McCain throws bone to neocons

[ljb]

Well this should bring joy to some here.
McCain voted against the senate bill banning waterboarding and other forms of torture.
This of course is a flip/flop from his previous opinion on torture, but the neocons should fall for it. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Lefty]

And of course, you, lbj, have decided waterboarding is torture even though we put our own people through it as a training exercise.

[GaryG]

I'd like to see waterboarding added to the X Games....

[JustRalph]

I'd like to see waterboarding added to the X Games....
:lol: :lol:

[ljb]

And of course, you, lbj, have decided waterboarding is torture even though we put our own people through it as a training exercise.
No Lefty,
It wasn't me it was our own military. spin, spin, spin

[Lefty]

LBJ, aRE YOU TELLING ME THAT THE MAJORITY OF OUR MILITARY BELIEVES WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE? Caps were inadvertent, sorry.

[Tom]

Let's see, we used it three times, prevented a massive terror attack, no one was hurt or killed, so of course we should not use it ever again. How do libs remember to eat----talk about stupidity.

Hell, I'll go for trying out waterboarding at Toga this year - sounds like a good way to cool off at night. How about Budboarding? :lol:

[ljb]

LBJ, aRE YOU TELLING ME THAT THE MAJORITY OF OUR MILITARY BELIEVES WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE? Caps were inadvertent, sorry.
Sorry Lefty,
I cannot speak for the majority of our military. I was referring to the standards that McCain used to go by prior to his fllip/flop.

[rastajenk]

The whole torture/waterboarding thing is among the most demagogic ploys out there. The CIA and the millitary are dealing with thugs and criminals of the lowest nature, so no matter what party holds the White House, no matter what the Senate says, the rough handling of rough customers is going to go on. If a Dem (either one) rolls to victory in November, the CIA will continue to use methods that offend a normal person's sensibilities, but that's its job. If cases of "torture" are somehow uncovered, and reported, during a Dem administration, there won't be much political capital for Republicans to say, "See, you guys do it too!" if it means stopping the activity and the flow of information derived from it.

In other words, those who think they are taking the high road by supporting bans on waterboarding and the micromanagement of intelligence activities will allow themselves to be blissfully deluded during a Democratic administration, and will only revisit the issue the next time a Republican is in charge. Kind of like homelessness: it's only an issue when it's convenient.

[ljb]

Rast,
You are probably right, however this thread is about McCain's flip/flopping on the issue. Many here have either on purpose or from lack of understanding, tried to spin off the topic.

[Light]

Waterboarding was used extensively in Cambodia's prisons during the Khmer Rouge which killed an estimated 1.5 million people under its regime with execution,starvation and forced labor.McCain's alignment with this policy will seal his fate.

[Lefty]

Sorry Lefty,
I cannot speak for the majority of our military. I was referring to the standards that McCain used to go by prior to his fllip/flop.
lbj, you're flippi and floppin. You didn't say M'Cain, you said the Military. Words mean things, so hafta hold you to your orig thght. If you can't speak for the majority of military, then why did you? I remindyou, we subject our own troops to waterboarding as a training exercise.

[samyn on the green]

It is just announced that there will be compulsory waterboarding at the Saratoga Paceadvantage getaway. All cappers who lose their bets will be subject to three minutes on the waterboard. We will be using 100% spring water from the Saratoga sulphuric springs. I'm sure this will be no big deal for those that are strapped down and doused.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/Waterboard3-small.jpg

[ljb]

lbj, you're flippi and floppin. You didn't say M'Cain, you said the Military. Words mean things, so hafta hold you to your orig thght. If you can't speak for the majority of military, then why did you? I remindyou, we subject our own troops to waterboarding as a training exercise.
Lefty,
Sorry you will never make a bill O'Lielly. McCain originally said he would not support torture, he said the standards set by the military were his standards.
QUIT ! Trying to put words in my mouth or I will be forced to put you on iggy.
ps This is not about waterboarding, it is about McCain's pandering to the right and flip/flopping on this issue.

[Lefty]

lbj, You say things in print then try to deny them. Pretty silly, boy. You said the military was against waterboarding and i hold you to it. Read your own post and it doesn't say M'cain it says military. There ya go. Do you even know how may times we've used water boarding since 9-11? Hmmm?

[ljb]

Lefty,
Try to get back on track. This is about McCain's torture vote. Stay focused if you can.

[Lefty]

I responded to you using the word torture. Then you said the military was against it and now trying to say you didn't say it. It's in print, buddy boy. Own up to it. I guess those leftwing blogs tell you to stick by your guns, even when you're cght redhanded. I challenged you and your words lbj, but you're in a corner with nowhere to go, except to to say the silly things you keep saying.

[Tom]

Lefty - you caught him in yet another lie and now he tries to change the subject.

Remember, when you talk to a parrot, you have to talk slow and repeat yourself several times. It's not like any response comes from the parrot - it is just your words regurgitated.

[Lefty]

Tom, right you are. So, that's what lbj looks like?

[Snag]

. How about Budboarding? :lol:

As long as it's Bud Select Tom.......... You sure don't want to many calories to get in their system.................:lol:

[JustRalph]

This is such bullshit. Go ahead, outlaw waterboarding. We use several other techniques that are much more painful and leave lasting damage. Fine with me. It just means that we have to jump thru a few more hoops to get the job done.

If they want to outlaw something.........they should start with some of the stuff we do with ear drums..............it is amazing what pain you can cause without leaving any evidence at all...........

[PaceAdvantage]

McCain's alignment with this policy will seal his fate.Should we hold you to this?

As it looks right now, you're pinning your hopes on one Barrack Hussein Obama.

Very shaky ground there....in my opinion.

Barrack is 99% hype, and as we approach November, he will be seriously exposed. In fact, it is my belief (and I know virtually nobody will agree with me on this), that if George W. Bush were allowed to run for a third term, he would BEAT Barry O. in the general election....that's how weak Obama is as a general election candidate.

But go ahead, make him the Democratic candidate. Dems are well known for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[DanG]

In fact, it is my belief (and I know virtually nobody will agree with me on this), that if George W. Bush were allowed to run for a third term, he would BEAT Barry O. in the general election....that's how weak Obama is as a general election candidate.

Now Mike;

You do know just what buttons to push to get the world typing. You would have made a great moderator in debate class to get the ball rolling.

I’m not even in the same area code with the Obama bandwagon. I thought Mark [Mountainman] summed it up best when he said it was time for the man to define his positions instead of those terminal bumper sicker phrases of…”Change” etc…I smell the same reckless spending we’ve recently endured, just from a completely different ideology.

However; if a 3rd term was allowed (and if George Washington had agreed to serve it probably would be) I would mortgage my house, my neighbor’s boat and my great uncles ‘craftmatic bed that our current President couldn’t beat Pat Paulsen at this point.

“My left blank for a viable 3rd party” :ThmbUp:

[ljb]

Does anyone here want to comment on McCain's pandering to the right ? Which by the way is the topic of this thread. :rolleyes:
Seems old John's straight talk express has been derailed. :D

[rastajenk]

OK, I'll bite. :D I'm outraged that a politician would alter his position to merely pander to a large voting bloc. :liar: It's unseemly, irrational, and indefensible; how could I ever trust a guy like McCain ever again? What's the world coming to? Nobody I ever voted for ever acted that way. I might as well just stay at home election day.

[Tom]

That is why we call him a liberal - he acts like one.
What is Hillary's position on anyting? Depend on her audience.
Obama's? The writer's just came off strike - he hasn't seen the script yet.:lol:
But htis bill gives you a good idea who he is.....JASLLTPMP!:bang:

[riskman]

When seventy percent of the country is upset with the current administration and wants the troops to come home, there's little chance that a "Bush third term"(McCain) is going to win against the Clinton machine. The very first attack ad would be to quote McCain's "let's stay in Iraq for another hundred years" line, followed by "do the American people really want this kind of warmonger in the Oval Office?" Hillary would beat McCain in a landslide proportions unless Barry "the change maker" is the nominee. I would think the GOP would be dancing in the streets if Barry gets the nod.

[JustMissed]

In fact, it is my belief (and I know virtually nobody will agree with me on this), that if George W. Bush were allowed to run for a third term, he would BEAT Barry O. in the general election....that's how weak Obama is as a general election candidate.

But go ahead, make him the Democratic candidate. Dems are well known for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Mike, Your political savy is always so much on point.

Just like your defense of your pal Rudy. :D

Maybe you could post some more photos of Obama's "Nana" in an effort to move your agenda along?

JM

[JustRalph]

When seventy percent of the country is upset with the current administration and wants the troops to come home, there's little chance that a "Bush third term"(McCain) is going to win against the Clinton machine. The very first attack ad would be to quote McCain's "let's stay in Iraq for another hundred years" line, followed by "do the American people really want this kind of warmonger in the Oval Office?" Hillary would beat McCain in a landslide proportions unless Barry "the change maker" is the nominee. I would think the GOP would be dancing in the streets if Barry gets the nod.

I am willing to accept that 70 percent of Americans are wrong. Line up any ten people I know and I don't' think more than 3 out of ten are even up to date on the current facts involved in the war. They sure as hell aren't politically astute enough to make a decision on when to pull out.

As long as they allow crack dealers in Cleveland to collect their carton of cigarettes and ride the Dem bus to the polls and vote............ I will feel this way. The fact that these ignorant assholes get a vote that counts as much as mine..............is the real election fraud perpetrated on the country. Nothing that Diebold does could equal the lunacy that is our current qualification system to vote. And the Dems are fighting all the way to Supreme Court to stop a person from having to present a valid I.D. when voting. Common sense has gone the way of the Dinosaur

[46zilzal]

I am willing to accept that 70 percent of Americans are wrong. Line up any ten people I know and I don't' think more than 3 out of ten are even up to date on the current facts involved in the war. They sure as hell aren't politically astute enough to make a decision on when to pull out.

As long as they allow crack dealers in Cleveland to collect their carton of cigarettes and ride the Dem bus to the polls and vote............ I will feel this way. The fact that these ignorant assholes get a vote that counts as much as mine..............is the real election fraud perpetrated on the country. Nothing that Diebold does could equal the lunacy that is our current qualification system to vote.

Democracy bothers a lot of folks doesn't it? as long as the "right" ones vote it's okay. EVERYONE is allowed to who meets the requirements....But then those "foreign looking" people are voting too!! Wow can't have that except that a few generations back WE were those foreign people.......Funny stuff.

70%!! more funny stuff.

[ljb]

I am willing to accept that 70 percent of Americans are wrong. Line up any ten people I know and I don't' think more than 3 out of ten are even up to date on the current facts involved in the war. They sure as hell aren't politically astute enough to make a decision on when to pull out.

As long as they allow crack dealers in Cleveland to collect their carton of cigarettes and ride the Dem bus to the polls and vote............ I will feel this way. The fact that these ignorant assholes get a vote that counts as much as mine..............is the real election fraud perpetrated on the country. Nothing that Diebold does could equal the lunacy that is our current qualification system to vote. And the Dems are fighting all the way to Supreme Court to stop a person from having to present a valid I.D. when voting. Common sense has gone the way of the Dinosaur
Ralph,
Bigotry is unbecoming of you. You really should exercise some control. And who the hell ever said blacks and women could vote. Damn libs.

[Lefty]

lbj, please explain what hell is bigoted about JR's common sense post.

[JustRalph]

Democracy bothers a lot of folks doesn't it? as long as the "right" ones vote it's okay. EVERYONE is allowed to who meets the requirements....But then those "foreign looking" people are voting too!! Wow can't have that except that a few generations back WE were those foreign people.......Funny stuff.

70%!! more funny stuff.

you wanna show me where I said anything about "foreign looking people" You are an out of touch liberal with grandiose ideas about what the world is like. You really think that I care what color somebody is? I care if they have a brain, follow the rules and are informed enough about the issues. If they don't fit that criteria, they shouldn't get the same vote that those who are informed do. We require a drivers test but no test at all for exercising a right to vote.

I said Crack Dealers. How about those 18k convicted felons that the Dems tried to get to vote in Florida in 2000? They even registered felons in prison if they thought they would be out in time for the election. Personally I think there are certain felony convictions where you shouldn't lose your right to vote. But until somebody comes up with a system to enforce the rules equally..........we are stuck with what we have now.

You and LJB can accuse me of being a racist etc. You are wrong. I am a realist. The Democrats of the 60's doomed blacks to a perpetual blacklist and sub culture status. We are in our 3rd and fourth generation of that sub culture and it is more ingrained than ever. The resulting effect is that blacks and the plight of blacks has become a ubiquitous afterthought for 99% of Americans. The so called black leaders have become shrieking useful idiots who are ignored like so many gunshots in the night. They're heard but ignored. While their constituency crumbles around them, they can't see the enemy within. Most of the cities in America that have large black populations have gone through multiple black and Democratic Administrations. The proof is in the pudding. The situation is dire. Blacks continue to fall and fail more than ever. Those who have tried to make true and honest change are run out on a rail. So, nobody cares anymore. The ship has sailed. The plight of the black American is just another story on the evening news. Click! America moves on.

It takes an extraordinary person to escape the plight of black America. I know. My wife and I work with her employees and witness this often. I have personally sat down and counseled young black men on how to negotiate their problems. From drivers license law to court rules and regulations. I have been down this road (and recently I might add) with young black men and women. There are success stories that we are very proud of. My wife gets much more credit than I do. But she has been a mentor to many of her employees. Taking some of them from dishwasher jobs making 7 dollars an hour to 60k plus management jobs. The success rate is low due to the cultural block perpetrated upon these minority groups. Many are treated with disdain for trying to better themselves. They are slowly beaten into submission by their environment. They are victims of their own surroundings and the beliefs of others. Including family members who sabotage their efforts. It is amazing the things that are said and done to avoid success by some people.

Don't figure me for a racist. I am a realist. I see what is going on in the world from the ground up most times. My wife has averaged about 100-160 employees in her job over the last twenty years and we have always gone out of our way to help them and mentor them. Many of them minorities. You still seem to forget that you really don't know me.

[Tom]

lbj, please explain what hell is bigoted about JR's common sense post.

Lefty, Lefty,Lefty.....how could you have forgotten that in the last election, ljb drove one of those busses and handed out those cigarettes! Then was off the board for three months while he tried to drive back home going only through blue counties! :lol::lol::lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe you could post some more photos of Obama's "Nana" in an effort to move your agenda along?

JMWhich one?

I feel particularly bad for his maternal grandmother, Madelyn Dunham (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/14/politics/main2567770.shtml), who seems to be glaringly missing from the campaign trail spotlight. She is refusing to give interviews, citing poor health. I hope this isn't a ruse to keep her out of sight, because photo ops of Obama and his white grandmama might not be what the Obama camp wants, at this point in time. And the following picture is very telling. Published 8/16/06 with an article about a trip to Kenya in 2004, in the Chicago Suntimes (http://www.suntimes.com/special_sections/obama/32634,CST-NWS-obama18.article), there's a picture (at least for now) of "Obama with his grandmother Madelyn Dunham." I'm not sure whether it was a Sun Times gaffe or not, but it is surprising that none of Obama's people have asked for it to be removed or addressed the issue, considering the photo was supplied by the Obama family.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_jizSXMd6Xk4/RhCMGWdtGZI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/5dYH4bQiyD8/s320/20060817_20_03_22_6_h%3D282%26w%3D400.jpg (http://bp0.blogger.com/_jizSXMd6Xk4/RhCMGWdtGZI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/5dYH4bQiyD8/s1600-h/20060817_20_03_22_6_h%3D282%26w%3D400.jpg)

"Barack Obama with his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, in Africa in 2004. Courtesy of the Obama family"




Below is the real granny Dunham with grandpa Stanley.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_jizSXMd6Xk4/RhCMgmdtGbI/AAAAAAAAAKE/yPvkPjNOKPA/s320/Obama+and+grandma.courtesy+Maya+Soetoro-Ng.jpg (http://bp1.blogger.com/_jizSXMd6Xk4/RhCMgmdtGbI/AAAAAAAAAKE/yPvkPjNOKPA/s1600-h/Obama+and+grandma.courtesy+Maya+Soetoro-Ng.jpg)

The above was supplied by this link:

http://republicaninthearts.blogspot.com/2007/04/will-real-barack-hussein-obama-please.html

And unlike you, I have no agenda....just a sense of humor....

[Secretariat]

It appears John McAngry may have thrown a bone or two other places.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us/politics/21mccain.html?_r=2&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

"For McCain, Self-Confidence on Ethics Poses Its Own Risk
By JIM RUTENBERG, MARILYN W. THOMPSON, DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and STEPHEN LABATON

WASHINGTON — Early in Senator John McCain’s first run for the White House eight years ago, waves of anxiety swept through his small circle of advisers.

A female lobbyist had been turning up with him at fund-raisers, visiting his offices and accompanying him on a client’s corporate jet. Convinced the relationship had become romantic, some of his top advisers intervened to protect the candidate from himself — instructing staff members to block the woman’s access, privately warning her away and repeatedly confronting him, several people involved in the campaign said on the condition of anonymity."

.................................................. .................................................. .

“The conservative movement has been hijacked and turned into a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology, which is not the conservative movement I grew up with.”

Pat Buchanan, NY Times, Sept. 8, 2002

[bigmack]

“The conservative movement has been hijacked and turned into a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology, which is not the conservative movement I grew up with.”
I'll bite.

What's with the Patrick B quote, Sec?

[Lefty]

Well, sec, the liberal smearmachine has begun its dirty tricks for the next election. The N.Y. Pravada has warmed up a 20 yr old story that's full of inuendo and no facts. M'Cain was fully investigated 20 yrs ago by Bob Bennet and found to be totally without guilt in these matters.

[PaceAdvantage]

Convinced the relationship had become romantic....Sounds convincing to me......:rolleyes:

Like I said, if this is all they have, Obama is in big time trouble....

[Tom]

Ah, Sec, now a reduced to a drive-by poster, reaches to the bottom of the barrel once again. Careful you don't grab Hillary down there. :rolleyes:

[lsbets]

I might be mistaken, but hasn't Sec whined in the past about the rumors that were spread about McCain and a black baby in 2000 when McCain was every Dems favorite Rep? Now that McCain will be the Rep nominee he's posting links to rumors printed in the NY Times. Typical for him.

[ljb]

This 71 year old with a 40 year old ? You guys may have to change his name from John McCan't to John McStillCan. :lol:
And here I always thought Republicans, with their passion for guns and desire to kill anyone they disagree with, were impotent. Who woulda thunk? :lol:

[Marshall Bennett]

:D Consider the source here first . The NY Times is only an larger version of the National Enquire . Need one look further ? Looks as if their trying to set the tone for a Summer / Fall smear campaign ... like no one saw it coming . :cool:

[Secretariat]

I might be mistaken, but hasn't Sec whined in the past about the rumors that were spread about McCain and a black baby in 2000 when McCain was every Dems favorite Rep? Now that McCain will be the Rep nominee he's posting links to rumors printed in the NY Times. Typical for him.

You're right about one thing. You are mistaken again. I'd never heard anything about McCain and a black baby. Frankly, I could care less. I'm more interested in his ethics,than his extramarital affairs which he has admitted to. It's not that long ago McCain was am ember of the Keating Five. If he's riding lobbyists private jets, and doing favors for lobbyists it smells of hypocrisy from his actual messages.

Here's a little info on McCain's past regarding improprieties.

http://www.realchange.org/mccain.htm

As to the Buchanan quote, I actualy have respect for the fiscal conservatives, but not neocons. They are huge deficit builders.

[Secretariat]

Well, sec, the liberal smearmachine has begun its dirty tricks for the next election. The N.Y. Pravada has warmed up a 20 yr old story that's full of inuendo and no facts. M'Cain was fully investigated 20 yrs ago by Bob Bennet and found to be totally without guilt in these matters.

The liberal smearmachine? is that Rush? He's not a McCain supporter. What's troublesome is the conservative NY Times sat on this story even after quote from McCain's own aides.

Perhaps you need to read some conservative blogs.

http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/

"I am incredibly shocked … profoundly saddened," said Ruth Malhotra, an activist with Evangelicals for Mitt. "I can't support John McCain. He is not a conservative. … He's stabbed his party in the back and he's betrayed the conservative movement."

[russowen77]

I sure wish I had a candidate in this election.

I have learned from much experience to never trust mil officers-- retitred or not. He knew all the "shock and Awe" propaganda before the Iraq war was BS and he said nothing.

Had huck as Gov for awhile. He kept trying to find ways around the balanced budget law so he could do the dificet spending thing the conservatives love so much.

I know Hillary. She is no liberal like folks like to paint her but she is also not my cup of tea. The temp goes down when she comes into the room.

I think Obama is actually a reincarnation of Bilbo. He is just half black this time.

I sure wish I had a candidate. :confused:

[delayjf]

And here I always thought Republicans, with their passion for guns and desire to kill anyone they disagree with, were impotent. Who woulda thunk
Well we know liberals certainly are not impotent nor are they discriminating, the crack of dawns not safe around them - love that diversity. ;)

[Tom]

Bilbo Baggins was black??????

[ljb]

I sure wish I had a candidate in this election.

I have learned from much experience to never trust mil officers-- retitred or not. He knew all the "shock and Awe" propaganda before the Iraq war was BS and he said nothing.

Had huck as Gov for awhile. He kept trying to find ways around the balanced budget law so he could do the dificet spending thing the conservatives love so much.

I know Hillary. She is no liberal like folks like to paint her but she is also not my cup of tea. The temp goes down when she comes into the room.

I think Obama is actually a reincarnation of Bilbo. He is just half black this time.

I sure wish I had a candidate. :confused:
Ron Paul is still in the race.

[JustRalph]

I have learned from much experience to never trust mil officers-- retitred or not.

Wow, that's a broad brush you are swinging...........

[ezrabrooks]

Well this should bring joy to some here.
McCain voted against the senate bill banning waterboarding and other forms of torture.
This of course is a flip/flop from his previous opinion on torture, but the neocons should fall for it. :bang: :bang: :bang:

So what does that have to do with neocons? I guess the defination of a neocon has change.

Ez

[ljb]

So what does that have to do with neocons? I guess the defination of a neocon has change.

Ez
Part of the neocon package is torture as an acceptable means to an end. Regardless of what that end may be.

[delayjf]

Regardless of what that end may be.
What's the worst that can happen??? One dead terrorist - sounds like a winning situation to me.

[46zilzal]

McCain is having to buck a real popular fellow too.

[ezrabrooks]

Part of the neocon package is torture as an acceptable means to an end. Regardless of what that end may be.

And a neocon is a what? That was my question?

Ez

[Lefty]

Sec, Keating 5 story was fully investigated by Bob Bennet who was an attorney for the Dem senate at the time. He said he recommended that M'Cains name be dropped from the list but the Senate ignored him, otherwise they would be just investigating Dems.
You have no sense of balance do you, sec. How thehell can you equare what conservatives have been saying about Mcain with an old dredged up story that is backed by no frifggin evidence? The conservatives attacking M'Cain on his record not his personal life. This story smacks of the same thing that CBS tried to do with Bush with their story backed by forged documents. The dem smear machine is alive and well and now you are willingly taking part in it. Congrats for taking any old story that smears a repub and running with it, even though there's no evidence and you didn't even question the timing.
This is EXACTLY why M'Cain will win because people will more and more realize how low the libs can get.

[Tom]

ljb, in your own words, knowing that water boarding is not lethal, not harmful, has proven effective....why is it bad?

[ljb]

We are better then the heathens we are fighting. I am not convinced it is effective.

[JustRalph]

We are better then the heathens we are fighting. I am not convinced it is effective.

See if you can convince these three guys. they sang like the proverbial canary

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/waterboarding_3suspects_080205_ms.jpg

[Lefty]

JR, I implore you, please stop confusing lbj with actual facts.

[Secretariat]

Sec, Keating 5 story was fully investigated by Bob Bennet who was an attorney for the Dem senate at the time. He said he recommended that M'Cains name be dropped from the list but the Senate ignored him, otherwise they would be just investigating Dems.
You have no sense of balance do you, sec. How thehell can you equare what conservatives have been saying about Mcain with an old dredged up story that is backed by no frifggin evidence? The conservatives attacking M'Cain on his record not his personal life. This story smacks of the same thing that CBS tried to do with Bush with their story backed by forged documents. The dem smear machine is alive and well and now you are willingly taking part in it. Congrats for taking any old story that smears a repub and running with it, even though there's no evidence and you didn't even question the timing.
This is EXACTLY why M'Cain will win because people will more and more realize how low the libs can get.

Bob Bennett? You mean McCain’s personal lawyer? Or the older brother of conservative Bill Bennett? Bennett also defended Cap Weinburger in Iran-Contra and had to be pardoned by Bush I. And didn’t he just defend Wolfowitz before Wolfie was thrown out of the World Bank for granting favors to his girlfriend? He also defended Clinton vs Paula Jones and lost that one. Generally, the guy has been wrong more than right.


Actually Bennet recommended McCain AND Glenn's name be removed from the list. The Senate Ethics committee, including Jesse Helms, wanted all the parties on the list. McCain was rebuked as showing very poor judgment. He violated Ethics laws, and was slapped on the wrist for it. I've never brought that up here before. The issue to me is not one of a sexual affair. I could care less. That's Republican fodder. The issue is one of accepting a lobbyist's favors and being influenced unduly by that lobbyist. With the Keating Five incident , McCain (by his own admission and the Ethics' committee determination) stated he showed poor judgment. He should have learned from that Ethics rebuke. He said he did. Now comes this allegation by "McCain's staffer's" quotes that he has again shown poor judgment regarding being influenced by a pretty and close lobbyist, accepting private jet rides, etc. Why the man is under scrutiny is his campaign seems focused on Ethics, and he is applying for the highest office in the land. Of course the incident deserves scrutiny. I have got to laugh Lefty, after 8 years of the your bellyaching about the Clinton WH, and investigation after investigation, and none of them stuck except the Lewinsky perjury event, and now an investigation into a man who stands in his campaign for Ethics, and may have violated Senate Ethics rule regarding lobbyists, and it's suddenly a lib trick, and should be swept under the rug. Would you feel the same way if this Senator's name was Barrack Obama? No, you'd be the first in line demanding the truth, and well you should be.

Frankly, I'm not happy with any of the candidates. Mine have all lost out. And maybe McCain wins. Anything would be better than the agony we've had to endure as a nation over the last eight years of Bush, but Lefty ,the Times is not backing down, and McCain is not filing a libel suit. This is an issue not about an affair, but an issue about a possible unethical relationship with a lobbyist. After the Abramoff disaster, I'd think you'd want the truth to surface.

[Lefty]

Bob Bennet is Bill's brother and a dem and now M'cains lawyer, after this smear campaign by the NY Pravda Times. It's one thing to want the truth to come out and quite another for a newspaper to run nothing more than gossip, eh what? You don't question the timing of this hit piece? Laughable

[Lefty]

Agony? You're getting as silly as zilly.

[ezrabrooks]

Part of the neocon package is torture as an acceptable means to an end. Regardless of what that end may be.

Yep, it is official...

Ez

[Tom]

Knowing that water boarding has been proven effective, is not lethal, and has not caused any serious or permanent injuries, will someone, in their own words, not parrot-talk, tell me why it is bad?

Is it your preference that LA had been attacked rather than expose the
architect of 9-11 to 35 seconds uof unpleasentness?

Thank you for your support.

[Lefty]

Tom, the libs blve putting women's panties on a terrorists head is also torture. They are the "put America last." crowd.

[Secretariat]

Bob Bennet is Bill's brother and a dem and now M'cains lawyer, after this smear campaign by the NY Pravda Times. It's one thing to want the truth to come out and quite another for a newspaper to run nothing more than gossip, eh what? You don't question the timing of this hit piece? Laughable

Bob Bennett has defended Wolfowitz, Cap Weinberger ,etc....He's a lawyer. He has no party. His brother is a staunch conservative. My point is because Bob Bennett says something doesn't make it so. The Ethics Committee chastized McCain for poor judgment in the Keating affair, and that he had violated Ethics guidelines.

As to what you refer to as the NY Pravda Times, oh loyal dittohead, when are you going to learn that media is not liberal, conservative or independent. It is simply capitalistic.

As to gossip, McCain has a history of using "poor judgment" in regards to lobbyists, and has a history of "poor judgment" when it comes to young ladies.

Not sure after the last eight years of GW, we can afford another commander in cheif with "poor judgment" claims from the Senate Ethics Commitee, his own wife, and frankly from himself.

.................................................. ..............................

"The breakup of our marriage was not caused by my accident or Vietnam or any of those things. I don't know that it might not have happened if John had never been gone. I attribute it more to John turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again than I do to anything else." - Carol McCain, John McCain's first wife.

"My marriage's collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine." - John McCain, his own quote from his book Worth the Fighting For.

[chickenhead]

to me the times story was interesting...I think its legitimate to suggest they had no business running it. There is no meat to it...its basically a gossip piece. If they're going to suggest the man had an affair, they need to back it up.

[chickenhead]

the libs blve putting women's panties on a terrorists head is also torture.

oh the agony and the ecstasy of it all! Isn't having to include panties on the head (soiled desert panties no less) as part of our national terror avoidance strategy reason enough to be against it?

except in the extreme cases of intentional mind blowing psychedelic expeditions where it seems necessary, I am against panty on the head wearing.....and in all cases, against talking about it afterwards.

[Tom]

I would pay good money for some of the Abu Grad things this weekend! :eek::cool:

[Secretariat]

to me the times story was interesting...I think its legitimate to suggest they had no business running it. There is no meat to it...its basically a gossip piece. If they're going to suggest the man had an affair, they need to back it up.

After reading it, I don't think their piece centered around a romatic/sexual affair. Almost all the quotes were from McCain staffers ,or former staffers who were concerned about this relationship and the impropriety of a lobbyist having this much access to McCain, and unduly influencing McCain. I think that's a very legit concern. As to the "romantic/sexual relationship" I could care less. However, if he's having a relationship, and it involves money or political/corporate favors for money (campaign contributions) than I am concerned.

[chickenhead]

After reading it, I don't think their piece centered around an affair. Almost all the quotes were from McCain staffers ,or former staffers who were concerned about this relationship and the impropriety of a lobbyist having this much access to McCain, and unduly influencing McCain. I think that's a very legit concern. As to the "romantic/sexual relationship" I could care less. If he's having a relationship, and it invovles money or poltical/corporate favors for money than I am concerned.

As soon as the Times decided to throw that bit in there, that's what it became about...and they knew that. But there is no "there" to the piece. It doesn't have a punchline.

Charlie Rose had a guy on from Newsweek last night...he said they all knew what the Times was working on...and they all looked and thought there was nothing there. This piece was also heavily debated within the Times, far from unanimous that it was worth running.

[JustRalph]

I would pay good money for some of the Abu Grad things this weekend! :eek::cool:

:lol: After the morning I had............my wife's going to be up on charges!! :lol:

[ljb]

Tom, the libs blve putting women's panties on a terrorists head is also torture. They are the "put America last." crowd.
And McCain enjoys it, especially if it is a blond lobbyists panties. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Lefty]

lbj, you love to smear repubs without any evidence whatsoever. People like you are a big reason i don't like libs very much.
As Lanny Davis, (a Dem)once said, "where's the poof?

[riskman]

Someday, our children may travel to Washington and somewhere near the Smithsonian and the Holocaust Museum, perhaps they, like the Czechs and other Europeans, will be able to visit their own official torture museum. There, a step from the Potomac River, they will be able to view strange instruments for inflicting pain and perhaps even watch horrifying videos of torture happening. And they may wonder how we ever faltered so miserably when it came to a war that was supposed to be on terror, but ended up adopting the worst traditions of terror in the Age of Barbarism Lite.

[Lefty]

risky, your post is unadulterated nonsense!

[ljb]

Risky,
Use caution here, the neocons don't like it when the truth jumps up and bites em in the ass.

[Secretariat]

As soon as the Times decided to throw that bit in there, that's what it became about...and they knew that. But there is no "there" to the piece. It doesn't have a punchline.

Charlie Rose had a guy on from Newsweek last night...he said they all knew what the Times was working on...and they all looked and thought there was nothing there. This piece was also heavily debated within the Times, far from unanimous that it was worth running.

Charlie Rose may have had a guy from Newsweek on and thought there was nothing there?

That's odd, because Newsweek just ran a big article on Paxson and the ISeman connection. The Washington Post jsut ran an article as well. It appears McCain's actual comments are starting to contradict with his past statements.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/114505/page/1

A Hole in McCain’s Defense?
An apparent contradiction in his response to lobbyist story

…

Just hours after the Times's story was posted, the McCain campaign issued a point-by-point response that depicted the letters as routine correspondence handled by his staff—and insisted that McCain had never even spoken with anybody from Paxson or Alcalde & Fay about the matter. "No representative of Paxson or Alcalde & Fay personally asked Senator McCain to send a letter to the FCC," the campaign said in a statement e-mailed to reporters.

But that flat claim seems to be contradicted by an impeccable source: McCain himself. "I was contacted by Mr. [Lowell] Paxson on this issue," McCain said in the Sept. 25, 2002, deposition obtained by NEWSWEEK. "He wanted their approval very bad for purposes of his business. I believe that Mr. Paxson had a legitimate complaint."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202634.html?nav=rss_email/components

Paxson Contradicts McCain Campaign on Meetings
Broadcaster Says He Met with Senator Several Weeks Before Letters to FCC Were Sent
Broadcaster Lowell "Bud" Paxson today contradicted statements from Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign that the senator did not meet with Paxson or his lobbyist before sending two controversial letters to the Federal Communications Commission on Paxson's behalf.

Paxson said he talked with McCain in his Washington office several weeks before the Arizona Republican wrote the letters to the FCC urging a rapid decision on Paxson's quest to acquire a Pittsburgh television station.

Paxson also recalled that his lobbyist, Vicki Iseman, attended the meeting in McCain's office and that Iseman helped arrange the meeting. "Was Vicki there? Probably," Paxson said in an interview with The Washington Post today. "The woman was a professional. She was good. She could get us meetings."
The recollection of the now-retired Paxson conflicted with the account provided by McCain about two letters at the center of a controversy about the senator's ties to Iseman, a partner at the lobbying firm of Alcalde & Fay.

[chickenhead]

Charlie Rose may have had a guy from Newsweek on and thought there was nothing there?

I didn't say may...I said did....and you really want to flip your wig, it was the same guy that wrote your story, Isikoff. Since you're quoting his story, I assume you're interested in what he thought about the piece?

Isikoff:

"the explosive element was about the sexual element...."

"throwing that explosive element in the story...clouded the rest of it...properly opened them to criticism"

"the stuff about Paxson..is the same stuff that came up in 2000...but they did a good job flushing that out"

"this story was known by a lot of reporters..a number of people including myself looked into it....but nobody was able to substantiate the key aspects to any level that met the standards we have....we never had a serious discussion about publishing it, because it wouldn't have been prudent journalism."




This is a landmark article for you Sec, knock yourself out. Without the sexual innuendo, this is a page B16 rehash of 8 yr old "news".

[Tom]

Someday, our children may travel to Washington and somewhere near the Smithsonian and the Holocaust Museum, perhaps they, like the Czechs and other Europeans, will be able to visit their own official torture museum. There, a step from the Potomac River, they will be able to view strange instruments for inflicting pain and perhaps even watch horrifying videos of torture happening. And they may wonder how we ever faltered so miserably when it came to a war that was supposed to be on terror, but ended up adopting the worst traditions of terror in the Age of Barbarism Lite.

Now that you have puked your generalities all over this thread, perhaps you could throw out a few facts?

What instuments of torture? what types of torture - specifically? Do you know anything beyond the media using the word torture? Maybe you could answer my question earlier about why is waterboarding bad?

[Tom]

Hey, hey, ljb, how many lies did you tell today?

The truth? Whose truth? Your truth? Or the real truth?
Still waiting for a reply to post 65.....or are one liners the extend of your ability? How about you detailing the specif acts of torture and the frequency of their use, plus the results for us all to get up to speed with your great insights?

Yeah, right. All talky, no ballsy. Empty suit. All always, ya got nuthin.

[ljb]

Take it easy Tom,
If you continue with your silly attacks I may force you into your state of ignorance again. We all know that your ignorance is bad enough already.
I answered your question in another thread where you also asked it. Repeating yourself is a bad sign Tom, have you considered seeking help ?

[bigmack]

Risky,
Use caution here, the neocons don't like it when the truth jumps up and bites em in the ass.
If I were you (& I'm glad I'm not) I'd worry less about your fixation with neocons and more about the evil monkey in your closet. There's so much evil in this world for the little guy to worry about. Damn Corporate America

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/familyguyevilmonkey8oe-1.gif

[Tom]

Still to shallow to post anytinng specific, I see, ljb.......a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[ljb]

Still to shallow to post anytinng specific, I see, ljb.......a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
How would you know ? :lol: :lol: :lol: