Need research input on tracks

[rufus999]

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs

2. Charlestown, Penn National

3. Beaulah Park ( the 'Twins' don't count, sorry);) , Thistledown, River Downs, Hawthorne, Arlington Park.

If I get enough feedback on this I will again ask for your help regarding other track combos. Thanks.

rufus

[boomman]

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs

2. Charlestown, Penn National

3. Beaulah Park ( the 'Twins' don't count, sorry);) , Thistledown, River Downs, Hawthorne, Arlington Park.

If I get enough feedback on this I will again ask for your help regarding other track combos. Thanks.

rufus

rufus: I would also recommend that you take a look at the DRF purse values from track to track as they can be helpful when comparing how horses compare from track to track ( I cover this in detail in my first book)....

Here goes (in order from top to bottom with the top track in each category being the best quality):
1. Suffolk, Fort Erie, Finger Lakes, Mountaineer

2. Penn National, Charlestown ( I would think the opposite, but that hasn't been the case)

3. Arlington, Hawthorne, River Downs, Thistledown, and Beulah (including the twins) a distant last........

Hope this helps..........

Boomer

[Rob_in_MN]

If you check back next week this will probably change because Penn will be receiving a new purse structure and the quality of racing should increase gradually to be in par with or exceed that of Charles Town.

CT and MTR have the higher purses, followed a distance 2nd by Penn (again will change next as of Feb 12th when they re-open infused with slot money) Then Finger Lakes and Beulah - which is a very distant 5th.

[shanta]

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs
rufus

I'd rate FE horses a bit stronger than the others shown. Mnr,Fl and Suf all on equal terms with one another

[rufus999]

rufus: I would also recommend that you take a look at the DRF purse values from track to track as they can be helpful when comparing how horses compare from track to track ( I cover this in detail in my first book)....

Yes, I agree. I use the purse structure tables provided by DRF.

2. Penn National, Charlestown ( I would think the opposite, but that hasn't been the case)

Again I agree. Penn horses seem to ship quite well. Perhaps the track surface is a good conditioner. I don't know. Its puzzling.

Hope this helps..........


Boomer

Very much so... thanks.images/UBGX/E5.gif

rufus

[Cangamble]

I'm not that familiar with Suffolk, but I don't think they are faster the Finger Lakes horses in general.
I do think Fort Erie should rank highest in their category. The 5 claimers are sometimes very competitive and they run comparitively to 10k claimers at Woodbine often.
I always thought Thistle was better than River.

[boomman]

I'm not that familiar with Suffolk, but I don't think they are faster the Finger Lakes horses in general.
I do think Fort Erie should rank highest in their category. The 5 claimers are sometimes very competitive and they run comparitively to 10k claimers at Woodbine often.
I always thought Thistle was better than River.

Can: I base my ratings on the fact that Suffolk horses in general have shipped very well to Florida this winter, but do agree that The Fort Erie horses have become competitive as well....as for the Thistle horses, I would have agreed on that up to last year (being better than River), but I think River's horses have improved while Thistle's have gone the other way....Very close call though, but I'm sure we both agree that they are eons ahead of Beulah!!!!;)

Boomer

[njcurveball]

Can: I base my ratings on the fact that Suffolk horses in general have shipped very well to Florida this winter, but do agree that The Fort Erie horses have become competitive as well....as for the Thistle horses

I guess it depends on the circuit you play. My impression as someone who follows Mountaineer is that Fort Erie shippers can kick any horse coming from Suffolk. Even Thistledown horses are better than Suffolk shippers.

Perhaps it is more the trainer bringing the horses in, than the track they are coming from?

[srdnaty]

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs

2. Charlestown, Penn National

3. Beaulah Park ( the 'Twins' don't count, sorry);) , Thistledown, River Downs, Hawthorne, Arlington Park.

If I get enough feedback on this I will again ask for your help regarding other track combos. Thanks.

rufus

This may help. Its a purse value index.

[boomman]

I guess it depends on the circuit you play. My impression as someone who follows Mountaineer is that Fort Erie shippers can kick any horse coming from Suffolk. Even Thistledown horses are better than Suffolk shippers.

Perhaps it is more the trainer bringing the horses in, than the track they are coming from?

Jim: I would agree that it definitely does depend on the circuits you're playing and would suspect that there is a simple answer to the equation. The higher percentage, better Suffolk horses ship to Florida while the bottom level lower % trainers try to get a piece of the pie @ Mountaineer with significantly less stock....Also, as for the Thistledown horses at Mountaineer, I have noticed that the higher % connections tend to ship there and the close proximity to Mountaineer probably doesn't hurt matters either......This is why it's so important for new players at a track to learn the tendencies of that particluar track and how horses perform when they ship to there, whatever circuit they may have raced in prior.......;)

Boomer

[rufus999]

This may help. Its a purse value index.

Thanks much:)

rufus

[46zilzal]

Purse values at Racinos are way out of line as a yardstick for horse quality.

[boomman]

Purse values at Racinos are way out of line as a yardstick for horse quality.

46: Absolutely! The purse value index is a beginning guide only, then the real research and discussion (such as we've had here) begins.....

Boomer

[sjk]

TRACK AvgOfSR
OTC 90.9
SAR 90.5
BEI 88.9
SA 88.6
DMR 86.9
BEL 86.6
HOL 86.5
KEE 85.0
AQU 83.4
CD 82.0
AQI 81.5
GP 81.0
GG 78.7
FG 77.0
MTH 76.7
AP 75.0
OP 74.7
FPX 74.5
DEL 74.5
BM 73.9
HAW 72.9
CRC 72.8
PLN 72.6
PIM 71.9
LAD 71.3
WO 71.2
LRL 70.9
MED 70.9
LS 70.4
PID 70.2
ELP 70.0
SUN 69.8
SOL 68.0
WOI 68.0
TAM 67.9
HPO 67.8
TP 67.6
SR 67.5
PHA 65.8
ZIA 65.3
CNL 65.0
CNI 64.5
STK 63.9
RP 63.7
TUP 63.6
RUI 63.3
SRP 63.1
HOU 63.0
HST 62.9
RET 62.9
EMD 62.7
EVD 62.5
PRM 62.3
FNO 62.0
CT 61.8
ALB 61.8
TIM 61.7
DED 61.7
SUF 61.6
MNR 61.6
PEN 59.4
YAV 59.3
CBY 59.0
ARP 57.8
STP 57.7
HOO 57.3
FL 56.7
RD 56.5
NP 56.5
FON 56.4
WRD 56.4
FE 56.1
TDN 56.1
FMT 55.8
GLD 55.7
WDS 54.7
FP 54.5
FER 53.4
IND 53.3
PM 52.4
LNN 52.0
CLS 51.3
BEU 50.8
ASD 49.8
BRD 48.6

[The Bit]

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs

2. Charlestown, Penn National

3. Beaulah Park ( the 'Twins' don't count, sorry);) , Thistledown, River Downs, Hawthorne, Arlington Park.

If I get enough feedback on this I will again ask for your help regarding other track combos. Thanks.

rufus

1. Suffolk, Fort Erie, Finger Lake, the Mountain

2. Charlestown and Penn are a toss up in my opinion.

3. Arlington, Hawthorne, River, Thistle, Beulah

Penn and CTown are very close and I'd lean towards CTown if I had to make a choice, the CTown horses seems to fit in the Maryland circuit at similiar levels better than the Penn horses.

[Pell Mell]

In addition to purse value I look to the bottom level. At MNR the lowest level is 5000 claimers while at TDN it's 3500. The 3500 horses from TDN can handle the 5000 plugs at MNR and the same thinking applies to the various tracks. A lot of trainers are happier to try and get a piece of a higher purse than to shoot for a win at tracks with a lower purse value. Of course this doesn't help those of us who are looking to cash a win bet. One thing I've noticed is that HAW horses are vastly underrated because they seem to be able to win no matter where they go.

[harleyjoe13]

Check out this site it will give you all the ratings on different tracks
http://www.americanturf.com/equalization/index.cfm?showchart=1

[maxwell]

Joe13,

I find these ratings to be a little confusing.

I can't argue with the 10's but the 4's and 7's seem a little out of wack to me.

I handicap only major circuits so I could be the one out of wack. :)

I would play WO and FG before most of the other 4's and 7's.

And the 1's? ... good dog food at least. :D

[rufus999]

Check out this site it will give you all the ratings on different tracks


Interesting chart... the 10's and 7's I understand but the 4's and 1's are much too broadly defined for it to be of any use IMO. I base my evaluation of track class on purse structure going on the assumption that more money attracts better quality... how the money is raised is irrelevant... that it is there is what matters. The simple axiom is a horse won't race for less if a trainer feels it can race for more. Racing a horse where it doesn't belong is a losing proposition and it just might be the only true angle a handicapper can rely on. Anyway, thanks... I read ATM and find it very informative.:)

rufus