OTB Needs Street Smarts To Survive--article

[Pace Cap'n]

NY Daily News article... (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2008/02/26/2008-02-26_otb_needs_street_smarts_to_survive.html)

...Show me a horse-betting operation that's losing money and I'll show you somebody who's bleepin' stealing," says the guru.

No way possible to lose money running a horse operation like OTB. I'll tell you why: Show me one degenerate horse player who has a luxury condo, yacht, summer home, exotic car. I wanna meet one because you got a better shot meetin' a bleepin' unicorn. That's why every casino in the world wants horse players. YOU CAN'T LOSE! Because they always do. Take it from me, nothin's wrong with OTB except somebody's gotta be bleepin' stealin'. Me, I could turn it profitable overnight."

I asked how. "Treat losers like winners for starts," he says. "Go look in any OTB jernt and all you see is a collection of bust-outs standing around in a grubby hell hole. They look and feel like losers. When I ran my jernts they were spotless. Classy. We'd put out trays of lasagna, baked ziti, fresh turkeys, whole roast beefs, all the soda and coffee you could bang down. You gotta make a loser feel good about losin' or else he goes to lose somewheres else."

[Zman179]

You know, I used to go to these bookie joints back in the 80's (in Brooklyn and Queens) before the cops cracked down on them. These places did everything that the capo said in the article and treated you like a king.

[Robert Fischer]

:D


The horseplayer also needs some street smarts to survive in some of those dumps;)

[shanta]

You know, I used to go to these bookie joints back in the 80's (in Brooklyn and Queens) before the cops cracked down on them. These places did everything that the capo said in the article and treated you like a king.
Same setups in the Bronx Zman. :)

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

Illegal bookies can put all the freebies they want out there and not worry because your garden variety street scum isn't gonna mess with them. You offer free food in a public place like an OTB and you're gonna get even more bums going in there, a lot of whom won't be betting.

[badcompany]

You offer free food in a public place like an OTB and you're gonna get even more bums going in there, a lot of whom won't be betting.

Nah, all the bums are already in OTB.

[rrbauer]

Nah, all the bums are already in OTB.
:lol: :ThmbUp: :lol:

They're somewhere between a soup kitchen and a social club.

[Murph]

:lol: :ThmbUp: :lol:

They're somewhere between a soup kitchen and a social club.Simulcasting is open in the old dining room at Hoosier Park during construction of our fabulous new and newly renovated facility. Live racing begins April 5th. I've been asking the help where they are planning on racing this meeting and no one seems to know.

This is a terrible area for simulcasting and it is sometimes impossible to get
in and out of the parking area where it's often required to navagate a maze to find a place to park. Yet the addition of free softdrinks and coffee combined with affordable beer and cheep food is keeping the simulcasting customers comming back in force every weekend. Sunday there were 500 plus for the FOY and the previous Sat. night the tables were nearly filled.

Cheap food and free drinks is working for now and mgt. movers are telling us that the new racino facility is going to be very pleasant and feature rich with horse player perks. They began offering a hi speed free wi-fi connection recently and I've been thrilled with that development.

It looks like I'm going to be moving to a very nice office in the near future. I hope and expect the horseplaying area to develop into one the capo might be proud of. NYOTB could do something to move their properties to a more positive circumstance if they wanted to. I'm only an outsider looking in on this one though.

Murph

[badcompany]

It looks like I'm going to be moving to a very nice office in the near future. I hope and expect the horseplaying area to develop into one the capo might be proud of. NYOTB could do something to move their properties to a more positive circumstance if they wanted to. I'm only an outsider looking in on this one though.

Murph

Partially because of NYCOTB, horseracing and horseplayers have a horrible reputation in NYC. The Capo hit the nail on the head about the whole operation. No self-respecting person would go into a NYCOTB. IMO, closing them and starting over, having a private company run things would be the best alternative.

[The Hawk]

Partially because of NYCOTB, horseracing and horseplayers have a horrible reputation in NYC. The Capo hit the nail on the head about the whole operation. No self-respecting person would go into a NYCOTB. IMO, closing them and starting over, having a private company run things would be the best alternative.

100% dead on. When people hear you play horses around here they immediately think of the vagrants milling outside the OTB's nearest their office, and your viewed in that light. I REALLY hope they close them down and start over again, with some enlightened people as advisors.

[classhandicapper]

I don't think the problem is OTB. I think the problem is the type of people that tend to play horses. If you open an OTB in neighborhood "X", you are automatically going to get some of the local degenerates into that OTB. That makes the environment less attractive for everyone else. If you want to make it more upscale you can by charging people to get in, requiring a jacket, turning it into a restaurant that requires you to eat/drink also etc.... but then you lose a ton of your customers (degenerates bet). The reality is that a real lot of horseplayers are degenerate gamblers with other issues; even if that's not true here at paceadvantage etc...

[badcompany]

I don't think the problem is OTB. I think the problem is the type of people that tend to play horses. If you open an OTB in neighborhood "X", you are automatically going to get some of the local degenerates into that OTB. That makes the environment less attractive for everyone else. If you want to make it more upscale you can by charging people to get in, requiring a jacket, turning it into a restaurant that requires you to eat/drink also etc.... but then you lose a ton of your customers (degenerates bet). The reality is that a real lot of horseplayers are degenerate gamblers with other issues; even if that's not true here at paceadvantage etc...

You're certainly right. That's why I said OTB is "partially" to blame. That said, I've been to the Meadowlands many times for simultcasting. The crowd there is way better than what you see in OTB.

[Indulto]

I don't think the problem is OTB. I think the problem is the type of people that tend to play horses. If you open an OTB in neighborhood "X", you are automatically going to get some of the local degenerates into that OTB. That makes the environment less attractive for everyone else. If you want to make it more upscale you can by charging people to get in, requiring a jacket, turning it into a restaurant that requires you to eat/drink also etc.... but then you lose a ton of your customers (degenerates bet). The reality is that a real lot of horseplayers are degenerate gamblers with other issues; even if that's not true here at paceadvantage etc...CH,
Please define "degenerate" for me. I think I are one. At least that's what people have been telling me almost all my adult life.

Funny, I've never been accosted at a racing viewing facility as I have at NFL game viewing facilities where betting is supposedly illegal.

I wonder how many horseplayers -- or any other passionate sports bettors/gamblers -- put on their best attire before venturing out to their preferred betting facility? Is no attire at all more acceptable when wagering? Do horseplayers smoke more than cardplayers, drink more than football fans, eat more than baseball fans, or take more drugs than basketball fans?

There may be homeless people at OTBs, but are they betting? Do people have more accidents driving home from OTBs than from sportsbars? Is a person more likely to be arrested at an OTB than a sportsbar?

Does the daddy/couch potato who won't go on Sunday outings during football season any more loving than one who takes off for the track on warm, sunny Saturdays and takes the kid(s) with him?

Ya know what I think? That anyone able to pursue their passion enjoyably at no expense to others should be envied rather than criticized. I suspect that any detractor determined to decide the degeneracy of a horseplayer (or a racing message board poster), probably deserves that very designation.

[exiles]

[QUOTE=Indulto]CH,
Please define "degenerate" for me. I think I are one. At least that's what people have been telling me almost all my adult life.

Funny, I've never been accosted at a racing viewing facility as I have at NFL game viewing facilities where betting is supposedly illegal.

I wonder how many horseplayers -- or any other passionate sports bettors/gamblers -- put on their best attire before venturing out to their preferred betting facility? Is no attire at all more acceptable when wagering? Do horseplayers smoke more than cardplayers, drink more than football fans, eat more than baseball fans, or take more drugs than basketball fans?

There may be homeless people at OTBs, but are they betting? Do people have more accidents driving home from OTBs than from sportsbars? Is a person more likely to be arrested at an OTB than a sportsbar?

Does the daddy/couch potato who won't go on Sunday outings during football season any more loving than one who takes off for the track on warm, sunny Saturdays and takes the kid(s) with him?

Ya know what I think? That anyone able to pursue their passion enjoyably at no expense to others should be envied rather than criticized. I suspect that any detractor determined to decide the degeneracy of a horseplayer (or a racing message board poster), probably deserves that very designation.[/QUOTE

AMEN!!:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[classhandicapper]

CH,
Please define "degenerate" for me. I think I are one. At least that's what people have been telling me almost all my adult life.



"Degenerate" may or may not have been the right word. I'll describe what I mean.

When some people lose a bet they feel disappointed and/or a bit angry (depending on the ride they got :lol: ), but they remain under reasonable control. Other people throw things, use extremely foul language, start arguments with others, break things etc...

When some people got to the track or OTB they dress casually, but reasonably neat. Others are dressed like pigs, haven't showered in several days, piss their pants etc...

When some people gamble they also like to have a couple of beers/drinks, but without getting drunk. Some people get drunk out of their minds and get obnoxious towards other customers, betting clerks etc...

When some people see a very attractive women, they may take a quick glance at her (especially the rear view after she walks past :lol: ), but they make a least a bit of an effort to not get caught and make her uncomfortable. Some people will stare, say offensive things, touch her, etc...

You see bad behavior everywhere. Unfortunately, too high a percentage of horseplayers fall into the latter category of each. I see it all too often at OTBs, but not as often elsewhere.

[classhandicapper]

There may be homeless people at OTBs, but are they betting?

At the Hillside Ave OTB in Queens there is a homeless guy they call "SUBWAY". He's there almost every day. He spends a few hours each morning in the 179th St "subway" begging for money. When he has enough, he comes upstairs with piles and piles of nickels, dimes, and quarters and starts playing triples and other exotics. As soon as he's broke (and it usually doesn't take long because he plays cold triples, pick3s etc...) he goes back downstairs and begs again until he has enough to make some more bets. He's there all day screaming, yelling, smelling badly and begging. I'm not sure what to call that. I feel terrible every time I see the guy and wish he'd take the money, clean himself up, and get a decent meal. I'd give him money if I knew he would use it to help himself. But no matter what, he and lots of the other customers there make it uncomfortable - even for a guy who has spent most of his life at tracks, OTBs and in seedy pool rooms.

[Indulto]

"Degenerate" may or may not have been the right word. I'll describe what I mean.

When some people lose a bet they feel disappointed and/or a bit angry (depending on the ride they got :lol: ), but they remain under reasonable control. Other people throw things, use extremely foul language, start arguments with others, break things etc...This is a security issue, so it is OTBs fault.When some people got to the track or OTB they dress casually, but reasonably neat. Others are dressed like pigs, haven't showered in several days, piss their pants etc. ...Hardly confined to horseplayers. Are lottery/slot players sweet smelling?When some people gamble they also like to have a couple of beers/drinks, but without getting drunk. Some people get drunk out of their minds and get obnoxious towards other customers, betting clerks etc...Like every MLB game I've ever been to.When some people see a very attractive women, they may take a quick glance at her (especially the rear view after she walks past :lol: ), but they make a least a bit of an effort to not get caught and make her uncomfortable. Some people will stare, say offensive things, touch her, etc...That's all of L.A., now, except for the really wealthy areas.You see bad behavior everywhere. Unfortunately, too high a percentage of horseplayers fall into the latter category of each. I see it all too often at OTBs, but not as often elsewhere.At the Hillside Ave OTB in Queens there is a homeless guy they call "SUBWAY". He's there almost every day. He spends a few hours each morning in the 179th St "subway" begging for money. When he has enough, he comes upstairs with piles and piles of nickels, dimes, and quarters and starts playing triples and other exotics. As soon as he's broke (and it usually doesn't take long because he plays cold triples, pick3s etc...) he goes back downstairs and begs again until he has enough to make some more bets. He's there all day screaming, yelling, smelling badly and begging. I'm not sure what to call that. I feel terrible every time I see the guy and wish he'd take the money, clean himself up, and get a decent meal. I'd give him money if I knew he would use it to help himself. But no matter what, he and lots of the other customers there make it uncomfortable - even for a guy who has spent most of his life at tracks, OTBs and in seedy pool rooms.This guy sounds as if he has a mental health issue more than one of faulty character. When Reagan initiated the homeless problem here, refugees from mental institutions were everywhere and hitting on school kids. My wife and I decided that we and our offspring would carry McDonalds coupons to spend on them in the store. More often than not, they wouldn't accept the offer.

From my own misguided youth, I can verify that horseplayers don't use foul language or break things as much as pool players. :D

[Robert Fischer]

It is probably best to avoid OTBs that are set up in low-income areas. Especially those with access to walk-in customers.

In other situations a security guard and a policy can go a long way.

[classhandicapper]

When a customer gets too far out of line he will eventually get barred from that OTB. That doesn't stop them from going to another one. I see it all the time.

People that get barred from Richmond Hill go to Crossbay (and vice versa).

People that get barred from Manhattan Ave go to Graham Ave.

People that get barred from any of the Astoria branches go to one ofe the others.

You can find examples of poor hygiene, poor behavior etc... anywhere, but not in the same concentration levels as you see at many OTBs.

[Indulto]

When a customer gets too far out of line he will eventually get barred from that OTB. That doesn't stop them from going to another one. I see it all the time.

People that get barred from Richmond Hill go to Crossbay (and vice versa).

People that get barred from Manhattan Ave go to Graham Ave.

People that get barred from any of the Astoria branches go to one ofe the others.

You can find examples of poor hygiene, poor behavior etc... anywhere, but not in the same concentration levels as you see at many OTBs.What is too far out of line, who makes that determination, and who physically enforces the ban?

Unsightly player weight levels were addressed in an old thread here. Maybe a sniff test for offensive odors under the guise of drug prevention would be more in order than a weigh-in. :jump:

[firstofftheclaim]

The only people that go to OTB's are people born before 1970 and idiots that don't know how to use a computer. Close them all.

[badcompany]

What is too far out of line, who makes that determination, and who physically enforces the ban?



1. Unruly behavior.

2.The manager of the branch who fills out some form.

3. If the customer/lowlife doesn't leave, the manager calls the cops.

[Burls]

The only people that go to OTB's are people born before 1970 and idiots that don't know how to use a computer. Close them all.

I think there's a good point here.
OTBs were only started because the technological infastructure for inhome betting didn't exist yet.
They only stay open because they're there.
Close 'em down and online betting will pick up the slack.
No one's gonna miss 'em except the OTB workers with their cushy union jobs.

[classhandicapper]

What is too far out of line, who makes that determination, and who physically enforces the ban?

Unsightly player weight levels were addressed in an old thread here. Maybe a sniff test for offensive odors under the guise of drug prevention would be more in order than a weigh-in. :jump:

It's subjective. The manager determines what is too far out of line. Often they will cut some slack to regular customers (especially if they are big bettors and tippers ;) ) It is enforced by OTB security and if that doesn't work, the cops.

[badcompany]

I think there's a good point here.
OTBs were only started because the technological infastructure for inhome betting didn't exist yet.
They only stay open because they're there.
Close 'em down and online betting will pick up the slack.
No one's gonna miss 'em except the OTB workers with their cushy union jobs.

I would agree except for one thing. There still isn't a way for a bettor to get all the tracks at home, the way you can at an OTB, or at the track. On a computer you can just get streaming, and that can be slow to load, and you can't see several tracks at the same time. On the OTB channel, you get four tracks at once, but they're constantly switching from one to another, and you never know for sure if you're gonna see your race. Plus, you don't get to see the exacta boards.

What OTB or whoever needs is a dedicated horse racing network with several channels so that players can see all the tracks.

[classhandicapper]

Even though most OTBs are not the kind of place I would like to spend my day off, there's a social aspect to it. A lot of the people there are retired, unemployed, have the day off etc.... Being with other people that share their interest is part of the appeal for them. They could just as easily open OTB phone accounts,stay home, and get track prices. Yet many spend all day in the OTB with their gambling friends instead.

[Monty Capuletti]

I think the Bar/Resteraunt OTB model is great. Wish NYRA could do such a thing themselves. The waste of money leasing those OTB facilities is nuts.

Should be no additional takeout with NYRA Rewards kiosks. Perhaps a OTB style takeout at windows where you can cash as well as deposit/withdraw from NYRA account.

Sure it would never happen...

[Otis11]

On a computer you can just get streaming, and that can be slow to load, and you can't see several tracks at the same time.
FWIW, ADAYATTHETRACK.COM allows you to view four video feeds at once.

[Monty Capuletti]

At the Hillside Ave OTB in Queens there is a homeless guy they call "SUBWAY". He's there almost every day. He spends a few hours each morning in the 179th St "subway" begging for money. When he has enough, he comes upstairs with piles and piles of nickels, dimes, and quarters and starts playing triples and other exotics. As soon as he's broke (and it usually doesn't take long because he plays cold triples, pick3s etc...) he goes back downstairs and begs again until he has enough to make some more bets. He's there all day screaming, yelling, smelling badly and begging. I'm not sure what to call that. I feel terrible every time I see the guy and wish he'd take the money, clean himself up, and get a decent meal. I'd give him money if I knew he would use it to help himself. But no matter what, he and lots of the other customers there make it uncomfortable - even for a guy who has spent most of his life at tracks, OTBs and in seedy pool rooms.

I used to run to Hillside to watch races occasionally (before Austin's in Kew Gardens got OTB). Definitely not a fun place to hang for an extended period of time...

[BlueShoe]

One of the main reasons that sends this player to the track or otb is the social aspect.Have friends and guys that I have known for decades that go there.In the SoCal otb's the bum aspect is mostly absent and not a large factor.However,in 2008 plan to finally enter the world of online account wagering and decrease my old habits.Other conditions at my local joints have decreased my enjoyment during my visits the last couple of years.