Workout tab question

[beertapper]

I've got a question on workouts... On a workout report, how can you tell if two horses worked together? If they are with the same trainer and had same distance and time?

eg.

http://www.santaanita.com/racing/workouts/071216.pdf

4F: Tent & There he goes - James Cassidy, 48.80 H

[boomman]

I've got a question on workouts... On a workout report, how can you tell if two horses worked together? If they are with the same trainer and had same distance and time?

eg.

http://www.santaanita.com/racing/workouts/071216.pdf

4F: Tent & There he goes - James Cassidy, 48.80 H

beer: The simple answer to your question is no. But what you can do is check clocker notes, especially in Southern California where the legendary Bruno DeJulio is excellent at informing the public in his clocker notes of horses who indeed did work together. If you have 2 horses from the same barn that have the same time on the same day it's obviously a logical assumption, but without someone seeing the work and reporting on it or you seeing it yourself it's just that. In addition to my annoucing duties in the summer at Yavapai Downs, I also clock horses in the morning and we always note with a "c" when a horse worked in company, eg: 4F 49.3 bcg which of course means breezing with company from the gate. At least that way, you as a handicapper know the horse worked in tandem with somebody, and if you know some of the local clockers, you can then ask them to check their clocker notes if they have time and see exactly who the horse worked in tandem with..........

Boomer

[beertapper]

thanks Boomer... i guess that extra step to get the clocker info can make all the difference.. i've heard good things about Bruno also and will check out his reports

[HUSKER55]

Since you are a clocker I have a related question for you. Besides the fact that the horse is being worked by the barn is there any guides or other benefits from workouts. For example is 13 seconds a good workout, average, or poor?

I have also heard that you can tell if a horse feels well because of his workouts. Is that true and how.

I am still feeling my way so any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

[boomman]

Since you are a clocker I have a related question for you. Besides the fact that the horse is being worked by the barn is there any guides or other benefits from workouts. For example is 13 seconds a good workout, average, or poor?

I have also heard that you can tell if a horse feels well because of his workouts. Is that true and how.

I am still feeling my way so any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

Husker: I am happy to answer any questions you may have to the best of my ability.........Here's a couple of important things you need to know about morning works-first of all at Yavapai Downs because we don't have a ton of workers in the mornings, (usually average between 20-50) you can count on the fact that my clocking partner Hank Demoney and I are able to consistently identify the horses that are working, and the trainers do a good job of informing us well ahead of time when the horses are coming out. The busier the track, the more likely that one can slip through the cracks.......As for workout times, a good rule of thumb is :12 second intervals, so a 5F work in 100:00 flat would be considered excellent. But keep this in mind: as the reader you have no idea what time the work took place, was the track recently renovated or in a "cuppy" condition and how did the horse look during the work: if the clocker notates a "b" for breezing, that's a pretty good indicator that in the clocker's opinion the horse was well within himself and restrained during the work, a good sign. As far as being able to tell if the horse is feeling good or not, we certainly have our own subjective opinions on that, but you get used to how the horse should be working after seeing him several times on the track. In my 2nd Book B.E.T.S. (Boomer's Easy to Learn Thoroughbred Wagering Strategies) I talk in depth about looking for workout patterns, ie: horse working with a consistent number of days between works (6 or 7 is best) and then I like to see a 3f breeze about 3 days prior to the race...What this does in a lot of cases is to demonstrate trainer intent that he/she is training the horse up to a specific race.........Hope this helps,

Boomer

[HUSKER55]

Thanks for the info I appreciate it.:)

[46zilzal]

I've got a question on workouts... On a workout report, how can you tell if two horses worked together? If they are with the same trainer and had same distance and time?


Unless YOU ARE THERE WATCHING, you can't. Often, a slower working companion is used to teach a lesson to a youngster and their time is not recorded.

[TEJAS KIDD]

Older horses generally dont need to work in company. They usually only work to keep in shape.
Younger horses usually need the seasoning in company (whether it be with one or two other horses).
If you had a list of every trainers horses each day, and knew their ages, you may be able to assume who worked with who based on times and distance. Still, It is all speculation. Before I started clocking, I used this approach with much success. Many times I could get a line on 1st time starters based on GATE WORKS. Since most gate works are in company, it's easy to draw the conclusion that HORSE A and HORSE B worked together, because they worked the same time and the same distance and are from the same barn.
This scenario actually came up last week at Sam Houston
Trainer John Locke sent two horses to the gate.
MISS KIRAN and EXCITING.
On Nov 28th MISS KIRAN worked 50- and EXCITING went in 49.8 from the gate.


Since there were only 9 gate works that day, and only 4 at the distance of 4 furlongs, one couldve come to the assumption that these two horses worked in company. With EXCITING getting the faster time, one could assume that EXCITING was better than his mate.
MISS KIRAN won her 1st out on DEC 8th, and one week later EXCITING won on Dec 15th.

[Turfday]

With the SA meet opening on Wednesday, National Turf will, as always, offer comprehensive coverage of morning workouts with our daily report ($9.95) available after 7 p.m. (Pacific) every night before the next day's card. The report has three different search features (last 30 days, last 90 days, last 180 days) so users can select how far back coverage-wise they want to use from our database. Typically, a weekend card using the last 90-day search will be about 22-24 pages of individual workout comments.

We have our private clockers Andy Harrington and John Wilson splitting duty between Santa Anita and Hollywood Park. As many of you are aware, the Santa Anita main track was closed for workouts recently due to problems with the main track. Some of the bigger stables (at least for now) have remained at Hollywood Park instead of shipping across town.

I understand from talking to Andy there could be a real problem if we get some heavy rain even though the track has been re-opened.

There is a new sample report put up to view at the website every week so those interested can see the kind and quality of information available. Occasionally a free race.

www.nationalturf.com