"You're On!"

[Teach]

For the last fifty years, I’ve traveled to the track and made all my bets there. However, with the price of gas hovering around three bucks a gallon and a fill-up costing close to $50, I’m more and more tempted to use an account wagering service to make my bets. But there’s a rub.

You see, I’m a private kinda guy. I figure if I go to the track, win or lose, whatever happened there, stayed there. I like it that way.

In light of what I’ve just stated, I’d like to pose some questions to forum members and get their thoughts and opinions on account wagering:

1. If you use account wagering, what service do you use? If you’re satisfied with that service, what makes you satisfied? What makes them stand out from the rest?

2. Do account wagering services charge fees?

3. Does every account wagering service require you to provide your social security number?

4. How secure are account wagering services?

Frankly, as cited, the reason I’m leery of account wagering is because I like to keep my anonymity. I’m concerned about the fact that records of my wagers are being kept. Can those fears be assuaged?

wdl

[richrosa]

You're living in 1950. Everything we do is being tracked, watched and analyzed. You are no more anonymous than any of the rest of us.

Just think. When you call your friendly Pizza chain to get that extra cheezy pie that used to resemble the stuff I used to get in NYC, they are selling your personal demographic data and phone number to people who want it to make you less anonymous.

The ADW's are required to have your Social Security number so they can report your W2-G's to Uncle Sam. The big ones are all secure. You should read their privacy policies to see what they share with others, but besides Uncle Sam and maybe some reacetracks, I bet it ain't much. You're certainly more anonymous there then posting on a forum like this.

Good luck. At least the credit card companies you use when you buy gas will no longer sell your name to the NTRA or Uncle Sam because you routinely filled up gas near your local race track or OTB, and thus are a potential customer.

[betovernetcapper]

Re #2-Some of them do-like 25 cents per bet or so much per month. It's nickle and dime crap. It's like being charged for the use of salt and pepper at a restaurant.
.
Re #3-If your in the US, I'd say the domestic ones are and the off shores are spotty.
.
Re#1-I use PTC because of (in alphabetical order)

a.) Betting interface-best on the planet

b.) Customer service-best in the universe
.
c.) Rebates There's the old joke about the gambler going into the track and saying "I hope I break even today-I need the money " It's real-with a rebate all I have to do is break even :)

[kenwoodallpromos]

I guess you still have to go to the track or OTB to make a profit without paying the required taxes.

[boomman]

:ThmbUp: Re #2-Some of them do-like 25 cents per bet or so much per month. It's nickle and dime crap. It's like being charged for the use of salt and pepper at a restaurant.
.
Re #3-If your in the US, I'd say the domestic ones are and the off shores are spotty.
.
Re#1-I use PTC because of (in alphabetical order)

a.) Betting interface-best on the planet

b.) Customer service-best in the universe
.
c.) Rebates There's the old joke about the gambler going into the track and saying "I hope I break even today-I need the money " It's real-with a rebate all I have to do is break even :)

TeacH: read above: B.O.N.C. nailed it (as usual);)

Boomer

[betovernetcapper]

I guess you still have to go to the track or OTB to make a profit without paying the required taxes.

??????? You still have to report it. It would be unethical not to. I saw a $20 bill laying on the street the other day and didn't pick it up just because of the paperwork required in declaring it as income.

[Scav]

??????? You still have to report it. It would be unethical not to. I saw a $20 bill laying on the street the other day and didn't pick it up just because of the paperwork required in declaring it as income.

if every gambler reported winnings and losses from the OTB, the IRS wouldn't get refunds out until June. They only thing they give a crap about is the w2-g's if you are a normal weekend warrior, if you are doing it for a living, that is another story

[northerndancer]

You are dead wrong....... the IRS is getting much more savy when it comes to the so called 'Weekend Warrior'. The bottomline no matter if you have to sign for it and receive a W-2G or not it you have winnings from your wagering activity it is your responsibility to report those winnings as income on your Form 1040. You then also have the ability to claim any losses associated with your gaming activities on your Schedule A.

Your statement that they do not care is not appropriate. The statement you can make is that they have just not caught you as of today. The fact is that when they do catch that weekend warrior you stand the particular problem of failing to report income which is a felony. This is the by far the worse position any taxpayer can put themselves in when it comes to the IRS.

Therefore no matter how much your winnings are you need to claim the winnings and then suffer the consequences of having your AGI level phase out certain deductions.

The ones who are using Schedule C to report the activity they are on a much more slippery slope do to the hobby loss rules associated with determining whether an activity can be deemed a reportable Schedule C. That will be for another day.

[Scav]

You are dead wrong....... the IRS is getting much more savy when it comes to the so called 'Weekend Warrior'. The bottomline no matter if you have to sign for it and receive a W-2G or not it you have winnings from your wagering activity it is your responsibility to report those winnings as income on your Form 1040. You then also have the ability to claim any losses associated with your gaming activities on your Schedule A.

Your statement that they do not care is not appropriate. The statement you can make is that they have just not caught you as of today. The fact is that when they do catch that weekend warrior you stand the particular problem of failing to report income which is a felony. This is the by far the worse position any taxpayer can put themselves in when it comes to the IRS.

Therefore no matter how much your winnings are you need to claim the winnings and then suffer the consequences of having your AGI level phase out certain deductions.

The ones who are using Schedule C to report the activity they are on a much more slippery slope do to the hobby loss rules associated with determining whether an activity can be deemed a reportable Schedule C. That will be for another day.

um, ok, if you say so.

Do you realize how impossible it is for the IRS to even try that argument? For them to even try and get you with a felony they would need DETAILED information that you made such and such amount and PROOF of that. That would me they would need HELP which NO TRACK in their right mind would give them.

IRS: We have reason to believe that Person A made $15,000 profit this year on horse racing

Lawyer for Person A: What proof does the IRS have of this so called profit?

IRS: A hunch

Now, if you use something like a Twin Spires Card or even ADW's, then there is their proof, and that proof is circumstanial anyways because what happens if you don't use the card all the time.

If someone is going to the OTB/Track with cash, and not using a rewards card of any kind, it is virtually impossible for the IRS to know what you are doing.

I'll take my chances

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

diamond sports.. no wtg.....and rebates......

[kenwoodallpromos]

I guess you still have to go to the track or OTB to make a profit without paying the required taxes.
Of course, everyone should make enough to take pride in reporting, paying the taxes, and and still come out ahead!!

[betovernetcapper]

Screw it-I'm going to go go and see if that $20 is still laying on the street and if it is, I'm going to pick it it up, no matter how much paper work is involved. :)

[highnote]

I'll take my chances

Even if you want to take your chances, you should ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS keep written records. How else can you know if you're winning or losing?

If you don't keep records for tax purposes, at least keep records for yourself! :ThmbUp:

[Bubba X]

um, ok, if you say so.

Do you realize how impossible it is for the IRS to even try that argument? For them to even try and get you with a felony they would need DETAILED information that you made such and such amount and PROOF of that. That would me they would need HELP which NO TRACK in their right mind would give them.

IRS: We have reason to believe that Person A made $15,000 profit this year on horse racing

Lawyer for Person A: What proof does the IRS have of this so called profit?

IRS: A hunch

Now, if you use something like a Twin Spires Card or even ADW's, then there is their proof, and that proof is circumstanial anyways because what happens if you don't use the card all the time.

If someone is going to the OTB/Track with cash, and not using a rewards card of any kind, it is virtually impossible for the IRS to know what you are doing.

I'll take my chances

You will run into problems with the IRS if your play is a mix of ADW and on-track AND you try to claim losses from on-track wagering to offset either a winning ADW year or an on-track 1099-G.

You CANNOT just claim a winning ADW year -- or taxes on winning ADW 1099's -- are offset by "what I lost at the track." The IRS can and will ask you for not only your on-track wagering log but also ask you for things like programs, drf's, mileage records and receipts on winning (yes, winning) tickets as well as the losers.

And since IRS audits usually happen 2-3 years after the end of a tax year, you have to keep those records. And if you're audited for this, you'll probably be asked for your records going back seven years.

Finally, if you've ever used an off-shore book, they can and will get into that.

The IRS is not run like a court of law. You are presumed guilty. You are better off "taking your chances" elsewhere.

[Cangamble]

Since 99% of players are losers when it comes to the race track, it is such a waste of time for the IRS to even deal with race winnings and losings.
In Canada, we don't have to mention any bets we make win or lose on our tax forms.
Taxing the player in horses or even making them accountable with respect to taxes is a huge example of government waste.

[boomman]

Since 99% of players are losers when it comes to the race track, it is such a waste of time for the IRS to even deal with race winnings and losings.
In Canada, we don't have to mention any bets we make win or lose on our tax forms.
Taxing the player in horses or even making them accountable with respect to taxes is a huge example of government waste.

Cangamble: I agree! This is a total waste of the IRS's time. Please write them to tell them how you guys do this in Canada, and that nobody in The US is winning anyway, so stop having the US players sign tax forms on their winnings and wasting their valuable time and efforts. PLEASE BE SURE AND KEEP ME UP TO DATE AS TO WHEN THEY ELIMINATE THIS SILLY PRACTICE! LOL:D

Thank you for your assistance,

Boom

[highnote]

Since 99% of players are losers when it comes to the race track, it is such a waste of time for the IRS to even deal with race winnings and losings.
In Canada, we don't have to mention any bets we make win or lose on our tax forms.
Taxing the player in horses or even making them accountable with respect to taxes is a huge example of government waste.


Isn't the purpose of government to waste tax payers' money? :D

[Celent]

In Canada, we don't have to mention any bets we make win or lose on our tax forms.
Taxing the player in horses or even making them accountable with respect to taxes is a huge example of government waste.

That's a good point. For all the talk of how Socialistic Canada is, you guys have us beat on the gambling-tax issue, here in the land of the free...

Mike

[dvlander]

This is IRS Tax Law at it's cruelest and unfairest. In year 1, I win $50K at the races and am taxed heavily. In year 2, I lose $50K at the races and I get zero offset against any other income, now or in the future.

I undertand the comments that point out the riskiness of circumventing the IRS on racing winnings. However, unless a big ticket results in a W-2G, I can't see how the IRS would become aware of anyone's wagering activity especially if there are other reportable wages/earnings on their 1040 form.

I do not advocate non-reporting although my ethical barometer would certainly approve it if getting away with it was guaranteed.

Dale