Obama could have been a orator in days gone by

[46zilzal]

In his speech addressing the Democratic National Convention in 2004,
“ In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or a politics of hope? John Kerry calls on us to hope. John Edwards calls on us to hope. I'm not talking about blind optimism here -- the almost willful ignorance that thinks unemployment will go away if we just don't talk about it, or the health care crisis will solve itself if we just ignore it. No, I'm talking about something more substantial. It's the hope of slaves sitting around a fire singing freedom songs; the hope of immigrants setting out for distant shores; the hope of a young naval lieutenant bravely patrolling the Mekong Delta; the hope of a millworker's son who dares to defy the odds; the hope of a skinny kid with a funny name who believes that America has a place for him, too. Hope in the face of difficulty. Hope in the face of uncertainty. The audacity of hope!"

[lsbets]

"a orator"? :lol: :lol: good thing you didn't leave medicine to be an English teacher!

[46zilzal]

"a orator"? :lol: :lol: good thing you didn't leave medicine to be an English teacher!
One distinguished for skill and power as a public speaker.

Others noticed it too:http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3853222&page=1

[JustRalph]

he has been well versed........and trained in the rhythm of it. it is obvious.

You have speak well when you have no record to stand on.

[riskman]

Then we have GWB. His public speaking skills are the topic of many comedians’ jokes. His butchering of the English language has inspired collections of Bushisms. For most people, this combination of attributes would send a job résumé straight to the shredder.
If we are able to identify the actions or features that have put this president into power(GWB), perhaps we will be more careful in the future before electing another president who would exagerate to put our country into a war. Perhaps too, we may be more alert to the dangers of our entire government being blindly led in one direction.

[DeanT]

I love listening to him; when watching the primaries I wait until he comes on to sign off. Excellent speaker! Eventho I dont agree with his policies, he is damn good for the game.

Risk, GWB ain't got the Obama prose, or delivery, but I still think the speech he delivered after 911 was one of the best speeches I have ever heard.

[Greyfox]

he has been well versed........and trained in the rhythm of it. it is obvious.
.

:ThmbUp: He has a cadence and rhythm. Does any one hear any substance there besides "hope" and "change?" I'm not picking it up.

[PaceAdvantage]

If we are able to identify the actions or features that have put this president into power(GWB), perhaps we will be more careful in the future before electing another president who would exagerate to put our country into a war. Perhaps too, we may be more alert to the dangers of our entire government being blindly led in one direction.Yeah, cause as we all know, every administration before GWB NEVER had its own agenda....:rolleyes:

And it's not as if POTUS was GWB's first rodeo. He was elected Gov. of Texas TWICE....people tend to forget this I suppose...

The canned response to this is going to be a giant put down to all the people living in Texas. That's the way things tend to go around here these days.....

[riskman]

Risk, GWB ain't got the Obama prose, or delivery, but I still think the speech he delivered after 911 was one of the best speeches I have ever heard.

First, Bush is a follower of the KISS rule: Keep It Simple and Stupid. He gives the same speech every time. The simple style of Bush is well-suited for television.

Yes, the 911 speech was no doubt his best.http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010911-16.html This was not a KISS speech.Being a New York City resident, and having a late morning meeting that day in Manhattan I was home having coffee watching CNN when the disaster unfolded. I was shocked and tried to reach my wife at work and daughter at Cathedral High School. No luck, but eight hours later they finally made it home. A day that I will never forget.

[chickenhead]

:ThmbUp: He has a cadence and rhythm. Does any one hear any substance there besides "hope" and "change?" I'm not picking it up.

Depends on what you mean. I could be wrong, but I don't think his political philosophy is that hard to figure out. Seems to have character and class in spades (particularly in contrast).

What substance, otherwise, that is present in any of the others?

[riskman]

Yeah, cause as we all know, every administration before GWB NEVER had its own agenda....:rolleyes:

And it's not as if POTUS was GWB's first rodeo. He was elected Gov. of Texas TWICE....people tend to forget this I suppose...

The canned response to this is going to be a giant put down to all the people living in Texas. That's the way things tend to go around here these days.....


Personally, in the end you should be happy. This whole primary trail may end with the nomination of two essentially pro-war, safely pro-interventionist candidates for the presidency: McCain and the Clintons. In that case, the campaign will consist of more-interventionist-than-thou proclamations, with McCain the probable winner.

For the Bushies, the black cloud over the White house would be lifted – the White House retained, the war resumed and the Mesopotamian project started by Dubya revived. Nothing changes !!!!!

[Tom]

"hope and change"

"If it does not fit you, must acquit"

"Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left."


The dem playbook textbook example - repeat it until they believe it. :lol::lol::lol:

[Greyfox]

Glenn Beck said last evening that in today's show he is going to "reveal just how far to the left Obama is."

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/tv/

[Lefty]

zilly, it figures thatyou're a big fan of style over substance. And a fan of one of the biggest liberals. That's why Kennedy endorsed him.

[46zilzal]

zilly, it figures thatyou're a big fan of style over substance. And a fan of one of the biggest liberals. That's why Kennedy endorsed him.
Style over substance is one of the best racing angles around. Works at several tracks to the exclusion of everything else.

[bigmack]

Well, comparing the styles from tonights speeches, I'd say their delivery couldn't be any more different. With Obama, the style is being honed and it's pretty darn good at this point. (Floppin' the dial around, did I hear correctly that Chris Mathews on CNBC felt that his speech gave him a tingling sensation that went up his leg? ):lol:

McCain had better surround himself with a more festive bunch than that crowd.

The difference was akin to being at a concert and being in a dentist's office.

[Tom]

Well, comparing the styles from tonights speeches, I'd say their delivery couldn't be any more different. With Obama, the style is being honed and it's pretty darn good at this point. (Floppin' the dial around, did I hear correctly that Chris Mathews on CNBC felt that his speech gave him a tingling sensation that went up his leg? ):lol: That might have been the three beers Chris had at dinner!

McCain had better surround himself with a more festive bunch than that crowd. What do you call Juan McCan'ts cabinet? Grumpy Old Men.

The difference was akin to being at a concert and being in a dentist's office.

Just pondering......
Does Obama kind of fit the description of the Anti-Christ?

[PaceAdvantage]

Just pondering......
Does Obama kind of fit the description of the Anti-Christ?Wait, I thought BUSH was the anti-Christ?

Are you telling me this guy was WRONG?

http://www.bushisantichrist.com/

[Lefty]

zilly, style over substance doesn't cut it in horseracing either. A horse may have the style to win but if he hasn't any substance he's another also ran. Not that he racing analogy particularly works in politics. I want someonewho will lead and be tough when the country needs to be strong. GWB has been such a leader. He took all the knocks and criticisms and dumbass jokes from the left and did what he thght was right.
Obama, is even more liberal than Hillary. He will tax us and worse, give Iraq back to the terrorists. Flowery speeches just don't cut it for me.

[46zilzal]

z GWB has been such a leader. He took all the knocks and criticisms and dumbass jokes from the left and did what he thought was right.
Obama, is even more liberal than Hillary. He will tax us and worse, give Iraq back to the terrorists.
And he continued to miss the boat by a mile and will go down in history as one of the worst of all time.

[PaceAdvantage]

And he continued to miss the boat by a mile and will go down in history as one of the worst of all time.Why is JFK thought of so highly despite being the one that put us FULL TIME into that QUAGMIRE known as Vietnam?

Riddle me that one Mr. Zilzal

And, oh yeah, another thread goes OFF COURSE thanks to 46zilzal. (POST #15)

[Lefty]

"a orator"? :lol: :lol: good thing you didn't leave medicine to be an English teacher!
zilly, what ls bets is trying to tell you, and you missed it completey was it should be "an orator, not a orator. I suggest you desist immediately in criticizing GWB and others about their English skills and work on your own.

[46zilzal]

CBS Interview, September 2, 1963

MR. CRONKITE. Mr. President, the only hot war we've got running at the moment is of course the one in Viet-Nam, and we have our difficulties here, quite obviously.

PRESIDENT KENNEDY. I don't think that unless a greater effort is made by the Government to win popular support that the war can be won out there. In the final analysis, it is their war. They are the ones who have to win it or lose it. We can help them, we can give them equipment, we can send our men out there as advisers, but they have to win it—the people of Viet-Nam—against the Communists. We are prepared to continue to assist them, but I don't think that the war can be won unless the people support the effort, and, in my opinion, in the last 2 months the Government has gotten out of touch with the people.

One president OUT of the way, so to speak, Johnson gets the chance to pay back all of the military suppliers from Texas.

[chickenhead]

He took all the knocks and criticisms and dumbass jokes from the left and did what he thght was right.
Obama, is even more liberal than Hillary. He will tax us and worse, give Iraq back to the terrorists. Flowery speeches just don't cut it for me.

It's a difference of ideology that bothers you, it has nothing to do with him speaking well. Right or wrong, Obama opposed the Iraq war when few others did, and hasn't changed on that point. Now he is reaping the benefits of that stand. He's also reaping the benefits on being a non-boomer (in reality)...which is something a whole lot of people under the age of about 45 find somewhat attractive...having had everything be about the 60's for the last 30+ years has gotten a bit old.

You like GWB because he did what he thinks is right. You don't like Obama because you are afraid he'll also do what he thinks is right. It has nothing to do with character, or speeches, or substance. It's just plain old ideological differences.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, that's one way to look at it....here's another:

Kennedy increased the number of U.S. military advisers from 800 to 16,300 to cope with rising guerrilla activity. The advisers were embedded at every level of the South Vietnamese armed forces.
Kennedy had introduced helicopters to the war and created a joint U.S.-South Vietnamese Air Force, staffed with American pilots. He also sent in the Green Berets.

[Lefty]

chick, well, I need a president that reflects my ideology, yep that's true. I want tax cutters not tax raisers and one that's smart enough to know that ceding Iraq bk to the terrorists is not the way to go. I couldn't vote for these socialist dems in a hundred yrs. There ya go.
And it does have to do with substance. He says he wants to negotiate with our enemies. Doesn't he realize we tried that for many years without success? Tonight he talked about Bush's tax cuts costing us money. Doesn't herealize those tax cuts doubled the money coming in to the I.R.S?
And remember when he wanted to invade Pakistan? Doesn't he realize...
I think there's a lot he doesn't realize.

[bigmack]

My initial exult is in the grand possibility that it won't at least be Hillary providing TX & OH don't create a strong enough umph for her to be back.

In hindsight, I should have seen that this is the most entertaining of bouts that could have occurred.

This could be interesting.

[chickenhead]

And it does have to do with substance. He says he wants to negotiate with our enemies. Doesn't he realize we tried that for many years without success?

If you think we don't have channels, and discussions, and negotiations, with all the countries of the world, you're living in a fantasy world. Bush, Clinton before him, and Bush before him, and Reagan before him.


Tonight he talked about Bush's tax cuts costing us money. Doesn't he realize those tax cuts doubled the money coming in to the I.R.S?

Doubled from the very low receipts at the trough of the previous recession. I like tax cuts as much as the next guy, but I hate debt more than the next guy. Bush gets no kudos for me for borrowing money on my behalf, and giving me a fraction of it.


And remember when he wanted to invade Pakistan? Doesn't he realize...

I think he said he'd bomb Al-Qaeda, if he found out where they were in Pakistan. Good. He's got my support. Doesn't he realize, what? They want to act up, we can bomb the rest of the country too.

I am not big Pro-Obama, even if that is how I'm coming off here. I haven't had any candidate I can get all gushy about in my life. I'm just not orthodox enough I guess. But I can say I've seen a lot worse than Obama.

[PaceAdvantage]

But I can say I've seen a lot worse than Obama.But that's only because Obama remains a relative man of mystery, unless you count his voting record.

[Lefty]

Onething I don't live in is a fantasy world, especially the "utopia" that libs like to describe. I realize we negotiate and are negotiating, i also realize we are at warbecause negotian failed with Hussein. It's your "silver tongued" orator Obama that says he will negotiate and says it like GWB has refused to negotiate. Yes, by all means, let's bomb our allies. Are ya kiddin me?
Yes we need to reduce our debt and we're doing it and will continue until some "tax raiser" comes in raises taxes, that will cut investment, and then he'll propose more entitlements and more money for the entitlements we already have.

[Lefty]

a lot worse than Obama? Don't think you've looked beyond the rhetoric.

[Lefty]

bigmaxck. I hope Hillary and Obama go into the convention deadlocked. THAT would be entertaining. Will Hillary end up getting trhose delegates in Fl and Mich that the Dems have disenfranchised? How will the Super Delegates vote? Most entertaining ideed.

[chickenhead]

But that's only because Obama remains a relative man of mystery, unless you count his voting record.

I might blindly take "whatever is behind door number 2" in comparison to Hillary, you're right...but I do think my lizard brain does a decent job of figuring some things out...and I think he is legitimately someone I would prefer to her. It's not that much different than interviewing someone for any other job, their qualifications matter, their expertise, but the lizard brain is powerful.

We talk about governors winning presidencies...about how its because they've been at the helm before...I think thats largely hogwash. Nationally we don't know much about them, we've never heard of them before in most cases. We go with our gut. I don't think Bush the first time around was much different.

[Lefty]

No matter how it plays out, unless Hucksterbee does the near impossible, for the first time since JFK, we'll have a Senator win the WH.

[bigmack]

bigmaxck. I hope Hillary and Obama go into the convention deadlocked. THAT would be entertaining. Will Hillary end up getting trhose delegates in Fl and Mich that the Dems have disenfranchised? How will the Super Delegates vote? Most entertaining ideed.
I believe it was Bob Novak that I heard say "I'd love to be a mouse in the corner of the room with Hillary & Obama when they decide who bows out".

A Naval Hero and a man with the name Barack Hussein Obama with "change" afoot. Wild stuff

[PaceAdvantage]

I still think Obama is the equivalent of a 3yo that runs a 116 Beyer against a field of 4 in early April. 99% of the time, it's all hype and not much else....

[PaceAdvantage]

A Naval Hero and a man with the name Barack Hussein Obama with "change" afoot. Wild stuffIf it turns out that way, it will be the single greatest sabotage of a political party EVER....and I thought I heard on TV that Republicans are playing a roll by voting for Obama in some of these states that allow anyone, regardless of political affiliation, to participate?

Wow, what a coup....

[Lefty]

I still think Obama is the equivalent of a 3yo that runs a 116 Beyer against a field of 4 in early April. 99% of the time, it's all hype and not much else....
zilly, take note: Now this is a racing analogy that WORKS.

[chickenhead]

If it turns out that way, it will be the single greatest sabotage of a political party EVER....and I thought I heard on TV that Republicans are playing a roll by voting for Obama in some of these states that allow anyone, regardless of political affiliation, to participate?

Wow, what a coup....

It depends on how it happens, I think the worse blowup is when the DNC blinks, tries to throw it to Hillary, and about 40% of the party goes absolutely apeshit ballistic. Don't forget...McCain does very well with independants and the more conservative Democrats.

It all depends on how it goes down...but until convinced otherwise, with things being where they are today...Obama has a better shot against McCain than Hillary. Although your women voter theory may well trump all.

Definately the most interesting election I've ever seen.

[bigmack]

If it turns out that way, it will be the single greatest sabotage of a political party EVER....
While possible that some live sheltered lives, this move of late and his rise to the occasion is more than palpable in the air to the Avg Joe/Jane & quite possibly unstopable.

I revel in a non-Clinton/Bush possibility.

[Lefty]

I think this could happen: Hillary sues to get the delegates she won in FL and Mich. Obama then asks for a "do over" in those States.

[46zilzal]

CNN proposed an interesting scenario that could undermine the advantages their party has. If it comes down to a tie, the old school super delegates will go for Clinton and then over-ride the established voting will of the people and really divide and undermine the voters confidence. Why vote if the super delegates negate what the voters want?


Interesting thing if it comes to pass.

[Lefty]

zilly, I invoked the possibility they suggest a few days ago. One scenario they could use is that the voters in Mich and Fl were disinfranchised. Also, there are Super Delegates pledged to both candidates. I suspect Hillary has more. These Dems a shifty lot, eh?

[46zilzal]

zilly, I invoked the possibility they suggest a few days ago. One scenario they could use is that the voters in Mich and Fl were disinfranchised. Also, there are Super Delegates pledged to both candidates. I suspect Hillary has more. These Dems a shifty lot, eh?
No, power hungry people do this all the time no matter their political affiliations.

[Tom]

Do the repubs have super delegates as well?

[Lefty]

I remind you, the R's have no Super Delegates. They will go into their convention with a candidate selected bythe people and not the bigwigs in the party.

[Lefty]

Tom, pretty sure, about 99% they don't. I think it would have been pointed out by now if they had.

[Tom]

This is geeting interesting - the dems whinned and cried about Bush winning on the electoral votes, not the popular ( incorrectly so) and now they face the same quandry. They all knew going in how thier party works, but they will cry and whine all the same if it does. :lol::lol::lol:

[RaceBookJoe]

Does anyone know what the count would be if the dem results were winner take all? Obama is up 21-10 in state wins i believe.

[JustRalph]

If Obama wins, gets elected.............. I fear another Jimmy Carter..........

[Lefty]

Absolutely. When you get past therhetoric and listen to his plans just another socialist that will raise taxes and create new entitlements. 210 billion to create evironmental jobs? Good gawd! Bye bye free market, bye bye our money. And that's just the tip ofthe iceburg.

[46zilzal]

You wouldn't know a REAL socialist if they bit you. This fellow is tame in comparison.

[Lefty]

He's prob not as big a socialist as you, zilly, but potent enough in his belief's of redistributing the wealth to make me shudder. And he wants to bring home the troops, declare surrender and put the terrorists in power in Iraq.
He's the same old dem candidate with a new wrapper.

[JustRalph]

You wouldn't know a REAL socialist if they bit you. This fellow is tame in comparison.

I gotta say it


It Takes one To Know One!!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Interesting thing if it comes to pass.Interesting? Is that what you're calling it now?

I believe in 2000, you called it VOTER DISENFRANCHISEMENT.

[JustRalph]

best line I have seen on Obama yet...........

"Obama has an astonishingly empty paper trail. He’s going around issuing promissory notes on the future that he can’t possibly redeem. Promises to heal the world with negotiations with the likes of Iran’s Ahmadinejad. Promises to transcend the conundrums of entitlement reform that require real and painful trade-offs and that have eluded solution for a generation. Promises to fund his other promises by a rapid withdrawal from an unpopular war — with the hope, I suppose, that the (presumed) resulting increase in American prestige would compensate for the chaos to follow.

Democrats are worried that the Obama spell will break between the time of his nomination and the time of the election, and deny them the White House. My guess is that he can maintain the spell just past Inauguration Day. After which will come the awakening. It will be rude."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzliZThmMTA4YTM1NzlhN2E2MTdjZTQ1ZjhhZWQ0ZWQ=

http://article.nationalreview.com/images/author/img2087606424457962fb57e9c.gif

[wonatthewire1]

Ralph,

Who's a bigger librul - McCan't or Barry?

Don't think its gonna matter - Rove's 1,000 years of Repuke rule is already busted. Dimocrats are licking their chops over what is left of the carcass.

Just hope (pray) that Billary doesn't end up winning - can you imagine all that power in Bill's hands now that Bushie has consolidated it in the executive branch?

[Tom]

I think McCan't has it in the bag now.....
Enough republicans are scared to vote against him and enough democrats are dumb enough to vote for him.

[Greyfox]

Obama is indeed a great orator. I've never seen anyone say so much with so little in it.
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....

"Boring."
Unfortunately a large segment of the population is being taken in by his charismatic evangelistic utterings.
Does anyone really know very much about this man??

[46zilzal]

"Obama has an astonishingly empty paper trail. He’s going around issuing promissory notes on the future that he can’t possibly redeem. Promises to heal the world with negotiations with the likes of Iran’s Ahmadinejad. Promises to transcend the conundrums of entitlement reform that require real and painful trade-offs and that have eluded solution for a generation. Promises to fund his other promises by a rapid withdrawal from an unpopular war — with the hope, I suppose, that the (presumed) resulting increase in American prestige would compensate for the chaos to follow.


A politician promising the world? How ODD.

[Tom]

Obama is indeed a great orator. I've never seen anyone say so much with so little in it.
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....
"Hope and Change".....

"Boring."
Unfortunately a large segment of the population is being taken in by his charismatic evangelistic utterings.
Does anyone really know very much about this man??

And yet, many were all over Rudy for noun+verb+ 9-11 comments.
I think some dirty little secrets are on the horizon for Barry. Even is Hillary has to make them up.....:lol:

[46zilzal]

I think some dirty little secrets are on the horizon for Barry.
You mean the ones that will be made up?

[Greyfox]

"I think some dirty little secrets are on the horizon for Barry."

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Exactly. And if you want to know one of those "dirty little secrets"
check out the background of Jeremiah Wright at the following link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

[Tom]

You mean the ones that will be made up?

I said that - for Hillary. Learn to read.

But, I suspect more will come out, with actual facts to back them up.
But that won't change your mind, will it? :lol:

[46zilzal]

I said that - for Hillary. Learn to read.

But, I suspect more will come out, with actual facts to back them up.
But that won't change your mind, will it?
QUOTE:I think some dirty little secrets are on the horizon for Barry


Funny it reads directly the way you wrote it.

Change my mind? I'm not voting for any of these people nor support any of them.

[Tom]

I think some dirty little secrets are on the horizon for Barry. Even is Hillary has to make them up.....:lol:

Gee, zilly, when you look at it exactly as I posted it, it is quite clear that the two sentences go together. Have you reached the part about "pargraphs" in your class on learning?

[Greyfox]

Gee, zilly, when you look at it exactly as I posted it, it is quite clear that the two sentences go together. Have you reached the part about "pargraphs" in your class on learning?

Par graphs are for keeping track of surface speed. :lol:

[Tom]

Bang! Zoom!
You wanna go to the MOON, Alice?!
:lol:;)

[Overlay]

The Democrats are seeing history repeat itself. They had a similarly gifted but inexperienced orator (William Jennings Bryan) who rode to the nomination (when he was only 36) on the strength of one speech given at the Convention itself, and he took the party down to defeat then, and two more times after that.

[chickenhead]

the Republicans once nominated a young, gifted but inexperienced orator out of Illinois...

Life is like a box of chocolates....

[Tom]

Oh yeah, Chick?
Say, how'd that one turn out? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Lefty]

the Republicans once nominated a young, gifted but inexperienced orator out of Illinois...

Life is like a box of chocolates....
Yeah, but Lincoln didn't sponsor an 850 BILLION Global Poverty bill. How much do we get? NOTHING.
Another proposal to spend 240 billion on creating jobs in the environmental industry. He he's for change but it's for the worse!

[betchatoo]

The last time the dems ran an unknown who was a great public speaker Bill Clinton served 2 terms. And, if the rules allowed it, he would have easily one a 3rd despite the fact that "he never had sex with that woman."

[Tom]

And now his wife wants to have sex with all of us! :eek:

[Greyfox]

Obama is hypnotic. Six people have fainted at his speeches to date. And Bill Clinton's ex campaign manager is endorsing him. He's a phenom that is appealing to the hordes. Wake up America.

[PaceAdvantage]

This is the honeymoon phase....there is still plenty of time until November.

There's a reason they don't let kids swim in the deep end of the pool, so when push comes to shove, and that curtain closes on the voting booth, I wonder how many folks are really going to trust the next four years of the United States of America to Mr. Barrack H. Obama.

[Marshall Bennett]

This is the honeymoon phase....there is still plenty of time until November.

There's a reason they don't let kids swim in the deep end of the pool, so when push comes to shove, and that curtain closes on the voting booth, I wonder how many folks are really going to trust the next four years of the United States of America to Mr. Barrack H. Obama.
Fewer than most people think !!

[alydar]

We will have a chance to see.

I wouldn't underestimate his appeal.

He wasn't given much of a chance six months ago.

Time will tell. It is a very long way to go to November.

Things will look a lot different then, just don't really have an idea how.