Telltale Signs

[cj's dad]

When I'm at the track(usually Laurel Park) I normally watch the post parade for certain signs as to an entries fitness, interest, or the opposite of those. Obviously there are certain things I look for. I would like to here from PA members as to what you look for that will point to a live play vs. a toss out.

[46zilzal]

Never did notice much other than the dappling. When that is there you know the animal is healthy and is showing it. Now whether they handicap out is another matter.

Many horses appear disinterested when first out but perk up by post time. Other winners never change demeanor at all.

[cj's dad]

FWIW- I look for "clipping" or "covering"- ears pricked- no kidney sweat- eagerness to shake the lead pony- and focus.

Side note:
Belmont Stakes '97 ? - Free House, the most beautiful horse I've ever seen was dappled that day- I made the biggest single win wager I've ever made - he ran 3rd, beaten by Touch Gold and Silver Charm. Your mentioning of that phrase brought back (even though I lost $$$) a good memory.

[RaceBookJoe]

An important thing to know is how the horse normally acts. I like to see in a horse that i bet on, pricked ears...like they are listening for something. I like a tail that swishes up/down and horses that seem to have a swagger/confidence. If a horse holds his head down to the side i take that as a warning sign. To me though, negative signs are more reliable if they are new actions.

[QuarterCrack]

I like to see an arched neck. Dappling is good, too, though sometimes it can be hard to see on the screen. But a horse that is prancing with an arched neck is probably my #1 positive physicality sign to look for.

[46zilzal]

I like to see an arched neck. Dappling is good, too, though sometimes it can be hard to see on the screen. But a horse that is prancing with an arched neck is probably my #1 positive physicality sign to look for.
Bonnie Ledbetter called it "controlled nervousness" or something along those lines.

[RaceBookJoe]

I like to see an arched neck. Dappling is good, too, though sometimes it can be hard to see on the screen. But a horse that is prancing with an arched neck is probably my #1 positive physicality sign to look for.

I find Physicality Handicapping very hard to do at home or at the sportsbooks. Maybe others have better luck at it.

[Bruddah]

I like to see an arched neck. Dappling is good, too, though sometimes it can be hard to see on the screen. But a horse that is prancing with an arched neck is probably my #1 positive physicality sign to look for.

but add a tail arched off the horses rump. Sometimes shaped like a question mark. To me they are showing a dominance or superior rank, when arching the tail. (JMHO) :)

[ceejay]

I look @ the number of legs: 4 is best I hear. :lol:

[RaceBookJoe]

I look @ the number of legs: 4 is best I hear. :lol:

Well thats the matrix in effect. When they go to post they appear to have 4 legs, but once the cross 1/8th pole they reappear into reality and you realize that they only had 3 legs. :bang:

[Tom]

but add a tail arched off the horses rump. Sometimes shaped like a question mark. To me they are showing a dominance or superior rank, when arching the tail. (JMHO) :)

I used to look for this all the time.
Then, I started seeing it was sign of something else as well and quit looking there. :eek:

I like to see the horse nudge the lead pony, as if he were saying, lets get r done.

Also, I look for the lead pony to be dragging the horse, like it was saying WAKE UP! C'mon!

[Tape Reader]

As a tote board reader, what is "dappling"?

[InControlX]

Well thats the matrix in effect. When they go to post they appear to have 4 legs, but once the cross 1/8th pole they reappear into reality and you realize that they only had 3 legs. :bang:

So THAT's what "3 & UP" means... I always wondered!

ICX

[Robert Goren]

As my dad used to say " A slow horse is slow horse no matter how good he looks."

[cj]

I'm sure there are a few signs that can be possible indicators. I would think it is more important noting changes in appearance from race to race, both positive and negative.

[Robert Fischer]

I look for a horse that looks like a great athlete and superior physical speciman to his competition, and also look out for the horse that looks sick.

When you see Jim Brown or Bo Jackson run with the ball something is supposed to click in your head if you have any vision for physicallity. I don't care if beyer gave him a 60 in a weak maiden win...

you see these horses stand side by side.
One of the animals looks amazing. Strong fluid powerful, well built.
It's not going to do you any good if the horse has PROVEN he can't run.
You don't bet a paddock or post parade. Its good to see the animal for the reason that you want to know these animals. You have to guage their talent, you ought to know if the horse is built like a champ or if he looks weak. A young athletic horse might have some potential, and a sickly horse has to prove to you that he is a consistent runner.

Whenever you see a horse that looks noticeably weaker and less athletic or even sickly in comparison with the competition, you always have the option of passing the race. You can wait for the next race. Why bet a sick looking thing with good form unless the value is so unbelievable that you can't refuse??

[delayjf]

changes in appearance from race to race, both positive and negative.

CJ, you took the words right off my key board.

Another solid clue can be gleaned from observing how a horse comes out of a race. Spend a little time observing horses as the return to be unsaddled and you will soon be able to differentiate a horse that is exhausted from the race and horses whose body language seems to say "OK, who's next".

This was one of the most valuable things I learned when I subscribed to Takach’s news letters. If he said a winning horse came out of a race exhausted. He almost never ran well in his next start.

[Tee]

Look at the past performances then the horse then the tote. If what you see on the track is much, much better than what you see in the running lines......

Maybe it's time to go to the window.

Dappling
Nipping at the lead pony
A coat so shiny it might cause blindness
On his/her toes
Moves well warming up
Alertness, watch those antennas
Looks fit - not fat
Aggressive, but controlled behavior
Just plain walks around looking like he/she owns the friggen place.

How do you look & act when you feel like shit? How bout when you are feeling a little frisky?

Same goes for the horses imo.

[Pace Cap'n]

As a tote board reader, what is "dappling"?

Webster says: marked with small spots or patches contrasting with the background <a dappled fawn>

The fawn example is a bit extreme. I have never been able to see it on a tv monitor.

[46zilzal]

Dappling is an inherent darkening of the coat (at times looking like a subtle form of leopard spots) as shown here on Morgans.
http://colormorgans.tripod.com/silverdapple.htm

[cj's dad]

Webster says: marked with small spots or patches contrasting with the background <a dappled fawn>

The fawn example is a bit extreme. I have never been able to see it on a tv monitor.

Dappling is particularly noticeable on a gray. Dark splotches on the hind quarters show excellent blood flow to the posterior area, which indicates good conditioning and health.

As someone said regarding class; "it's hard to define but you'll know it when you see it"

[46zilzal]

a better demonstration of it.
http://members.aol.com/jbatteate/dapple/dapple.htm

[RaceBookJoe]

Something else i look for, which i read about somewhere was what is called a "tootsie roll". I think it was muscles on the side/underbelly, maybe something like the obliques on a human. Was supposed to show good conditioning.

[Donnie]

One thing that has helped me many times when watching the simuls: watch the horses as they warm up. Horses who tend to seem to rock back and forth as they stride across the screen don't tend to do as well as those who have a fluid stride. Watch their shoulders. They tend to stay level and don't rise and fall. The "action" is in their legs, not in their bodies.

If you don't think pre-race inspection helps, ask my 13 yr old son. Last summer he picked a number of $20 horses on his own simply by looking at them in the paddock.

[Bruddah]

As a tote board reader, what is "dappling"?

describes them as looking like small silver dollars located underneath the skin of the horse, in the horses lung area (sides of chest area). And, she is correct. They are a sure sign the horse is fit and ready when they are "dappled out".

One of the largest scores I ever made came in the Southwest Stakes at Oaklawn Park in 1999. A friend of mine (John Milliron) trained Jim'smrtee, an Arkansas bred of Lil E Tee. He told me the horse was fit and ready and would make a good account of himself. He said, "he may not win it, but he will be forcing the issue". I respected my friend as a trainer, and decided to use his horse in my trifectas. Not on top, but underneath.

Earlier, when the horses were being saddled in the infield, I noticed Jim'smrtee was dappled out, way beyond any horse I had ever seen. Those silever dollar spots were glistening in the sunshine. I ignored the odds on the board of 26-1 and with 10 minutes left, ran to the windows. I singled him (on top) in 5- $10 trifectas and put $300 to win-$200plc. I would have put more but, I had missed a couple of large bets earlier and didn't have anymore. Needless to say, Jim'smrtee won and paid $106 to win, and $33 to place. Even with the bets I made on him, he went to 53-1 before they went off. I asked Oaklawn to write me a check that day. I didn't want to walk around with all that cash.

I love it when a horse is dappled out. Unfortunately, it's hard to find one, even in Stakes races, today. And yes, you need to be at the track. You won't see it on TV, but if you do, run to the windows. (JMHO) :ThmbUp:

[Valuist]

The first thing I look for is overall attitude. Willingness to cooperate and not fight the handler. No walking short. Then I look at the coat; you want the coat to reflect sunlight, not absorb it. Its a little tougher to see on TV but its still very spotable in the post parade. The tail should not be laying flat against the horses' ass; there should be some separation. I'm not exactly sure what this means but I think its about overall health. An arched neck is always a good sign. Also when they are "on their toes its a very positive sign (despite what some TV analysts say). Some negatives: Ears pinned, sweating on a cold day (I do not mind seeing some sweat on a horse if its hot outside), fighting the handler, dull coat, pancake tail; taking a dump in the post parade or paddock generally isn't a great sign either.

A couple other things: I notice "live" horses on the tote board generally look very sharp in the paddock and post parade. This can be a strong angle. I also find physicality to work best with marginal contenders; those 6-1 to 15-1 shots that have some shot but don't figure overly strongly.

[46zilzal]

taking a dump in the post parade or paddock generally isn't a great sign either.


That is such a common finding (they are not potty trained) as to be just a natural aspect of the animal breed as a whole. The riders notice it an raise up out of the saddle. I have seen 8 out of 10 pass material from the paddock to the gate.

[saevena]

Several weeks ago, I stood next to a group of trainers in the paddock at Laurel before a race. One of the trainers, whose horse was entering the paddock, was visibly agitated about her horse. I did not pay attention to the result of that race, but when I went to the paddock after the race, the same trainer (who wins a fair percentage of starts) was there looking confused, and a group of other trainers there were laughing and joking with her about her horse. It turns out the trainer had tried to have the horse scratched before it left the paddock but had not been allowed to do so. The horse won the race at 20-1 and one of the meet's leading trainers commented that the same thing had happened to him a couple of times. If the trainer of a horse can be so wrong about the condition and winning possibilities of his/her horse, what about horseplayers who don't train the horse?

[46zilzal]

Many trainers have inflated ideas of their horse's ability because they are evaluating it in ISOLATION.

Conversely, the winner of the final leg of the Canadian Triple Crown this past Summer was entered only because the connections had already put up the fees. The trainer said the colt was being shipped to Florida for a rest before a Winter campaign and stayed with the race only as a wish of the connections. Surface change and the animal surprised all as a winner...still shipped to Florida.

[Valuist]

That is such a common finding (they are not potty trained) as to be just a natural aspect of the animal breed as a whole. The riders notice it an raise up out of the saddle. I have seen 8 out of 10 pass material from the paddock to the gate.

I wouldn't call it rare but it is nowhere near that high. Maybe one a race.

[Tape Reader]

Thank you all for those very interesting answers for my question on "dappling." Great thread!

[Robert Fischer]

I consider two types of physicallity

1. a visual judgment of the horse in general that day
2. a visual judgment of the horse in comparison with it's past visual appearance

The former is available to all with a good view and a good eye.
The later is much more advanced, and involves prior work, record keeping and recall.

Ideally a serious player would want to have at least some knowledge of a horses past appearances. Even if you noted the horse was small with a dull coat the last two times... And say that it won those two races with strong performances. = you would know not to discount the horse because of the same slightly negative characteristics today.

Same is true with the slow horse who looks like a superstar every time in the paddock = if he has proven enough times to be slow, you wouldn't get excited because he looks like a superstar once again...