CRC to SA ??

[john del riccio]

Did someone install the CRC surface at SA when we weren't looking ?? That place went from running on springs to a plowed field yesterday ??

Cybil lives and breathes in Southern califiornia I suppose....

John

[cj]

John,

For me, this is the scariest part of the synthetics. Humans have way too much control over how the tracks play. Sure, they could influence dirt, but not nearly to the extent they can manipulate the fake stuff.

[john del riccio]

John,

For me, this is the scariest part of the synthetics. Humans have way too much control over how the tracks play. Sure, they could influence dirt, but not nearly to the extent they can manipulate the fake stuff.

CJ,

I sware I thought it was a mistake. I checked BRIS, EQUIBASE, & DRF, the times are correct. I know it was damp, slight rain for one race, somewhat cooler, but its like night & day.....

Thats why we do what we do I guess....

John

[rgustafson]

John,

For me, this is the scariest part of the synthetics. Humans have way too much control over how the tracks play. Sure, they could influence dirt, but not nearly to the extent they can manipulate the fake stuff.

CJ, just curious, any idea what the "humans" did to change the surface so drastically.

Bob

[Tom]

John and CJ.....with all this malarkey going one out there, I would think making variants would be like taking a running bite at a rolling donut. How do you even define the "zero variant" surface to begin with?

[john del riccio]

John and CJ.....with all this malarkey going one out there, I would think making variants would be like taking a running bite at a rolling donut. How do you even define the "zero variant" surface to begin with?

That is hilarious -> "taking a running bite at a rolling donut".

I don't use PAR times which is a great help. Having NO idea what they did is OK as long as you know that "something" was done. This way, you can make sense of the chaos. That track is as wacky as I have ever seen.

John

[cj]

CJ, just curious, any idea what the "humans" did to change the surface so drastically.

Bob

I'm far for a track maintenance expert, but I have read water content changes produce dramatic speed shifts.

[shanta]

I'm far for a track maintenance expert, but I have read water content changes produce dramatic speed shifts.


Very good friend knows and speaks with the maintenance folks up at Woodbine. When they get rain there the track actually gets faster so don't know what the heck is up at SA.

You are 100% right when you write about humans having way too much control over what is going on with the track speeds etc on the fake stuff

[Marshall Bennett]

Just wondering which way they'll rig the track on Breeder's Cup day ??

[rufus999]

It appears to me that the S.CA. tracks are experiencing major issues with heat, humidity, and drainage. GG's poly track seems to run evenly.

rufus

[Robert Goren]

If you follow track bias, you would know all tracks play with their surfaces. My uneducated guess is MNR is the worst even the dead of summer. If it shows a bais of say for inside early speed one day you can be asured that kind of horse has no chance the next. On WV derby week the times speed up alot.

[rufus999]

[QUOTE= My uneducated guess is MNR is the worst even the dead of summer.[/QUOTE]

Mountaineer is the worst excuse for a track on the entire North American continent. I'll play it when its the only game in town at that time of night and I have absolutely nothing else better to do. Funny thing is, as much as I can't stand the place, I continually show a profit. Go figure.
I don't think it makes any difference whether they tamper with that cow pasture or not. I'm happy when anything I back makes it all the way through without dropping dead from exhaustion.:D

rufus

[MooseDog]

Golden Gate's surface is Tapeta, not Polytrack.

It appears to me that the S.CA. tracks are experiencing major issues with heat, humidity, and drainage. GG's poly track seems to run evenly.

[rufus999]

Golden Gate's surface is Tapeta, not Polytrack.

what's the difference?

[MooseDog]

The differences are the way he track "base" is constructed, which is usually some sort of porous gravel, cement, or asphalt, and the general mix of sand, fibers (Tapeta uses ground up tires among other things) and wax which seems to differ from company to company.

Tapeta Footings was created by Michael Dickinson, former trainer, you know the one that brought DaHoss back after 18 months and one prep race to win the Breeders Cup Mile.

He's quit training, and being a perfectionist, is devoting full time to Tapeta. He was here at GGF to supervise the installtion and has been very hands on all through the meet to keep the surface consistent. After a rough start, they got apparently got the mix right on and the racing was fair and the reviews for the surface were very positive all around.

[rufus999]

The differences are the way he track "base" is constructed, which is usually some sort of porous gravel, cement, or asphalt, and the general mix of sand, fibers (Tapeta uses ground up tires among other things) and wax which seems to differ from company to company.



Thanks for the info. I thought they were using the same stuff at SA and Hollywood. Obviously they're not.:)

rufus

[MooseDog]

Yeah, that would really be something...all the CA tracks agreeing to use the same surface. They never agree on anything out here!

Golden Gate -Tapeta
Bay Meadows - dirt
Santa Anita - Cushion Track (will be replaced after this meet)
Hollywood - Cushion Track
Del Mar - Poly Track
Fairs - dirt

[CryingForTheHorses]

Did someone install the CRC surface at SA when we weren't looking ?? That place went from running on springs to a plowed field yesterday ??

Cybil lives and breathes in Southern califiornia I suppose....

John

Hey John,At least the Calder surface can take the heavy rains.I havent seen Calder ever have to cancel except for the hurricanes.Calder horses are tough and can win anywhere in the Country. Maybe the Santa Anita people should come here to maybe get some idea on how to handle their tracks,Sure our times may be slow sometimes but it in no way a "Plowed Field"

[john del riccio]

Hey John,At least the Calder surface can take the heavy rains.I havent seen Calder ever have to cancel except for the hurricanes.Calder horses are tough and can win anywhere in the Country. Maybe the Santa Anita people should come here to maybe get some idea on how to handle their tracks,Sure our times may be slow sometimes but it in no way a "Plowed Field"

Tom,

The "plowed field" comment was tongue & cheek. It was meant to distinguish a slower surface from one loaded with springs (what SA appeared to be looking like until recently). I agree that CRC horses seem to do quite well when shipping to other venues.

John

[Murph]

Hey John,At least the Calder surface can take the heavy rains.I havent seen Calder ever have to cancel except for the hurricanes.Calder horses are tough and can win anywhere in the Country. Maybe the Santa Anita people should come here to maybe get some idea on how to handle their tracks,Sure our times may be slow sometimes but it in no way a "Plowed Field"I think the Calder track surface is one of the most consistent in racing. The races are fun to watch and bet on too, good sized fields, top class summer turf racing, and the FL breeders are producing runners that can get Graded earnings all over North America. The top FL breds don't win at will yet but there's no denying they are tough and versitle.

They are a force to be reckoned with in a way that's totally different than how I used to regard them. 10 or 12 years ago I had a play called "Horsehead". I'd take the track program and cross out any runner who didn't have the KY bred horsehead symbol.

I used to laugh and chortle when I could cross out the FL bred runners when multiple KY breds entered the stakes and open races at CRC. Well I'm not laughing anymore. I credit this factor with ruining a perfectly good method play for me all over the country. I'm pretty safe in suggesting that no one could be more happy about this turn around than the Florida horsemen.

Keep it up, ladies and gentlemen!

Murph

[rrbauer]

There's a simple remedy to the Santa Anita debacle. Don't play that track. I haven't given them a nickel this meet and will not (to their credit they haven't ruined the turf course, however). And, Bay Meadows with their steady diet of 4-, 5- and 6-horse fields leaves Calif with very little to offer these days.

[Marshall Bennett]

Yeah ... ever wonder why they have a pick 6 carryover nearly every day they run there ??

[juanepstein]

so. california weather is so much different then alot of the other tracks that have the synthetic tracks. the long periods of warm sunshine and drastic degrees in temputure on somedays might have a different weathering effect on the wax.

[Marshall Bennett]

^ Just another reason not to use the shit . They say the stuff is safer for the horses . While this may be true it hasn't played out that way of late . Maybe if owners weren't so prone to pump their animals with drugs , and breed them like rabbits , they wouldn't be so fragile in the first place . The value obviously is reflected in the eyes of the betting public . Your average horse pulling a meat wagon in Gabon is more sound ! :cool:

[Tom]

Good point, MArcshall - the sport is killing itself with greed.
The only reason we have drugs and cheating is because everyone wants it.
Racing is not a game nor a sport - it is a dirty business run by incompetants and cheaters.