PTC signs deal with Tampa Bay Downs

[Premier Turf Club]

Premier Turf Club is pleased to announce that it has entered into an agreement today with Tampa Bay Downs that will permit us to accept wagers on all of Tampa’s exciting races. Tampa will be available on our wagering menu tomorrow.


I think this is another; very important step in building what I hope will be the most advanced, most player-centric ADW platform around. Thanks again to our clients for their continued support. If you're still not a client, you can sign-up online at www.premierturfclub.com (http://www.premierturfclub.com/).


Ian

[BillW]

Keep it rolling Ian! :ThmbUp:

[rrbauer]

This is great news, Ian. Maybe some emails to Peter Berube helped out after all.

[ceejay]

Great news!! This one surprises me. I thought TBD made a big deal a few years ago about shutting out "rebate shops."

[njcurveball]

NEVER say NEVER!

Heck I have hopes of joining PTC from New Jersey in the next 100 years! :ThmbUp:

Congrats Ian! :ThmbUp:

[betovernetcapper]

Today there are 9 TB tracks running and with Tampa that means PTC is covering 67% of them. :jump:

[csmith]

Premier Turf Club is pleased to announce that it has entered into an agreement today with Tampa Bay Downs that will permit us to accept wagers on all of Tampa’s exciting races. Tampa will be available on our wagering menu tomorrow.


I think this is another; very important step in building what I hope will be the most advanced, most player-centric ADW platform around. Thanks again to our clients for their continued support. If you're still not a client, you can sign-up online at www.premierturfclub.com (http://www.premierturfclub.com/).


Ian

Very nice Ian..Tampa Bay Downs is only about 15 miles from my front door

[ddog]

Congrats.

Hope it brings you a bunch of new players.

Heh, if you can't PTC then MOVE.
After all, you can live anywhere,right?
:)

[Premier Turf Club]

Very nice Ian..Tampa Bay Downs is only about 15 miles from my front door

Cliff and other Florida customers.

Per Tampa's request, we will not be able to offer wagering on this signal to Florida residents.

[richrosa]

This is a huge event. Tampa's gonna love us.

[boomman]

Ian: Congratulations! This is yet another major accomplishment toward completing your mission of eventually getting every track to "come aboard"! Keep up the good work and I commend everyone at Tampa that was involved for finally making an agreement with your company that will of course, benefit the horseplayer. Better late than never!;)

Boomer

[Track Collector]

Excellent! :jump: Good work and congratuations to Ian and anyone else who made this happen. See....even getting Pha now only looks difficult, but not impossible!

[Hank]

This is Great news, PTC is weak in winter, their summer signals are strong,adding Tampa is a huge boost.:)

[trying2win]

Wow! PTC getting the Tampa Bay Downs signal. Now that's a real achievment. I was really surprised to see that announcement. Congratulations again Ian. :ThmbUp:

Sorry to see that Florida residents won't be able to bet the Tampa Bay races with PTC. Would be nice if that kind of restriction was limited to maybe within a 20 mile radius of the track for the sake of our fellow PTC Florida bettors. However, I can see the track manangement's point-of-view on that restriction.

T2W

[john del riccio]

NEVER say NEVER!

Heck I have hopes of joining PTC from New Jersey in the next 100 years! :ThmbUp:

Congrats Ian! :ThmbUp:

Jim,

I'll tell you what. The day you & I can bet through PTC, drinks are on me !

AFTER the betting is over.........:cool:

I am officially stating that I am jealous of all the players that cna play through PTC, you are very lucky.

Congrats Ian.

John

[Indulto]

Wow! PTC getting the Tampa Bay Downs signal. Now that's a real achievment. I was really surprised to see that announcement. Congratulations again Ian. :ThmbUp:

Sorry to see that Florida residents won't be able to bet the Tampa Bay races with PTC. Would be nice if that kind of restriction was limited to maybe within a 20 mile radius of the track for the sake of our fellow PTC Florida bettors. However, I can see the track manangement's point-of-view on that restriction.

T2WYou can, eh? TAM is located in a suburb North of Tampa with no direct access by public transportation on the paved road on which it is located. Many -- maybe even most -- FL horseplayers are retirees, some unable to drive. It's a very pleasant TINY facility that will always fill to seating capacity with those who CAN get there, but SCREW the rest who can't! These JERKS are just pissing away handle and not serving their community.

If I remember correctly, TAM was one of the earliest advocates against rebates, what is their position now?

Is this GP's policy also, or does DragNet also restrict FL residents? I'd sure like to see poster, Money, weigh in here.

[cj]

I believe Tampa was against places that were giving direct access to the tote, not rebates, but I could be wrong.

[Hammerhead]

Great News. Keep up the great work Ian.

[lamboguy]

he was always against "Batch Betting". he never wanted anyone to gain an edge by minipulating the odds at the last second.

premium turf club must have proved to him that they don't have these batch bettors. and more than likely the added handle will be needed in light of the recession we are in. i have noticed that handles in gulfstream are barely over $4 million during the week, and the weekends look pretty weak. NYRA is way down, and santa anita looks like a small drop.

anyway congradulations to PREMIUM TURF CLUB, you have just earned my business. if the turf club is good enough for berube, its gonna be great for me!

[PaceAdvantage]

premium turf club must have proved to him that they don't have these batch bettors. and more than likely the added handle will be needed in light of the recession we are in.Not that this is the proper forum, but we're not in a recession. People actually have to start losing lots of jobs for that to happen, real GDP has to decrease, etc. etc. But like I said, not the proper place. Lots of talk of this in off-topic. See you there....

[ezrabrooks]

I believe Tampa was against places that were giving direct access to the tote, not rebates, but I could be wrong.

You are..

Ez

[DeanT]

I think cj is correct. Batch betting, and scraping software to poach ex and other overlays was the big reason; mainly because of the bang for the buck. Berube believes in lower rakes to gain new money and growth (really, one of the few operators who have publicly stated such). He is not speaking about people like Ian in this. He isnt scraping totes or gaining an unfair edge thru technological means, he is just offering a platform where his customers' churn helps Tampa and other tracks get more handle.

From the Harness Tracks of America Conference:

http://www.harnesstracks.com/2004_annual_meeting/New_World_of_Simulcasting_Rebates_Poaching.htm

These sites generated some good handle, upwards of $100,000 per day combined and they paid a premium. They paid a higher rate than the standard three percent. Everything seemed well and good, but when we started looking at the numbers last year, we found out that these two sites combined wagered $7.4 million on Tampa last year. Their net contribution to the pools after takeout was $5.7 million. So far so good, but when you look at the winning dollars that these two sites produced last year, it was $8 million, $2.3 million over what they contributed to the pools.

...... The consensus answer, as Steve pointed out, to question number one is these are basically computerized bettors using sophisticated programs to look for pool inefficiencies, particularly in the exotic pools that people have a hard time analyzing at your racetrack. They seem to be able to gain an edge in the exotic pools. They can do the batch processing right up until the totes close to optimize their wagers. Some people would say, “What is wrong with this?” We say it is an uneven playing field and it is leading to an unbalanced network.

Therefore, this year we made the decision not to business with these guys regardless of what price they were willing to pay us. We walked away from $7.4 million in handle and roughly $300,000 worth of associated commissions. Our primary theory was that by balancing the network, kicking these guys out, putting the network back into balance, we would increase our churn as well as the public perception of Tampa Bay Downs.

The result so far, after 57 days of our 93-day meet, to date our overall handle has increased by $35 million over last year. If you take into account the two sites that we kicked out, it is in excess of a $40 million increase during the first 57 days of our meet. In all fairness, I cannot attribute all of this to the policy.

This year, we reduced our takeout by about 4.5 percent. We took two-horse wagers down from 25.9% to 22.5% and we believe this has accounted for $10 million worth of growth.

[richrosa]

Are all you guys who complained that PTC didn't have enough content opening accounts yet?

Remember, if PTC doesn't make it, this will be the last chance for an ordinary player ever to play with a rebate.

Your alternative is to get a nice mono AM/FM portable radio from the competition with an earpiece.

The only way players will win and get a better deal is if we support the companies that are trying to give us a better deal. Otherwise you are just as "stupid" as the people who run some of the ADW's think you are.

Enjoy your pocket radio!!

[Jens]

As soon as PTC is available to CA residents I'll be right there!:ThmbUp:

[Indulto]

I think cj is correct. Batch betting, and scraping software to poach ex and other overlays was the big reason; mainly because of the bang for the buck. Berube believes in lower rakes to gain new money and growth (really, one of the few operators who have publicly stated such). He is not speaking about people like Ian in this. He isnt scraping totes or gaining an unfair edge thru technological means, he is just offering a platform where his customers' churn helps Tampa and other tracks get more handle.

From the Harness Tracks of America Conference:

http://www.harnesstracks.com/2004_annual_meeting/New_World_of_Simulcasting_Rebates_Poaching.htm
http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=59407&subs=0&arc=1
Posted 9/24/2004, 7:35 pm
Two tracks plan to block rebate shops for 2nd year
By MATT HEGARTY… At least two racetracks that cut off rebate shops this year are planning to do it again during their next meets, officials of the tracks said this week.

Oaklawn Park in Arkansas and Tampa Bay Downs in Florida plan to refuse to take wagers from players who bet through rebate shops. Other tracks, however, said that they have not decided how to treat rebate shops, with some maintaining that the issue needs more study.

… Peter Berube, the general manager of Tampa Bay Downs in Florida, said on Friday that his track would once again shut out rebate shops when Tampa's meet begins on Dec. 11. Last year, Tampa asked rebate shops to pay a dramatically higher fee for the Tampa signal, and when the shops declined, Tampa cut the sites off. http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/136510-andrew-bayer-article-theres-no-discounting-inequities-rebates.html#post1136043
Thursday, January 1, 2004
There's No Discounting Inequities of Rebates
By Andrew Beyer… Peter Berube, general manager of Tampa Bay Downs, examined last season's wagers from rebate-shop customers and saw that these sophisticated players -- presumably the computer groups -- were winning at an astonishing rate relative to everybody else. "They're fleecing the rest of our customers," Berube said, "and this season we decided not to allow them access to our pools." Tampa Bay became one of the few tracks to cut off the rebate shops.

Gamblers who look at Tampa Bay's takeout rates -- 22.5 percent on exactas, 25.9 percent on trifectas -- might reasonably say that the track is equally guilty of fleecing its customers. Few horseplayers have a chance to make a profit betting against the sky-high rates that prevail at most American tracks.

Even though rebate-shop customers are being treated much better than the majority of on-track players, Wolff maintained that the current system makes sense. "Racing is like a lot of businesses in which they best customers get the best deals," he said. "Rebates are targeted to the people who need them most. In an ideal world, though, takeouts would be a lot lower and that would be the end of it."

Indeed, the success of the rebate shops underscores the fact that the American racing industry, with its high takeout, is its own worst enemy. By taking 20 percent of every dollar they bankrupt or discourage most of their customers. If, instead, tracks charged 10 percent, those same customers would be betting maniacally because they knew they had a fair chance to win.http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=20658&subs=0&arc=1
Posted 8/10/2000, 12:00 am
Tracks say rebates steal high rollers
By Matt Hegarty… "Rebating is a purely acceptable, good business practice, except that it skews the way the business is done," said Paul Berube, the president of the Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau. "The racetracks lose the cut they would get if the bet was on track, and some of these outlets don't have to do anything to support live racing."Maybe it’s a family thing. ;)

[DeanT]

Thanks Indulto.

I am not sure if you are trying to disagree with my statement or not. I don't think you are, since most of what you posted says what I posted :)

He is obviously not against lowering rakes to increase handles and not against rebates per se if they add to the pools. His namesake is also indubitably speaking of pirating in that last quote. Ian and others most certainly add to pools and support purses.

[Indulto]

Cliff and other Florida customers.

Per Tampa's request, we will not be able to offer wagering on this signal to Florida residents.PTC,
In which states are residents currently subjected to the fewest restrictions when using your service, e.g., TAM's locking out FL residents?

[Pace Cap'n]

I'm thinking that at the time of the cut-off, the only rebate shops were of the offshore variety.

[cj]

You are..

Ez

Gee, such an informative reply. Why did you actually bother with that?

[richrosa]

I just checked.

PTC has every track that YouBet has running today except for AQU.

Don't forget!! If you play at YouBet, you get a YouBet monogrammed chef's apron that you can use when you are burning your hot dogs on your grill.

[bigmack]

Don't forget!! If you play at YouBet, you get a YouBet monogrammed chef's apron that you can use when you are burning your hot dogs on your grill.
Good point, R2.

I purposefully burn dogs til they're considered "vulcanized" out of spite for what they contain.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/15-4.jpg

[Javagold]

PTC biggest problems are still lack of major thoroughbred racing and alot of states not able to wager at PTC.
if they ever really open ADW to everyone, PTC may be the king of the mountain, which leads me to believe the creeps at Tracknet will never open up to everyone

[Premier Turf Club]

Good point, R2.

I purposefully burn dogs til they're considered "vulcanized" out of spite for what they contain.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/15-4.jpg

I think I could live on a diet of Nathan's dogs. Probably taking years off my life...

[Indulto]

I just checked.

PTC has every track that YouBet has running today except for AQU. ...rr,
I hope you're not campaigning for the position of marketing director at PTC, because we don't want more soft spin, we want to be able to bet more horses like Hard Spun (prior to his premature retirement). So how about more truth in advertising by listing current meets offered by both.... Remember, if PTC doesn't make it, this will be the last chance for an ordinary player ever to play with a rebate.

... The only way players will win and get a better deal is if we support the companies that are trying to give us a better deal. Otherwise you are just as "stupid" as the people who run some of the ADW's think you are. ...Don't continue the misconception that any horseplayers are "ordinary." All of us may not have the "extraordinary" means and information technology available to some, but we gather here because we are fortunate enough to share at least one passion in life that lifts us out of the "ordinary" struggle for survival through reward, and for some, recognition.

We aren't "stupid." Many here are frustrated that PTC is unable to compete for our wagered dollar, but in places where they can use PTC (but choose not to) you need to find out what their reasons are rather than insult them.

Some of my racetrack acquaintances here in CA who are not PA posters perceived PTC's failure to appear at the CHRB meetings to fight publicly for a piece of the pie (and gain national recognition in the process), showed both an inability (too small) and an unwillingness to pursue their business. I think this is a misconception on their part, but one which could prove an impediment once PTC does get here.

People stay with Internet Explorer rather than FireFox because they are resistant to change, The same must be true of ADW users with regard to vendors. If rebates are the main difference in service you want to stress, then do so in a way non-professionals will understand and accept. No simplistic examples that can be easily dismissed.

But above all, never disrespect us -- even tongue-in-cheek. That would make you as "@#$%^&" as some rival ADW personnel. ;)

[Premier Turf Club]

Some of my racetrack acquaintances here in CA who are not PA posters perceived PTC's failure to appear at the CHRB meetings to fight publicly for a piece of the pie (and gain national recognition in the process), showed both an inability (too small) and an unwillingness to pursue their business. I think this is a misconception on their part, but one which could prove an impediment once PTC does get here.

I think 2008 will be a year of change for the industry, and a big year for PTC. Our goal for 2007 was to build a state-of-the-art internet platform. I think we've succeeded in that area, unfortunately we were not able to fight every battle, e.g. California. This represents neither an inability or unwillingness to ultimately do so. One of my favorite sayings, one I borrowed from my quant professor is that "life is a series of constrained optimizations." In 2007 we did what we thought we needed to do, focusing on infrastructure first. 2008 has seen us add about dozen signals (OK if you count late December '07). I'm confident we will continue to add content during 2008.


We’re building something for the long term and 2007 was all part of a plan. I pleased with where we've gotten in 12 months, but I know there's still a long way to go.

[richrosa]

But above all, never disrespect us -- even tongue-in-cheek. That would make you as "@#$%^&" as some rival ADW personnel. ;)

Lets be clear, its not I who think "we" are stupid, rather that quote is attributed to a senior executive at a major ADW and reused here without permission for emphasis.

I'm sorry you can't use PTC.

Oh, marketing is not my schtick. If it was you would be using HOS and I wouldn't have to go to work on Monday.

[prospector]

I think PTC has done an excellent job this first year...but, then again, maybe i'm looking at it different than most others...i'm with PTC
i'm not going looking for racetracks to bet..i'm betting the ones that come to me..if they're not with PTC, they don't get any bets..period
i don't care about calif tracks nor NY tracks...i adapt to what i've got..
i'm happy
it is sad that not all states will allow betting..maybe time to ask your state reps before the next election where they stand on that..

[highnote]

However, I can see the track manangement's point-of-view on that restriction.


I can understand wanting to get people to come to the track, but what if you can't drive or are home bound? To me, it sounds like discrimination.

But then again, the elderly and the disabled are frequently targets of discrimination.

Is Tampa Bay doing anything to reach out to this population of horseplayers?

Maybe Florida residents can open an account with Connecticut-OTB? They have the Tampa Bay signal. http://www.ctotb.com/schedule.asp

If I was a FL resident and wanted to bet TB, I'd contact every ADW until I found one that would take my action.

If I couldn't find one, I'd ask around town -- there must be a bookie somewhere in Florida that would take your action. ;)

[DanG]

If I couldn't find one, I'd ask around town -- there must be a bookie somewhere in Florida that would take your action. ;)
Shhh…

You didn’t hear it from me…;)

http://mavrixonline.com/mavrixonline/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/12/blog_tony_sircio14.jpg