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View Full Version : Why no comment on the R. Baze Ride?

JustRalph
03-02-2008, 08:39 AM
Just wondering why I haven't seen any comments on the ride on Monterey Jazz in the BigCap yesterday? I think it was a piss poor performance.

I expected better from the worlds leading winner? I also wondered why he wasn't riding the Hollendorfer horse?
ryesteve
03-02-2008, 08:52 AM
Just wondering why I haven't seen any comments on the ride on Monterey Jazz in the BigCap yesterday?Probably because it was what a lot of people expected to see. The horse pretty much did the same thing he did last time, albeit on a surface that was far less conducive to it.
john del riccio
03-02-2008, 08:52 AM
Just wondering why I haven't seen any comments on the ride on Monterey Jazz in the BigCap yesterday? I think it was a piss poor performance.

I expected better from the worlds leading winner? I also wondered why he wasn't riding the Hollendorfer horse?

Ralph,

You may have answered your own question.....

Sometimes the worse thing you can do to a "balls to the wall" speed horse is rate him...


On a different note, that exacta came back a little light don't you think ?


John
cj
03-02-2008, 09:03 AM
He isn't the world's leading rider.
john del riccio
03-02-2008, 09:12 AM
He isn't the world's leading rider.

CJ,

Nice call on the winner, next time don't beat around the bush and just say who you like.:)

John
Murph
03-02-2008, 09:31 AM
He isn't the world's leading rider.He is the winningest jockey in the recorded history of thoroughbred racing, evAH! We won't meet the jock who wins every race he rides in our lifetime, so I'll settle for Russell, he's the best.

Murph
Dahoss9698
03-02-2008, 09:41 AM
He is the winningest jockey in the recorded history of thoroughbred racing, evAH! We won't meet the jock who wins every race he rides in our lifetime, so I'll settle for Russell, he's the best.

Murph

No he isn't on both counts. But I also don't think he did anything wrong yesterday.
cj
03-02-2008, 10:11 AM
He is the winningest jockey in the recorded history of thoroughbred racing, evAH! We won't meet the jock who wins every race he rides in our lifetime, so I'll settle for Russell, he's the best.

Murph

Do you honestly think I would write what I did without already knowing he isn't the jockey with the most wins?

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=3192034
classhandicapper
03-02-2008, 10:18 AM
Just wondering why I haven't seen any comments on the ride on Monterey Jazz in the BigCap yesterday? I think it was a piss poor performance.

I expected better from the worlds leading winner? I also wondered why he wasn't riding the Hollendorfer horse?

Opening up like that obviously eliminated any chance the horse had of getting 10F. IMO, the perfect ride would have been to open 2-3 lengths and rate. I'd have to watch the replay again to determine how much of it was Baze's fault and how much was the horse's inability to relax, but personally I suspect he could have done a better job than that.
ManeMediaMogul
03-02-2008, 10:33 AM
Go back and watch the replay. Russell wasn't send him. He was trying to rate him. The horse is a run-off and tough to ride. His win was aided by a bias and he had virtually no shot on yesterday's track going a mile and a quarter.
classhandicapper
03-02-2008, 10:34 AM
On a different note, that exacta came back a little light don't you think ?


John

I thought it came back light. I had it and was disappointed in the price. I was expecting over $100. It's possible that a lot of people played the race like I did. I left off Monterey Jazz (as the favorite) and spread around in exotics because I had no strong opinion on the win end. It looked to me like a lot of horses were geared up for their "A" game. Perhaps, many others thought so too.
The Bit
03-02-2008, 10:54 AM
Murph,

You said Baze with the winningest rider ever with some conviction there! Too bad he isn't.

I questioned the ride a bit. If he had gone the opening 1/4 in 22.4 or 23.xx and than the 2nd quarter in 46.2 I would have questioned it less than I do now. The fact that he got the horse to gear down through an opening 1/4 in 24.00 tells me the horse wasn't a run off and the 2nd quarter could have been controlled also. But I'm not jockey nor did I like 'Jazz.
AQUEBUCKS
03-02-2008, 10:59 AM
Cushion played to the Late Pace horses and Turf played to E/EP horses, pretty much all week. I don't think Russel did anything that anyone else wouldn't have done. The only other alternative would have been to just pull him up.
Robert Fischer
03-02-2008, 12:02 PM
Probably because it was what a lot of people expected to see. The horse pretty much did the same thing he did last time, albeit on a surface that was far less conducive to it. exactamundo
toetoe
03-02-2008, 12:14 PM
That's one white jockey you don't have to worry about, ratingwise. Now, maybe the horse fooled him, but short of yanking hard enough to increase his sleeve length by two sizes (a recipe for failure also), what would we have him do ?
Dan Montilion
03-02-2008, 12:19 PM
That's one white jockey you don't have to worry about, ratingwise. Now, maybe the horse fooled him, but short of yanking hard enough to increase his sleeve length by two sizes (a recipe for failure also), what would we have him do ? Stay in NoCal and win a six horse MCL 8K by 7 lengths for Steve Sherman...
Greyfox
03-02-2008, 12:21 PM
Go back and watch the replay. Russell wasn't send him. He was trying to rate him. The horse is a run-off and tough to ride. His win was aided by a bias and he had virtually no shot on yesterday's track going a mile and a quarter.

The first three fractions were : 24.02 46.89 1:10.11

Note the time between the first and second fractions.
The first fraction was almost reasonable.
The 22.87 between the first and second fraction is brutally fast for the distance. Then the 6 furlong time was also vicious. No horse in the world could maintain those pace clips.

The fact the first fraction was 24 or so, tells me this horse was not a "runoff."
Russell Baze is a good rider. He wasn't in this race.
classhandicapper
03-02-2008, 12:41 PM
This is really an interesting debate.

I agree with those that point out that the first quarter was very reasonable and THEN the race picked up. If you watch the horses through the stretch the first time, MJ was very relaxed. So you would immediately suspect that Baze much have urged the horse through the second quarter. However, when I watched the replay it did seem as though Baze was trying hard to restrain the horse until the second turn, but he kept opening up.

There was a point early in the race where another horse made a little early bid. It's possible that MJ responded to that and dragged Baze after initially being very relaxed.

NO matter how you slice it, if the horse had any chance to get 10F on that surface, that wasn't the way to do it.

He's an improving horse. He'll be good going shorter. Perhaps they should give him another shot on dirt in his current form.
JustRalph
03-02-2008, 03:35 PM
Good comments. I just wondered what you guys would say. People raised hell when Santo's wouldn't let Funny Cide run. Then this one runs away some and I saw no comments. I expected the horse to fall back in the stretch. But I also expected Baze to rate him better......than he did. I guess that is the difference. Santo's comprimised Funny Cide (or at least some believe he did) and most believe that RBaze didn't really compromise MJ? MJ"S Performance was expected. Makes sense............. :ThmbUp:
GlenninOhio
03-02-2008, 04:05 PM
Just as an FYI - MJ ran a 22-1/5 third quarter (and 1:08 for the 6 furlongs) in going wire-to-wire to win the Strub. Of course, 9 furlongs, not 10 furlongs; "dream trip" and so on.
betchatoo
03-02-2008, 04:44 PM
If I remember right, Secretariat ran a 1:09 and change on his way to the world's record.
Turfday
03-02-2008, 05:02 PM
Monterey Jazz is an obviously talented speed horse who very likely has distance limitations. He strikes me as a developing 4-year-old that could be a good fit for say a race like the Met Mile.
cmoore
03-02-2008, 05:04 PM
A millon dollar race and thats your strategy...He's was the only early speed in the race..Everyone in the world knew he was going to get the lead...If he couldn't be rated, then his chances were slim even though a 5/2 favorite..Maybe the trainer/owner were just rolling the dice and just thinking what if he could pull it off..I was mumbling to myelf after th 4f mark..saying BAZE..what the hell are u doing????? Now they now he can't get 1 1/4...LOL!!!!
juanepstein
03-02-2008, 05:14 PM
bejarano/hollendorfer have been hot,hot,hot!!!! why change it.

dollase couldnt get a so. cal rider on monterey so he calls on russell baze?

come on! its not rocket science.
Greyfox
03-02-2008, 05:18 PM
If I remember right, Secretariat ran a 1:09 and change on his way to the world's record.

Even Sec couldn't likely have maintained those fractions on Santa Anita's cushion track the way it has been playing the last two weeks.
Burls
03-02-2008, 05:26 PM
If I remember right, Secretariat ran a 1:09 and change on his way to the world's record.

In the words of Lloyd Benson.

I know Secretariat.
I worked with Secretariat.
And let me tell you Monterey Jazz,
you're no Secretariat. :lol:
BlueShoe
03-02-2008, 09:03 PM
Article in todays OC Register with quotes from Baze.He said that everything was fine until they went into the first turn;MJ then grabbed the bit and ran off.Before the race the trainer had told Baze that any effort to restrain him would be useless,and that he would stop if it was attempted.Conclusion;the colt is headstrong and was rank and just ran off;he would have done the same with any rider.Sorry for me,had a large wager on MJ and watched with horror when he opened up that 10-12 length lead.Cant help but wonder what would happen if they returned him to sprinting,BC sprint major contender perhaps?
Greyfox
03-02-2008, 10:07 PM
Article in todays OC Register with quotes from Baze.He said that everything was fine until they went into the first turn;MJ then grabbed the bit and ran off.Before the race the trainer had told Baze that any effort to restrain him would be useless,and that he would stop if it was attempted.Conclusion;the colt is headstrong and was rank and just ran off;he would have done the same with any rider.Sorry for me,had a large wager on MJ and watched with horror when he opened up that 10-12 length lead.Cant help but wonder what would happen if they returned him to sprinting,BC sprint major contender perhaps?

Well there's a good chance that happened. R.Baze is a good rider. In fact he's the winningest jock in North America. The question is:
"Why did MJ grab the bit?" Did he hear a chirp of any kind?
The internal fractions were murderous to any hope of winning.
After fractions like those, what can R.B. say? He's not going to say, "I went too fast."
Blame Baze for the Blaze or the Horse. Take your pick.
maxwell
03-02-2008, 11:30 PM
The boys at the DRF didn't like his chances too much :

Tiago

Awesome Gem

Student Council

They kinda fell asleep on Heatseeker, however. :D

Brad Free :

MJ will lead as far as he can, but the surface has changed sinse he romped in the Strub. He benifitted from a speed bias going 1 1/8 miles, now he goes 1 1/4 miles over a surface where speed is a liability.

Ship him to NY for those nice 7f. graded races!
Murph
03-03-2008, 06:39 AM
Murph,

You said Baze with the winningest rider ever with some conviction there! Too bad he isn't.
So everyone, anyone tell me, who is the winningest jockey of all time?
Pace Cap'n
03-03-2008, 06:58 AM
So everyone, anyone tell me, who is the winningest jockey of all time?

Jorge Ricardo. But it's close.

sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?id=3179583 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Ricardo)
cj
03-03-2008, 10:12 AM
So everyone, anyone tell me, who is the winningest jockey of all time?

I posted a link right in my post.
JPinMaryland
03-03-2008, 10:39 AM
See w/ Ricardo on MJ, he romps by open lengths. :cool:
Murph
03-03-2008, 05:35 PM
I posted a link right in my post.That was from 7 weeks ago! What's their records look like today?

I am just funning with you all a bit. I had NOT heard of Ricardo before though so I'm always learning things here. This one isn't over yet. I like the story, very interesting.

Thanks CJ and all.
pandy
03-03-2008, 06:02 PM
Just wondering why I haven't seen any comments on the ride on Monterey Jazz in the BigCap yesterday? I think it was a piss poor performance.

I expected better from the worlds leading winner? I also wondered why he wasn't riding the Hollendorfer horse?

I assure you that Russell didn't want to go out and set that type of pace but they probably told him to just let the horse run. Every experienced jockey knows you can't win the big cap like that but sometimes horses do what they want. It's not like driving a car.
cnollfan
03-03-2008, 09:48 PM
I assure you that Russell didn't want to go out and set that type of pace but they probably told him to just let the horse run. Every experienced jockey knows you can't win the big cap like that but sometimes horses do what they want. It's not like driving a car.

And the more I watch Nascar, the more I realize that driving a car isn't like driving a car either.