Schilling on Clemens

[harnesslover]

I truly truly get sick of Schilling's mouth and it was only a matter of time before he chimed in on this one.. I wish he would shut up, but this should get funny at some point

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/20/2007-12-20_curt_schilling_if_roger_clemens_cheated_.html

"If he doesn't do that then there aren't many options as a fan for me other than to believe his career 192 wins and 3 Cy Youngs he won prior to 1997 were the end. From that point on the numbers were attained through using PED's (performance-enhancing drugs)....(I)f that is the case with Roger, the 4 Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations."

[kenwoodallpromos]

In addition to the Mitchell Report being for baseball (owners) by an part owner, weren't the large majority of accusations made by clubhouse personnel employed deirectly by the teams?

[OTM Al]

Schilling is an egomaniac who can't keep his mouth shut. He intimates that Clemens should give up his 1997 award, but Clemens supposedly didn't start on the drugs until part of the way into 1998. Does he know something that wasn't in the report? If so, why did he basically say nothing before congress? And why would you sell out the guy who you gave credit for setting your career straight when you were a pitcher with a $10 million arm and a nickle head to go with a stupid blue mohawk? Seem to remember this guy getting a pretty big upswing in his pitching long about the same time as the steroids were at their height. He got something to hide? This report continues to dredge up the heights of stupidity. Total waste of time.

[skate]

Yep, not very grown-up.

But, i like the guy.

Overall, i tend to ignore the details of this sort, this is Not News. since it's been going on for a long time.
i dont find myself being upset, because this drug use is either good or bad, cheating or honest. So, make a friggen Rule, "Like" years Ago maybe?

From where i sit i find fault with the Regulation. Some people have done "just fine" with the drugs.

The game does not remain the same "ever". Equipment, Rules, Distance , Dedication and Incentives keep changing.

It's a kids game, imo.

[PaceAdvantage]

I like some of the post-article comments in that Daily news piece:

The most hypocritical thing about sport's biggest blowhard passing judgment on Clemens is the fact that Schilling refused to cooperate with the Mitchell investigators, yet feels emboldened enough to type away at his keyboard and discuss what he thinks he knows. Schilling's intentional lack of cooperation in the investigation makes him just as culpable as the hundreds of other players, the player's union, and team owners and management personnel for the drug culture that has overtaken the game. In my opinion, Schilling lost his right to legitimately judge others on the matter when he kept his big mouth shut for the first time in his career.

Who the f%^& is Schilling to demand that the Rocket solve things to his satisfaction. First off the red suks were never investigated(wow what a coincidence). Gee could that be because the person running the investigation is on the red suks board. The NY teams and Bonds were targeted, no if's and and's or but's. If they were not going to out everyone on every team then no players should have been listed. To say this was just a sampling and think that there would be no repercussions is total BS. Mitchell accomplished what he wanted to. Defame the Yankees. He threw in the Mets to try and not look biased and included bonds to make the commish happy. THIS WAS A WITCH HUNT AIME AT CERATIN TEAMS AND PLAYERS!!!!! By the way, how come none of the physical proof pointed toward the Rocket or Andy.

You knew that it was just a matter of time before this **** opened his mouth, because as usual, he thinks that people outside of New England actually care what he has to say. Is this he same guy that clammed up when he was testifying before Congress? Maybe they should always have Schilling under oath - that way he'll shut up and we don't have to hear the drivel that comes from his mouth.

Yeah, I pick and choose....guilty as charged....

[harnesslover]

I'd pay to have Schilling and Clemens before Congress under oath.

[skate]

AAAAAAHHHhhh, see that, that's what i'm Talking about. It's Media BS.


I.E., if that article is correct, in that nobody from the socks was investigated.


the-skate was outta here before, but but but now I"M REALLY outta here.

[BIG RED]

1ST guy I actually seen to make a lawsuit about.

About time. Let's see if he goes thru with it. If he is legit, prove it and screw the one that says otherwise. I wouldn't stand for lies or fabrications if it was me?

You can speak(say) it outloud, can wait for court, with Clemens. Maybe his agent said to roar, but don't go in there. We shall see.

[OTM Al]

This all gets more stupid by the day. Congress wasting one more second on this is a waste of our tax dollars of the highest order. Was just watching "The Insider" the other night, the movie about the tobacco industry insider who went to 60 Minutes to tell his story starring Russell Crowe in the role he got the Oscar for when he got the Oscar for Gladiator (if you follow how voting works, you know what I mean by this). In that movie they discussed how the CEOs of all the major tobacco companies went before congress and swore up and down that nicotine was not addictive. They got away with it and are still allowed to sell a product far more dangerous to the public health with very very few repercussions. So tell me what testifying before congress really means.

Meanwhile, similar to what happened to the star of the film, McNamee has lost his family. His children have had to be pulled from their school because of threats.

Rules have now been instituted. People will still get around them, but those that get caught will be punished appropriately. Is there really any need to keep dredging this stuff up? There is no perspective either how long this has been going on either. The Germans (and I'm sure we as well) were playing with this stuff in the 30s. Remember Captain America and his super soldier serum? Yeah, that's the stuff. In 1961 Mickey Mantle fell out of the home run chase because of an abcess in his hip caused by a dirty needle in the application of a "vitamin B" shot. This shot was administered by a New York doctor notorious for very shady practices in drug administration in the celebrity circles. What do you think that really was? He had to have a liver transplant and we all figured it was caused by boozing, but those early steriods caused liver damage, so can you say for sure the Mick himself wasn't doing it way back then?

The line can and should be drawn only for the going forward as the whole truth from the past will never be told.

[njcurveball]

the movie about the tobacco industry insider who went to 60 Minutes to tell his story starring Russell Crowe in the role he got the Oscar for when he got the Oscar for Gladiator (if you follow how voting works, you know what I mean by this).

They got away with it and are still allowed to sell a product far more dangerous to the public health with very very few repercussions. So tell me what testifying before congress really means.

Remember Captain America and his super soldier serum? Yeah, that's the stuff. .

GREAT POINTS all through your post! You have hit many things "square on the head" here.

My friend played minor league ball for 12 or 13 years. He was an incredible high school pitcher, great in college and drafted by the Yankees. Unfortunately not a "bonus baby", he was relegated to the bullpen and pitched long relief one too many times.

His arm was "tired" as they say and the team doctor gave him "stuff". We will leave it at that. He said the first week he was barely making 80 with his fastball. He usually threw in the 93 mph range. He said by the end of the 2nd week he was hitting close to 98!

He threw a week at two at that speed and then regulated back to his normal speed. He was scared of what they gave him and the fear for his health, outweighed his desire to keep taking it and perhaps keep throwing at that speed long enough to get called up.

Unlike smoking, the risks are really not well definied even if Roger Clemens says it turns your "tendons to dust". Given the choice of pitching Triple A or moving up to get a "cup of coffee", many players would take whatever they are given, no questions asked.

They need to get the people who were in the clubhouse, trianing room, etc. A B-12 shot is red, Lidocaine also looks different. They come in different packages as well. Simply have the people describe the color, packaging, etc.

Clemens is my favorite, but he lost a lot of points with me by calling Mcnamee with his lawyers in the room. If he were innocent (and I am still hoping he is), he would call a press conference with Andy Petitte and his other teammates and have them tell the story.

Jim

[46zilzal]

More and more longitudinal studies are finding that the simple process in the first step of wound repair, inflammation, is what helps us heal and screws us up in later life.

Steroids COMPLETELY block this first step in repair so that the normal inflammatory signs of heat, swelling and discomfort never tell us to consider slowing down and stopping what it is that is causing this to happen in the first place.

Micro-tears in tendon, connective tissue, vessel walls, fascias, ligaments etc. begin their "maintenance" (a little at a time) well below the threshold of gross symptoms.

Take away that maintenance and the symptoms which follow the full blown syndrome of injury and it is akin to having regular fires in your home or business and turning off all smoke and fire alarms. No regular maintenance, continue over-exertion beyond the point of normally having symptoms to stop you: LONG TERM DAMAGE.

[OTM Al]

Look at paragraph 4 in this ESPN article and think how it pertains to that famous B-12 shot in 1961

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3193081

Sound familiar?

Who would be the bigger cheater in the sense of gaining advantage, the one using the drug when no one else was, or the one using when many others were? (Note: this is a rhetorical question as I could care less if they did or didn't)