War Pass.......Stick a fork in him

[Tom]

Dead last.
Cancel tickets to Churchill.

Was he injured????
Whatever, he's gotta be out of it now.

[PaceAdvantage]

It sucks to take a stand against War Pass and not even cash....not even a measly show bet....I'm kicking myself big time....

[Oddzilla]

Pinched back and then disappeared faster than new Coke.

$914 super. can't believe Dynamic Wayne paid $76.40 to show.

[OTM Al]

Wow, land of the knee jerk opinion....We'll see how he is as he got hit pretty hard. He was last because C. Velasquez shut him down at the top of the lane. He wasn't right today for sure but given the way the others have run so far I think its way too early to eulogize him.

[ny0707ny]

I didn't see the race. Just heard it. Let's see if he checks out ok. Going by his past records, this is not a normal race.

Reminds me of Daaher's races. They said nothing is wrong with him then he is retired unable to race anymore.

Let's hope for the best or this years Derby will be pretty bad.

[Tom]

This was bad field - he stunk.:ThmbDown:
He showed no heart.
Horses have gone to thier knees and come back to win triple crown races.
This one has no heart. He is fast early if............bleckkkkkk.

[jonnielu]

This was bad field - he stunk.:ThmbDown:
He showed no heart.
Horses have gone to thier knees and come back to win triple crown races.
This one has no heart. He is fast early if............bleckkkkkk.

Well now, it's shaping up to look like it could be a competitive derby, doubtful the go fast horse would turn out to be a serious contender anyway. Big truck makes 3 now with running styles suitable for 1 and 1/4.

jdl

[jonnielu]

I didn't see the race. Just heard it. Let's see if he checks out ok. Going by his past records, this is not a normal race.

Reminds me of Daaher's races. They said nothing is wrong with him then he is retired unable to race anymore.

Let's hope for the best or this years Derby will be pretty bad.

It will be another Derby, it's all about the 1-1/4, personally, I like the fact that that usually makes for a horse race.

jdl

[Oddzilla]

Atoned put some pressure on him on the outside when WP was three wide from behind the other two front-runners. WP struggled a little to no avail, it's understandable Cornelio brought him into the lane uncontentious. He doesn't need the graded earnings though, right?

If he was closer I would think it was a good beat for him, especially after the Allowance race he came back in, which couldn't have done anything to improve him.

[JustRalph]

Atoned put some pressure on him on the outside when WP was three wide from behind the other two front-runners. WP struggled a little to no avail, it's understandable Cornelio brought him into the lane uncontentious. He doesn't need the graded earnings though, right?

If he was closer I would think it was a good beat for him, especially after the Allowance race he came back in, which couldn't have done anything to improve him.


great nick! :ThmbUp:

[Oddzilla]

Bloodhorse has the report, Zito's saying "I don't know what happened".

Bloodhorse Tampa Bay Derby 2008 report (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=44103)

[Shenanigans]

My bet the horse will not come out of this race "OK". He was on the wrong lead in the turn for home - he looked awful. I don't think we'll see this one in the Derby.:(

[Robert Fischer]

Very frustrating when the top horse on your "vulture list" loses before he is supposed to.
I had been holding on to the hope that he would squeek by in the Wood and go in the Derby taking co-favorite type of money.

[njcurveball]

Dead last.
Cancel tickets to Churchill.

Was he injured????


I would hope the first thing back they are scoping for sponges!

[Vinnie]

WOW!! Today watching WP really reminded me of how tenuous an event horse racing really can be sometimes. If you threw him in to be due for a dull effort, I (and many others I am sure) were all over that race with the #6 Big Truck winning. Honestly, several things that I used had Big Truck on Top in the race. It is just after watching the way that he normally travels over the track (WP), I guess that one would never expect him to get out, jostled and knocked around a bit and have problems on the first turn, etc.. Not with such a quick turn of foot that he has displayed in his past races thus far. Many aspects of the race change when a horse that always has the lead finds himself in an uncomfortable position. I still believe that we will see him on Derby Day, but, how will he react being such a young horse as he is when he comes out of the Gates on that day? It will be very interesting to see how things transpire. ;)

[Mag]

So Zito screws up another one. Ya surprised?

[Hank]

To Bad about War pass,All this He had a lil fever and He did not like the track bla bla bla is pure bulls$$t.I HOPE I'm wrong but I saw a faint hearted speed encounter a little trouble and lose Heart.Again I hope he proves me wrong becasue there is nothing I love more in this game than a hickory speed.I guess time will tell.

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

I wouldn't say he's finished yet. What happens if he gets headed by only one horse and he has room to move outside and stalk while in the clear?

[Marshall Bennett]

Remember Secretariats poor performance in the Wood Memorial ? The rest is history !! :cool:

[slewis]

It sucks to take a stand against War Pass and not even cash....not even a measly show bet....I'm kicking myself big time....

Dear Mr PA,

I know you're probably sick of my posts but here's a REAL good won for ya'.

I"m sitting in a hotel in Tampa with the majority owner of BIG TRUCK, Eric Fein, who would like everyone to know it's time to believe in BIG TRUCK.

Barclay's been telling us he's the best horse he's ever had since he got him in Saratoga last summer. He's said "I know for awhile I was looking pretty stupid, but this horse trains MUCH better then he'd raced until recently."
BUT.....

At this point, Barclay's equally as impressed with ELYSIUM FIELDS.


As for War Pass rumors/fever, we heard them all morning on raceday and kept asking the Tampa Bay racing office yesterday, if he (war pass) had been vanned up from Palm Meadows. There were rumors circulating that he might scratch. I can tell you that we heard from a very reliable source that this horse was fine, he just got beat and the fever issue was not important.
I can personally tell you from someone who looks at horses physically each race, I was in the paddock in Tampa and War Pass looked sensational.
I felt a bit queezy, he looked so good, but assured Eric that "It's a horse race and if Truck's for real he'll have to get the job done"
I also can tell you Todd Pletcher told the TVG people he expected his to run big.
I know the racing world still may have they're doubts about BIG TRUCK, but he's getting better and better. I do the pedigree work for the owner and I assured him from the get-go that, although he's a son of HOOK AND LADDER, the female family will easily get 11//4 miles.
This horse is a grinder. He lacks that 'explosive" move everyone in racing loves to see, but for distance races on the dirt, he's fine.
We're heading off to the OCALA sales so have to run, everyone have fun with my post.....

[russowen77]

Man do I agree about your breeding. His(big Truck) DP almost looks euro. He should sure get even 1 1/2 easily.

[ny0707ny]

Many people online said he did not look the same before the race. Also he was restless in the gate which he never is. I saw the replay and it was not the same horse. He had a lack of energy. I followed all his races since 2 when I knew he would be a great horse.

[magwell]

I would hope the first thing back they are scoping for sponges! :lol: :lol: :lol: for sure your joking......

[jonnielu]

Dear Mr PA,

I know the racing world still may have they're doubts about BIG TRUCK, but he's getting better and better. I do the pedigree work for the owner and I assured him from the get-go that, although he's a son of HOOK AND LADDER, the female family will easily get 11//4 miles.
This horse is a grinder. He lacks that 'explosive" move everyone in racing loves to see, but for distance races on the dirt, he's fine.
We're heading off to the OCALA sales so have to run, everyone have fun with my post.....

Hey Slewis,

Big Truck is still on my list, so what is the next stop? Will I be inspecting Big at the Keeneland paddock?

I believe that I'll find my "good Belmont horse" in the Bluegrass/KD stretch.

jdl

[asH]

Very frustrating when the top horse on your "vulture list" loses before he is supposed to.
I had been holding on to the hope that he would squeek by in the Wood and go in the Derby taking co-favorite type of money.

yeah, all that... and they juiced the track fot nothing:D
(unqualified statement)

[PaceAdvantage]

Dear Mr PA,

I know you're probably sick of my posts but here's a REAL good won for ya'.Actually, I'm not sick of your posts. Why would you think such a thing?

Thanks for the insight!

I had Pletcher's horse and the bomb #4, so turning for home, I thought I was golden....

[BigTruckFan]

It's quite apparent we have another monster horse on our hands...after all, the last winner was STREET SENSE and he did pretty, pretty well in his career....im out, ill be back with a post later

[BigTruckFan]

Not only have we withnessed the rise of Big Truck, but we can also see how this years crop of ny bred 3 year olds is tremendious....we have, Big Truck, Giant Moon, Spanky Fishbein, Giant Moon....the NY bred horses are becoming better and better

[Dahoss9698]

It's good to see Zito bashing and knee jerk reactions are commonplace at all message boards.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's good to see Zito bashing and knee jerk reactions are commonplace at all message boards.When they brought out the fever story, they deserved all the bashing they got and will get....it's deplorable that something like that is either:

a) used as an excuse, but isn't true.....or
b) used as an excuse, and IS true....

Either way, it simply tells the bettor that they're shit, again....

Graded stakes races should have the same exact PRE-RACE injury report requirements as NFL football games (which by the way, are only legal to wager on in the state of Nevada....;) ;) )

[ny0707ny]

I feel sorry for everyone that bet on this horse. Does this help the racing industry in any way though? I mean they all made money on the War Pass bets that lost didn't they?

What percentage of people bet against War Pass. I would love to know.

[PaceAdvantage]

I bet against War Pass, and still lost....

The point is, the guys betting hundreds of thousands of dollars to show on WP (no matter how foolish that strategy may be) deserved to know if he was sick earlier in the week.

This wasn't some 10,000 claimer at BumFluck Downs....in fact, I think all graded stakes races should have stricter injury/illness disclosure rules....

Think about it....what difference does it make to LaPenta or Zito if they disclose he had a fever BEFORE the race is run, or they disclose it AFTER the race is run. Either way, they will be criticized, so why not do the bettor a solid and have that info revealed BEFORE the race....

[ny0707ny]

I bet against War Pass, and still lost....

The point is, the guys betting hundreds of thousands of dollars to show on WP (no matter how foolish that strategy may be) deserved to know if he was sick earlier in the week.

This wasn't some 10,000 claimer at BumFluck Downs....in fact, I think all graded stakes races should have stricter injury/illness disclosure rules....

Think about it....what difference does it make to LaPenta or Zito if they disclose he had a fever BEFORE the race is run, or they disclose it AFTER the race is run. Either way, they will be criticized, so why not do the bettor a solid and have that info revealed BEFORE the race....

Yeah. One of the hundreds of reasons why this sport is not popular. Remember I started a post on here about changes needed? Free PP are just the start.
Soccer my favorite sport is picking up big and growing and horse racing is going in the opposite direction. More MLS teams are being added.
You need the right people running any business. It is the same with stocks. The CEO either makes or breaks the company. The people are just not there to make this sport grow.

[BigTruckFan]

Why would horse racing change anything up...its not like they need to give away guaranteed money to those people that bet their life savings on war pass to show...its called betting for a reason....

BIG TRUCK IS A BEAST!!!!!!!!!

[Semipro]

I feel sorry for everyone that bet on this horse. Does this help the racing industry in any way though? I mean they all made money on the War Pass bets that lost didn't they?

What percentage of people bet against War Pass. I would love to know.I'm just curious, but why do you make a large wager on a horse@ (horse@9) 1/9. I wouldn't bet Curlin running in threeK claimers with those odds.

[ny0707ny]

I'm just curious, but why do you make a large wager on a horse@ (horse@9) 1/9. I wouldn't bet Curlin running in threeK claimers with those odds.

Because I think that most people going to the racetrack just bet on their favorite horse. They are not gamblers. It is just a day out at the track. They put $2 on him or whatever amount. Not everyone that goes to the track are gamblers or bet often. I never bet. I follow the sport like any other sport.

[Niko]

I'm just curious, but why do you make a large wager on a horse@ (horse@9) 1/9. I wouldn't bet Curlin running in threeK claimers with those odds.


Really????? Back the truck up...

[PaceAdvantage]

Why would horse racing change anything up...its not like they need to give away guaranteed money to those people that bet their life savings on war pass to show...its called betting for a reason....Why does the NFL require teams to report every little injury and illness days before gametime?

Horse racing is dead if it loses it's perception that it's a game that can be BEATEN through superior handicapping skill and knowledge.

Holding back vital info that a potential 1/9 shot in a major stakes race had a fever earlier in the week is really a grotesque way to treat your lifeblood, the customer.

Do you really want the mentality that bets $500,000 to show to GO AWAY? I certainly don't.....and I can bet you that every single winning player feels the same way...

[Tee]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/93047.html

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, we knew there would be spin....

[Murph]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/93047.htmlPrivman mentions SA and form in the same sentence here. I think he's chasing ghosts looking for form at SA. To base a future performance by an SA stakes runner going to the mid west dirt tracks will be kind of risky.

[Murph]

Remember Secretariats poor performance in the Wood Memorial ? The rest is history !! :cool:Let's wait until after the Wood Memorial before comparing him to Secretariat.

[Murph]

This horse is a grinder. He lacks that 'explosive" move everyone in racing loves to see, but for distance races on the dirt, he's fine.
We're heading off to the OCALA sales so have to run, everyone have fun with my post.....Oh yeah, thanks alot slewis. I'm about ready to hook my trailer up to a big truck and you make this comment.

"At this point, Barclay's equally as impressed with ELYSIUM FIELDS."

This will be a fun time to handicap the stakes. I may not put much weight on my predictions but I'll probably go ahead and make them anyway. Thanks for a good post, food for thought. Good wishes for your scouting at the sale.

Murph

[OTM Al]

Big Truck might not even be the best NY bred this year. I'll take a pass. Oaklawn is looking pretty good again though.

[jonnielu]

Privman mentions SA and form in the same sentence here. I think he's chasing ghosts looking for form at SA. To base a future performance by an SA stakes runner going to the mid west dirt tracks will be kind of risky.

Quite the keen observation of west to east.:ThmbUp:

jdl

[Shenanigans]

I really don't think a fever a week following up to the race would make a horse run on the wrong lead in the turn.:rolleyes: There's another reason for this horses poor performance.

[rokitman]

Somebody stuck a fork in him.

[russowen77]

To me he didn't look good at the end of the last race he won. I think he has a problem but it is sure not like they can tell you. If it is deep you can't feel it.

[46zilzal]

Many a good baby simply was precocious. They were faster than their contemporaries until distance began to raise it's head and they were exposed. Might be the case here.

[Shenanigans]

Many a good baby simply was precocious. They were faster than their contemporaries until distance began to raise it's head and they were exposed. Might be the case here.

Very interesting theory, since the BC Juvenile is the same distance as the Tampa Bay Derby.:rolleyes:

[BigTruckFan]

Big Truck's simply bred for the Kentucky Derby distance

if you understand how to read the dosage profile(as i was taught to do so by Slewis) then you can understand Big Trucks legitimate shot-

5-0-11-1-1


:jump:

[46zilzal]

Very interesting theory, since the BC Juvenile is the same distance as the Tampa Bay Derby.
Distances DOWN THE ROAD DUMMY!! 9 10 furlongs...

I can list dozens of them over the years. Stormello, Scat Daddy and NoBiz just last year all showed that 10 furlongs was too long.

[tholl]

Distances DOWN THE ROAD DUMMY!! 9 10 furlongs...

I can list dozens of them over the years. Stormello, Scat Daddy and NoBiz just last year all showed that 10 furlongs was too long.


Did'nt seem you meant 'down the road"
Anyway, Scat Daddy had no problem with 9 furlongs--won the Fountain Of Youth and Florida Derby going that far.

[46zilzal]

Did'nt seem you meant 'down the road"
Anyway, Scat Daddy had no problem with 9 furlongs--won the Fountain Of Youth and Florida Derby going that far.
Barely, and on oxygen which said that the next step was not going to happen.

[tholl]

Barely, and on oxygen which said that the next step was not going to happen.


Closed to win the FOY by a nose--was drawing off in the Florida Derby--I don't think another furlong would have been a problem.

[zoobird]

Many a good baby simply was precocious. They were faster than their contemporaries until distance began to raise it's head and they were exposed. Might be the case here.

Except that he absolutely destroyed the best of his contemporaries at the same distance in the BC Juvenile. He may not be able to get a mile and a quarter but he sure as heck can get a mile and an eighth. Either something is wrong, or he's one of those horses who can only win when in front. I'm going to guess the former...and wonder if we'll ever see the 'real' War Pass again...at any distance. But I hope we do!

[46zilzal]

Early maturing babies, IN COMPARISON to their lesser maturing contemporaries look giants when that is relative only.

[njcurveball]

Distances DOWN THE ROAD DUMMY!! 9 10 furlongs...

I can list dozens of them over the years. Stormello, Scat Daddy and NoBiz just last year all showed that 10 furlongs was too long.

I guess if you want to win an argument you can try to slice the pie anyway you like.

Bottom line is that you list horses who won MULTIPLE times at 9 furlongs and who will only try 10 furlongs ONCE in their careers.

If one loss at the distance is enough for you then there are literally thousands of horses you could list, so why stop at dozens. :bang:

[zoobird]

Then how come none of them (as 3 year olds) have come anywhere near the speed figure he ran last year?

[Shenanigans]

Many a good baby simply was precocious. They were faster than their contemporaries until distance began to raise it's head and they were exposed. Might be the case here.

That doesn't exactly look like you were implying "down the road". This thread was about War Pass' poor performance and the reason behind it. You gave your theory. Who's the dummy?
Face it, you've been nailed again on one of your asinine theories. You're too easy, this is getting fun.:p

[Stevie Belmont]

He is not a 1 1/4 quarter horse. I tossed him on Derby day with confidence.

Did'nt seem you meant 'down the road"
Anyway, Scat Daddy had no problem with 9 furlongs--won the Fountain Of Youth and Florida Derby going that far.