2007---US Handle Down-Purses Up

[trigger]

"Handle in 2007 declined 0.37% to $14,727,170,578 in comparison to 2006, while purses jumped 5.5% to $1,177,782,612, according to a release jointly issued by the two groups. Wagering on U.S. races includes worldwide commingled pools and some separate pools in Canada."
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=43166

This is the reverse of several years ago when the 2004 NYRA Task Force report talked about "Handle Up-Purses Down".
Perhaps Tracknet's strategy of negotiating better signal prices is being felt?

[acorn54]

personally i wagered less after pinnacle closed down to american bettors
don't really plan on betting alot in 2008 either. until and unless my r.o.i. recovers from the rebate loss i incurred of 7 percent with the demise of pinnacle betting.

[njcurveball]

Purse money benefited from Slot money. Unfortunately, tracks catered to those new players and lost a lot of good ones.

Why are they flat? Are we suffering leakage?

WHY is this guy in charge of anything if he cannot figure out these simple things?

[shanta]

Purse money benefited from Slot money. Unfortunately, tracks catered to those new players and lost a lot of good ones.

Why are they flat? Are we suffering leakage?

WHY is this guy in charge of anything if he cannot figure out these simple things?


This is one of his finer moments:
Marzelli said he couldn’t speculate if the “signal wars” of 2007 hampered overall handle. With the advent last year of TrackNet Media Group, the joint content venture of Churchill Downs Inc. and Magna Entertainment Corp., certain advance deposit wagering entities and other betting outlets weren’t able to carry racing signals to which they had previous access.

:bang: :bang:

[DeanT]

Purses are up because of slots.

Handle is down because we don't know what we are doing and have no clue how to run wagering businesses.

[Kelso]

From the article:
(Jockey Club President/CEO Alan Marzelli said) “I’m sorry to say that our tote systems are such that we don’t have good control of knowing where those revenues are coming from. And if you don’t have good control, it makes it difficult to analyze the business, and what is driving the business.”

********************

Allow me to help, Mr. Marzelli. Handle comes from either on-track or off-track sources. Off-track sources are either simulcast tracks, OTBs or ADWs. Each source is supposed to be identifiably connected to the pertinent tote systems.

If the horse racing industry does not know, promptly and to the penny, the sources of and amounts contributed to every pool of every race at every track ... then how in hell are bettors to have any confidence that the amounts paid out bear any resemblence at all to the amounts paid into those pools?!?

This is outrageous. You should be deeply embarrased by your claim, Mr. Marzelli. You should also resign immediately and repay to the Jockey Club every cent they have paid you as President/CEO, as you have failed miserably at that job.

Senator Kyle ... your witness.

[happy1]

From the article:
(Jockey Club President/CEO Alan Marzelli said) “I’m sorry to say that our tote systems are such that we don’t have good control of knowing where those revenues are coming from. And if you don’t have good control, it makes it difficult to analyze the business, and what is driving the business.”

********************

Allow me to help, Mr. Marzelli. Handle comes from either on-track or off-track sources. Off-track sources are either simulcast tracks, OTBs or ADWs. Each source is supposed to be identifiably connected to the pertinent tote systems.

If the horse racing industry does not know, promptly and to the penny, the sources of and amounts contributed to every pool of every race at every track ... then how in hell are bettors to have any confidence that the amounts paid out bear any resemblence at all to the amounts paid into those pools?!?

This is outrageous. You should be deeply embarrased by your claim, Mr. Marzelli. You should also resign immediately and repay to the Jockey Club every cent they have paid you as President/CEO, as you have failed miserably at that job.

Senator Kyle ... your witness.

I believe he means; are the sources "22 y/o single females" or "55 y/o male retireies." basically if you read it all he is speaking of demographics and why the demographics are changing and what are they changing to. I think maybe the NTRA is supposed to have a handle on this kind of info.

[Kelso]

I believe he means; are the sources "22 y/o single females" or "55 y/o male retireies." basically if you read it all he is speaking of demographics and why the demographics are changing and what are they changing to. I think maybe the NTRA is supposed to have a handle on this kind of info.

Perhaps you're correct, Happy. In fact, I hope you are.

The context in which I drew a different understanding came from both earlier and later in the article:

Earlier - "there isn’t proper cooperative technology in place to accurately analyze the handle figures."

Later - "For example, all-sources wagering on the 2007 Kentucky Derby card declined more than $7 million, or 4.1%, from the record 2006 total of $175,129,090. Companies shut out from the 2007 Derby card included TVG and Youbet.com, which combined accounted for more than $11 million in wagers in 2006. All-sources handle was also down about $29 million on the 2007 Breeders’ Cup World Championships from the previous year. Most ADWs had the signal, though some only secured deals in the final days prior to the event."

Still, while I hope your read is correct, Marzelli should pack it in if it hasn't occured to him long before this to do whatever is necessary to understand his industry's customers ... who they are and what they want.

[rrbauer]

From the article:
(Jockey Club President/CEO Alan Marzelli said) “I’m sorry to say that our tote systems are such that we don’t have good control of knowing where those revenues are coming from. And if you don’t have good control, it makes it difficult to analyze the business, and what is driving the business.”

********************

Allow me to help, Mr. Marzelli. Handle comes from either on-track or off-track sources. Off-track sources are either simulcast tracks, OTBs or ADWs. Each source is supposed to be identifiably connected to the pertinent tote systems.

If the horse racing industry does not know, promptly and to the penny, the sources of and amounts contributed to every pool of every race at every track ... then how in hell are bettors to have any confidence that the amounts paid out bear any resemblence at all to the amounts paid into those pools?!?

This is outrageous. You should be deeply embarrased by your claim, Mr. Marzelli. You should also resign immediately and repay to the Jockey Club every cent they have paid you as President/CEO, as you have failed miserably at that job.

Senator Kyle ... your witness.

A few years ago when I was in California and pestering the CHRB board members every chance I got, I was told by board member Roger Licht that they were unable to find out from the Hollywood Park mutuel department a distribution of the ticket sizes (in bet dollars) of winning Pick6 tickets. Requesting this information by the CHRB was in response to routine complaints that big players, playing big tickets, were the primary winners of Pick6 pots. It was amazing to me that the outfit charged with regulation and oversight of the industry in Calif would accept that answer and let the issue die.

There are niches of "found" money that basically get reported down in the bowels of some required government report and the information quietly dies there. Two blatant examples are breakage and uncashed tickets. The recepients of those monies vary from state to state and are seldom publicized. Those monies belong to horseplayers, but it isn't the horseplayers who are receiving them.

[trigger]

Perhaps you're correct, Happy. In fact, I hope you are.

The context in which I drew a different understanding came from both earlier and later in the article:

Earlier - "there isn’t proper cooperative technology in place to accurately analyze the handle figures."

Later - "For example, all-sources wagering on the 2007 Kentucky Derby card declined more than $7 million, or 4.1%, from the record 2006 total of $175,129,090. Companies shut out from the 2007 Derby card included TVG and Youbet.com, which combined accounted for more than $11 million in wagers in 2006. All-sources handle was also down about $29 million on the 2007 Breeders’ Cup World Championships from the previous year. Most ADWs had the signal, though some only secured deals in the final days prior to the event."

Still, while I hope your read is correct, Marzelli should pack it in if it hasn't occured to him long before this to do whatever is necessary to understand his industry's customers ... who they are and what they want.

I think what Marzelli is referring to is the system does spit out details on how how much each type of handle(on track, adw, guest tracks, whale adw's, otb's, slots, etc.) generated in purse/track money.....he does know that ,even with all the ADW problems, handle is down but purses(and, assumedly, the track's cut) is up 5%.
There is not a shadow of doubt that the tote system needs to be greatly improved (something the racing industry promised about 4 years ago) but it is kind of amazing that net revenue to the horsemen (and tracks) went up so much in 2007 despite all the problems.

[jillybeans]

Guaranteed that the last quarter pari-mutuels results were down significantly after at least sixty high volume horseplayers had their front doors kicked in by our US Homeland Security department:D

[DeanT]

it is kind of amazing that net revenue to the horsemen (and tracks) went up so much in 2007 despite all the problems.

Eghad! What in heavens name is amazing?

SLOTS! It says so in the article. "The robust growth in purses was clearly aided by revenue from racinos".

Not tracknet, or some backwards 1920 revenue mix, not kicking players out of the pool.

SLOTS!

[lamboguy]

thank you tracknet and friends, you have kept me from playing all of your tracks, i no longer play deleware and nyra.

from a 365 day a year player, i now only play beulah, turf paradise, sunland and west virginia tracks. not only did tracknet and greinds lose me, they have lost aobut 15 of my friends. last time i went to the racetrack i saw mybe 300 old me beting one dollar tri-keys every race. the track i went to charged $2.25 for a stale cup of cofee, $2.75 for a soggy hot dog, and tried like hell to get me for a $3.00 admission.

my conservetive estimate is that between myself and my few friends, the race tracks across america has lost about $3 million a year in wagering handle if no more. i wonder how many other people have friends like mine that have cut back on their wagering due to tracknet.

if the racing business doesn't change real soon, this time next year they will be claiming more than a 10% decrease in handles year to year!

let me state one more fact, when you lose these customers and piss them off like you have, you will have a tough time getting them back. people are not like computers or television sets, if you don't treat them right they find somewhere else to go that is friendly to them! and they don't come back

[trigger]

Eghad! What in heavens name is amazing?

SLOTS! It says so in the article. "The robust growth in purses was clearly aided by revenue from racinos".

Not tracknet, or some backwards 1920 revenue mix, not kicking players out of the pool.

SLOTS!

A $65,000,000 increase in purses is a lot of slots aid!!!!

[Indulto]

Guaranteed that the last quarter pari-mutuels results were down significantly after at least sixty high volume horseplayers had their front doors kicked in by our US Homeland Security department:DHey Jilly,
Have you been talking to Moran? ;)

http://paulmoranattheraces.blogspot.com/2008/01/follow-money.html
Follow the money
By Paul MoranA horseplayer friend, who will remain nameless, called yesterday after reading an item that revealed a decline in wagering during 2007 ...

... “I’m surprised it’s not more,” he said.

... What part of this is a surprise? These people didn’t stop playing just because some racetracks are no longer doing business with rebate shops. Bookmakers have rushed to fill the void and none of that money finds its way to betting pools in the United States.”

... “I was a client of Pinnacle Sports,” my friend said. “Pinnacle rebated four percent on all my action in New York, which amounts to about $5,000 in an average week. In this game, I’m a small player. I was not betting in St. Kitts. I just didn’t bet enough money for them. But in the course of a year I’ll bet almost a quarter of a million dollars. Pinnacle’s decision was a blow to a lot of people who aren’t exactly whales but play on a serious level. This is part of my livelihood and I take the business part seriously.

... “But that wasn’t true of everyone. So now, I’m only getting three percent rebated, but it’s still better than anything available here. I don’t want to live in Nevada and what am I going to get there? Free food? If my account was at NYRA, I’d get reward points. That’s fine for some people, but on any day I’m betting, I get cash credited to my account. Cash is still king. Bring back the off-shore money, compete with the rebate shops because the rebate shops attract a high level of clientele, and that money will come back.”

... The erosive declines in betting handle may untraceable with the fragmented unshared technology of an industry often at war with itself, but anecdotal evidence suggests that a great deal of money is finding its way to Costa Rica and the Caribbean islands on which bookmakers operate legally.

[Cangamble]

A $65,000,000 increase in purses is a lot of slots aid!!!!
And that is where the increased purses are coming from. Look at the new states that climbed aboard the Slot Express last year.

With all the technological advancements and the availability of the product to the general public, the racing industry should hang their head in shame due to the lack of growth in wagering.

It could get worse.

Could you imagine minute wagering would be if you took the whales out of the game?

[DeanT]

A $65,000,000 increase in purses is a lot of slots aid!!!!

In Ontario 150M is slot money to purses. PA came online and were at full capacity last year for both breeds. $1B went to property tax relief there from slots. That is their slice. I am not sure what the slice is for tracks, but it is more than Ontario I would bet.

The money slots add are mind numbing.

Everyone seems to get their share, sans the player.

[DeanT]

Thanks for that Moran link Indulto. I had not read him this week!

That is a salient point, imo. And it goes to our discussions about rebating smaller players. I once knew a guy, and this is no joke, who put $50 in his pinnacle account. He played for six months with a 7% rebate. He ended up losing his $50, but he played and played and played, betting thousands. At the end of it, he said "I think I can win at this game with some help. If I placed in a bigger bankroll, I think I could become an every day player".

Pure rebate shops help people win. When I hear the tracks say "if we could just shut them all down life would be good" I cringe, because they are missing the point - these people would not be able to become every day players without 7% help. They would be broke and not come back. They will never join pools at the track and win.

Ian and others get this. The powers that be seem to ignore it, hence horseplayer anger.

Anyway, thanks again for the link.

[BillW]

As an example PHA purses have sky rocketed ($40K Maiden purses up from $20K last year) while horse players have been shoved aside. This is without the kind help of tracknet! :bang:

[rrbauer]

As an example PHA purses have sky rocketed ($40K Maiden purses up from $20K last year) while horse players have been shoved aside. This is without the kind help of tracknet! :bang:

Exactly. Track operators get more. Horse owners get more. Horse players get the green weenie! And, from one of the highest takeout venues in the game.

Handle will continue to trend downward as the racing game becomes all about taking care of the "casino" side of the business and the racetrack side deteriorates. Horseplayers will continue to die and otherwise drift away from the game because they have become the forgotten partner in the "partnership". Handle will continue to decline.

Ultimately, when the pols see how much money the racing game is getting from the "casino" side of the business they will simply restructure the licensing deals to redirect more of the money into the states' general funds. This, combined with the declining handle, of course, will be a wakeup call to the racetrack operators to try and reinvent their pari-mutuel business. That will be like closing the barn door after the animal has escaped!

Follow the slots' trail in Maryland for an idea about the changing landscape. Well over 50% of the people polled DO NOT THINK THAT USING SLOT MONEY TO SUBSIDIZE HORSE RACING IS A GOOD IDEA!

[Javagold]

and another way players are getting screwed, that no one seems to mention, with these higher purses these trainers/owners are claiming horses and stuffing them down 1-2 levels, because the purses are still damn good at a lower level, it doesnt matter if someone claims the horse away. And this is just another screw job toi trying to handicap, this once great game. It now has become a game of lottery numbers. In the past i see a horse drop even $2500 dollars , i put an X thru his name, in 2008 with slot money purses , they all seem to win. Horse racing has so many problems, i see no way they make it out of this mess in the next 10 years !

[njcurveball]

and another way players are getting screwed, that no one seems to mention, with these higher purses these trainers/owners are claiming horses and stuffing them down 1-2 levels, because the purses are still damn good at a lower level, it doesnt matter if someone claims the horse away.


Very good point for the bettors and also the health of the horses. :ThmbUp:

If a trainer has to win a few races to get his money back, he certainly be much more careful and treat the horse bettor.

Claim, drop, get the purse, and lose the horse means he will overlook any long term concerns for the horses health!

Also a good piece of information if they ever decide to study breakdowns at the source (the stable) rather than always accuse the surface.

[Cangamble]

and another way players are getting screwed, that no one seems to mention, with these higher purses these trainers/owners are claiming horses and stuffing them down 1-2 levels, because the purses are still damn good at a lower level, it doesnt matter if someone claims the horse away. And this is just another screw job toi trying to handicap, this once great game. It now has become a game of lottery numbers. In the past i see a horse drop even $2500 dollars , i put an X thru his name, in 2008 with slot money purses , they all seem to win. Horse racing has so many problems, i see no way they make it out of this mess in the next 10 years !

Good points, but these drop situations happen regardless of the posts. I am a supporter of higher purses for the bottom claimers because it costs owners the same amount regardless of what it is running for. This isn't just about the trainers. If the owner sees a horse go off and do well because the trainer was just looking for a win, that trainer may have to look for a new owner.

Economically, to attract new blood to the game (new owners and their friends), keeping the new owners losses down is a must, especially when slots are funding most of the purses. That is why a lively low end claiming game is potentially a good thing.

[DeanT]

Classic article posted by equidaily!

http://www.troyrecord.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/BigDaily?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FTRD%2FSports%2FHorse+Racing&r21.content=%2FTRD%2FSports%2FHorse+Racing%2FTopSt oryList_Story_1440676

[rrbauer]

Good points, but these drop situations happen regardless of the posts. I am a supporter of higher purses for the bottom claimers because it costs owners the same amount regardless of what it is running for. This isn't just about the trainers. If the owner sees a horse go off and do well because the trainer was just looking for a win, that trainer may have to look for a new owner.

Economically, to attract new blood to the game (new owners and their friends), keeping the new owners losses down is a must, especially when slots are funding most of the purses. That is why a lively low end claiming game is potentially a good thing.

Too many races spreads purse money too thin and dilutes the takeout pool available for purses. Reduce the number of races. Allocate the same amount of bet money over fewer races and you have bigger pots for everyone. Why would anyone want to get into a business that has a history of 80% of the owners losing money? If any of my friends came up and suggested that I invest in their horse-owner partnerships, I'd punch them in the nose. With friends like those......you know the rest!

[whobet]

Purses are up because of slots.

Handle is down because we don't know what we are doing and have no clue how to run wagering businesses.

I agree, but all tracks care about is getting slots,

and slots may increase Purses,

but they kill betting interests