145.3

[john del riccio]

Ask 100 horseplayers what the distance was of a race, regarless of class, who's final time was 145.3 and 98 of them would say 1 1/16, 1m40yds, or 1m70yds. The lone rogue would probably throw in a flat mile for those race tracks where they actually run backwards.


1 1/8 mile Strub went in 145.3 for 1 1/8 miles. Its one thing for sprints to go in unbeleivably fast times over the springs, but 1 1/8 miles is a different story. This surface is way too bouncy and I for one will be looking to play AGAINST horses who perform overly well when they return to conventional dirt surfaces unless they have shown previous ability over it.

John

[Hosshead]

As I said in another thread, the first 6F in the Strub was run in 1;08.
I wish the horses in Ca. good luck in finding a "conventional dirt surface".

[DanG]

This surface is way too bouncy and I for one will be looking to play AGAINST horses who perform overly well when they return to conventional dirt surfaces unless they have shown previous ability over it.

John
Good observation John; something to track for sure.

Side note; To me this has been a complete lack of standards on management’s part. Shut it down, get it right, put the cushion back over the base, forget you ever heard the term ‘band-aid and start acting like professionals. This living ‘day to day is for children, not a world class facility with a great tradition.

[Murph]

1 1/8 mile Strub went in 145.3 for 1 1/8 miles. Its one thing for sprints to go in unbeleivably fast times over the springs, but 1 1/8 miles is a different story. This surface is way too bouncy and I for one will be looking to play AGAINST horses who perform overly well when they return to conventional dirt surfaces unless they have shown previous ability over it.

JohnWhy are you so confident to play against, John? How do we know their form
will not transfer to conventional dirt? Is it at all possible that races run under
this condition will enhance a runners overall condition?

There is so much we don't understand about what is really happening that it
will be hard to determine before hand how some of these stakes runners
will do on the ship even back to Hollywood Park.

I don't know what to do about it, time is getting short to decide too. I am leaning
to tracking the top division this season, instead of betting, because of this.

I am interested in your confidence level for your strategy though.

Murph

[jma]

Why are you so confident to play against, John? How do we know their form
will not transfer to conventional dirt? Is it at all possible that races run under
this condition will enhance a runners overall condition?

There is so much we don't understand about what is really happening that it
will be hard to determine before hand how some of these stakes runners
will do on the ship even back to Hollywood Park.

I don't know what to do about it, time is getting short to decide too. I am leaning
to tracking the top division this season, instead of betting, because of this.

I am interested in your confidence level for your strategy though.

Murph

The other problem will be, for horses that stay in California, when they'll ever run over a traditional dirt surface again...

[cnollfan]

The other problem will be, for horses that stay in California, when they'll ever run over a traditional dirt surface again...

Perhaps Bay Meadows has found its niche.

[Murph]

The other problem will be, for horses that stay in California, when they'll ever run over a traditional dirt surface again...Yes, it will jma.
I think it may encourage CA owners to stay home with their better runners at
the second level, rather than attempt to ship to a dirt track, without some
indication of form or a preference for natural dirt.

Once there is some kind of stability over the entire circut, this may not be the
case. Until there is .. handicappers will need to be careful to avoid losses and make
certain you are wagering towards some kind of established form.

It's going to take some time.

Murph

[dylbert]

1:45.3 for 9 furlongs... World's first 9F sprint!

My serious comment on Santa Anita situation is how are horse coming back from these races? Sound, sore, what?

Personally, I will continue to support traditional winter dirt racing such as FG, OP, and TAM.

[bobphilo]

What's happening at Santa Anita has nothing to do with the all-weather vs. dirt debate. We're looking at a track that was improperly installed and now is missing most of its cushion. No track, dirt or synthetic, can work in such circumstances. It may be a testimony to the safety of the surface that there have been no breakdowns with most of the cushion scrapped off, but in any case continuing to race over it is tempting fate.

It's hard to say just how form on this unique surface will transfer to other tracks, dirt or synthetic. Like Dan said, management should stop trying to squeeze this lemon and just do things right and put in the Pro-Ride surface as it was intended to be and forget this weird, and possibly dangerous patch-up.

Bob

[PaceAdvantage]

It may be a testimony to the safety of the surface that there have been no breakdowns with most of the cushion scrapped off, but in any case continuing to race over it is tempting fate.Well, that's spin that even I didn't see coming. I say you patent this line and sell it to the Cushion Track folks to use in their next brochure.

[classhandicapper]

What's happening at Santa Anita has nothing to do with the all-weather vs. dirt debate. We're looking at a track that was improperly installed and now is missing most of its cushion.

The choice of surface and the way it was installed were meant to cope with the unique conditions at SA.

Each one of the tracks that has installed one of these artificial surfaces appears to be tweaking "the formula" a little to cope with whatever problems they are having. The very fact they they "have to" tweak them to avoid some problems, strongly suggests that when the tweaking causes a national embarrassment and huge financial debacle at one of the premier tracks and meets in America, the problem should not be excused just because some people are rooting for it to work.

[john del riccio]

Why are you so confident to play against, John? How do we know their form
will not transfer to conventional dirt? Is it at all possible that races run under
this condition will enhance a runners overall condition?

There is so much we don't understand about what is really happening that it
will be hard to determine before hand how some of these stakes runners
will do on the ship even back to Hollywood Park.

I don't know what to do about it, time is getting short to decide too. I am leaning
to tracking the top division this season, instead of betting, because of this.

I am interested in your confidence level for your strategy though.

Murph

Murph,

Book my bet. I think this surface is as wacked out as I have ever seen.

John

[DanG]

Murph,

Book my bet. I think this surface is as wacked out as I have ever seen.

John
John,

Forget all that…Will this pre-game ever end!!! :D

[bobphilo]

What's happening at Santa Anita has nothing to do with the all-weather vs. dirt debate. We're looking at a track that was improperly installed and now is missing most of its cushion.

The choice of surface and the way it was installed were meant to cope with the unique conditions at SA.

Each one of the tracks that has installed one of these artificial surfaces appears to be tweaking "the formula" a little to cope with whatever problems they are having. The very fact they they "have to" tweak them to avoid some problems, strongly suggests that when the tweaking causes a national embarrassment and huge financial debacle at one of the premier tracks and meets in America, the problem should not be excused just because some people are rooting for it to work.

It is patently unfair to judge a surface based on one case where it was improperly installed. One company, which happens to be Cushion Track, screwed up. You cannot conclude from that, that all synthetic tracks are inherently flawed. Especially since there is so much evidence on how effective the surface is when done properly at other tracks. The solution is to do it right, most likely with Pro-Ride, and not go back to old dirt tracks that were killing horses in record numbers in California.

Something that is being ignored here is how many horses lives have been saved from the dramatic reduction in catastrophic breakdowns since the installation of the all-weather surfaces. This is something we should not underestimate just because so many people are rooting for the new surface to fail.

[john del riccio]

John,

Forget all that…Will this pre-game ever end!!! :D

HOLY $@*(

What a freakin' game !

John

[Murph]

Murph,

Book my bet. I think this surface is as wacked out as I have ever seen.

JohnBook your bet ?!

If you would rather not discuss the reasons for your conclusion to reject
SA polyrunners on their return to a dirt surface that's fine.

Are you under the impression that I am a bookie? I don't book anyone's
wagers and I'm not affiliated with any wagering interface or track office.
I was simply asking you to elaborate a bit on your reasoning.

Murph

[pic6vic]

Went to SA on Sat. They watered the track just before they ran the Strub. The track was playing for speed mostly except the 6th. It looked like they tightened the track just a little more.

[john del riccio]

Book your bet ?!

If you would rather not discuss the reasons for your conclusion to reject
SA polyrunners on their return to a dirt surface that's fine.

Are you under the impression that I am a bookie? I don't book anyone's
wagers and I'm not affiliated with any wagering interface or track office.
I was simply asking you to elaborate a bit on your reasoning.

Murph

Murph,

It was tongue and cheek..:) SA's surface is a psycho as Brittany !
I think that performances on this kind of surface cannot reasonably be compared to that over a conventional dirt surface. The same goes for polytracks. You'll go broke quick if you play poly horses off their poly form when they run over dirt surfaces. The same is true for the opposite scenario.


John