When to use: ALL?

[Sinner369]

When to use the "All" line in a Pick 2, 3, 4 or 6 ticket?

I heard or read if have 5 or more contenders in a race.

Are there rules or rule of thumbs for using the All line?

I realize that it affects the cost of a ticket greatly.

But I seem to be getting 3 of 4 or 2 of 3 in my Pick 4's & Pick 3's and the only way I can get that race is with the "ALL" line!

I like to heard everyone's opinion!

Thanks! And have a great 2008!

sinner369

[Greyfox]

1. A "Chaos race" - where none of the contenders have ran to par.
2. A race where you have no ideas re: the outcome no matter how hard you puzzle.
3. Some turf races.

(I should add that there have been times when I have used "all" and the favorite won . Other times when I thought about "all," then opted for the favorite as the logical pick and the longest shot of the week came home.)

[whyhorseofcourse]

I love using all in the last leg of the exotics.
There is no better feeling when you cant lose.
But I use it if I can find a single (or two) in another leg. :)

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

Never in my life have I seen a good time to use the ALL button, whether in a single or multi-race exotic bet. When you hit the ALL button you're betting as if every single horse has an equal chance of winning (or finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th). You may complete some Pick 3's or 4's that you otherwise wouldn't by using ALL but in the long term your bankroll will suffer.

[Greyfox]

In addition to my earlier comments.

1. a race full of first time starters
2. the third leg of of some trifectas
3. the fourth leg of supertris.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

A equal amount ALL.............NEVER

A layered amount ALL..........Once in a while is marginally acceptable as long as you press the prices

[ceejay]

The all button means you have no opinion. In that case just pass the bet.

I will sometimes layer my tickets so I'm alive to all in different proportions if "A" picks win legs 1, 2, 3 of a P4.

[stu]

When to use all in the double is easy to determine!

When the video display of DD probables of your horse to
all N horses in the second leg are greater than

{(base_bet) x N x [Odds(leg_1) + 1]}

For example, you like an 9-to-1 runner in the first leg
and all ten probables in the $2 double are paying more
than $200.

$2 DD key with all = $20

or

$20 Win on key = $20

It doesn't occur everyday, but it is more frequent than a blue moon.

[schweitz]

The all button means you have no opinion. In that case just pass the bet.

Agree that it means that you have no STRONG opinion, but disagree that you should ALWAYS pass. In the pick-3's that I play if I am confident of one longshot (or two :) ) in the other legs and and am faced with the other leg being a "no clue" leg I will hit the ALL button for that leg. This situation is rare but when it happens I will always play it this way---it can be very rewarding. The way I look at it is if my handicapping has produced one or two longshots I need to give myself every chance for the boxcar payoffs that this situation presents.

[JustRalph]

When to use all in the double is easy to determine!

When the video display of DD probables of your horse to
all N horses in the second leg are greater than

{(base_bet) x N x [Odds(leg_1) + 1]}

For example, you like an 9-to-1 runner in the first leg
and all ten probables in the $2 double are paying more
than $200.

$2 DD key with all = $20

or

$20 Win on key = $20

It doesn't occur everyday, but it is more frequent than a blue moon.

I think Stu has posted a good scenario here. I almost never have hit the all button,but recently was in love with a 19-1 shot in the first leg of the last three at Hollywood on a Friday night. I rarely played doubles and pik tickets but after placing my win bet I hit the exotics and saw that the horse was paying over 4 hundred bucks to everybody in the double. It cost 14 bucks to hit the all button in the second leg. I went for it. Then looked at the pik 3 numbers and realized it would be only 14 more to play the pik 3 with all in the middle and my top horse in the last. So I played that too.

My 19-1 shot won going away and I cashed big time. The double and the Pik 3 were great. So, I think Stu has a good point on this one............

[Kelso]

$2 DD key with all = $20
or
$20 Win on key = $20


Stu,
Very clear, except (for me) the "$20 Win on key = $20" statement. What do you mean by that?

Thank you.

[stu]

Stu,
Very clear, except (for me) the "$20 Win on key = $20" statement. What do you mean by that?

Thank you.

It was a poor attempt to illustrate that putting all on the nose of one runner or distributing it equally across the doubles would cost the same amount.

[Kelso]

It was a poor attempt to illustrate that putting all on the nose of one runner or distributing it equally across the doubles would cost the same amount.

OH ... now I got it! Thanks again.

[JustRalph]

I thought for sure somebody would come up with another reason to use the all button.................interesting thread..............

[samyn on the green]

There is a word that advanced pick players use in chaos races. It is called surrender. Sometimes a race is so chaotic that the all button is a useful tool to cover horses that are can not be identified using handicapping methods. This is how I have nailed some huge pick 3's and 4's. The way the public plays the pick bets the horses at the outer edge of the wagering odds generate exponentially higher payouts. The way to cover these bombs is through the all button. Surrender your ego and go with the flow of chaos. It is ok to have an opinion and lean on that opinion but there is also a time when a lack of an opinion and the willingness to gamble can yield the most rewarding of scores.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

There is a word that advanced pick players use in chaos races. It is called surrender. Sometimes a race is so chaotic that the all button is a useful tool to cover horses that are can not be identified using handicapping methods. This is how I have nailed some huge pick 3's and 4's. The way the public plays the pick bets the horses at the outer edge of the wagering odds generate exponentially higher payouts. The way to cover these bombs is through the all button. Surrender your ego and go with the flow of chaos. It is ok to have an opinion and lean on that opinion but there is also a time when a lack of an opinion and the willingness to gamble can yield the most rewarding of scores.

In a chaos race, why would anybody want to use chalk for an equal amount as a logical value horse in P-3's or P-4's?

If your opinion is right about it being a chaos race, it would be stupid not to take the amounts you used on the 3 favorites and move them to the 3 best price chances (unless you are paying into small pools).

[cj]

The all button, in my opinion, should only be used if it is the only way to bet your opinion.

If you are playing a P3 and the middle leg is inscrutable but you like the outside legs, use the ALL. I would never use the ALL on either end of a P3 if a daily double were available.

Maybe you want to use the ALL in the middle of a trifecta bet if you love a key horse and want to key a few longshots second and third. There is no other way to ensure cashing if one of your longshots run 3rd. I wouldn't use it on the end (3rd) if an exacta bet was available.

The above statements assume the takeout would be lower in the DD than the P3 and lower in the exacta than the trifecta.

[nobeyerspls]

Use the all button when you believe that all entrants have an equal chance. I learned this the hard way. I once used 6 of 11 horses in the last leg of a pick4 with singles in the first three races. I was alive but did not cash when a horse I did not use won the race. Saved five bucks to avoid cashing for $6,300.
Last May I used the all button for the 4th spot of a superfecta after one of my selections was scratched. It increased the cost of the ticket to $18 but, when the favorite ran forth, the ticket paid over $13k.

[ryesteve]

Use the all button when you believe that all entrants have an equal chance. I learned this the hard way. I once used 6 of 11 horses in the last leg of a pick4
When you were making out the ticket, if you really believed that all the entrants in the last leg had an equal chance, how did you arrive at the 6 horses you used?

[nobeyerspls]

If you "narrow" a field to 6 of 11 entrants isn't that a sign that you don't know who will win? A lousy five bucks more bought the whole field.

[phatbastard]

definition of odds on---if i punch an all in doubles, pick-3,etc---fave will win

[Tee]

Before 8 AM MST in the morning the best I can muster to answer the question when to use the all button is,

1) When the risk is worth the return.

2) When you feel the favorite will be nowhere in sight.

IMO you should be able to find contenders for the win spot w/o the use of the all button. So I wouldn't recommend usage of the all button in the horizontal wagers.

I very astute handicapper once told me that anyone can finish 3rd & for that matter 4th. So go ahead and use the all button in those trifecta and superfecta wagers, but only if The Risk Is Worth The Return.

[ryesteve]

If you "narrow" a field to 6 of 11 entrants isn't that a sign that you don't know who will win? field.I would've taken it as a sign you liked those 6 more than the other 5.

[cj]

2) When you feel the favorite will be nowhere in sight.


Shouldn't that be ALL - 1? ;)

[skate]

If you play with the chalkey, never play the AllKey.


Ifin you gots a price (20/1) Always use the AllKey.


So, it All Depends...................................OkeyDoke y.:cool:

[mudnturf]

The all button, in my opinion, should only be used if it is the only way to bet your opinion.
Maybe you want to use the ALL in the middle of a trifecta bet if you love a key horse and want to key a few longshots second and third.

CJ et al
True story ----- I had the good fortune of attending a day of racing at the Royal Ascot meeting in 2003. In the Prince of Wales Stakes that day I really liked NAYEF and the filly ISLINGTON, both of which were between 5-1 and 10-1.
Believing the favorite was vulnerable, and that nearly every runner had a shot, I decided to bet the trifecta, a bet that had been introduced in the U.K. earlier in '03. My 50p trifecta ticket was --------------- Nayef,Islington / ALL / Nayef,Islington --, and cost me around 8 pounds if memory serves me correctly. In addition, I also bet the Nayef/Islington reverse forecast (exacta box) just in case they ran 1,2. At least I would get a "consolation prize".
Nayef won the race, and Islington finished third. My pleasant surprise was Rakti, who finished 2nd @ 50-1. If I had used three, four, or five horses in the middle leg, instead of "All", I doubt that Rakti would have been one of my choices.
Cashing the ticket, in fact just finding out what it was worth is a story for another time. But when all was said and done, my trifecta ticket was worth 2300 pounds. At that time the exchange rate was much different than it is today, but that equated to around $3600.
Ever since then I've had no qualms about using the "All" button.

[samyn on the green]

In a chaos race, why would anybody want to use chalk for an equal amount as a logical value horse in P-3's or P-4's?

If your opinion is right about it being a chaos race, it would be stupid not to take the amounts you used on the 3 favorites and move them to the 3 best price chances (unless you are paying into small pools).This post sounds good in theory and is good advice.

However there are times when I feel it is right to completely introduce luck into the equation and hit that all button. Over thinking and overreaching your handicapping abilities is a real phenomenon in this game. Are you going to be able out think every race? Ever watch a race and think, how did that happen? Their are times I just want to hit all and cover them all in a vertical or horizontal wager when I have a strong feeling about one leg but unsure about another leg.

[Hajck Hillstrom]

Every circumstance is different, so hard and fast rules when using the ALL button in the horizontal pools can be subjective.

My only "rule" for using the ALL button is in the Exacta Pools. When I like a horse at double digit odds (10-1 or higher) and the favorite is suspect or vulnerable, I will wheel & backwheel that horse in the Exacta. This has resulted in numerous 4 fig exacta payouts, the largest being a $1 exacta box in the 05' Kentucky Derby keying CLOSING ARGUMENT with ALL resulting in an exacta that paid $4,907 on the $38 wager. CLOSING ARGUMENT paid $70 to place that day, but I managed to extract odds of about 130-1, to place, using the rule.

Now, to determine when to play these double digit contenders is up to you, but I like the angle with fields of 10 horses or more, and the contender's value is inflated. An automatic wager is when the off-odds of the horse is double fair value. In the 05' Derby, I thought CLOSING ARGUMENT would have fair value at 15-1, so the 71-1 off-odds predicated the wager.

I can rarely use the ALL button in the Pik6 pools, but for some strange reason, I have found it useful in the 3rd leg of the Pik4. The same holds true for the Superfecta, where its usefulness has proven profitable in the show leg as opposed the 4th hole.

Just remember this.....the ALL button is a useful tool, but you don't want to overuse it. Use it only when absolutely necessary, because nothing will eat at a bankroll faster.

Mark Cramer refers to the use of the ALL box/button as Lecherous Betting from the Red Light District in his book Kinky Handicapping. :cool: So if you don't have any problem being perceived as a handicapping whore, then by all means do..

[podonne]

So at what point does eliminating contenders go from demonstrating that you have chaos to that you have a strong opinion? If I eliminate 2 from a 10 horse field, that's chaos, but if I eliminate eight, that's a strong opinion. Is it that you have 50% of horses eliminated, 75%?

[cj]

CJ et al
True story ----- I had the good fortune of attending a day of racing at the Royal Ascot meeting in 2003. In the Prince of Wales Stakes that day I really liked NAYEF and the filly ISLINGTON, both of which were between 5-1 and 10-1.
Believing the favorite was vulnerable, and that nearly every runner had a shot, I decided to bet the trifecta, a bet that had been introduced in the U.K. earlier in '03. My 50p trifecta ticket was --------------- Nayef,Islington / ALL / Nayef,Islington --, and cost me around 8 pounds if memory serves me correctly. In addition, I also bet the Nayef/Islington reverse forecast (exacta box) just in case they ran 1,2. At least I would get a "consolation prize".
Nayef won the race, and Islington finished third. My pleasant surprise was Rakti, who finished 2nd @ 50-1. If I had used three, four, or five horses in the middle leg, instead of "All", I doubt that Rakti would have been one of my choices.
Cashing the ticket, in fact just finding out what it was worth is a story for another time. But when all was said and done, my trifecta ticket was worth 2300 pounds. At that time the exchange rate was much different than it is today, but that equated to around $3600.
Ever since then I've had no qualms about using the "All" button.

This is exactly the kind of situation I was saying warranted the ALL button.