PDA

View Full Version : Different Kinds Of Data Files


InFront
12-15-2007, 12:07 AM
How many kinds of data files are now offered on the Net or should I say formats available? It seems each company offers the program files and then the result files with different ranges of prices. Years ago when starting computer handicapping I used Trackmaster cause of their software, then switched to Post Daily, then once they lost the Beyers went to Daily Racing Form files and lately been using only TSN Procap files. I never used Bris which are similar to TSN anyway or these HDW files which it seems some of the popular software use.

Is there certain files that are better than others or it just depends on what software you like the most and what type of files that software only uses?

Tom Barrister
12-15-2007, 07:41 AM
If you mean how many data suppliers provide past performance data files, you could start with: Trackmaster, DRF, HDW (in a data file for the software programs that use their data), BRIS, TSN, Post Time Daily, and Equibase.

HDW is reputed to be the "cleanest" (most error-free) data.

Essentially, all of the above are supposed to orginate from Equibase data, so they all offer basically the same thing with different bells and whistles (i.e. BRIS Prime Power, DRF's Beyer figures, HDW's Cramer Speed Ratings, etc.).

garyoz
12-15-2007, 08:39 AM
The major differences are pace and speed figure calculations. Also, the detail of categories of trainer (and to a lesser extent jockey) statistics. Also the ability to access and search a database such as Formulator.

InFront
12-15-2007, 01:12 PM
So it's not that one supplier or type of file may be better than another since they all are similar or at least originate from the same souce. What can be better is the "software" that uses that specific type of file which on todays market can be many for each specific types of files.
While I used many types of software programs over the years ranging from Trackmaster, TSN, BRIS, Post Daily and DRF I never tried one that uses these HDW files. It seems the three most popular softwares that use them are HTR, HSH and HandicappingOS. Have you tried any of these and feel one stands out?

Capper Al
12-15-2007, 01:56 PM
So it's not that one supplier or type of file may be better than another since they all are similar or at least originate from the same souce. What can be better is the "software" that uses that specific type of file which on todays market can be many for each specific types of files.
While I used many types of software programs over the years ranging from Trackmaster, TSN, BRIS, Post Daily and DRF I never tried one that uses these HDW files. It seems the three most popular softwares that use them are HTR, HSH and HandicappingOS. Have you tried any of these and feel one stands out?

Data matters as well as the software.

shanta
12-15-2007, 02:09 PM
I never tried one that uses these HDW files. It seems the three most popular softwares that use them are HTR, HSH and HandicappingOS. Have you tried any of these and feel one stands out?


You can try the complete Htr program with both back dates and live for free to make your own conclusions.

The hell with what "we" think man.Use the software and see if it works for YOU.

Can't beat free for a tryout price.

Best of luck and Merry Christmas
Richie

cmoore
12-15-2007, 02:30 PM
I use porcap data files also...The only complaint I have with that software is that races are separated too much. It takes awhile to build a model. If we could group all sprints together to see what has been winning overall. That would be nice. I mostly use the factors page..This page is awesome when comparing pace figures at the 2,4 and 6 furlong mark...I also use the data files to print out my pps using the past performance generator..Those pps include the class and pace ratings unlike the quick plays..Plus you can tinker with how you want your pps printed..A great deal for 60 bucks a month..

InFront
12-15-2007, 02:40 PM
I awhile back I did tinker with the Procaps software and tried to build some quick Models in it but never found much use in it maybe cause I never had huge Model samples in it and which is why I no longer use their software. But I still use their Procaps data files for other database programs which I think is the best bang for the buck.

cmoore
12-15-2007, 03:11 PM
What program are using those procap data files for now??


I awhile back I did tinker with the Procaps software and tried to build some quick Models in it but never found much use in it maybe cause I never had huge Model samples in it and which is why I no longer use their software. But I still use their Procaps data files for other database programs which I think is the best bang for the buck.

InFront
12-15-2007, 03:21 PM
What program are using those procap data files for now??

Jcapper, dbMaxcapper, and QuickHorse which are all database types of software. Also a little use in Race Prophet which is not a database program. And as I said Procaps 2000 software which I abandoned awhile back and also Focus 2000 which I completely also gave up on.

This is the reason why I even bought these other programs. I was so accustomed to using Procaps software and it's files I became only interested in other software that also uses Procaps data. I think the only one left I didn't try that I know of is Netcapper. Are there more?

cmoore
12-15-2007, 03:24 PM
I'll check those programs out..thanks..

Jcapper, dbMaxcapper, Focus 2000 and QuickHorse which are all database types of software. Also a little in Race Prophet which is not a database program. And as I said Procaps 2000 software which I abandoned awhile back.

Tom Barrister
12-15-2007, 03:52 PM
Most (not all) programs which use BRIS files also use Procaps files. Most that only use the BRIS *.drf files can be tricked into using the Procaps files by changing the extension .drf to .pcs .

Powerline uses Procaps files. While the site is down, you can probably still buy a copy from Steve Wolson or find one on Ebay. I'm not endorsing the software, because I couldn't get it to do anything for me (your mileage may vary), and the price is $600, but others here say that it works for them.

InFront
12-15-2007, 04:45 PM
Most (not all) programs which use BRIS files also use Procaps files. Most that only use the BRIS *.drf files can be tricked into using the Procaps files by changing the extension .drf to .pcs .

Powerline uses Procaps files. While the site is down, you can probably still buy a copy from Steve Wolson or find one on Ebay. I'm not endorsing the software, because I couldn't get it to do anything for me (your mileage may vary), and the price is $600, but others here say that it works for them.

I have seen many large database tests conducted by another programmer using many of Wolson's various products and found none to be profitable. Prior to that I do have a couple versions of Powerline paper methods and also was never impressed. So there was never no interest for me to ever buy any more if these similar products such as the software.

But I do like the Procaps data files from the different suppliers I tried thus far.

ranchwest
12-17-2007, 01:58 AM
I have seen many large database tests conducted by another programmer using many of Wolson's various products and found none to be profitable. Prior to that I do have a couple versions of Powerline paper methods and also was never impressed. So there was never no interest for me to ever buy any more if these similar products such as the software.

But I do like the Procaps data files from the different suppliers I tried thus far.

I look at a lot of different factors in a race. I'm not concerned about whether my software picks winners or makes a profit. I want the software to enable me to find contenders. The way I approach handicapping, there's just too many factors for me to give the same treatment to factors every race. It's a puzzle, I look at the pieces and use them where they fit. There has to be a certain contrarian element involved that I have never been able to build directly into my software. So, I'm always seeking out approaches that are not commonly used by others.

cmoore
12-17-2007, 04:10 AM
I look at a lot of different factors in a race. I'm not concerned about whether my software picks winners or makes a profit. I want the software to enable me to find contenders. The way I approach handicapping, there's just too many factors for me to give the same treatment to factors every race. It's a puzzle, I look at the pieces and use them where they fit. There has to be a certain contrarian element involved that I have never been able to build directly into my software. So, I'm always seeking out approaches that are not commonly used by others.

I agree 100% RW..I usually don't worry who the procaps software selects..I look and many different factors each race. I like procaps mainly because of the factors page..You can select pace for all calls, class, race ratings and compare each horse. Many other selections are distance, runstyle, type of race, condition of track, lengths behind 1st and 2nd call. The software just helps me make a more informed decision. Also, I always print my pps. Got to be hands on.

Lefty
12-17-2007, 11:44 AM
IN FRONT, Netcapper doesn't use the Procaps files. It uses HDW. I may bereading youtotally wrong, but the wayyour post was worded was that Netcapper only prgm that uses Procaps that you haven't tried.

InFront
12-17-2007, 12:37 PM
IN FRONT, Netcapper doesn't use the Procaps files. It uses HDW. I may bereading youtotally wrong, but the wayyour post was worded was that Netcapper only prgm that uses Procaps that you haven't tried.

Yes you're right Netcapper uses HDW. So it seems maybe the few I mentioned and all the programs that TSN and BRIS offer right on their sites are the only BRIS/TSN programs out there. Then there is the few from Trackmaster, Post Daily and DRF which all have their own software. And then we have the 7-10 left that use these HDW files as listed on their site.

I'm curious when an "outside programmer" decides to develop a handicapping product for their own use or to be marketed what causes them to decide what TYPE of data files and supplier their program will accept and be built on since this would have to be their first decision to make? And at the end will their program work any better or worse if they chose to use a different data supplier to begin with?

I would think it wouldn't matter much since all data is derived from Equibase but it may cause each supplier adds in it's own propriority types of factors and ratings. For example I read that programs that use EITHER the Bris or TSN files that by using Bris may give like 1%-2% better results. This is strange since they are sister companies and you are using the SAME software. So what if that same software where programmed to say use completely different files such as from HDW or Post Daily instead what would their results be?

Like if Jcapper used HDW instead or HTR used Bris instead, etc.?

Lefty
12-17-2007, 05:04 PM
INFRONt, don't know if this may acct for the 1 or 2% in results, but bris files contain a variant and tsn does not.

Tipster1
12-22-2007, 12:03 AM
What I don't get once you pay Bris or TSN for their data files you can use it for whatever software you have as long as it is designed to import that data. But when it comes to HDW data and you wanted to use different HDW types of software you got to buy that same files over and over again?

Meaning even though it's the same data company it must be formatted differently since HTR data won't import into Netcapper and that won't import into HSH. Why don't HDW just have one type of formatted files like Bris and TSN have and offer it at one unlimited monthly rate or even by individual files as Bris and TSN does? Wow, what a monopoly they have going on basically saying if you won't to try or use different HDW software programs you have to pay us for every one every month.

BillW
12-22-2007, 12:18 AM
What I don't get once you pay Bris or TSN for their data files you can use it for whatever software you have as long as it is designed to import that data. But when it comes to HDW data and you wanted to use different HDW types of software you got to buy that same files over and over again?


Have you asked HDW? It is their product and I assume their decision to sell it that way.


Meaning even though it's the same data company it must be formatted differently since HTR data won't import into Netcapper and that won't import into HSH. Why don't HDW just have one type of formatted files like Bris and TSN have and offer it at one unlimited monthly rate or even by individual files as Bris and TSN does? Wow, what a monopoly they have going on basically saying if you won't to try or use different HDW software programs you have to pay us for every one every month.

They aren't a monopoly, they compete with BRIS/TSN, DRF, ITS etc.

Tipster1
12-22-2007, 12:24 AM
Yes it is their product but don't you think that they would attract more subscribers and be more fair to the consumer but offering one type of file format as all these other companies do? It's not that their monthly charge is high it's just that each subscription is only good for ONE Software Program if I am understanding this correctly?

Lefty
12-22-2007, 01:16 AM
Tipster, HDW is tailored to individual prms because each vendor gets a piece of the action. How else do you think Ken Massa can offer HTR for free. It's because he make some money on the files.

Tipster1
12-22-2007, 01:44 AM
I understand this since HTR is free and Ken has to get paid somehow. But what about the other HDW programs since most have an initial charges? Can any of them use the same files or no matter what whether free or not each uses specific formats tailored to each individual program and can not be swapped? If so, then it seems Bris and Tsn are still the best data deals on the Net since at least they can be used by more than one type of software.

Lefty
12-22-2007, 02:16 AM
Tipster, even though vendors charge, except Purdy and Massa, they also get a piece of the money HDW charges for the data. That's why ea HDW file is prgmed for one specific prgm. They are not interchangeable for this reason.
TSN ProCaps files are the best data deal out there at $59.95 a mo. EXCEPT, if you really like one of the prgms that use HDW then you must use those files.

Tipster1
12-22-2007, 03:25 AM
TSN ProCaps files are the best data deal out there at $59.95 a mo. EXCEPT, if you really like one of the prgms that use HDW then you must use those files.

Thanks Lefty. I agree TSN gives a great deal and at least with those files you have a few software choices to use them with. But as you said if you want to try or use a HDW software you have no choice but to pay them. But which one software to go with since you can't afford to buy all different HDW files?

Lefty
12-22-2007, 11:31 AM
Which one? That's the 64,000 question. I have used 4 of them at difftimes but have finally decided to use just prgms that will take the Procaps files. But that's my decision. We all come to diff conclusions and diff prgma; that's Horse Racing!

Tipster1
12-22-2007, 12:42 PM
Which one? That's the 64,000 question. I have used 4 of them at difftimes but have finally decided to use just prgms that will take the Procaps files. But that's my decision. We all come to diff conclusions and diff prgma; that's Horse Racing!

So you have actually subscribed to HDW at one or more times to try some of their programs out? The two most popular it seems are HTR and HSH but have only checked out HTR since it has a demo or should I say free working program. Have you tried both of these? If so it sounds like you weren't that impressed since you went back to Procap file software?

I also use only software that takes Procap files. I have over a years worth of original zipped files so I can quickly build a database in any software. What main Procaps style software have you found best to work for you? If you rather PM me no problem.

Lefty
12-22-2007, 07:07 PM
I have used HTR, HSH ALLINONE and Synergism 6. I just couldn't afford to go for the months it takes to gain proficiency in these prgms although I tried to with a couple. Don't get me wrong; these are all good prgms and i know people that win with them; just not for me.
I bght the TIPS program and it's mY NOW prgm. Who knows, next month i may be using something else. I get bored with one prgm usually and the Procaps files give me the latitude to entertain my whim. I'm a small bettor with no illusions about becoming a pro.

dartman51
12-26-2007, 11:22 PM
EquiSim also has a database program which does a nice job of sorting info. You can even do a d-base querie to see different info ie: how a certain trainer does with fts, 1st off lay off and so on. It works with the pro caps data files.

dartman51
12-26-2007, 11:27 PM
I have used HTR, HSH ALLINONE and Synergism 6. I just couldn't afford to go for the months it takes to gain proficiency in these prgms although I tried to with a couple. Don't get me wrong; these are all good prgms and i know people that win with them; just not for me.
I bght the TIPS program and it's mY NOW prgm. Who knows, next month i may be using something else. I get bored with one prgm usually and the Procaps files give me the latitude to entertain my whim. I'm a small bettor with no illusions about becoming a pro.


Damn Lefty, you sound like me and my flavor of the month club. I probably have 40 or 50 software programs dating back to 1985 when my first software was RACE COM. Used the BRIS multi files. My first venture into AI. How's that for a trip down memory lane??