Put Dale Baird in the Hall of Fame next time?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Should Dale Baird be put into the Racing Hall of Fame on the next vote? (Results wiill be sent to the racing HOF, media, organizations).

[kenwoodallpromos]

I vote yes and the sooner the better!

[GaryG]

Me too....I see two people voted against. I would like to know why.

[cj]

I voted no. It isn't because I don't think he should be in, I do. However, those voting have never found him worthy, so why should his dying change anything?

[GaryG]

I voted no. It isn't because I don't think he should be in, I do. However, those voting have never found him worthy, so why should his dying change anything?His dying doesn't change anything, just focuses attention on the situation. I can't understand how a man with this many winners would not be worthy. I don't know this for a fact, but I imagine that he did it with hay, oats and water.

[cj]

Baird had his fair share of suspensions.

I don't think King Leatherbury is in either. I think they deserve it. The voters don't, and death shouldn't really change that.

[boomman]

Baird had his fair share of suspensions.

I don't think King Leatherbury is in either. I think they deserve it. The voters don't, and death shouldn't really change that.

I agree that death doesn't change Hall of Fame status, but the guy trained almost 9500 winners...If that doesn't qualify for entry into the Hall, then I don't know what does??????????

R.I.P Dale

Boomer

[MAGICHORSEMAN]

Of course he belongs in the hall of fame. It is not even worthly of discussion that he is will not be in the hall of fame someday.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"What sets Baird apart from other trainers in the Hall is the fact he owned nearly all his horses, with no outside financial backing."
I cannot find the number of stakes winners he had- maybe his horses were too cheap for him to be voted in so far?

[Zman179]

Even though Dale Baird deserves to be in there, realistically it's not a real hall of fame.

[highnote]

He is the winningest trainer of all time. In my opinion, that makes him the best there ever was.

It's hard enough to win one race. He would have easily surpassed 10,000 wins in the next few years!

Mountaineer Park should honor the man by erecting a statue of him.

He is a legend.

[phatbastard]

snooty blue bloods who think this game is theirs to control and have got this game in the condition it is would never accept this type of blue-collared guy who epitomizes common man.....

he should already be in

[garyoz]

Phenomenal trainer with poor stock. He'd do just as well as Pletcher, Frankel, etc. with better horses. The HOF is all about the Saratoga/Lexington/Los Angeles access. You can make a stronger case for Baird than you can for Russel Baze (IMHO)--although I think both deserve the honor.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"Marion Van Berg
Training Career: 22 years (1945-66)
Winners: Over 1,470


Marion Van Berg's training statistics do not give the full story of his achievements. He was an owner/trainer who held the record for leading race-winning owner for 14 years (11 of them consecutive).

Van Berg began as a livestock dealer and farmer. He started racing Thoroughbreds in the late 30's with trainer C.A. Tanner. In 1945 Van Berg took over the training responsibilities until the mid-60's when his son, Jack, and his assistant, Bob Irwin, began training for him.


Mr. Van Berg at the races
©Daily Racing Form

****Marion Van Berg made his reputation and fortune with claiming horses. He primarily raced the midwestern tracks and firmly believed in not raising horses above their class. Among his best horses were Rose Bed, Knights Reward, Rose's Gem, Estacion, Spring Broker, and Grand Stand.


Awards and Achievements
Leading money-winning owner, 1965, 1968-70
Leading race-winning owner 14 years
Inducted in the Hall of Fame in 1970


****Marion Van Berg's success as a leading owner/trainer brought him induction in the Hall of Fame in 1970."

[MAGICHORSEMAN]

It is a question of if there is a real horseracing hall of fame. Do we have a horseracing hall of fame if there is no Dale Baird listed amoung its members? I say we do not have a hall of fame as of 12/25/7 and we should all push to get a horseracing hall of fame. Perhaps we can build one near Chester WV and enter horseracing jockeys, trainers and other personalities that really belong into a horseracing hall of fame. It would be a more centrally located than the one in northern New York. The one in New York is kind of small anyways.

[cj]

As I have said, I think the man should be in the Hall of Fame. However, it isn't like the other side doesn't have an argument.

There was a minor league hockey player in Oklahoma City. His name was Joe Burton, and he played tons of years and scored tons of goals. The catch is, he never did it above essentially AA level, or two levels below the NHL. He'll never be in the Hockey HOF.

Baird was at least two levels below the top of the horse racing world, and for long time many more levels than that. Waterford Park was as low on the racing food chain as you could get. In a sport that is essentially about money, his winners don't even come close to the sport's elite in that regard.

[Pace Cap'n]

It may be that the key word here is FAME. Toiling in the backwaters does not lead to recognition. A man of his accomplishments should be recognized. As tragic as it is, his passing may serve to enlighten the racing establishment.

[kenwoodallpromos]

It may be that the key word here is FAME. Toiling in the backwaters does not lead to recognition. A man of his accomplishments should be recognized. As tragic as it is, his passing may serve to enlighten the racing establishment.
I see your point- and I see some trainers in the HOF with 1 or a couple of champion horses, but they are well-known horses. Did Seabiscuit's Tom Smith deserve HOF recognition?
Maybe Baird did not have the luxury of being an assistant to a big-time trainer and developing a wealthy client list; maybe he was not good enough of a trainer to make a champion out of one he owned- but that type of discussion is why I began this thread.

[betovernetcapper]

Sitting here waiting for my nightly Ambien to kick in, when it hit me, just picking 9500 winners is a bitch, let alone having to deal with the actual horses. Give it to him.

[cj]

I see your point- and I see some trainers in the HOF with 1 or a couple of champion horses, but they are well-known horses. Did Seabiscuit's Tom Smith deserve HOF recognition?

Tom Smith did a lot more than just train Seabiscuit.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Tom Smith did a lot more than just train Seabiscuit.
I see at the HOF website that Tom Smith had 6 champiolns and more stakes winners- so you agree with me that it was mere coincidence that he was elected 2001, the same year the book "Seabiscuit" was first published by Random House?
Maybe the book propelled Smith's FAME and helped him get in right after; and maybe right after Baird's death he will achieve his most FAME.

[bane]

I see at the HOF website that Tom Smith had 6 champiolns and more stakes winners- so you agree with me that it was mere coincidence that he was elected 2001, the same year the book "Seabiscuit" was first published by Random House?
Maybe the book propelled Smith's FAME and helped him get in right after; and maybe right after Baird's death he will achieve his most FAME.

Well if memory serves me there was a "claim" of him doing some stuff to his horses that forced him into retirement, even though it probaly wasn't true.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Well if memory serves me there was a "claim" of him doing some stuff to his horses that forced him into retirement, even though it probaly wasn't true.
"A Black Mark
In 1945, at the age of 70, Smith received the only black mark on his career when one of his stable hands was caught spraying a decongestant into the nose of one of the stable's second-tier horses. New York racing laws forbade giving racehorses medications. Although the decision to use the spray was never tied to Smith, and the dose of the decongestant was deemed insignificant, he was banned from racing for a year, a controversial decision. After the ban was lifted, Graham rehired Smith and he repaid her loyalty by guiding her horse Jet Pilot to victory in the Kentucky Derby."
I guess they were tougher on drug violations back then!