Recovery from being GELDED (ouch)

[RonTiller]

This is an open question to anybody who has worked with horses, trained horses or owned horses.

What's the typical down time for a horse after being gelded. Is this something you can do on a Monday and then race them on Friday? Or do they need a couple weeks or a couple months recovery time before racing? Or are there non-medical reasons you might want to give them a break in their racing schedules?

I ask because many of the horses we show as changing to a gelding since their last race have medium to very long layoffs, but some of them show as little as a week between racing as a colt and then racing as a gelding. I suspect that these horses were reported at that time to the Jockey Club as being geldings but that they were actually gelded several or more races back. I'm guessing that the reporting of this procedure to the Jockey Club in a timely manner may be (to put it delicately) less than optimal. I'm told that the Jockey Club is attempting to make reporting of this as easy as possible but in the end its only as good as those doing the reporting make it.

Ron Tiller
HDW

[MakinItHappen]

Recently Gelded... The ULTIMATE Equipment Change! :lol:

Best of Luck Today Everyone!

MakinItHappen

[magwell]

six weeks

[onefast99]

The horse needs to go right back to the track to jog to keep the drainage going or an infection may result and you dont want to deal with that. We have had several who went right back a day later after having the procedure done at an equine clinic laying down under anesthesia. None of them raced for about 3 weeks since the castration but I have heard of horses coming back after just 2 weeks and running.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Is chemical castration ever done?

[onefast99]

Is chemical castration ever done?
What is that?

[JustRalph]

What is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration

[JustRalph]

Lazy Horses........... I went back to work in three days.............

How they get that frozen pack of peas to stick to a horse......... I don't know :lol:

[point given]

This is an open question to anybody who has worked with horses, trained horses or owned horses.

What's the typical down time for a horse after being gelded. Is this something you can do on a Monday and then race them on Friday? Or do they need a couple weeks or a couple months recovery time before racing? Or are there non-medical reasons you might want to give them a break in their racing schedules?

I ask because many of the horses we show as changing to a gelding since their last race have medium to very long layoffs, but some of them show as little as a week between racing as a colt and then racing as a gelding. I suspect that these horses were reported at that time to the Jockey Club as being geldings but that they were actually gelded several or more races back. I'm guessing that the reporting of this procedure to the Jockey Club in a timely manner may be (to put it delicately) less than optimal. I'm told that the Jockey Club is attempting to make reporting of this as easy as possible but in the end its only as good as those doing the reporting make it.

Ron Tiller
HDW


This is always a bone of contention when, just before a race ( and sometimes not) the track announcer comes on the PA system and announces for the first time ,that a horse has been gelded since its last start. What a joke . Anyone betting horizontal bets , surely could have used this information when they formulated and put in their bets earlier. The data providers could also use a designation for 1st time gelding in their output. This really seems such a simple problem to fix. If a horse doesnot have the designation in the program , then the horse is an automatic scratch from the race. As many others on this list have opined; there have been many changes over the years to racing. The rules and regualtions need to address these changes in an honest and seamless manner to provide customers with factually correct information on which to make an informed wager. The data providers and drf are put out 2-3 days before race day, not like the old days where you picked up your drf at the corner stand or store that morning, there was no lasix in NY, no nasal patches, cornell collars , turn downs, etc. (plus the drugs). But Gelding, I'd venture a guess that it is nothing new. Why this cannot be designated in a timely manner, when the horse doesnot usually run back for 2-3 weeks is ridiculous.

[onefast99]

I dont think it is too difficult for the vet to simply input the information to drf thru an email so they know the horse is now gelded.

[northerndancer]

I am sorry when did it become my responsibility to inform horse players what has been done with my horses between starts...... rules of racing state that the trainer must report the change to gelding at the time of entry........ now if you wanted to speak about information such as horses who are on the starters list or bleeders that is information that is readily available in the race office that should be made public on a daily basis......

[onefast99]

I am sorry when did it become my responsibility to inform horse players what has been done with my horses between starts...... rules of racing state that the trainer must report the change to gelding at the time of entry........ now if you wanted to speak about information such as horses who are on the starters list or bleeders that is information that is readily available in the race office that should be made public on a daily basis......
The vet group that did our horses is one of NJ's top groups. Shouldnt they be responsible for at least letting the racing secretary know or someone else in the racing office? How many times at Mth Park does the announcer tell you 15 mins prior to post time the horse has been gelded! As far as bleeders go or horses on the vets list that info should be posted outside the racing office on a daily basis and on the tracks website also. Good point Northerndancer.

[Marshall Bennett]

I WOULD HAVE NEVER STOPPED RUNNING !!!! :D

[point given]

I am sorry when did it become my responsibility to inform horse players what has been done with my horses between starts...... rules of racing state that the trainer must report the change to gelding at the time of entry........ now if you wanted to speak about information such as horses who are on the starters list or bleeders that is information that is readily available in the race office that should be made public on a daily basis......

Thanks for quoting the Rules of Racing on new geldings. " AT TIME OF ENTRY."

Now assuming that it is 2-3 weeks between gelding and starting, it would seem reasonable to me, that a NEW RULE be instituted to replace the OLD useless rule. New Geldings will be reported to Equibase and all other data providers and racetrack racing offices where the horse is to be entered. The vet performing said procedure, shall file/fax, email , a form stipulating this fact within 72 hours of the procedure. This could also be written for a myectomy ( to correct for possible flipping of the palate).
The times are a changin' , and if racing doesn't straighten itself out as far as this stuff and drugs, then they will have only themselves to blame as more customers walk away from the game. Just IMHO .

[RonTiller]

This is my interest in the topic: I want 1st race after gelding identified. Here is what I've discovered after some research.

I dont think it is too difficult for the vet to simply input the information to drf thru an email so they know the horse is now gelded.
The DRF is NOT the gatekeeper for this information; they are a newspaper and handicapping information provider. The Jockey Club is the official registry of record for thoroughbreds. Section V, Article 17 of The American Stud Book Principal Rules and Requirements , available at http://www.jockeyclub.com/registry.asp?section=3#seventeen, states:
17. GELDING REPORTS

If a Colt or Horse has been gelded, the owner or his authorized agent should promptly report that information to The Jockey Club Office by submitting a completed Gelding Report or by furnishing the information through registry.jockeyclub.com. Additionally, The Jockey Club will accept gelding reports from a racetrack recognized by The Jockey Club.
Now I can't say what force this "should promptly report" has. State regulations vary, as usual. I looked up 2 states: California and Kentucky. First California - http://www.chrb.ca.gov/query_rules_and_regulations_database.asp?form_quer y_action=display_rule&form_query_rule_number=1865&form_query_rule_title=Altering+of+Sex+of+Horse%2E&form_query_article=Altering+of+Sex+of+Horse%2E&form_query_article_index=17&form_query_argument=1865
A partial quote:
Any alteration to the sex of a horse from the sex as recorded on the Certificate of Foal Registration or the Eligibility Certificate or other official registration certificate of such horse shall be reported to the Racing Secretary and the Official Horse Identifier if such horse is registered to race at any race meeting. (a) Should the gelding or castration of a race horse be performed on the premises of a licensed racing association, the trainer shall report the same within 72 hours. (b) Should the gelding or castration of a race horse be performed off the premises of a licensed racing association and the horse has been previously registered to race at any race meeting in this State, the owner and/or trainer shall report the same at the time the horse is next registered to race.
In California at least, its pretty explicitly spelled out when the racing office is to be notified of a horse being gelded. In Kentucky, we're back to that pesky word "promptly" again. http://www.lrc.ky.gov/kar/810/001/012.htm
Section 11. Sex Alteration. Any alteration in the sex of a horse shall be reported by the horse's trainer to the racing secretary promptly. The racing secretary shall note any alteration in the sex of a horse on the horse's registration certificate.

Since the Jockey Club web site states that they will accept gelding reports from "a racetrack recognized by The Jockey Club", I'm assuming that the racing secretary's office submits at least some of these gelding reports from information the trainers are required by law (at least in some states) to report to the track. I'm also assuming that individual owners and trainers can log into the Jockey Club registry on line and make the change themselves.

Once the Jockey Club has the new gelding status reported to them (presumably either by the owner, trainer or racing secretary's office), it gets reported to Equibase as a sex change to gelding and Equibase updates their databases. The next time the horse runs, the DRF, BRIS, HDW et al. print the sex of the horse as whatever Equibase has at the time. There is no DATE GELDED data anywhere that I can find,
The data providers could also use a designation for 1st time gelding in their output. This really seems such a simple problem to fix.
Yes and no. I have the official sex of record for each horses' starts going back years and I can easily compare today's reported sex versus the last race reported sex, note a change to G and voila - 1st race as a gelding. The DRF, HDW, BRIS et al. have no control over the accuracy of this reported sex information, and frankly, it doesn't seem that Equibase does either. The information is only as accurate and timely as the information reported to the Jockey Club, the official registry. I have no way of knowing whether 80% or 99% or 10% of the geldings are "promptly" reported.

Hence, my original question. When I see a horse that has changed sex since his last race 10 days ago, it this more likely a) a horse that was gelded in the last 10 days or b) a horse that was just reported as a gelding in the last 10 days but was not reported "promptly" per regulations/guidelines. From the responses, I'm guessing more that likely, the horse was not gelded in the last 10 days. Or maybe he was. I'm back to where I started. Sigh...

Ron Tiller
HDW

[stuball]

If the horse had done more running before gelding he might
not have to be gelded....Right?

Hmmmmmm

:lol: :lol: Stuball

[Dan Montilion]

Recovery from being GELDED (ouch)... I would argue NEVER!

[northerndancer]

Again I will state would it not be more beneficial to know which horses have been put on starters lists, bleeder lists or have been nerved more so than whether a horse is now a gelding....... does it matter yes..... the Jockey Club has no authority over this matter........ it is the racing jurisdiction that has the authority over this and there is not a snowballs chance in hell that the racing association would levy fines or not allow the horse to be raced with the small fields that they face........ Maryland now states on their overnight trainers stabled in Maryland are expected to run in Maryland if you ship your horse out to run outside of Maryland you will not have a stall for this horse to come back to...... so know the owner will need to check on every single medication the horse has received make sure that the horse is not be given any steroids as well as HGH, make sure that gelded reports are turned in, double check the trainer to determine that he is not over billing or billing for horses that he does not own, check the vet bill to make sure that every charge is accurate and that the trainers horses are not being charged to the owner, muck the stalls, wash out the feed tubs, cool out the horse, decide on the rider and give him instructions and lose his money......... hmmmmm the more I look at this got to wonder why I have a stable of 30 head.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"a bone of contention" LOL!!