Joe Takach -- New Book

[PaceAdvantage]

Because Joe has been kind enough to provide access to many articles over the years for the reading room, I thought I'd plug his new book here....

Winning Over Any Polysurface

It is available for an immediate delivery in either a CD or an “e-book” on his website at: http://www.joe-takach.com/Order_Here/order_here.html (http://www.joe-takach.com/Order_Here/order_here.html)

Cost is $39.95 plus $5.00 shipping in either format.

As always with any of our products for the last 20 years at the DAILY SCHTW, we offer a money back guarantee to all buyers with “no questions asked”.

Anyone who orders from Pace Advantage and states so, will get a special bonus subscription of 5 free days to the DAILY SCHTW that can be used for any of our daily or weekly products.

That’s a $75 bonus for a $40 book.

[Tom]

Hey, cool.
PA, you got connections! ;)

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

Looks like a complete waste of money.

[Tom]

Based on what?

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

Based on the fact that poly is so new that nobody could have possibly figured out how to judge the performances of horses on all the different kinds of poly out there. This looks similar to Steven Crist's (I think it was him) book about the top "poly sires".

[banacek]

It is available for an immediate delivery in either a CD or an “e-book” on his website at: http://www.joe-takach.com/Order_Here/order_here.html (http://www.joe-takach.com/Order_Here/order_here.html)

Cost is $39.95 plus $5.00 shipping in either format.

I've got a couple of Joe's books and I enjoyed them, so I might give it a shot - only thing is I have avoided poly as I have no confidence on the stuff, maybe this could help.

One thing ,though, I thought that was a misstatement, but I checked the site and it says the same thing - is there really a 5.00 shipping and handling fee for an ebook?

[misscashalot]

One thing ,though, .... - is there really a 5.00 shipping and handling fee for an ebook?

I read that also and laughed. Talk about a rip-off.

[cj]

Based on the fact that poly is so new that nobody could have possibly figured out how to judge the performances of horses on all the different kinds of poly out there. This looks similar to Steven Crist's (I think it was him) book about the top "poly sires".

I'm sure Crist hasn't written such a book.

As for the differing synthetic surfaces, they pretty much all play the same no matter what name they have. Sure, they aren't identical, but they are much closer to each other than dirt, and also than many dirt to dirt comparisions.

[john del riccio]

I'm sure Crist hasn't written such a book.

As for the differing synthetic surfaces, they pretty much all play the same no matter what name they have. Sure, they aren't identical, but they are much closer to each other than dirt, and also than many dirt to dirt comparisions.

CJ,

You think that KEE, HOL, WO, and AP play similiarly ? I don't agree with this at all. Through DMR in there whose surface seems to be much more sensitive to temperature than the others and its definitely not an apples to apples scenario.

John

[banacek]

I'm sure Crist hasn't written such a book.


He must be thinking of Bill Finley's upcoming book:


http://www.amazon.com/Betting-Synthetic-Surfaces-Conquering-Frontier/dp/1932910824/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203706524&sr=1-1

[Gibbon]

Perhaps you’re referring to different physical {unusual} characteristics of some dirt tracks. Or, winterized dirt tracks. Otherwise dirt is dirt.








_______________________
In most betting shops you will see three windows marked "Bet Here," but only one window with the legend "Pay Out." ~ Jeffrey Bernard

[Tom]

There is plenty of info our there on poly. There was last year.
I've been playing it since 2005 Turfway.

[Premier Turf Club]

Takach is the best. Been a fan of his since way back in his Philly Park days. There is no one that does what he is doing to sell to the public. :ThmbUp:

[46zilzal]

CJ,

You think that KEE, HOL, WO, and AP play similiarly ? I don't agree with this at all.
They are not even close. Woodbine is still quick and KEENELAND i.......s........v......e......r........y......... S....L.....O........W

[cj]

They are not even close. Woodbine is still quick and KEENELAND i.......s........v......e......r........y......... S....L.....O........W

Actual final times mean nothing. It is the style needed to win that is similar. I've seen speed biases on tracks where horses couldn't crack 1:14 for 6f, and I saw days at the incredibly fast SA Cushion oval where speed was a detriment.

All of them are much less friendly to early speed than your normal dirt track. Not only do you have to be positioned further back, you have to be running slower to the pace call while doing it.

The further the race, the more pronounced it is, very similar to turf.

Here is a little study. These are very similar to the Klein bias ratings that Steve Klein discussed in his book. The measure how important it is to be positioned near the front to win. A 300 means every winner was leading at the 1st call, a 0 means every winner was in the rear of the field at the 1st call. I would never claim that these tell the whole story, but here are the averages for 2007:

FER 200
GRP 194
CNL 188
MD 172
ELP 168
LNN 168
GLD 166
YAV 164
BM 163
BOI 161
CLS 161
RD 158
HOO 157
AQUi 157
MAN 156
FP 155
PEN 151
STP 151
FMT 150
PM 150
FPX 149
WRD 149
EMD 148
EVD 148
LAD 148
FNO 148
BEU 146
CRC 146
TUP 146
MED 145
HST 145
TIM 145
DEL 145
RUI 144
SOL 144
NP 144
MTH 144
AQU 144
CBY 144
MNR 143
BEL 143
HOU 143
FL 142
GP 142
PLN 142
ATO 141
SUF 141
ASD 140
TDN 138
PHA 138
SAR 138
HAW 138
OP 137
DED 137
LRL 137
LS 137
RET 137
HPO 136
ALB 136
CT 136
FON 135
SRP 134
GG-d 132
SR 132
CD 131
FE 131
WDS 130
PIM 130
FG 130
SUN 128
TAM 126
PRM 125
TP 122
ZIA 122
RP 122
PID 121
SA-d 120
OTC 120
SA 120
ARP 119
STK 119
AP 117
IND 117
WO 112
GG 110
HOL 109
DMR 109
KEE 95
BRD 67

Avg 139

DRT 142
SYN 112


Notice ALL of the blue tracks (synthetics) clustered together. BRD, at the bottom, only had one or two days with enough races to qualify for a rating.

Clearly, positionally, horses must stay further back to win. It is very late here, and I'm tired, but tomorrow I'll post what has happened fractionally at these tracks (again). There is little doubt horses must a) run slower early and b) come from further back in the field. Despite wildly varying final times, energy wise, or fractionally, or median wise, or whatever you want to call it, there is little difference between them.

[bigmack]

similar to the Klein bias ratings that Steve Klein discussed in his book. The measure how important it is to be positioned near the front to win. A 300 means every winner was leading at the 1st call, a 0 means every winner was in the rear of the field at the 1st call.
While some might accuse Klein of lacking sophistication in his calculations, they still hold H2O and it's a sound book to absorb.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/klein.jpg

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

He must be thinking of Bill Finley's upcoming book:


http://www.amazon.com/Betting-Synthetic-Surfaces-Conquering-Frontier/dp/1932910824/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203706524&sr=1-1

This isn't it; it was a book about "polytrack sires" and was advertised in DRF. As I previously stated, I think, but am not sure, that it was by Crist.

[the little guy]

This isn't it; it was a book about "polytrack sires" and was advertised in DRF. As I previously stated, I think, but am not sure, that it was by Crist.


And, once again, I am sure Crist never wrote anything of the kind nor will he.

[cj]

While some might accuse Klein of lacking sophistication in his calculations, they still hold H2O and it's a sound book to absorb.



Those dealt with position, as I'm sure you know. Here are some results that deal with velocity:

http://www.pacefigures.com/synthetics (http://www.pacefigures.com/synthetics.html)

Clearly, while some tracks aren't as extreme as others, they all show the same basic tendencies.

[Tom]

He has revised the ratings and now sells them on the web.
I bought a few cards for a looksee, I think worth the dough if you don't have access to better or time to make your own.

https://powerofearlyspeed.com/


Back on topic - I'm getting Joe's book this weekend - will post a review.

[Houndog]

Those dealt with position, as I'm sure you know. Here are some results that deal with velocity:

http://www.pacefigures.com/synthetics (http://www.pacefigures.com/synthetics.html)

Clearly, while some tracks aren't as extreme as others, they all show the same basic tendencies.

CJ, looking at Keeneland in the routes it is REALLY EXTREME

I remember keeping a Track Profile for Keeneland routes and it seemed backwards. The latter fractions were being run quicker than the earlier fractions.

[cj]

CJ, looking at Keeneland in the routes it is REALLY EXTREME

I remember keeping a Track Profile for Keeneland routes and it seemed backwards. The latter fractions were being run quicker than the earlier fractions.

Yes, but if you read the bottom of what I wrote on the page, you will see Keeneland did other work on the track in addition to the new surface that caused some of the difference.

[Dan Montilion]

Has anybody actually read Winning Over Any Polysurface?

[banacek]

Has anybody actually read Winning Over Any Polysurface?

Not yet, I probably will when they remove the $5 shipping/handling for an ebook.:lol:

[BW~!]

Tom,

How was the book?

[Tom]

Ooops.
Never ordered it!
Doing so now........:rolleyes:

[riskman]

Based on the fact that poly is so new that nobody could have possibly figured out how to judge the performances of horses on all the different kinds of poly out there. This looks similar to Steven Crist's (I think it was him) book about the top "poly sires".


Info now being tracked by www.breedingwinners.com


Polytrack Sire Wins (updated 02/24/2008)
Arlington Park
Del Mar
Keenland
Turfway


Cushiontrack Sire Wins (updated 02/24/2008)
Hollywood
Santa Anita


Tapeta Footings Sire Wins (updated 02/24/2008)
Golden Gate
Presque Isle Downs

[Tom]

I ordered the book tonight and it came in email.
226 pages, so lots of stuff in it.

Some of the chapters:

Track-specific breeding
Running Profiles
Running Biases
Turf to Poly
Prior WO or Race over poly befreo winning over it
PP wins by distance
Race Day physicality and poly
3yos vs Older
Trainer/Jockey combos by race classification
Shippers
Winning Maiden Claimers dropping from MSW
Winning FTS by trainer for 2yos and 3yos and up
Seting up Your own polytrack report