Message For Track Thieves

[Cangamble]

Not 100% sure but you can add these to your excellent list for the meantime:

Fort Erie:
Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 15.7%
Daily Double and Exactor wagering: 26.20%
Pick 3, Win 4, Superfecta wagering: 26.20%
Triactor wagering: 28.20%



Hastings:

Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 15.8%
Daily Double and Exacta wagering: 23.8%
Trifecta and Win 3 wagering: 26.8%
Pick 4 and Pick 6 wagering: 26.8%

Assiniboia Downs:

Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 19%
Daily Double, Quinella, and Exacta wagering: 25.05%
Trifecta wagering: 29.5%
Win 3 and Win 4 wagering: 27.05%


You'll like this too. Found this at the biggest thieves in the business (WEG's) website.



http://www.woodbineentertainment.com/commonpools/index.html
Why might payoffs on some pools differ from that of the host?
Since some U.S. tracks have extraordinarily low takeout rates on some pools (e.g. Triactors, Superfectas) that do not accommodate the high mandatory deductions in Canada, WEG will use a minimum of 25% for the total takeout on these pools. This is a very common rate that is used by other U.S. tracks.

High mandatory deductions in Canada?
Horsepeople receive a further 2% on all wagers except 4% on triactor wagering.

The Ontario Provincial Government retains 0.5% on all bets placed in Ontario.

The Canadian Government (through a revolving fund cost recovery basis) retains 0.8%
On all wagers placed in Canada for provision of drug control, photo-finish, video patrol
And audit services.

The only difference between flat bets and triactors as far as mandatory deductions go is the extra 2% horse people receive, yet their win takeout is around 16%. Can you believe this bs?


One more thing: Couldn't find track takeouts at Woodbine's up to date web site anywhere.


You have to have absolute ignorance to bet real money with the the rip off artists known as WEG.

[Cangamble]

I think Fort Erie's WPS is 16.95% not 15.7%. It is so hard to get this type of info though.

[samyn on the green]

Try this site for more info.

http://www.sportsbettingacumen.com/horse-racing-track-takeout-chart.asp

[BombsAway Bob]

CANADA is trying hard, but they Still haven't beaten
The King of Loan-Shark Takeout Rates,
PHILLY PARK's 30% VIG on TRIs & Supers!!!:liar:
(Plus, the slime have Slots $$$ filling their coffers...)

[Cangamble]

Try this site for more info.

http://www.sportsbettingacumen.com/horse-racing-track-takeout-chart.asp

Thanks, but I know that site and it is not up to date. They have Woodbine lower than it really is for example and still show Woodbine having their low win 4 rates which was secretly moved up over a year ago.

A regular poster here has tried to put together a more up to date list, but he is missing the tracks I made this thread about today: http://www.trackthieves.com/Takeout1.html

[Cangamble]

CANADA is trying hard, but they Still haven't beaten
The King of Loan-Shark Takeout Rates,
PHILLY PARK's 30% VIG on TRIs & Supers!!!:liar:
(Plus, the slime have Slots $$$ filling their coffers...)
That is why I have only played Philly on Betfair.
These imbeciles (WEG included of course) have no idea how much action they are losing. I honestly don't think they have a clue.

[northerndancer]

Woodbine Takeout Percentages:

Win/Place/Show - 16.95%

Exactor & Daily Doube - 20.5%

Triactor - 28.30%

Win 4 - 25%

All others - 26.3%

[rrbauer]

Will update my site next week........heading for Knoxville Saturday for the Tenn-KY game on Sunday. Heard today that KY's center Patterson has stress fracture and will be done for the season. Big blow to that program. The guy has some great moves in the paint. Anyway, thanks for the takeout info.

How can any track getting casino/slot money for purses justify charging takeout of more than 15 percent? Of course, they can "justify" anything so long as the horseplayers are footing the bill.

We all know the remedy........

[Cangamble]

Will update my site next week........heading for Knoxville Saturday for the Tenn-KY game on Sunday. Heard today that KY's center Patterson has stress fracture and will be done for the season. Big blow to that program. The guy has some great moves in the paint. Anyway, thanks for the takeout info.

How can any track getting casino/slot money for purses justify charging takeout of more than 15 percent? Of course, they can "justify" anything so long as the horseplayers are footing the bill.

We all know the remedy........
OK, it is well past last week. I want to paste the takeouts on my blog, not to put pressure on you or anything.:)

[banacek]

Hastings:

Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 15.8%
Daily Double and Exacta wagering: 23.8%
Trifecta and Win 3 wagering: 26.8%
Pick 4 and Pick 6 wagering: 26.8%


That's from 2006. Last year when I started playing, I noticed the payoffs were a little short. I thought the take might have changed so I searched the website for info to no avail (it might have been there, but they know how to hide it). So I emailed Hastings and got the following terse reply:

"The take out rate is now 17%"

A follow-up email was not answered by Hastings.

The rise in take certainly caused my betting on Hastings to drop - that's what we keep telling the racetrack management!

Well, since they have added slots and have upped the purses for 2008 by 20%, I have a hope they will give something back to the bettors too and bring the take back down.:lol: :lol:

[Cangamble]

Thanks for that info. I just put a chart, using Trackthieves info on my blog, and I reedited the new info on Hastings (those basturds:mad:)

[baconswitchfarm]

The king is Pocono Downs Harness. The tri take out is 35%. Try beating a $5000 pool with that take out.

[thespaah]

Not 100% sure but you can add these to your excellent list for the meantime:

Fort Erie:
Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 15.7%
Daily Double and Exactor wagering: 26.20%
Pick 3, Win 4, Superfecta wagering: 26.20%
Triactor wagering: 28.20%



Hastings:

Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 15.8%
Daily Double and Exacta wagering: 23.8%
Trifecta and Win 3 wagering: 26.8%
Pick 4 and Pick 6 wagering: 26.8%

Assiniboia Downs:

Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 19%
Daily Double, Quinella, and Exacta wagering: 25.05%
Trifecta wagering: 29.5%
Win 3 and Win 4 wagering: 27.05%


You'll like this too. Found this at the biggest thieves in the business (WEG's) website.



http://www.woodbineentertainment.com/commonpools/index.html
Why might payoffs on some pools differ from that of the host?
Since some U.S. tracks have extraordinarily low takeout rates on some pools (e.g. Triactors, Superfectas) that do not accommodate the high mandatory deductions in Canada, WEG will use a minimum of 25% for the total takeout on these pools. This is a very common rate that is used by other U.S. tracks.

High mandatory deductions in Canada?
Horsepeople receive a further 2% on all wagers except 4% on triactor wagering.

The Ontario Provincial Government retains 0.5% on all bets placed in Ontario.

The Canadian Government (through a revolving fund cost recovery basis) retains 0.8%
On all wagers placed in Canada for provision of drug control, photo-finish, video patrol
And audit services.

The only difference between flat bets and triactors as far as mandatory deductions go is the extra 2% horse people receive, yet their win takeout is around 16%. Can you believe this bs?


One more thing: Couldn't find track takeouts at Woodbine's up to date web site anywhere.


You have to have absolute ignorance to bet real money with the the rip off artists known as WEG. what do you expect from a socialist country

[46zilzal]

what do you expect from a socialist country
Well there are NO taxes on winning any amount. ANY AMOUNT.

[thespaah]

Well there are NO taxes on winning any amount. ANY AMOUNT.are you sure?..I know that applies to lottery winnings..For example winners of lotto 6/49 pay no taxes on their newfound bounty.

[Cangamble]

Well there are NO taxes on winning any amount. ANY AMOUNT.
No taxes, but Woodbine's tri is more than 40% higher than Tampa Bay's takeout on tris for example.

[46zilzal]

are you sure?..I know that applies to lottery winnings..For example winners of lotto 6/49 pay no taxes on their newfound bounty.
Two of my patients won big: NO tax

[njcurveball]

No taxes, but Woodbine's tri is more than 40% higher than Tampa Bay's takeout on tris for example.

I would prefer to give my 40% to the track rather than the IRS if I had my choice in this country! :mad:

Imagine if racing had enough clout to get a law passed that winning wagers on animals were tax exempt. Heck, people might even leave the poker parlors if that happened. :ThmbUp:

[cj]

I have found something interesting that I didn't really consider in the past. I knew breakage in effect just added to the takeout, but I didn't realize by how much.

If you bet every horse in my database over the last year, you lose 25%, not the takeout. If the average take is 18%, breakage adds another 7% on top of it. Favorites, as a group, lose slightly less than the take, while all others are losing around 26%.

It seems like getting breakage eliminated is a possibly a better starting point than reducing takeout.

[Cangamble]

I have found something interesting that I didn't really consider in the past. I knew breakage in effect just added to the takeout, but I didn't realize by how much.

If you bet every horse in my database over the last year, you lose 25%, not the takeout. If the average take is 18%, breakage adds another 7% on top of it. Favorites, as a group, lose slightly less than the take, while all others are losing around 26%.

It seems like getting breakage eliminated is a possibly a better starting point than reducing takeout.
I really don't get the math with that. I think it is possible you are mixing things up, but I'm not opposed to being proved wrong.
I think that if you bet on every horse in every race the ROI might be .75, but it isn't breakage related. All that means is that if the average field size was 10 horses, the average winner would pay $15, which means that underlays win more than overlays collectively.

[Cangamble]

I would prefer to give my 40% to the track rather than the IRS if I had my choice in this country! :mad:

Imagine if racing had enough clout to get a law passed that winning wagers on animals were tax exempt. Heck, people might even leave the poker parlors if that happened. :ThmbUp:
The 30% withholding is ridiculous, but I thought you could get it back if you showed enough losses at the end of the year. Am I wrong about that?

[cj]

I admit it is confusing, and I could be wrong.

I thought about it this way. If every race, the there is 100,000 bet and a 15% takeout, they give back 85,000 (minus breakage). If there are 10 horse fields every race, and I bet $2 on every horse, or $20, shouldn't I average $17 back before breakage? Instead, I'm getting $15. I guess some is related to the underbet favorite/overbet longshot bias and the rest is breakage. I don't know how to determine how much.

The breakage percentage would vary depending on the odds of the winner. If I hit a $20 winner that should have paid $20.19, I lost 1% of my profit to breakage. If I hit a $3.00 winner that should have paid $3.19, I lost 16% of my profit to breakage.

[Cangamble]

I admit it is confusing, and I could be wrong.

I thought about it this way. If every race, the there is 100,000 bet and a 15% takeout, they give back 85,000 (minus breakage). If there are 10 horse fields every race, and I bet $2 on every horse, or $20, shouldn't I average $17 back before breakage? Instead, I'm getting $15. I guess some is related to the underbet favorite/overbet longshot bias and the rest is breakage. I don't know how to determine how much.

The breakage percentage would vary depending on the odds of the winner. If I hit a $20 winner that should have paid $20.19, I lost 1% of my profit to breakage. If I hit a $3.00 winner that should have paid $3.19, I lost 16% of my profit to breakage.
We go to the dime in Canada. But if something pays .19 it is equally likely to pay .18, .17, etc. The average would be .10
Now we have to figure out what the "mean" payment is for all bets. If we are dealing with win bets, I think the average payoff is around $13 (again, I'm guessing). That would mean that breakage rip off would only be 11.1 divided by 11 which is less than 1%.

I understand what you mean by confusing, it took my a while to get it when I first read Modern Impact Values. A large study was done and the return on all horses for a $2 bet was 1.52, or very close to your numbers.
But if you look at sprints, a $2 bet yields 1.49 if you bet every horse, and if you bet every horse in turf routes you would return 1.61. So it isn't related directly to track takeout but average payoff of horses.
We know certain tracks are prone to more favorite winners than others for example. If you bet all horses at a track that has a favorite bias, you'll get a smaller return if you bet every horse than a track that has plenty of longshots.