either remain where they were placed by the Creator,or they must follow Satan with his promise that he would elevate them above what they were by God's creation.Lucifer purposed not only to elevate himself but also to elevate those who would follow him in order that they might rule with him over thrones and principalities and dominions and powers which he expected to subject to himself.And when Lucifer rebelled against God,he led away after him a third of the angelic creation,those who believed that Lucifer could serve the universe better than the Lord of hosts.

Satan's conquest of the Earth-Genesis 3:1-7
Doubt and skepticism have to begin in the mind.When a man begins to approach the Word of God with his own natural mind,he has opened the doorway to repudiation of the whole of divine revelation,for he substitutes human reasoning for divine revelation.The Apostle points out to us in the first chapter of Romans that the world does not know God.And the wisdom of God is foreign to the wise men of this world.I Corinthians 1:18-25
If one today trusts natural wisdom,natural reasoning,natural philosophy,he will never come to an understanding of the things of God,because man by philosophy does not know God.One will not come to know Him until he sets aside his own wisdom and accepts God's revelation.Until one by an act of faith trusts that which is revealed in the word of God,no matter how many degrees he may write after his name,he will remain in ignorance concerning the things of God.

5 Satan the Deceiver-I Timothy 4:1-8
6 Satan the Perverter-Isaiah 5:8-23
7 Satan the Imitator-II Corinthians 11:1-15
8 Satan the Lawless One-II Thessalonians 2:1-12
9 Satan the Rebel-Job 1:13-22
10 Pursued by a Roaring Lion-I Peter 5:1-11
11 The Doctrine of Satan-II Peter 1:16-2:2
12 Satan's Response to the Preaching of the Word-Matthew 13:1-9
13 How Satan Tempts-Matthew 4:1-11
14 Satan's Steps in Temptation-I John 2:7-17
15 How Satan Operates-Matthew 17:14-21
16 Christ's Conquest of Satan-Colossians 2:9-17
17 The Believers Authority Over Satan-Ephesians 6:10-17
18 Putting the Adversary to Flight-James 4:1-8
19 Trafficking with Demons-Deuteronomy 18:9-11
20 Satan's Destiny-Revelation 20:1-10

Our Lord taught and warned that there are those who may join Satan in that place prepared for him and his angels. Matthew 25:41 This earth was created to be a habitation for man.The lake of fire was created to be a habitation for Satan and his angels who had already rebelled against God before man was created.When Adam rebelled,his destiny was changed,he no longer had a right to the presence of God but joined with Satan and shared Satan's destiny,the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels.God in infinite grace provided a sacrifice for Adam,and God through Jesus Christ has provided a sacrifice for all of Adam's sons who,because of Adam's sin are destined for the Lake of Fire to be separated from God for ever and ever.Through the death of Christ Jesus,He has provided for forgiveness of sins,He has provided a new home(the Father's home),He has provided a new destiny(the Father's presence),and He has provided the light of the Father's countenance to be our light rather than the light of the eternal lake of fire.The Lake of Fire was not prepared for any human being.It becomes their destiny because men join Satan in his rebellion.The lake of fire need not be your destiny,for Christ came to bring you to God by offering Himself as a sacrifice for the sin of the world.No salvation was provided for angels,for those who sinned with satan were destined for the Lake of Fire with no hope or promise of salvation whatsoever.But God in grace has offered salvation to you.But the decision is yours:Heaven or the Lake of Fire? Christ Jesus or Satan?
The Apostle Paul,describing the glory that belongs to Christ,reminds us that when He became obedient unto death,even the death of the cross, "God also hath highly exalted him,and given him a name which is above every name:that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,of things in heaven,and things in earth,and things under the earth,and that every tongue should confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD,to the glory of GOD the FATHER."(Philippians 2:9-11).And in the unending ages of eternity no tongue will be lifted against the absolute authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.All heaven will confess Him as glorified Lord and Saviour.The unfallen angels will adore and serve Him.Even those banished from His presence will confess that the king whom they loved and served was an imposter and deceiver,and that Christ was the rightful Lord.
No one will rebel against His will,for all in heaven will recognize His authority and bow in obedience to Him.No other lord will invite submission,for Christ Jesus will rule as Lord forever.To Him be glory and honor,dominion and majesty,love and praise forever.


I

5

[Gibbon]

...despite his anti-religious rant ... historical inaccuracies in the Bible You certainly may choose to believe modern secular agenda driven scholarship to assert the synoptic gospels were written other than the authors whose name is inscribed. But know there are objective scholars who do in fact maintain the authors are indeed who they say. This is a modern debate for ancient historians’ corroborated authenticity of Bible writers.

For an exhaustive look at facts based on historical textual manuscript evidence not fabrications: http://www.everystudent.com/features/bible.html

[OTM Al]

This is biased toward all being accurate. I need go no further that the ref on page 1 to Josephus. The ref toward Jesus in his work is about 99% certain to have been inserted by another author at a later date. This is because this ref is in only one of the known manuscripts and is entirely omitted of the others. Also there is a John the Baptist ref that is also there (This text is known as the Slavonic text) which is not in the others either.

I will say again though that while there are definitely historical inaccuracies in the Bible (the census at the time of Jesus' birth for example) that does not make the work as a whole false nor does it in any way diminish the message. I will just as quickly dismiss a "secular" academic that would state this of proof that there was no Jesus as I do someone who tries to tell me everything there is absolutely true.

[Investorater]

Explaining The Rapture:Now what happens when a Christian dies? Well,a medical doctor can pronounce him dead-evidence of physical life-is gone.But theologically a Christian dies when the soul leaves the body and goes immediately to heaven.That's what we believe.Second Corinthians 5:8 tells us that to be absent in the body,is to be present with the Lord.It's an instant transfer from earth to heaven.We can bury the body,but the soul is in heaven.Now when the rapture occurs,I Thessalonians 4 tells us that Christ is going to bring the souls of those who have died from heaven to the earth.And the purpose is stated in the verses which follow.He's going to resurrect the body,and the soul is going to re-enter that body permanently in the resurrection.That is what is meant by "He brings their souls back."

In the verses that follow,Paul describes a process that is not difficult to understand,even though it's supernatural.He says in verse 15,"According to the Lord's own word."Paul couldn't have gotten this from the Old Testament because it isn't there.There is resurrection there,but not rapture.But Paul had been taught this,and now he says,according to the Lord's instruction to him,that it is going to happen and that we,(that is Christians)who are still alive,and who are left till the coming of the Lord will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep"for the Lord himself will come down from heaven,with a loud command,with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet call of God,and the dead in Christ will rise first.After that,we who are still alive and are left will be caught up,"that's where you get the word rapture-caught up,or snatched up,or raptured together-"with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.And so will we be with the Lord forever.Therefore,encourage each other with these words"(I Thess.4:16-18).

Now their question was:Would they have to wait to see their loved ones who had died?The answer is no,those who are dead in Christ,those Christians who have died,will be resurrected just a moment before.Living Christians are instantly changed as predicted in I Corinthians 15:51-53.In a moment,in the twinkling of an eye,at the last trump,we're going to be changed.And together we are going up to heaven.

Suppose it happened tonight?It could,you know.People say,"When do you think the Lord's coming?Could be tonight.We're not told when.But notice what's going to happen.The scripture says the Lord will come down from heaven with a loud command.He's going to leave His throne in heaven and bodily come back to the earth.Now in His deity,He's everywhere present.But in His body He is in only one place at a time.He's going to come down into the air above the earth,and He's going to give a loud command,a shout.When that happens,all over the world,Christians will be instantly resurrected,and living Christians will be instantly changed into bodies that are suited for heaven.

Now you look pretty good to me,but there are certain things wrong about you and I don't have to have a theological exam to find out.What's wrong?Well,first of all we were born sinners,and we have a sin nature.Even after we're saved we still have it,and we can't go to heaven that way.We have to have a body that doesn't have a sin nature.These bodies of ours grow older,I can testify to that,and we can't have a body that gets older all the time in heaven.Also,our bodies are subject to death.It's amazing that we live at all when you consider all the hundreds of things that could cause instant death for our bodies.And we are mortal.So instantly we need a new body that's holy,without sin,that could be in the presence of the Lord,and rejoice in Him throughout eternity to come.

You notice this all happens when Christ commands it.The Scriptures record that not many days before Christ died,Lazarus died.You remember he was the brother of Mary and Martha,and they were very much.Christ and the disciples often stayed in their home,which was on the eastern slope of the Mount of Olives.Christ was gone,Lazarus got sick,and they said,"Oh,if He was here,He could have healed Lazarus."They had seen Him heal so many.But He wasn't there.Lazarus died,and they had the funeral and placed him in the tomb.

When Christ came,He found them weeping because of their loss,and Christ shed tears too.Then He went out to the tomb,as you'll remember,and commanded them to take the stone away.Though they demurred,they finally did.And then He said,"Lazarus,come forth."What happened? Lazarus came forth.As one commentary puts it,"If He'd left off the word Lazarus and said come forth,why everybody in that area that was dead would have risen.

You see,the rapture's also going to be a selective resurrection.Not everybody's going to be raised at that time.Ultimately,everybody is raised,but not on the day of the rapture.And so when He gives the command,the rapture's going to occur.It's going to be accompanied by the voice of the archangel.The archangel is the head of all the holy angels,and he's been in the ceaseless warfare with Satan and the demon world.Satan has tried to hinder the Gospel,hinder Christians,and spoil their lives and testimony,and to some extent he's been successful.But now in spite of all that he has done,here is the church triumphant.We have victory on our side.And when that voice of the archangel sounds,Satan recognizes that victory.

And then there's the trumpet call of God.There are many trumphets in the Bible,but don't try to put them together.There are seven trumpets in Revelation,there's a feast of trumphets.It is a signaling device that is used for various things much like we have a system of bells.This trumpet,according to I Corinthians 15,is going to be the last trumpet for the church.It's not the last trump of time.When that sounds,all over the world,we'll meet the Lord in the air,and then as He promised the disciples in John 14,He's going to take us to the Father's house.The rapture is a movement from earth to heaven.Unfortunately,just as there was confusion about the first and Second Coming in the Old Testament,there's some confusion today about the rapture and the Second Coming.But the two events are entirely different,and that's the way the New Testament presents them.The rapture is a move from earth to heaven,the Second Coming is a move from heaven to earth,when Christ is accompanied by all the holy angels and the saints.(The Church)He's going to set up His thousand year millennial kingdom on earth,when He will reign out of Jerusalem over the entire world.At the end of that time,of course the present earth and heaven will be destroyed,and the new heaven and new earth will be created,and in the new Jerusalem in the new earth,the saints of all ages will spend eternity.That's our ultimate home,in the new Jerusalem in the new earth.And that's what's going to happen.

As soon as we meet Christ in the air,we're going to be with Him forever,like a marriage.That's the way it's described in the Bible.We're going to be with Him, and we'll be with the Lord forever.The rapture is the next event as far as prophecy's concerned.What an encouragement that is,what a comfort in time of sorrow for our fellow Christians who will depart,to realize that our separation may be short,and that any day Christ may come and we'll be brought together forever in the future. John F. Walvoord-The Road to Armageddon-1999.......I THESSALONIANS 4:16,17

[Investorater]

The Rapture marks the end of the Church Age.Those believers in Christ,both Jews and Gentiles had the power to meet the Lord in the air because the Spirit of God dwelt in them for they were born again-through faith in Christ's blood.The rapture allows time in heaven for Christ to deal with his own as Scripture says He will. 2 Corinthians 5:10.When His Holy Spirit influence is removed,the world will be ready for the antichrist and the tribulation.It must be remembered that the tribulation is especially related to Israel.Of this time Jesus said,Matthew 24:21. He was referring to the seven-year period of the tribulation or the time of Jacob's trouble Jeremiah 30:7,Daniel 12:1,Luke 23:28.The book of revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.Chapters 6,8,9,15,and 16 describe the Time of Jacob's Trouble under the headings of Seven Seals,Seven Trumpets,and,Seven Vials.This is the panorama of human pain that will be experienced by the people of earth during those Seven Years.Simply put if after the Rapture you find yourself still on earth including me,then we will have been left behind.But there is still hope.Revelation 7:4-17.These 144,000 converted Jewish evangelists will reap converts from all nations,even though conversion will mean martydom for many.Revelation 19:20,21 Rev. 20:4.

From Global Peace and the Rise of Antichrist by Dave Hunt 1990

To suggest that World War III will usher in the great tribulation conflicts with Paul's statement that the day of the Lord will begin suddenly,when the world thinks it has at last achieved peace and safety.No,preparing the world to embrace the Antichrist will require something truly extraordinary.Let us consider what that could be.

Whatever it is that effects this transformation,it must impact simultaneously the entire human race,not merely a particular country or region.The antichrist will control the whole earth.Revelation 13:7,8. What could possibly bring humankind-Muslims,Jews,Hindus,and Chinese-to this point?

The ideal event for effecting such a dramatic alchemy-and doing it swiftly in one stroke-is the rapture.In fact,the Rapture is the only conceivable event that could cause the entire world to unite in a new world government and a new world religion and to submit suddenly to the leadership of the Antichrist as the world dictator.

Driverless cars and pilotless aircraft alone would account not only for worldwide devastation but for inconceivable panic.Interrupted surgeries,empty lecterns,unmanned rescue vehicles,decimated communications systems,the disruption of goods and services-life as we know it would descend into an abyss of chaos and human carnage,The shock,bewilderment,and stark horror of this historic global event would paralyze the world.Any explanation would initially be completely beyond the comprehension and even the imagination of the most brilliant minds.

Governing bodies,from local school boards to universities and the corporate giants of business and industry,from city councils to state and national congresses,from senates and parliaments to the President's cabinet,the Pentagon,and the Kremlin would be meeting in emergency sessions-with missing members in many cases.The United Nations would be at a loss to explain what had happened or to plan a course of action to prevent a recurrence.

It would take months to restore order out of the incalculable chaos.The credit card,banking,and insurance confusion would be almost impossible to untangle.In many cases large segments of business and industry would be paralyzed by the disappearance of the operators of sophisticated computers and key pieces of equipment.Engineers and scientists with specialized skills would be missing,with no one to unravel the puzzles left behind.

The disruption on a global scale would be beyond calculation.Hardest hit would be the United States.If there are only a quarter of the born-again Christians that polls indicate,the rapture would decimate this country,a possible reason why the U.S. is not mentioned in prophecy.Professing Christians hold key positions everywhere.Their disappearance would cause the U.S.to teeter on the brink of collapse,to be possibly taken under the wing of Western Europe,where the Church is largely dead and a far smaller segment of society would be missing.

The rapture is clearly the only conceivable event that could create the worldwide panic and stark terror,the utter hopelessness and desperation that could cause humankind to welcome a world dictator.In fact that would seem to be the logical outcome.

At first there would be no rational,scientific explanation.Then out of the chaos the Antichrist will arise,a man with all of the power of Satan,who will perform signs and wonders,present a "scientific" and assuring explanation for what happened,and offer a sensible and hopeful course of action.One can only speculate as to what convincing hypothesis the Antichrist will provide to account for the mass disappearance.

God intends to demonstrate fully the truth of the gospel:that there is no hope for humankind except through the salvation that is freely offered to all in Christ Jesus.To prove this fact,Satan and his earthly followers must be given the fullest opportunity to turn the world into a paradise if they can."The god of this world"must rule the world for a time through Antichrist-and the removal of all genuine Christians is essential to that purpose.

The mass disappearance of millions of people will have frightened the world into the arms of the universal "christ" of the new world religion,who will calm their fears and bring order out of chaos.This new faith will not appear to be without reason,for the Antichrist will seemingly prove that he is the Christ by bringing global peace.Reassured,pacified,and fiercely loyal,the world will enthusiastically welcome its "Savior." Excerpt from chapter 16 A Tale of Two Comings

Excerpt,from I Predict,1963, G.H.Montgomery
Recommended reading-Israel's Final Holocaust-Jack Van Impe with Roger F. Campbell-1979.

Even the Old Testament,in its veiled way,teaches two comings of the Lord. Isaiah 61,which outlines the practical ministry of Jesus the Messiah,prophesies both the first and second advents.You may remember that on the day when Jesus preached His memorable sermon in the synagogue of Nazareth,the president of the synagogue gave Him the Scriptures to read.As God would direct it on that particular day,the Scripture was that portion which we now know as Isaiah 61.Jesus read all of the first verse,then suddenly stopped right in the middle of a sentence,closed the book and sat down.Why did He do this?Why did He not complete the prophecy,or at least complete the sentence which He was reading? Here is why. Jesus read these words:

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me;because the Lord hath annointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;He has sent me to bind up the broken hearted,to proclaim liberty to the captives,and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,"AND THERE HE STOPPED. Why? Because the remainder of that sentence adds "AND THE DAY OF VENGEANCE OF OUR GOD." Jesus had not come to proclaim the day of vengeance of our God.He had come to fulfill the first part of the prophecy.If He had completed the sentence in Isaiah 61:2,He could not have said as He did say, "THIS DAY IS THIS SCRIPTURE FULFILLED IN YOUR EARS." Luke 4:16-21

[Overlay]

Now what happens when a Christian dies?

A thought-provoking reference combining science with Scripture that I would recommend to anyone who is interested in this question is Arthur C. Custance's Journey Out of Time, which can be read or printed off the Web at the following link:

http://www.custance.org/Library/Journey/index.html

[Investorater]

Thanks,Overlay,for keeping this message out there a while longer.

(Genesis 1:1)

(Isaiah 14:12-16)

(John 5:24)

(Matthew 24:35-44)

(Matthew 16:18)

(Acts 20:21)

(1 Timothy 3:16)

(1 Timothy 4:1)

(1 Thessalonians 5:3,4,9)

(2 Thessalonians 2:8,9,10)

(2 Corinthians 4:4)

(Revelation 12:11)

(2 Thessalonians 1:7,8)

(Revelation 19:11-21)

(2 Peter 3:13)

(1 Corinthians 2:9)

[hcap]

A longer list. By no means complete. At least as valid

1. THE QUANTUM
Max Planck (1900)

2. HORMONES
William Bayliss and Ernest Starling (1902)

3. THE PARTICLE NATURE OF LIGHT
Albert Einstein (1905)

4. SPECIAL RELATIVITY
Albert Einstein (1905)

5. THE NUCLEUS OF THE ATOM
Ernest Rutherford (1911)

6. THE SIZE OF THE COSMOS
Henrietta Leavitt (1912)

7. THE ARRANGEMENT OF ATOMS IN SOLID MATTER
W. Friedrich, P. Knipping, and M. von Laue (1912)

8. THE QUANTUM ATOM
Niels Bohr (1913)

9. THE MEANS OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN NERVES
Otto Loewi (1921)

10. THE UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE
Werner Heisenberg (1927)

11. THE CHEMICAL BOND
Linus Pauling (1928)

12. THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE
Edwin Hubble (1929)

13. ANTIBIOTICS
Alexander Fleming (1929)

14. THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION OF ENERGY IN LIVING ORGANISMS
Hans Krebs and W. A. Johnson (1937)

15. NUCLEAR FISSION
Otto Hahn and Fritz Strassmann (1939); and Lise Meitner and Otto Frisch (1939)

16. THE MOVABILITY OF GENES
Barbara McClintock (1948)

17. THE STRUCTURE OF DNA
James D. Watson and Francis H. C. Crick (1953); and Rosalind E. Franklin and R. G. Gosling (1953)

18. THE STRUCTURE OF PROTEINS
Max F. Perutz, M. G. Rossmann, Ann F. Cullis, Hilary Muirhead, Georg Will, and A. C. T. North (1960)

19. RADIO WAVES FROM THE BIG BANG
Arno A. Penzias and Robert W. Wilson (1965); and Robert H. Dicke, P. James E. Peebles, Peter G. Roll, and David T. Wilkinson (1965)

20. A UNIFIED THEORY OF FORCES
Steven Weinberg (1967)

21. QUARKS
M. Breidenbach, J. I. Friedman, H. W. Kendall, E. D. Bloom, D. H. Coward, H. DeStaebler, J. Drees, L. W. Mo, and R. E. Taylor (1969)

22. THE CREATION OF ALTERED FORMS OF LIFE
David A. Jackson, Robert H. Symons, and Paul Berg (1972)

[Investorater]

If you choose to make literature or science your God,I have no dispute with that.Are you always this insecure?-Often threatened by newer PaceAdvantage members.:D Or simply an atheist.......ENOUGH SAID!!!

[hcap]

I have the utmost respect for all religions. Not however the literal interpretation of scripture. Whether that be of the Quran, Old Testament or New Testament. You are trying to fit great truths into little boxes. Worse, you are taking the symbolism of the book of revelations and hooking it up with contemporary fears and distortions of history.

Fundamentalists suffer from self hypnosis. They are entitled to their beliefs. So are those that fear black cats. There is no justifiable reason for the scientific method, truths and discoveries which contradict your literal and lizard brain interpretations of the universe to be excluded and ignored in these type of discussions.

My list of some scientific discoveries is just as valid your assumptions.
If not more.

[wonatthewire1]

If you choose to make literature or science your God,I have no dispute with that.Are you always this insecure?-Often threatened by newer PaceAdvantage members.:D Or simply an atheist.......ENOUGH SAID!!!


"always this insecure" - after seeing you post verbatim passages; get a mirror or start a church

"threatened by new PaceAdvantage members - :sleeping:

"or simply an atheist" - you are then contradicting your first sentence as you didn't have a dispute to start and 10 seconds later comes the label :ThmbDown:

Did not Jesus despise gambling? So what would be your reasoning for being on the horse racing website?
:confused:

[hcap]

If you choose to make literature or science your God,I have no dispute with that.Are you always this insecure?-Often threatened by newer PaceAdvantage members.:D Or simply an atheist.......ENOUGH SAID!!!
Hey Investorater, have you seen this? Don't plan on getting too involved in much on May 10.

World population will be 6,666,666,666 on May 10...

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html

[jballscalls]

interesting thread, thanks all for posting.