The Tampa Derby Video

[BeatTheChalk]

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2008/videos/759

[Bruddah]

Nothing wrong with War Pass in that race except, he couldn't/ wouldn't run fast enough to get to the front. He was pinched a little (very little) at the start, but what the h*ll do you think could happen in a 20 horse Ky Derby field? He just didn't seemed to be conditioned enough, for this race. (JMHO) :ThmbUp:

[jonnielu]

Nothing wrong with War Pass in that race except, he couldn't/ wouldn't run fast enough to get to the front. He was pinched a little (very little) at the start, but what the h*ll do you think could happen in a 20 horse Ky Derby field? He just didn't seemed to be conditioned enough, for this race. (JMHO) :ThmbUp:

Second that, if he wanted or could get the lead, it was right there for him. The more you watch the race, the more it looks like he ran his mile. I see two struggling attempts to get the lead, and then the horse folds up like a 50 cent lawn chair at the top of the stretch.

jdl

[Bobzilla]

I agree with the above assessments. It looked to me like there was no serious effort on the part of Cornelio to win the front after being pinched. The opportunity to school the horse in rating was presented by the poor break. CV took WP to the outside to avoid trouble. But when the real running began entering the far turn WP appeared to be working too hard just to keep up with those to his inside. Many horses don't take to the Tampa Bay surface, maybe that was part of it. I believe every time a young race horse participates in a race and is confronted with that race's own unique dynamics, that horse becomes more of a race horse by the experience. WP has already demonstrated beyond a doubt he has superb athletic talent. He, as well as most his contemporaries, sorely lack seasonong. A sign of the times. When a young horse faces adversity for the first time, or is confronted with a totally different race dynamic, they often do fail to fire as thay did before when they were afforded their own unique comfort zone. Some have that extra intangible of class to overcome the adversity. It does get tiring hearing the connections and pundits declaring greatness while the schooling process of a talented race horse is still in progress. With the way horses are handled these days, we may never see true greatness again. The animals are denied the various race experiences required to become great.

[Shenanigans]

He started moving on the far turn and then midway in the turn he switched to his right (wrong) lead. Horses hardly ever run on their right lead in left hand turns unless something is wrong. He was traveling terrible coming out of the turn. Stevie Wonder could see that.

[slewis]

I have a DVD of the race provided by management at Tampa Bay downs.

This DVD has 3 angles of the race... the pan, the head on, and a rear-view shot that the stewards watch, but public never see's unless there is an inquiry.

Everyone is beating a dead horse here... no pun intended. I can promise you that the "pinch" had LITTLE bearing on his chances to get a lead.
Had he been the War Pass we saw previously, he would have zipped to the top. After the pinch, there was a large enough gap for him to quickly move through, but he just didn't have any punch.

Everyone who cares should CAREFULLY watch his last race at GP.

I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY HE PULLED UP AFTER THAT RACE.
HE'S VERY CHOPPY UP FRONT..ALMOST AS IF HE CAN'T WAIT TO TAKE WEIGHT OFF EACH LEG.
Maybe this is why Zito chose TB. Tampa Bay has probably the SAFEST surface maybe in the country. It's probably why Street Sense (who I felt was'nt the soundest) raced last year. The surface is VERY SANDY, like a beach if you look at the color. And the turns are well banked.
I thought there was a small problem, but horses run with problems.
This was the main reason I told the owner of Big Truck that I'd rather try and beat War Pass in Tampa, then to take on 4 or 5 other really talented horses in the FLA derby, (even though 3rd place money in FLA Derby might get a horse to Louisville.
I can tell this to everyone because Barclay Tagg was quoted in the paper, he told Coa to "ride for 2nd money" because War Pass looked THAT good physically.
I was standing 3 or 4 feet from them. It's a good thing it wasn't closer because I wanted to STRANGLE Barclay for telling Eibar that.
Most on this forum know that trainers often are bewildered trying to figure horses out, and Zito may have had a gut feeling about War Pass or maybe he's bewildered too. Either way, in War Pass's case, my personal opinion is that the Derby was quite a stretch distance-wise for a horse like that, and for the geniuses on this forum that compared him to Seattle Slew........keep betting alot and often, the sport needs stupid money.

[jonnielu]

I have a DVD of the race provided by management at Tampa Bay downs.

This DVD has 3 angles of the race... the pan, the head on, and a rear-view shot that the stewards watch, but public never see's unless there is an inquiry.

Everyone is beating a dead horse here... no pun intended. I can promise you that the "pinch" had LITTLE bearing on his chances to get a lead.
Had he been the War Pass we saw previously, he would have zipped to the top. After the pinch, there was a large enough gap for him to quickly move through, but he just didn't have any punch.

Everyone who cares should CAREFULLY watch his last race at GP.

I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY HE PULLED UP AFTER THAT RACE.
HE'S VERY CHOPPY UP FRONT..ALMOST AS IF HE CAN'T WAIT TO TAKE WEIGHT OFF EACH LEG.
Maybe this is why Zito chose TB. Tampa Bay has probably the SAFEST surface maybe in the country. It's probably why Street Sense (who I felt was'nt the soundest) raced last year. The surface is VERY SANDY, like a beach if you look at the color. And the turns are well banked.
I thought there was a small problem, but horses run with problems.
This was the main reason I told the owner of Big Truck that I'd rather try and beat War Pass in Tampa, then to take on 4 or 5 other really talented horses in the FLA derby, (even though 3rd place money in FLA Derby might get a horse to Louisville.
I can tell this to everyone because Barclay Tagg was quoted in the paper, he told Coa to "ride for 2nd money" because War Pass looked THAT good physically.
I was standing 3 or 4 feet from them. It's a good thing it wasn't closer because I wanted to STRANGLE Barclay for telling Eibar that.
Most on this forum know that trainers often are bewildered trying to figure horses out, and Zito may have had a gut feeling about War Pass or maybe he's bewildered too. Either way, in War Pass's case, my personal opinion is that the Derby was quite a stretch distance-wise for a horse like that, and for the geniuses on this forum that compared him to Seattle Slew........keep betting alot and often, the sport needs stupid money.

Can I look you up at Keeneland for a handshake?

[Shenanigans]

I have a DVD of the race provided by management at Tampa Bay downs.

This DVD has 3 angles of the race... the pan, the head on, and a rear-view shot that the stewards watch, but public never see's unless there is an inquiry.

Everyone is beating a dead horse here... no pun intended. I can promise you that the "pinch" had LITTLE bearing on his chances to get a lead.
Had he been the War Pass we saw previously, he would have zipped to the top. After the pinch, there was a large enough gap for him to quickly move through, but he just didn't have any punch.

Everyone who cares should CAREFULLY watch his last race at GP.

I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY HE PULLED UP AFTER THAT RACE.
HE'S VERY CHOPPY UP FRONT..ALMOST AS IF HE CAN'T WAIT TO TAKE WEIGHT OFF EACH LEG.
Maybe this is why Zito chose TB. Tampa Bay has probably the SAFEST surface maybe in the country. It's probably why Street Sense (who I felt was'nt the soundest) raced last year. The surface is VERY SANDY, like a beach if you look at the color. And the turns are well banked.
I thought there was a small problem, but horses run with problems.
This was the main reason I told the owner of Big Truck that I'd rather try and beat War Pass in Tampa, then to take on 4 or 5 other really talented horses in the FLA derby, (even though 3rd place money in FLA Derby might get a horse to Louisville.
I can tell this to everyone because Barclay Tagg was quoted in the paper, he told Coa to "ride for 2nd money" because War Pass looked THAT good physically.
I was standing 3 or 4 feet from them. It's a good thing it wasn't closer because I wanted to STRANGLE Barclay for telling Eibar that.
Most on this forum know that trainers often are bewildered trying to figure horses out, and Zito may have had a gut feeling about War Pass or maybe he's bewildered too. Either way, in War Pass's case, my personal opinion is that the Derby was quite a stretch distance-wise for a horse like that, and for the geniuses on this forum that compared him to Seattle Slew........keep betting alot and often, the sport needs stupid money.

Like I said, I didn't like the way he looked in the turn.
With your DVD, can you verify exactly where in the turn did he switch to his wrong lead? It looked almost middle of the turn.

[slewis]

Like I said, I didn't like the way he looked in the turn.
With your DVD, can you verify exactly where in the turn did he switch to his wrong lead? It looked almost middle of the turn.

Horses that are hurting will often switch leads back and forth to take pressure off but that generally happens in the stretch late in the race.
I'll have a few more looks at the 3rd angle and try to pick up on something.
At this point I'm leaning more towards he not liking the surface, rather then anything else... but that DOES NOT mean he's perfectly sound, remember, horses race with problems and you NEVER want to let your competition know what they might be. I read some posts comparing the NFL injury reports. Do you think all important injuries in the NFL get reported to the public???????
As far as suggestions regarding a "stiff job", this ain't no 10K claimer we're chattin' bout here, so all who wonder, dream of peace in the mid-east instead, or something else as silly... MANY HORSES DONT RACE 150% FIT AND PERFECTLY SOUND.. but they're entered and saddled and when the gate opens, they do what we bred them to do...run.
They are very powerful animals and with the adreneline flow, they often run through the pain (how often do we see the horror of a leg snap and the horse will keep running till it trips)
These are things that also need to be considered here.