Absolutely Incredible DU Thread.......

[JustRalph]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2431804

This thread at Democrat Underground is stunning in some ways and painfully illustrative in others. Note this part of the thread starters post:


"To anyone wealthy reading this, I do not give a shit about how hard you struggled to get where you are... "

Here is the thead start:

Kansas Wyatt (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-08-07 08:17 PM
Original message
How many would like to see the Wealthy TAXED to extinction?

Come on now, while the rest of us have been getting poorer over the last thirty years, the Wealthy Elite have hi-jacked our government and replaced it with a Corporate Government to benefit only them, at our expense.

Who here supports an immediate correction to the growing income gap divide, by taxing the rich to extinction, so they can take their place in society among the rest of us and can no longer live off the backs of others?

What would be an appropriate tax for the wealthy, considering they are the ones who benefited by driving up the national debt and who owned the politicians driving up the debt?

To anyone wealthy reading this, I do not give a shit about how hard you struggled to get where you are... All of us are not presented with the 'sacrifice and work hard, and you'll get your reward' opportunity, and all of us do not fit in the cookie cutter mold that you followed. Most of us work hard, get nowhere, and often still fall behind as well. The upper class had it's chance to make things right for those less fortunate, and blew it.

~please go read this one~ Wow!

[ArlJim78]

it reads like the rough draft of the democratic party platform.

[Tom]

Was the poster John Edwards?:lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Workers of the world....UNITE!

Down with AMERIKA!

:lol:

[kenwoodallpromos]

"All of us are not presented with the... opportunity"
Why does he want make a "correction" at the end of the line, by taxes, instead of wanting to be informed about the opportunities?
IMO to many libs "correction" just means redistribution of cash after being made, or reparations, not easier ways of education, networking, and also marketing skills and merchandise.
He should be pushing for more internet educating, creative thinking, and access to corp and retail store buyers.

[Overlay]

"All of us are not presented with the... opportunity"
Why does he want make a "correction" at the end of the line, by taxes, instead of wanting to be informed about the opportunities?
IMO to many libs "correction" just means redistribution of cash after being made, or reparations, not easier ways of education, networking, and also marketing skills and merchandise.
He should be pushing for more internet educating, creative thinking, and access to corp and retail store buyers.

This is the point that Robert Ringer made in his book Restoring the American Dream. He said that, although freedom and equality are both cherished American ideals, as long as people are given the freedom to go as far as their own talents and industriousness will take them, there will inevitably be disparities in the end result, with some individuals becoming more prosperous than others. Government's main obligation is in providing equal access to the front end of the process, and then to get out of the way, to allow the collective efforts of the people to lead to the improvement of life for all citizens. This is really what true, classic liberalism (such as advocated by Jefferson, the founder of what became the Democratic Party) stood for -- not redistribution of the outcome of the process to achieve equality of results.

[ddog]

but gvt doesn't work ,right?

so,it can't and doesn't provide that equal access to the front end,right?

so,there you go......


down with gvt!
down with reason!
down with man!

rapture now!!!

[Overlay]

but gvt doesn't work ,right?

so,it can't and doesn't provide that equal access to the front end,right?

so,there you go......

Your tongue-in-cheek point notwithstanding, I should have said, "Government's main obligation is in providing equal access to the front end of the process through the passage and enforcement of laws designed for that purpose, and then to get out of the way...." The government should provide the legal framework that opens the door. It's then up to each individual to walk through it. And if they don't avail themselves of that opportunity, it's the individual's choice and responsibility, not the government's problem to remedy. (The Declaration of Independence listed the unalienable rights of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", not "life, liberty, and the guarantee of happiness".)

[DJofSD]

The government should provide the legal framework that opens the door. It's then up to each individual to walk through it. And if they don't avail themselves of that opportunity, it's the individual's choice and responsibility, not the government's problem to remedy. (The Declaration of Independence listed the unalienable rights of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", not "life, liberty, and the guarantee of happiness".)

Exactly -- no more, no less.

[ljb]

Here are a few quotes from an article regarding Burger King’s refusal to pay workers another 1 cent a pound for picking Tomatoes.
Florida tomato pickers started a protest march last week at the Miami office of investment bank colossus Goldman Sachs. For good reason.

Firms like Goldman, Texas Pacific, and Bain, typically buy up a hurting corporate property with borrowed money, then tap the company's operating cash flow -- fast food companies do generate plenty of cash -- to pay off the resulting debt.

Last year, for instance, Burger King borrowed $350 million in February and then paid out $367 million in dividends to the company's owners, the good people at Goldman, Bain, and Texas Pacific. Then those good people, who had been collecting a $9 million annual fee for managing Burger King, collected another $30 million for agreeing to cancel that "management" contract.

Last year, analyst Eric Schlosser points out, the over $200 million in holiday bonuses that went to the top 12 executives at Goldman Sachs more than doubled the entire combined annual wages of southern Florida's 10,000 tomato pickers.

Long Live Kaptilism and the Aristocratic way.

[DJofSD]

Last year, for instance, Burger King borrowed $350 million in February and then paid out $367 million in dividends to the company's owners, the good people at Goldman, Bain, and Texas Pacific. Then those good people, who had been collecting a $9 million annual fee for managing Burger King, collected another $30 million for agreeing to cancel that "management" contract.

Looks like a Ponsi scheme to me. Why does RICO not apply here?

[Overlay]

Here are a few quotes from an article regarding Burger King’s refusal to pay workers another 1 cent a pound for picking Tomatoes.
Florida tomato pickers started a protest march last week at the Miami office of investment bank colossus Goldman Sachs. For good reason.

Firms like Goldman, Texas Pacific, and Bain, typically buy up a hurting corporate property with borrowed money, then tap the company's operating cash flow -- fast food companies do generate plenty of cash -- to pay off the resulting debt.

Last year, for instance, Burger King borrowed $350 million in February and then paid out $367 million in dividends to the company's owners, the good people at Goldman, Bain, and Texas Pacific. Then those good people, who had been collecting a $9 million annual fee for managing Burger King, collected another $30 million for agreeing to cancel that "management" contract.

Last year, analyst Eric Schlosser points out, the over $200 million in holiday bonuses that went to the top 12 executives at Goldman Sachs more than doubled the entire combined annual wages of southern Florida's 10,000 tomato pickers.

Long Live Kaptilism and the Aristocratic way.

As I mentioned previously, inequality in the distribution of wealth is an inevitable result of a free capitalist system.

No one defends illegality in the acquisition of wealth, if it has occurred. There is a system in place to prosecute and punish such violators.

The workers also have a right to protest their conditions, which is another benefit of our free system. And, despite their protests, assuming they are immigrants (legal or not), would they fare better in their former homes, or go back to them if they had the choice?

And, regardless of what those workers are making, what is to keep them from improving their position through education and their own industriousness? How many millions, who started with nothing, have done just that throughout the course of Amercian history?

[JustRalph]

Looks like a Ponsi scheme to me. Why does RICO not apply here?


Because everything they did was legal.............

I have to tell you, the way some of these bankers use the system is downright bullshit. But, until somebody steps in.........it is going to go on forever.

[Tom]

The only things the libs do not want to re-distribute is responsiblity and hard work. They prefer to wait until the harvest is in then whine about thier share.

[DJofSD]

They prefer to wait until the harvest is in then whine about thier share.

So, we're ants and they're grasshoppers, no?

[kenwoodallpromos]

but gvt doesn't work ,right?

so,it can't and doesn't provide that equal access to the front end,right?

so,there you go......


down with gvt!
down with reason!
down with man!

rapture now!!!
Which Gov't? We have state and local gov'ts that do not enter into very many discussions.
The Govt can set up TV and internet space for anyone (inclufding prisoners) to remote learn just like sitting in a class listening to a lecture. With every welfare or unemplaoyment check it can send out info on what type of workers are needed most and where. It can provide experience and interships for people wanting to qualify for jobs. It can make it much more simple and less expensive to obtian provisionary or regular patents and trademarks and coordinate companies looking for new products to sell. It can do a better job at showing young people prior to getting out of high school how business works, inform them of where the non-skilled jobs are and set up more training for occupations that there is a big shortage. It can make it even easier to get into self-employment service jobs cutting through govt red tape and teaching about reporting for taxes and employee deductions. It can stop punishing people who are on public assistance and wanting to get into the job market, especially part-time. It can verify and coordinate which employers really cannot find Americans to do jobs and control better which workers are coming into wlork which jobs.
All levels of Govt can do what it does best for individuals- collect and distribute data, give advice, and give a little help to those trying to survive or advance- you know, exectly what the Fed does now with corporations, big farming interests, banks, and industry!

[ljb]

As I mentioned previously, inequality in the distribution of wealth is an inevitable result of a free capitalist system.
no argument here.


No one defends illegality in the acquisition of wealth, if it has occurred. There is a system in place to prosecute and punish such violators.

What about morals ? Are you suggesting the actions being taken by these raiders is both legal and morally acceptable?

The workers also have a right to protest their conditions, which is another benefit of our free system. And, despite their protests, assuming they are immigrants (legal or not), would they fare better in their former homes, or go back to them if they had the choice?

Is this your America love it or leave it statement?

And, regardless of what those workers are making, what is to keep them from improving their position through education and their own industriousness? How many millions, who started with nothing, have done just that throughout the course of Amercian history? Are you suggesting we provide education for these immigrants ?
Basically I am not talking about the plight of these workers as much as showing disgust with the actions of the big money folks involved here. What are they adding to the welfare of this country ? Their greed is obnoxious.