NEW impeachment call

[46zilzal]

from McGovern of all folks.
"In a more fundamental sense, American democracy has been derailed throughout the Bush-Cheney regime. The dominant commitment of the administration has been a murderous, illegal, nonsensical war against Iraq. That irresponsible venture has killed almost 4,000 Americans, left many times that number mentally or physically crippled, claimed the lives of an estimated 600,000 Iraqis (according to a careful October 2006 study from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health) and laid waste their country. The financial cost to the United States is now $250 million a day and is expected to exceed a total of $1 trillion, most of which we have borrowed from the Chinese and others as our national debt has now climbed above $9 trillion -- by far the highest in our national history.

All of this has been done without the declaration of war from Congress that the Constitution clearly requires, in defiance of the U.N. Charter and in violation of international law. This reckless disregard for life and property, as well as constitutional law, has been accompanied by the abuse of prisoners, including systematic torture, in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions of 1949."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/04/AR2008010404308_pf.html

[Snag]

46, what's "NEW" about any of this?

[ArlJim78]

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

[JustRalph]

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

:sleeping: :sleeping:

was he crying when he made this statement..............

[Gittup]

Despite the fact that George McGovern remained silent during the Nixon/Agnew
junta, so as to not appear to be vengeful, it is at this moment in history that he feels compelled to speak in favor of impeachment of Bush/Cheney.
All I can say is that I applaud you Mr. McGovern!:jump:
You obviously love this great country and seek to protect it from "evil doers".

[ArlJim78]

:sleeping: :sleeping:

was he crying when he made this statement..............
are you thinking of Muskie? he was the cryer.

[kenwoodallpromos]

McGovern- "the Hurricane Katrina catastrophe. The veteran CNN commentator Jack Cafferty condenses it to a sentence: "I have never ever seen anything as badly bungled and poorly handled as this situation in New Orleans." ****Any impeachment proceeding must include**** a careful and critical look at the collapse of presidential leadership in response to perhaps the worst natural disaster in U.S. history."
As you all know, I support the impeachment of any President or Vice President for any reason. I still do!

[Marshall Bennett]

McGovern's own mouth trashed his own candidacy prior to the 72 election . Who in their right mind would listen to him 35 years later . Despite what a disaster Nixon turned out to be , thank God he got elected !!

[JustRalph]

are you thinking of Muskie? he was the cryer.

Ding!! I stand corrected!! Thanks!

[Gittup]

McGovern's own mouth trashed his own candidacy prior to the 72 election . Who in their right mind would listen to him 35 years later . Despite what a disaster Nixon turned out to be , thank God he got elected !!
I don't know what you're smokin'. McGovern would have ended the Vietnam debacle and spared more than 30,000 American military lives. "Thank God that Nixon got elected"????? Geesh!!!!!!!!!! THANK GOD HE RESIGNED IN DISGRACE BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER OF MANY MORE OCCURRED!!!!!!!!!!!
George still speaks the truth, though some might not want to hear it.:p

[bigmack]

Of the 58,000 deaths in Vietnam, 20,000 occurred during the Nixon and Ford years. 11% coming from the great State of California.

In the knottiness of a conflict such as VM was, children point fingers of blame and the adult world accepts that it was not an easy time for anyone.

[46zilzal]

In the Vietnam war, the government got CAUGHT selling an overt lie. It was exposed but took several years of protests before the rank and file (sound familiar?) understood what had happened.

Same bull shit we have today. Seven of that 11% came from my high school graduation class.
The physical for that draft was a joke: you were run through in a few minutes and the guy who took our blood pressure surely was registered in the Guiness book of world records for speed and total inaccuracy.

[Lefty]

Boy howdy, it's true, you dimdems are heavily into recycling. It's apparant because you just keep on chewing the same old "CUD" over and over and over...

[Tom]

McGovern is about as relevant today as he was on election day 1972.
Did he cary any states at all? I heard he might have carried a few north/south streets in Bakersfield.:lol:

[jonnielu]

from McGovern of all folks.
"In a more fundamental sense, American democracy has been derailed throughout the Bush-Cheney regime.

Thank God, who made America a democracy anyway, and since when has it ever been one? A Roosevelt executive order perhaps?


The dominant commitment of the administration has been a murderous, illegal, nonsensical war against Iraq. That irresponsible venture has killed almost 4,000 Americans, left many times that number mentally or physically crippled, claimed the lives of an estimated 600,000 Iraqis (according to a careful October 2006 study from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health) and laid waste their country.

What did you think you were hiring a federal government for, if not to do your dirty work, with your license and authority?

The financial cost to the United States is now $250 million a day and is expected to exceed a total of $1 trillion, most of which we have borrowed from the Chinese and others as our national debt has now climbed above $9 trillion -- by far the highest in our national history.

Please.... why would we need to borrow anything from anybody? National debt to who?

All of this has been done without the declaration of war from Congress that the Constitution clearly requires, in defiance of the U.N. Charter and in violation of international law.

When did the Constitution become secondary to the U.N. charter and the law of various other dictators? The President is exercising Constitutional powers.

This reckless disregard for life and property, as well as constitutional law, has been accompanied by the abuse of prisoners, including systematic torture, in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions of 1949."

Spend 20 minutes reading the Constitution.... please.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/04/AR2008010404308_pf.html

While you are at it, try reading the Declaration of Independence also. That was not earned by crying and sniveling.

jdl

[Marshall Bennett]

I don't know what you're smokin'. McGovern would have ended the Vietnam debacle and spared more than 30,000 American military lives. "Thank God that Nixon got elected"????? Geesh!!!!!!!!!! THANK GOD HE RESIGNED IN DISGRACE BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER OF MANY MORE OCCURRED!!!!!!!!!!!
George still speaks the truth, though some might not want to hear it.:p
You must be smokin' the same crap the folks of Massachusetts were . That was the only state he carried . The guy was a moron , still is !! His goal was to socialize the country , sell off the military , and send us back a hundred years !!
The worst performance EVER by a presidential candidate ( 17 electorial votes ) .
Really no wonder !!

[Gittup]

You must be smokin' the same crap the folks of Massachusetts were . That was the only state he carried . The guy was a moron , still is !! His goal was to socialize the country , sell off the military , and send us back a hundred years !!
The worst performance EVER by a presidential candidate ( 17 electorial votes ) .
Really no wonder !!
Despite the fact that many did not believe the truths McGovern stated then as now, at least he didn't need a "full and unconditional pardon" from a president that was appointed to the vice presidency by the perpetrator (perp-a-traitor).
Sell off the military???? Umm, ever heard of Blackwater?

[Tom]

While you are at it, try reading the Declaration of Independence also. That was not earned by crying and sniveling.

jdl


Now that was very well put!
:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[Marshall Bennett]

Actually two other candidates since 1920 carried fewer electorial votes so I stand corrected there . As for Blackwater , I see no connection in as far as the argument goes . The man was politically retarted , plain & simple !!

[46zilzal]

Actually two other candidates since 1920 carried fewer electorial votes so I stand corrected there . As for Blackwater , I see no connection in as far as the argument goes . The man was politically retarted , plain & simple !!
Does that mean a tart twice?

or never using the word retarded once?

Or re-started without the "s?"

[Gittup]

Actually two other candidates since 1920 carried fewer electorial votes so I stand corrected there . As for Blackwater , I see no connection in as far as the argument goes . The man was politically retarted , plain & simple !!
Actually, you were the one that brought the topic of "selling off the military".
See your post #16.
Dubbya did in fact "sell off the military" by bringing in the mercenaries of Blackwater. Reminds me of the Hessians during the Revolution, and will be equally as effective. For what it's worth, occupiers only foster resentment and resistance from those of the country they occupy. It happened then, it continues to happen now.

[delayjf]

Dubbya did in fact "sell off the military" by bringing in the mercenaries of Blackwater.
How is the use of a private security firm "selling off the Military". Blackwater has had 30 employees killed in Iraq. I can understand how those that hate the US Military would be upset that those 30 were not US soldiers, but I don't see how this amounts to selling off the military.

[46zilzal]

You (a corporal) are busting your ass getting shot at for $400/mth and Blackwater man up the street is doing it for $2500......

I would feel that I had been sold out.

[Marshall Bennett]

Does that mean a tart twice?

or never using the word retarded once?

Or re-started without the "s?"
So Sorry !! Didn't know spelling was such a major issue in this forum . At least it hasn't been up till now . I'll keep a dictionary on hand for now on just for your benefit !!

[ddog]

Of the 58,000 deaths in Vietnam, 20,000 occurred during the Nixon and Ford years. 11% coming from the great State of California.

In the knottiness of a conflict such as VM was, children point fingers of blame and the adult world accepts that it was not an easy time for anyone.and tries to learn from the experience instead of adopting a cavalier attitude toward the suffering of others.

[ddog]

How is the use of a private security firm "selling off the Military". Blackwater has had 30 employees killed in Iraq. I can understand how those that hate the US Military would be upset that those 30 were not US soldiers, but I don't see how this amounts to selling off the military.

You can bury your head all you want , but the Military is concerned about this type of stuff.
We train them up and get them the experience and then when they are ready for the road to the top commands and the most difficult to find specialists they are then enticed with money to leave when they are the most valuable to the military and go to work for outside firms.

By understaffing the effort and going back on the contracts stated to the people in the field, stop loss,etc. we are forcing many of the best and most highy trained OUT of where we need them.

It is a foolhardy strategy for national security, if one could even claim it was a strategy.

In less than 5 years it wil have been seen to be just so.
Book it, Dano!.

[delayjf]

Agreed, we need to pay our Armed Forces more, but in this case I'm focused on the fact that 30 American Soldiers were not killed. At least the Blackwater employees had a choice to be there or not.

By hiring firms like Blackwater, the US does not have to deploy another Battalion size unit (800 people)to Iraq to handle security. From that perspective, I can understand how the US might opt for the former. Now given the political fallout resulting from the shootings - perhaps its not worth it after all. Sometimes things look good on paper but don't work out as advertised.

[Gittup]

Agreed, we need to pay our Armed Forces more, but in this case I'm focused on the fact that 30 American Soldiers were not killed. At least the Blackwater employees had a choice to be there or not.

By hiring firms like Blackwater, the US does not have to deploy another Battalion size unit (800 people)to Iraq to handle security. From that perspective, I can understand how the US might opt for the former. Now given the political fallout resulting from the shootings - perhaps its not worth it after all. Sometimes things look good on paper but don't work out as advertised.
30 dead humans, whether American soldiers or Blackwater mercenaries, are still 30 dead humans.
Delay, you also may wish to consider that the employees of Blackwater are not bound by the rules of engagement (immunity granted) nor the code of military conduct. It's called the "get out of jail free card". Same as the Halliburton employees that gang raped an American female in the green zone. Ahh!!! DEMOCRACY!

[Tom]

So Sorry !! Didn't know spelling was such a major issue in this forum . At least it hasn't been up till now . I'll keep a dictionary on hand for now on just for your benefit !!

That is how he deludes himself into thinking he is superior to us mere mortals.
Yet his own grammer is at times atrocious. It is also hi s defense mechanism to avoid actual debate on issues of which he is only capable of posting links with out comment. See how he avoided your argument by deflection?

[Tom]

Same as the Halliburton employees that gang raped an American female in the green zone. Ahh!!! DEMOCRACY!

How is it the same?

And get out of jail free?
You might have some credibilty had you spoken out against SH when he was using his GOJF cards and murdering his own people. Meanwhile, you sit here putting down people putting thier lives on the line to help others. Ah, democracy is right - they are all there by thier own choice.

[Gittup]

How is it the same?

And get out of jail free?
You might have some credibilty had you spoken out against SH when he was using his GOJF cards and murdering his own people. Meanwhile, you sit here putting down people putting thier lives on the line to help others. Ah, democracy is right - they are all there by thier own choice.
Start here...Grammar, not gammer.
Saddam? Who gave him WMD's????
Tom, please put down the bong for a moment and answer this one and only question...Do you really believe that "Operation Iraqi Freedom" will bring freedom and democracy to Iraq?
I await your answer to the question, and not a further inane personal attack.

[46zilzal]

Start here...Grammar, not gammer.

Lukas is the break down king but the slaughter of the language belongs to a few right here.

[delayjf]

You can bury your head all you want , but the Military is concerned about this type of stuff.
We train them up and get them the experience and then when they are ready for the road to the top commands and the most difficult to find specialists they are then enticed with money to leave when they are the most valuable to the military and go to work for outside firms.
The above applies to every job or specialty the military has. If the Military really needs these guys working for Blackwater, they can be involutarily recalled them. As I understand it, not all Blackwater employees are from the US. I'm not in favor of any immunity deals but if they are to be prosecuted, shouldn't that be by the Iraqis? Certainly the Iraq government didn't give them immunity. With regards to the rape case, I'm all for prosecution of those involved.
Saddam? Who gave him WMD's????
Tom, please put down the bong for a moment and answer this one and only question...Do you really believe that "Operation Iraqi Freedom" will bring freedom and democracy to Iraq
Tom - Allow me.
Answer 1. The world provided him with his WMD's - would you like to see the list?
Answer 2. Need I remind you of the elections that have been held since we overthrew SH.

[Tom]

I'm still trying to figure out where he got WMD from GOJF, Jeff.:lol:

[Gittup]

The above applies to every job or specialty the military has. If the Military really needs these guys working for Blackwater, they can be involutarily recalled them. As I understand it, not all Blackwater employees are from the US. I'm not in favor of any immunity deals but if they are to be prosecuted, shouldn't that be by the Iraqis? Certainly the Iraq government didn't give them immunity. With regards to the rape case, I'm all for prosecution of those involved.

Tom - Allow me.
Answer 1. The world provided him with his WMD's - would you like to see the list?
Answer 2. Need I remind you of the elections that have been held since we overthrew SH.
Delay,
#1 - The "world" didn't give SH WMD's, the USA did. That's why Dub the Shrub trotted that out as justification to go to war.
#2 - Elections??? Huh? If they were valid, then Iraq is NOW a "democracy". Time to bring the occupiers home. HOOO RAHH!!! Iraqui freedom!

[46zilzal]

The stupid repugnant imbecile prez needs to be attacked regularly he is such a fool.

An opinion gaining momentum on a daily basis.

[delayjf]

Delay,
#1 - The "world" didn't give SH WMD's, the USA did. That's why Dub the Shrub trotted that out as justification to go to war.

Gittup
The preception that the US provided SH with his Chem WMD's is a common mistake. The US was a minor contributor, not that it's something to be proud of.

In December 2002, Iraq's 1,200 page Weapons Declaration revealed a list of Eastern and Western corporations and countries, as well as individuals, that exported a total of 17,602 tons of chemical precursors to Iraq in the past two decades. By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and Federal Republic of Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[48]

According to Iraq's declarations, it had procured 340 pieces of equipment used for the production of chemical weapons. More than half came from a US firm via a German company[citation needed], the remainder mostly from France, Spain, and Austria.[48] In addition, Iraq declared that it imported more than 200,000 munitions made for delivering chemicals, 75,000 came from Italy, 57,500 from Spain, 45,000 from China, and 28,500 from Egypt.[48]

[GaryG]

The stupid repugnant imbecile prez needs to be attacked regularly he is such a fool.That 6 foot 3 stupid repugnant imbecile in Canada needs to be attacked regularly he is such a fool.....

[46zilzal]

That 6 foot 3 stupid repugnant imbecile in Canada needs to be attacked regularly he is such a fool.....
I never got anyone killed.....the rutabaga can carry almost 4000 dead souls in his conscience ever day. But, being completely AMORAL he will sleep like a baby.

[Gittup]

Gittup
The preception that the US provided SH with his Chem WMD's is a common mistake. The US was a minor contributor, not that it's something to be proud of.

48]
Delay,
The Bush administration trotted out three kinds of WMD's as justification for the invasion. They included chemical, biological, and nuclear possibilities.
One only needs to read the text of Collin Powell's address to the UN Security Council prior to the invasion to see the absurdity of the claims.
btw, did you ever see the pic of Rummy shaking hands with SH? Worth the time it takes to google.

[Gittup]

That 6 foot 3 stupid repugnant imbecile in Canada needs to be attacked regularly he is such a fool.....
Appalachian Gary, Why do you resort to the same tactics as Tom, ie: avoiding the topic via personal attacks, never answering clearly stated direct questions.
Who is the "fool" that is unable to see your tactics?

[delayjf]

Gittup,
You made the accusation that the US alone provided SH with his WMD program; I showed you that the US was one of many and a minor contributor at that. What does that have to do with President Bush's pre war assessment of Iraq?

Yes I saw the picture - unfortunately sometimes one has to pick sides. It’s no secret the US (as did most of the world) supported Iraq in its war with Iran. Other than feed into someone's paranoia, but what does the picture prove?

[Gittup]

Gittup,
You made the accusation that the US alone provided SH with his WMD program; I showed you that the US was one of many and a minor contributor at that. What does that have to do with President Bush's pre war assessment of Iraq?

Yes I saw the picture - unfortunately sometimes one has to pick sides. It’s no secret the US (as did most of the world) supported Iraq in its war with Iran. Other than feed into someone's paranoia, but what does the picture prove?
The picture proves complicity.
The lies about "yellow cake" prove fear mongering.

Those that may have forgotten, when the Shah ( a dictator supported by Repub Nixon) fled to the US and Ayatollah Komeni (sp) took power, Iran was lost.
So that left the US with only one ally in the region. Guess who?

[46zilzal]

Those that may have forgotten, when the Shah ( a dictator supported by Repub Nixon) fled to the US and Ayatollah Homeni (sp) took power, Iran was lost.
So that left the US with only one ally in the region. Guess who?

Don't forget how the democratically elected ruler was killed before the CIA put the good ole Shah in power.

[Lefty]

Lukas is the break down king but the slaughter of the language belongs to a few right here.
And you, sillyzilly have been guilty of same plus glaring factual errors.

[Lefty]

gittup, the only "yellow cake" lies were perpetrated by Joe Wilson.

[delayjf]

The picture proves complicity.
The lies about "yellow cake" prove fear mongering.
So when I see pictures of FDR and Stalin shaking hands I should conclude that FDR was complicit in the purges?? Same thing with Nixon and Mao? Again, nobody is disbuting the US supported Iraq in the war.

[Gittup]

gittup, the only "yellow cake" lies were perpetrated by Joe Wilson.
Lefty, my friend, (sigh),
Wilson reported the truth. Yellow cake first surfaced in a bogus report in La Republica in Italy. The CIA picked it up and Bush and his cronies ran with it, and even presented same to the UN and to the American people (see Bush's 2002 State of the Union address).
Geesh, Lefty, my good buddy, if you don't know who's fibbin' and who's truthin', please never take the witness stand, or ever serve on a jury. Could be more dangerous than Louie with a hot brandin' iron.

[Gittup]

So when I see pictures of FDR and Stalin shaking hands I should conclude that FDR was complicit in the purges?? Same thing with Nixon and Mao? Again, nobody is disbuting the US supported Iraq in the war.
FDR and Stalin? ...different war.
Nixon and Mao? ...who was arming the North Vietnamese?
Hmmm...apples and oranges?

[PaceAdvantage]

Umm, ever heard of Blackwater?Yeah...I have another name for it....OIL!

[PaceAdvantage]

Delay,
The Bush administration trotted out three kinds of WMD's as justification for the invasion. They included chemical, biological, and nuclear possibilities.
One only needs to read the text of Collin Powell's address to the UN Security Council prior to the invasion to see the absurdity of the claims.
btw, did you ever see the pic of Rummy shaking hands with SH? Worth the time it takes to google.Holy shit. Are you all about old news, or what? For a new poster, you are sure a bore. Rummy pix? They've been posted 1000x here in off-topic over the years....is this your first rodeo bucko?

[Gittup]

Yeah...I have another name for it....OIL!
There ya go! BINGO!!!
Texas tea, black gold....
Jed Clampett knows.

[Gittup]

Holy shit. Are you all about old news, or what? For a new poster, you are sure a bore. Rummy pix? They've been posted 1000x here in off-topic over the years....is this your first rodeo bucko?
Old news is called "history".
First rodeo...a bronc named Thunder. I won.

[delayjf]

Wilson reported the truth.
Hardly, and by the way British intelligence also had simular intel about yellow cake. Tenet even said Wilson's report was inconclusive.

[Tom]

The stupid repugnant imbecile prez needs to be attacked regularly he is such a fool.

An opinion gaining momentum on a daily basis.

Just like You on this board, huh?:lol: