Turfway Park Cancels Thursday --

[joeya]

Turfway cancels Thursday card

FLORENCE, KY . . . January 24, 2008 . . . With the high forecast in the teens and wind chill expected to drop to the low single digits, Turfway Park has canceled live racing for Thursday, January 24. The track will remain open for simulcasting. Live racing is expected to resume Friday as scheduled, with first post at 5:30 pm.

[Marshall Bennett]

Seems like dirt tracks are the only tracks racing these days ???

[rastajenk]

Do you know of a dirt track in Turfway's region that is racing today? I don't.

[njcurveball]

It is a head scratcher why these tracks try to run in the Winter each year.

It would seem smarter to simply simulcast through the worst weather and save the money to have larger purses the other 10 months of the year.

It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to look at the cancellation list each year and see which tracks should take some time off in the cold weather.

[shanta]

It is a head scratcher why these tracks try to run in the Winter each year.

It would seem smarter to simply simulcast through the worst weather and save the money to have larger purses the other 10 months of the year.

It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to look at the cancellation list each year and see which tracks should take some time off in the cold weather.

Your post makes too much darn sense man.

Please don't post stuff like this in the future. Folks in the industry might actually have to acknowledge their incompetency.

[jballscalls]

Your post makes too much darn sense man.

Please don't post stuff like this in the future. Folks in the industry might actually have to acknowledge their incompetency.

Well turfway obviously cant run in the spring/summer because churchill keeneland ellis and river are all running. so if they took two months off that would leave them with only 3 months of live racing, which i'm sure goes against any agreements they have with the horsemen.

i'm sure these cancellations are more human related than track related. jockeys arent going to ride if the temps are in the teens.

[njcurveball]

Well turfway obviously cant run in the spring/summer because churchill keeneland ellis and river are all running. so if they took two months off that would leave them with only 3 months of live racing, which i'm sure goes against any agreements they have with the horsemen.

i'm sure these cancellations are more human related than track related. jockeys arent going to ride if the temps are in the teens.

3 months of racing with better purses isn't a good thing for everyone?

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

When the now-defunct Playfair Race Course (Spokane, WA) ran a three month meet in the winter of 2000 the temperatures were in the single digits for literally half the meet and they didn't cancel once. Jockeys should be able to handle the cold.

[Marshall Bennett]

Do you know of a dirt track in Turfway's region that is racing today? I don't.
Sarcasm was the theme of my post , taken in to consideration with the problems at SA and numerous cancellations at TP , both synthetic courses .

[joeya]

I think much of it has to do with Post Time. They're trying to start at 5:30pm during the dead of winter, after the sun goes down and the temps start falling.

They run early (1:00pm) on the weekends and they should probably just go to that every day throughout the winter ... at least until March when the weather starts to warm up a bit.

I know they're trying to get a larger share of the simulcast market by racing at night but when you have to cancel cards it doesn't do much for business.

[jma]

3 months of racing with better purses isn't a good thing for everyone?

Of course you're right as far as logic and for the bettors too, but as our track announcer friend pointed out, I don't imagine the horsemen or owners would agree to two months with no purse money coming in.

[rastajenk]

Actually, they have gone to afternoon racing on Weds and Thurs. I don't know if it's for the whole meet through March or just the next few weeks, but they were allowed to make that change back around Christmas.

[njcurveball]

I don't imagine the horsemen or owners would agree to two months with no purse money coming in.

I understand where you are coming from. Greed is on many sides in this game. Larger purses and time off for the horses isn't enough logic these days for most.

But it isn't like the horseman are in Kentucky Jail, they can ship at least a few places and keep racing if their horses are sound.

Do you think the trainers are loyal or will they flock to Presque Isle and Moutaineer when given the chance to race for higher purses?

[JustRalph]

Too many tracks............. That is the problem

we don't need turfway to be open right now.......warm weather tracks could increase their field sizes etc........

[Shenanigans]

The cancellation of racing at Turfway has nothing to do with the safety of the track or the track for that matter. The jockeys don't want to ride in the cold. Races use to get canceled even when there was a dirt track that was good to race on.

[Tom Barrister]

Not just Turfway, either. All nothern tracks (tracks where it regularly gets down below 20 in the winter) could be shut down from about December 15th to about February 15th. There are plenty of southern tracks that can pick up the slack.

Nor do I buy the "this is the only time of year Turfway (or any track) can get dates" logic. If there was no racing from 12-15 to 2-15, then the rest of the dates could be apportioned among the tracks that want them.

In my opinion, it's all about squeezing every last dollar out of the betting public; nothing more or less.

[PaceAdvantage]

In my opinion, it's all about squeezing every last dollar out of the betting public; nothing more or less.Either that, or trying to keep lots and lots of people employed. But hey, it's probably your theory that's the correct one....:rolleyes:

[andicap]

In New York, there are two main reasons they keep racing in the winter when common sense says it pays to take a break like they did 30 years ago.

1. The horseman. For the lesser trainers the winter is the only time of year when their stock can match up against the rest of the field. Similarly it's thje time when some owners can cash some checks as well. In the warm months, the big-name trainers like Pletcher et al dominate so much the little guys have almost no chance. Trainers who win virtually no races in the summer often do well when all the good horses go south or take a rest. So the horseman's group lobbies strongly for year-round racing.

2. The State of New York and the local municipalities. They don't make any money when the track is shut down, so they want year-round racing.

I'm not saying I agree with those reasons. In fact, I don't. It's in the best interests of racing as a whole to take a break. But that's reality.

[DanG]

In New York, there are two main reasons they keep racing in the winter when common sense says it pays to take a break like they did 30 years ago.

2. The State of New York and the local municipalities. They don't make any money when the track is shut down, so they want year-round racing.

I'm not saying I agree with those reasons. In fact, I don't. It's in the best interests of racing as a whole to take a break. But that's reality.
All true; Tough door to shut once opened…

I also remember hearing growing up that the NJ toll booth’s were only “temporary”! :rolleyes: :faint:

[jotb]

It is a head scratcher why these tracks try to run in the Winter each year.

It would seem smarter to simply simulcast through the worst weather and save the money to have larger purses the other 10 months of the year.

It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to look at the cancellation list each year and see which tracks should take some time off in the cold weather.

Hello njcurveball:

A great idea for the jocks. It's tough in cold weather for them but what are you going to do with all the horses? Turn them out for the winter or have the horseman all head south? I believe the owners would not be patient waiting until the spring while bills begin to pile up. If you turn them out for the winter then you have to bring them back to race fitness first before you hit the winners circle. This takes money and time to do.

Joe

[njcurveball]

but what are you going to do with all the horses?

Seems almost sinful to give nickel claimers a break these days, huh? Funny, you don't see them rushing Curlin and Street Sense into races at Turfway in January.

I am sure the Racing Secretary would bend over backwards to write a Stakes race to allow them to race if they beat down his door.

Why not year round football? baseball? etc. Those guys are just out getting in trouble in the off season anyway.

Shipping from Kentucky to other states is closer than you think for the good ones who still want to race. As for the Maidens and cheap claimers, let them get 2 months off. They may even prosper and win some races when they come back. :ThmbUp:

[njcurveball]

Either that, or trying to keep lots and lots of people employed.

Concession workers, seasonal tellers, parking guys, etc. Totally understand the thought, but you could make the argument for Suffolk, Monmouth, etc.

With Simulcasting the "full time" workers still have jobs. Not saying seasonal workers are not important, but many of them don't last 5 years on the job. And it isn't like a $7 an hour hot dog vendor cannot pick up work at other places in Kentucky, unless the economy there is much worse than I can imagine.

Jim

[Tom]

jotb makes a good point - not that horses need to run, but they need to eat, and the bills to care for them
continue no matter what the track does.

[jotb]

Seems almost sinful to give nickel claimers a break these days, huh? Funny, you don't see them rushing Curlin and Street Sense into races at Turfway in January.

I am sure the Racing Secretary would bend over backwards to write a Stakes race to allow them to race if they beat down his door.

Why not year round football? baseball? etc. Those guys are just out getting in trouble in the off season anyway.

Shipping from Kentucky to other states is closer than you think for the good ones who still want to race. As for the Maidens and cheap claimers, let them get 2 months off. They may even prosper and win some races when they come back. :ThmbUp:

Hello njcurveball:

Different story with better stock horses like you named above. If the trainer tells their owner we are going to wait because of possibly injury or whatever, the owners will have no problem with that. When you have these type of horses the owners know there is light at the end of the tunnel. They can wait and make the money back if they are on the shelf.

When it comes to these 5k claimers and cheap maidens it's a different story. The owners constantly want to run, run, run. The owners will even enforce the trainers to race these cheap horses in races where they don't belong. I see and hear this everyday. The owners know they are up against it but they want any kind of check they can get. So, I don't believe they will ever discontinue winter racing because these cheap horses are making a full race card. The owners won't settle for having their horses sitting on the farm waiting for the spring to comes around.

One last thing, at CT right now we have 5 days a week racing but come the summer they will back off to 4 days and then 3 days a week in the fall. Does that make any sense?

Best regards,
Joe

[jballscalls]

another thing to consider is the livelihood of the people working at the track. many people get paid per day such as gate crews, placing judges, valets, announcers, etc.

What do u want us to do, have less racing and have to get real jobs?!?!

[njcurveball]

many people get paid per day such as gate crews, placing judges, valets, announcers, etc.



How much do they get paid for coming into work and the card being canceled?

[rastajenk]

Looks like Oaklawn has canceled today, too. Shoulda gone poly. :eek:

[GlenninOhio]

If Turfway goes racino (a very real possibility) the issue of cutting back on winter dates becomes a non-starter.

In fact, the increase in the pots could well create some very real competition for the middling to better Kentucky-based stock in the winter between TP and tracks like Oaklawn and Tampa.

Note that TP is the most ideally located of all the Kentucky tracks for a racino - it can draw upon a huge Ohio base, with little danger that Ohio will legalize in the foreseeable future.

As for cutting back on TP winter dates and taking them out of the hides of the other Kentucky tracks - the Keeneland and Churchill racing dates are about as sacrosanct as they come in this business, so all you have left to cut into is Ellis Park.

[Kelso]

Jockeys should be able to handle the cold.

Perhaps ... but at least the decision is theirs to make.

The horses don't have any control over the issue at all, and I think it's cruel to force them to lather up in cold weather.

This is another example of the need for an industry-wide, national (but private) racing authority; one which would, among many other important functions, allocate schedules essentially by latitude and altitude.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's in the best interests of racing as a whole to take a break.Why, exactly? If they have the horses, and they have the trainers, and they have the owners, and they have the betting public, why is it in the best interest of racing to take a break?

[PaceAdvantage]

Concession workers, seasonal tellers, parking guys, etc. Totally understand the thought, but you could make the argument for Suffolk, Monmouth, etc.

With Simulcasting the "full time" workers still have jobs. Not saying seasonal workers are not important, but many of them don't last 5 years on the job. And it isn't like a $7 an hour hot dog vendor cannot pick up work at other places in Kentucky, unless the economy there is much worse than I can imagine.

JimIt's not just the concession workers and tellers, etc. The entire industry in the state would shrink. Obviously, with less racing, you'd need less horses, and thus the NY breeding industry takes a nice hit as well.....

There are all sorts of ramifications on people's livelihoods way beyond your $7 per hour worker.

[JustRalph]

another thing to consider is the livelihood of the people working at the track. many people get paid per day such as gate crews, placing judges, valets, announcers, etc.

What do u want us to do, have less racing and have to get real jobs?!?!

nope, I expect you to hit the simulcast area and cash some winners! :lol:

[jotb]

When the now-defunct Playfair Race Course (Spokane, WA) ran a three month meet in the winter of 2000 the temperatures were in the single digits for literally half the meet and they didn't cancel once. Jockeys should be able to handle the cold.

Every year the jockeys are riding in extreme cold temp so they can handle that type of weather. What really takes toll on the jocks is the wind and some of these racing surface have hugh clumps that constantly are hitting a jocks face. If jocks don't want to ride an evening or day card there is a good reason why. Don't forget another thing, at the smaller racetracks that have evening cards the jockeys are out there in the morning working horses. My jock the other day complained he couldn't feel his toes. I immediately told him to go home. You try getting on a horse in this type of weather and not let him run off with you. Not an easy job for sure.

Joe

[jballscalls]

nope, I expect you to hit the simulcast area and cash some winners! :lol:

i couldnt pick secretariat in the belmont.

Early i think njcurveball asked what happens if you show up and it gets cancelled. my experience has been if we dont run a race, we dont get paid. if we run a couple races and cancel, we get paid the full day. i suppose it depends on the place.

[njcurveball]

There are all sorts of ramifications on people's livelihoods way beyond your $7 per hour worker.


I think we are off the well paved road of running in a month where they KNOW they will have cancelations and moving into some dirty ditch on the side.

I am all for tracks racing, but totally against tracks canceling. I probably did not do a very good job of explaining that, so I better leave to someone with better debating skills.

[njcurveball]

Early i think njcurveball asked what happens if you show up and it gets cancelled. my experience has been if we dont run a race, we dont get paid.

That sucks! :mad: