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Indulto
12-04-2007, 09:01 PM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42316 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42316)
Call for Change Begins Symposium
by Tom LaMarra

… Parham said the pari-mutuel industry is being hindered by at least three things on the human level: a lack of leadership, personal agendas, and uninformed decision-makers. As for the industry as a whole, it must redefine what it is — an entertainment business or a gambling enterprise.

Parham argued racing is about betting, and that “opening and advertising our pools as financial markets will attract large risk capital and will grow handle and revenue at a much faster rate than trying to win over one $2 bettor at a time.” He criticized racing executives who argue the “whales” are damaging the game and chasing away the average bettor.

... “Racetracks seem to believe that it is their job to ensure that all customers have an equal chance in losing less than the (pari-mutuel takeout rate).

... “What is conveniently missed here is that the customer who does well is a customer that gives the highest handle. This has to be the only industry in the world that wants to punish its best customers and reward its worst.”

… Parham, who said his $2.4 billion in wagers since 2000 contributed about $100 million in revenue for horse racing, argued non-live facilities such as off-track betting parlors, online wagering companies, and casino race books do have an investment in horse racing. Some racetrack owners and horsemen believe outlets that don’t have expenses directly tied to putting on live racing programs should pay more for signals. ...Is the speaker a member of the NTRA Player's Panel? ;)

I have difficulty viewing 1% of players contributing 10% of handle as being "punished" if they're not permitted an advantage over the other 99%.

If that 1% took their money out of the game, would it really kill the game or would some tracks have to close in order to distribute the remaining 90% profitably?

We might instead see more "experiments" with lower takeout to attract the lost handle if, indeed, it actually ALL went away. The results of California's no-rebate policy will be interesting to watch, given the scrutiny already applied to IRG. Maybe RGS will be next.

Hard to believe CA won't eventually match NYRA/OTB rewards, assuming it sticks around.

thespaah
12-04-2007, 09:32 PM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42316 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42316)
Is the speaker a member of the NTRA Player's Panel? ;)

I have difficulty viewing 1% of players contributing 10% of handle as being "punished" if they're not permitted an advantage over the other 99%.

If that 1% took their money out of the game, would it really kill the game or would some tracks have to close in order to distribute the remaining 90% profitably?

We might instead see more "experiments" with lower takeout to attract the lost handle if, indeed, it actually ALL went away. The results of California's no-rebate policy will be interesting to watch, given the scrutiny already applied to IRG. Maybe RGS will be next.

Hard to believe CA won't eventually match NYRA/OTB rewards, assuming it sticks around. Some say that "whales" should get the red carpet treatment at tracks the same way they do at Vegas casinos. I disagree. The wagering format is different. The casions extend comps and perks to big players becuase the players play against "the house". SO if the whales lose the house cleans up and they get their "investment" back anyway. Because in the long run the casinos always win.
I read a long time ago an article in the Form or some other publication that tracks should treat their patrons like valued guests rather than cattle or some such .
Horse racing is poorly marketed. Tracks have virtually abandoned entire sections of their repsective markets. People in their 20's and 30's ignore the races. This is the generation of instant gratification. They are more apt to bet their money where there is faster action. They go to casinos to get that. They don't want to wait 30 mins between wagering opportunities. Tracks have to get these people back as they make up one of the largest age groups of the US population. I cannot fathom why it is track managements do not take apage out of the books of the tracks in Japan and other Pacific Rim countries where Breeders Cup sized crowds routinely show up and bet with both fists. . What are they doing that American tracks are not doing.
I do not know. Any ideas?

Pace Cap'n
12-04-2007, 10:29 PM
$2,400,000,000 over seven years is about a million a day. Anyone really believe that?

thespaah
12-04-2007, 10:52 PM
$2,400,000,000 over seven years is about a million a day. Anyone really believe that? I don't quite understand your point.

Pace Cap'n
12-04-2007, 11:13 PM
I don't quite understand your point.

Well, that's a lotta cake.

kenwoodallpromos
12-05-2007, 02:43 AM
Sounds like he thinks the whales should either be allowed to get the best rebates or have a lower takeout rate.
At 2.4 Billion and giving 100 million as track revenue sounds like he loses 5% of his bankroll. So why does he say that customers who do well are the ones with the biggest handles? He still loses overall, and probably the 5% loss is about right for the whales who bet $100k to show and often cause tracks to lose money on negative pools. I think the $2 bettors are actually the best customers not the worst as far as contributing to the track revenue, if the average $2 bettor gets less than a 95% return on their bets. I think he is a little mixed up as far as thinking he provides more income for the track than the small bettor! :cool:

Kelso
12-05-2007, 07:06 AM
They don't want to wait 30 mins between wagering opportunities.


Important point. Makes me wonder if infield-sized screens couldn't be used to greater advantage.

Run one or two remote races on the big screens between live races, alerting audience which races are upcoming with a "crawl" at the top/bottom of the screens.

When on-track, I occassionally watch the simucasts on the wall-mounted TVs out of idle interest, but I'm not sufficiently interested to bet them. However, if some of them were made more a part of the local action, I might bet at least some of them just to have a horse for which to yell along with the rest of the crowd. Not sure what folks could use to 'cap such 'featured' simulcasts; but that problem could be solved, I expect, with a little imagination.

jma
12-05-2007, 07:59 AM
Important point. Makes me wonder if infield-sized screens couldn't be used to greater advantage.

Run one or two remote races on the big screens between live races, alerting audience which races are upcoming with a "crawl" at the top/bottom of the screens.

When on-track, I occassionally watch the simucasts on the wall-mounted TVs out of idle interest, but I'm not sufficiently interested to bet them. However, if some of them were made more a part of the local action, I might bet at least some of them just to have a horse for which to yell along with the rest of the crowd. Not sure what folks could use to 'cap such 'featured' simulcasts; but that problem could be solved, I expect, with a little imagination.

Most of the people I see at the track (those few that are there) are betting simulcasts much more actively than the "live" racing. Since 85 to 90 percent of an average track's handle comes from off-track sources, obviously most people are betting simulcasts and choosing from 30 to 40 races every hour. So, the old "waiting a half hour between races" gripe is really outdated. You can bet a simulcast race every few minutes if you wanted to and have almost constant action---though how this would be a smart plan I have no idea.

trigger
12-05-2007, 05:53 PM
The trouble with current rebates to "whales" in NA horse racing is they are too big because the house advantage (in horse racing, the takeout) is too big.
For instance, I don't think any casino rewards its "whale" table or slot players to the tune of 10-15 % because the casinos advantage is ,at most, 5% and usually a lot less in these games. Even in poker where the players are betting against each other, the casino "drag" is under 5%. The casinos would go broke very quickly giving rebates/comps in the 10-15% range (unless they have a identified a true loser).
IMHO, the current high rebates in the horse racing game provide too much of an advantage to the big bettors that will eventually grind down the so-called $2 bettor (actually,the average bet per race nowadays for a weekend warrior/"$2 bettor" is probably in the $10-15 range) that will eventually drive away most players.
In order to survive, horse racing has to reduce both the takeout to the 10% range and the number of tracks as high handle(like Hong Kong) will be necessary for the remaining 5 or 6 tracks. Rebates for whales would then have to be in the 3% range which will give the weekend warriors a fighting chance.

lamboguy
12-05-2007, 06:23 PM
teh takeout was around 7%, and the racetracks had 30k people there on a saturday afternoon, with large handles. i remember sulfolk downs with 2 million dollar handles without simulcasting and in the late 1960's.

i was at belmont in october and they claimed that there were 2000 people there, i doubt if they had 200.....


just a sugestion as far as rebates go, maybe they should do the smaething as the japeneese and australians and offer both parimutual wagering and bookmakers at the tracks. bookmakers would pay large amounts of money to get licensed...the tracks would earn, and the large player would be able to bet what they want without changing the odds

Indulto
12-05-2007, 09:43 PM
... In order to survive, horse racing has to reduce both the takeout to the 10% range and the number of tracks as high handle(like Hong Kong) will be necessary for the remaining 5 or 6 tracks. Rebates for whales would then have to be in the 3% range which will give the weekend warriors a fighting chance.Or perhaps racing days:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/90814.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/90814.html)
Slots-enhanced purses hurting field sizes By MATT HEGARTY

Actually, the most interesting part of the article was the final section:
...Account-wagering discussion

… the double-digit growth in account wagering has also created some significant sources of frustration for fans as companies scramble to protect their marketplace turf and their share of account-wagering revenues.

… Ron Geary, … , called on the racing industry to eliminate some of those problems by creating one central account-wagering operation that would allow bettors to wager on any signal in racing. But a subsequent panel illustrated why such a concept seems to be a distant pipe dream.

Scott Daruty, …, said racetracks needed to take back control of their racing signals from third-party account-wagering companies, but that policy has resulted in one of the largest sources of frustration this year for account-wagering customers.

... [YouBet] wanted access to all signals through contracts that would split revenues equally among account-wagering companies, horsemen, and tracks.

…the biggest problem in racing: With handle stagnant and more third parties at the table to distribute racing signals, there just isn't enough revenue to go around.

NYPlayer
12-05-2007, 10:23 PM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42316 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42316)
Is the speaker a member of the NTRA Player's Panel? ;)

I have difficulty viewing 1% of players contributing 10% of handle as being "punished" if they're not permitted an advantage over the other 99%.

If that 1% took their money out of the game, would it really kill the game or would some tracks have to close in order to distribute the remaining 90% profitably?

We might instead see more "experiments" with lower takeout to attract the lost handle if, indeed, it actually ALL went away. The results of California's no-rebate policy will be interesting to watch, given the scrutiny already applied to IRG. Maybe RGS will be next.

Hard to believe CA won't eventually match NYRA/OTB rewards, assuming it sticks around.

I have no trouble with the whales in the game, and I think modest rewards are in order for racing's best customers. NYRA gives away as much as 7% per month to those players that gamble large amounts, but I don't think that all of what Parham is saying is accurate. NYRA tracks, for instance, have seen a decline in total handle over the past several years, rebates notwithstanding, while California racing, which up until now has had no rebate program, experienced a growth in handle last year. It would appear there are other economic dynamics involved in understanding the race betting business.

BillW
12-05-2007, 10:30 PM
It would appear there are other economic dynamics involved in understanding the race betting business.

There is! For instance I've been locked out of the NYRA pools since the goofy ADW stuff has gone on. It's an interesting strategy to lock bettors out and expect it to build handle. :rolleyes:

Indulto
12-05-2007, 10:49 PM
... NYRA tracks, for instance, have seen a decline in total handle over the past several years, rebates notwithstanding, while California racing, which up until now has had no rebate program, experienced a growth in handle last year. It would appear there are other economic dynamics involved in understanding the race betting business.Apparently so.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/90793.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/90793.html)
Stagnant handle slows global deals
By MATT HEGARTY

… Few, if any, racing jurisdictions are creating new horse racing customers.

… In the United States, many racetracks are aggressively seeking a foothold in the estimated $110 billion foreign market for horse racing, in part to address flagging handle figures at home, where betting has stagnated at $15 billion.

... In the United Kingdom, … , horse racing's share of the domestic betting market has been declining for a decade as bookmakers and betting exchanges increasingly diversify their betting products.

… in Japan, where betting handle has been in a freefall for a decade, declining from approximately $17 billion in 1997 to $12 billion in 2006. Japan prohibits betting on foreign simulcasts, principally to protect its own horse racing industry, and what incentive does the country have to siphon off betting revenues to another country when the domestic business is in such trouble?

… Currently, 10 countries take bets on all or a portion of Hong Kong's 78 racing programs, including the United States, despite the almost complete lack of a reciprocal arrangement with Hong Kong. And that's because of the contradictory incentives inherent in the system: Countries have far more to gain by getting their signals out than allowing more signals in.

Indulto
12-06-2007, 11:01 PM
http://www.drf.com/news/article/90827.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/90827.html)
Officials: Synthetic pros outweigh cons
By MATT HEGARTY

… Big bettors air their opinions

Artificial surfaces were also a topic at a panel on Thursday morning focusing on the needs of high-volume players. Of the three players appearing on the panel, two said that they have conscientiously avoided tracks with artificial surfaces because of difficulties associated with handicapping the races, while one said that his contrarian methods of handicapping benefited from the transition

… "I don't bet synthetic tracks," said Ernie Dahlman, a Las Vegas-based bettor who focuses on the New York circuit and says he bets approximately $10 million a year. "I'm kind of hoping that by the time everyone has synthetic tracks, I'll have been forced into getting it, or I'll be at the end of my career."

The panel also included Mike Maloney, a Lexington-based handicapper who said he bets approximately $6 million to $12 million a year.

… All the bettors on the panel said that they favored lowering the minimum bet for wagers, citing the development of 10-cent superfectas, which have proven popular among many rank-and-file bettors. All three also said that the exception to that rule should be the pick six, in the interest of creating carryovers.

David-LV
12-06-2007, 11:17 PM
$2,400,000,000 over seven years is about a million a day. Anyone really believe that?


Yes, I believe him. :) :)

Indulto
12-07-2007, 01:43 AM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42362 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42362)
Horsemen's Groups Form Coalition
by Tom LaMarra

Eight horsemen’s groups from around the United States have joined together to form a coalition designed to improve racing economics, specifically in the area of generating more purse revenue from interstate simulcasts.

… The initial members are mostly affiliates of the National Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association: the Florida HBPA, Kentucky HBPA, Louisiana HBPA, Ohio HBPA, Pennsylvania HBPA, Texas Horsemen’s Partnership, and Virginia HBPA. The Delaware Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Association also joined.

… “The business is changing, the marketplace is changing, and horsemen needed to form the equivalent,” Reeves said. “It’s a way for the industry’s horsemen’s groups to share resources. I can say frankly the Ohio HBPA by itself couldn’t afford to hire Wilson Shirley.”

… It’s going to give horsemen a strong voice in dealing with issues of simulcasting and the economics of the industry as it relates to horsemen. The horsemen have been somewhat on the sidelines, but we produce the product.”

Foreman noted racetracks have formed cooperatives for the purpose of buying and selling simulcast signals.

Reeves said the THG has retained a law firm to advise the horsemen’s groups on potential anti-trust issues. “We’re trying to act accordingly,” he said. http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2007/December/06/Horseman-groups-unite-to-create-new-organization.aspx (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2007/December/06/Horseman-groups-unite-to-create-new-organization.aspx)
Horseman groups unite to create new organization

… "The Thoroughbred Horsemen's Group is the logical next step for horsemen's organizations dealing with simulcast issues in a multi-jurisdictional business environment with multi-track consortiums and integrated companies like TrackNet Media," said racehorse owner Bob Reeves, the newly elected president of the Thoroughbred Horsemen's Group.

… "We believe that our company will create efficiencies in simulcasting administration and implementation; enhance the effectiveness of horsemen's organizations as representatives of the industry's most important stakeholder, the racehorse owner; and in the long-term help improve the competitiveness and productivity of the Thoroughbred racing industry.The formation of this group, combined with Ron Geary's call for a "central account-wagering operation," suggests to me that ADWs will eventually be forced out as an entity that takes a percentage of handle to one whose income is generated from per-transaction fees.

If intertrack signal fees are also corrected, it would then make sense to restrict rebates to whales betting directly into the host track's pools and to on-track attendees.

Comment (#3) by poster wmcorrow in response to the following blog entry by John Pricci: A Viable Candidate for Racing Commissioner
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/a-viable-candidate-for-racing-commissioner/#comments
… It was Churchill Downs’ Tom Meeker who started acquiring racetracks around the country soon after simulcasting came into existence; his idea was to corner the market, so to speak, then bundle the racetracks owned and sell the signal to off-track wagering sites - Las Vegas being the prominent site at the time. Mr. Meeker had visions of sugar plums. If it weren’t for Stronach, he would have succeeded; Stronach is owed a thank-you from the industry for jumping in and keeping Churchill from owning all the tracks.Interesting viewpoint.

Indulto
12-15-2007, 02:10 AM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42774 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42774)
TOC, Arkansas HBPA Join Coalition
by Blood-Horse Staff

… The respective boards of directors of the TOC and Arkansas HBPA voted to join the THG, which now has 10 member groups associated with 37 racetracks in the United States. The other members are the Delaware Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Association, Florida HBPA, Kentucky HBPA, Louisiana HBPA, Ohio HBPA, Pennsylvania HBPA, Texas Horsemen’s Partnership, and Virginia HBPA.

… “From its base in California, TOC has always been a national leader for racehorse owners, and TOC president Drew Couto was instrumental in getting this whole project off the ground three years ago. TOC’s active participation in THG will be an important factor in our efforts to productively address national simulcast issues on behalf of horsemen.”

Said Couto: “TOC sees the Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Group as a valuable agency for racehorse owners to begin correcting the problems of the simulcast industry’s outmoded and inadequate business structures. We’ve long had good informal working relationships with other horsemen’s associations, and the time has come for all of us to seek solutions on behalf of all owners. We are confident that horsemen can improve this business and believe that THG is the right vehicle at the right time.” …

Indulto
01-05-2008, 03:21 PM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42977
Youbet Shut Out From Gulfstream
by Ryan Conley…A model detour

The Thoroughbred Horsemen's Group was incorporated in early December for the purpose of pursuing a new account wagering model that returns more revenue to purses. The THG now has 12 members, most of them affiliates of the National HBPA.

The National HBPA has advocated an environment in which there is no signal exclusivity in the marketplace. But the deal between TrackNet Media and the Florida HBPA appears to conflict with that.

Bob Reeves, a member of the Ohio HBPA board of directors and president of the THG, said Jan. 4 all the group has done thus far is incorporate and have an organizational meeting. He did not comment specifically on the Florida developments.

"We have not launched an ADW strategy or anything else yet," Reeves said.

Reeves said the goal of the new horsemen's coalition is broad distribution of signals and a "fair contribution" to purses. He said the current account wagering system as it pertains to horsemen's revenue is too complicated.

"There has to be a simple financial model everybody understands," Reeves said. "People can't figure out if they are getting properly compensated or not. There is a lot of mistrust out there."

thespaah
01-05-2008, 07:01 PM
what I am trying to figure is why the hell The NYSRWB would suddenly and without cause kick TVG and HRTV to the curb.
TVG a partner of the NYRA tracks for all these years has been for some inexplicable reason to go to hell.
that really sucks..
I hope whatever the people in NY were bothered with gets rectified pretty soon.

Robert Fischer
01-05-2008, 08:01 PM
As someone who wagers between five and twenty million annually, I am tired of hearing these self described whales.

Pace Cap'n
01-05-2008, 09:15 PM
As someone who wagers between five and twenty million annually, I am tired of hearing these self described whales.

That is quite a range. What could acccount for such a disparity?

Indulto
02-18-2008, 04:27 PM
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/February/18/TRA-annual-meeting-to-feature-familiar-topics.aspx
TRA annual meeting to feature familiar topics
by Ed DeRosa... the Harness Tracks of America Inc./Thoroughbred Racing Associations of North America Inc. joint annual meeting ...

Arrivals and registration begin February 17 at the Renaissance Vinoy in St. Petersburg, Florida, with meetings and a welcome reception on February 18 followed by general sessions on February 19-20.

Wagering topics dominate day one with "Trust in the Pari-Mutuel System: Looking at Late Odds Changes" beginning the general sessions followed by "Swimming with Whales: Will They Beach Offshore or can They be Returned to the Racetrack?"

Mike Maloney, one of North America’s largest bettors, is on panel for the latter topic.

... Day one concludes with a panel on "Keeping the ‘Race’ in Racinos." New York Racing Association President Charlie Hayward, fresh off a 25-year franchise renewal, is on the seven-member panel. Aqueduct is expected to expand gaming in the wake of the franchise agreement.

Day two shifts from wagering to regulatory topics with Bennett Liebman, acting director of the government law center, discussing the Mitchell Report and Racing followed by a panel discussion, "Medication and Regulation: Can Research Succeed Without Stronger, Meaningful Support from Regulators; including Prosecuting the Guilty while Protecting the Innocent."

... The general sessions conclude with a panel discussing "Racing and New Technologies: Having Missed the Television Boat a Half Century Ago, Will We be Left to Sink Again Without Adapting to New Forms of Communication."

kenwoodallpromos
02-18-2008, 08:37 PM
"Swimming with Whales" "Having Missed the Television Boat a Half Century Ago, Will We be Left to Sink Again".
How can an industry who keeps missing the boat and does not want to make waves look for whales from the dock?
Don't they know what killer whales eat?
From thew Seaworld website- "2. Fishes, squids, seals, sea lions, walruses, birds, sea turtles, otters, penguins, cetaceans (both mysticete and odontocete), polar bears, reptiles, and even a moose -- they have all been found in the stomach contents of killer whales.

3. Perhaps the most interesting thing found in the stomachs of killer whales is the remains of other killer whales."

JPinMaryland
02-18-2008, 11:38 PM
I might have believed you if they found CHALK in those entrails.. :D

Indulto
02-22-2008, 12:17 AM
http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=61015 (http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=61015)
HTA/TRA General sessions begin
By Nicole Kraft… Eaves … called the modern-day pari-mutuel system “out of place” in 2008 and declared the status quo to be “impossible.” He noted, however, that the rebate facilities automatically start off at an advantage with which the tracks cannot compete.

“They have no cost structure that resembles the cost structure of racetracks,” Eaves said. “Those who believe in rebates have to realize the tracks are competing against competitors we let into our business on a basis that is fundamentally unfair. The industry has to come together to solve this.

“We shouldn’t invite the third party to the table. We have to get rid of it.”

… the introduction of slots at tracks was not “realistic” to put thousands of fans in the racing seats, but it does give tracks tools to try and attract new gamblers.

… “More advantages come from a racino than are present at a racetrack,” he said. “It’s a matter of being part of something with rewards that come in other ways.”

… Gural also stressed the proliferation of race dates as a major issue confronting tracks and racinos.

“The more you race, the less you race for,” he said. “That is the wrong model politicians are using. They listen to horsemen who come in with some sad tale of woe (to get more race dates). But the more you race, the less you race for and less popular you will be (with fans). If you are going to race year round, in a building that holds 40,000 people and gets only 3,000 people, you are not going to be successful.” …http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/iss0208/htameetingday20219.html (http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/iss0208/htameetingday20219.html)
Execs Analyze Racinos at HTA Meeting
By Dean Hoffman… Gural argued that the business model of racing is broken.

… "The more you race, the less popular racing is. Year around racing doesn't work."

Gural added that change in racing is not accomplished easily, even with bettors.

"It's been tough to convince old horse players to use betting machines," he said. "Even though they get points and rebates by putting a card into a betting machine, converting them to using betting machines is a slow process."

… Nick Eaves of Woodbine Entertainment said that racing created the problem it now faces.

"Racing relinquished control of its pari-mutuel product," he emphasized. "We abdicated our responsibility. Five percent of our customers make up 60 percent of our wagering. We have to regain control of our product distribution, product pricing, and to whom it's sold to make sure that the whales [major bettors] don't beach offshore."

… Maury Wolff noted that the horseplayer today has "quite a few more options" than in past years. He stressed that the price of betting, or takeout, is a driving factor in determining where those wagers are placed.

"Pricing is everything," said Wolff. "You cannot consistently beat that 25 percent takeout on a Trifecta."

Wolff said that racing was not a good steward of its product in years past.

"Racing has had trouble competing on its own, and its answer to that problem is to get a slots license."

Eaves said change is essential. "The status quo is impossible," he emphasized. …http://www.drf.com/news/article/92460.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/20/AR2008022002648.html)
Deals create roadblocks for bettors
By Andrew Beyer… Maury Wolff, economist and gambler, explains it this way: "It's a rational business structure for the tracks to control everything and set their own prices. In Canada (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Canada?tid=informline), Woodbine owns everything -- the track, the betting site, the TV network. Tracks in the U.S. had been reluctant to foot the bill [for betting site and a TV network] until they realized that this is where the money is." This transition to tracks' control of their own product is creating the current chaos.

Since the Churchill-Magna consortium triggered this upheaval, most horseplayers view them as villains, but Scott Daruty, president of TrackNet, insisted that this is a misperception.

"I know that horseplayers are exasperated," he said, "but TrackNet and our affiliated companies are exasperated, too." He said that TrackNet's goal is for everybody to have "broad, non-exclusive content." All tracks would be available to all Internet and phone-betting providers, and those providers would pay fees that keep the racing industry healthy.

… The New York Racing Association has ended its exclusive arrangement with TVG and made its signal available to all providers, which may encourage other tracks to follow suit. In California (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/California?tid=informline), the state's horse racing board, led by Shapiro, pressured the account-wagering service into an eight-month agreement under which they would all be nonexclusive. There is also some hope that Horse Racing TV could get its signal on DirecTV, which would give the TrackNet tracks a much larger viewing audience.

… With its fan base dwindling, with its national wagering totals in decline, the sport can't continue to throw up obstructions in the way of the fans who love the game and want to bet.

Indulto
02-23-2008, 04:29 PM
For DRF subscribers:

Finding ways to catch whales
By STAN BERGSTEIN… Maury Wolff … and … Nick Eaves … were discussing whether "whales" - the game's biggest bettors, of which Wolf is one - could be returned to racetracks from other betting venues.

... Wolff said that the best for customers was deregulation and more competitive pricing in the marketplace. The worst, he said, was an industry that historically has been heavily regulated and has no pricing flexibility. He said that while players today have far more options than 10 or 20 years ago, there was a fundamental need for a pricing model that rewards the biggest players as well as recognizing the needs of smaller players.

… Eaves said whether you called it a rebate problem, awards program, takeout adjustment, or whatever, there was no question that it is a critical issue and that any solution required an increase in wagering. The challenge, he said, is to keep third parties from taking the lead on the role of rebates. ...

... "If a rebate structure has to exist," Eaves said, "it has to reward the customer who spends the most and frankly earns it, but it must be a neutral one. We can't continue as an industry to export that function to third parties that are creating the damage."

Wolff pointed out that it depended on whether one considered hypothetical solutions or real-life scenarios. He asked how you deal with a third-party entity like New York City OTB, which he said has developed a remarkable distribution system.

When asked how that could be done, Eaves said it was the $64,000 question. There needs to be an industry strategy that includes each of the third-party participants, he said, because "for the most part, they are not going anywhere." They need to be contracted, he said, in a way that reflects the numbers they deliver, the level of investment that they have in the industry. …Any uniformly implemented “industry strategy” institutionalizing the rebated player advantage over the non-rebated player is guaranteed to terminate my participation as a bettor. It won't be a game any more. Does Hong Kong offer rebates?

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/February/19/Gaming-boosts-revenue-does-not-create-racing-fans-panel-says.aspx
Gaming boosts revenue, does not create racing fans, panel says
by Ed DeRosaExpanding gaming at racetracks has helped some operators stay in business, but several key racing executives have expressed concern that the subsidy from expanded gaming may disappear if the racing end of operations continues to lose money.

Revenue from expanded gaming helps fund capital improvements at racetracks and fatten purses from horsemen, but handle on racing has not increased and there is very little crossover between slots players and horseplayers.

… “The lack of a live bettor doesn’t bother me because a better product attracts more betting dollars,” Delaware Representative Bill Oberle (R-Beechers Lot) said. “... we have taken revenue and invested it in the industry by creating jobs and developing facilities.”

… the bottom line at many of these facilities is that while expanded gaming has helped horsemen and operators make more money, racing itself costs more to operate than the revenue it generates.

… “We want racing to be successful from a profit-loss standpoint, and that is difficult at some facilities,” McErlean said. “There’s too many racing dates. The major issue is that the horsemen do well, but the product available is not necessarily important. Slots sometimes create an insular community where the horsemen do well but the product hasn’t improved.”http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/February/20/Industry-reps-argue-prevalence-of-cheating-in-racing.aspx (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/February/20/Industry-reps-argue-prevalence-of-cheating-in-racing.aspx)
Industry reps argue prevalence of cheating in racing
by Ed DeRosaThere is unanimous consent among industry stakeholders that horse racing needs to improve at least the perception of cheating in the sport, but acrimony continues among groups as to whether that perception is correct and which party ultimately is responsible for policing the sport.

… It is not for lack of trying that those in a position of power have been unable to catch everyone who cheats. Regulators spend between $30-million and $40-million per year on drug testing, but they require more money for better testing. Where that money would and should come from is a complex question.

… “The ideal scenario is to test every horse pre race for as many drugs, but states pay $20 a sample,” RMTC Executive Director Scot Waterman, D.V.M., said. “The government implores us to be clean, but they don’t give us the money to do the job."

“The money we spend blows any other sport or country away, but that figure [$30-million-$40-million] hasn’t budged in 17 years.”

Premier Turf Club
02-23-2008, 05:05 PM
Any uniformly implemented “industry strategy” institutionalizing the rebated player advantage over the non-rebated player is guaranteed to terminate my participation as a bettor. It won't be a game any more. Does Hong Kong offer rebates?

YES.

Indulto
02-23-2008, 08:39 PM
YES.PTC,
Does the HKJC offer rebates directly to their customers on and off the track? Or is it bettors playing Hong Kong through ADWs who are getting the rebates. In either case, is the rate of rebate dependent upon volume?

Premier Turf Club
02-25-2008, 08:30 AM
HK Jockey Club offers rebates on certain types of losing wagers in excess of $10,000HK.

Indulto
02-26-2008, 04:16 AM
Take a look at the following excerpt from

http://www.bloodhorse.com/talkinhorses/RS022208.asp (http://www.bloodhorse.com/talkinhorses/RS022208.asp)
TALKIN HORSES
Richard Shapiro Chairman, California Horse Racing Board
Friday, Feb 22, 2008…Salinas, CA:
Can you tell us why the ADW Premier Turf Club hasn't been approved in California. They have some wagering features that I think would be great to use, if I were able to utilize their services.

Shapiro:
I don’t know this ADW company, and to my knowledge they have not applied to be licensed in California. They also need to work out an agreement with the California horsemen and a track so they have content to wager on in California. …To say he doesn’t know the company is not the same thing as saying he never heard of it, but it’s obviously time that CA residents here and other players who want to bet CA tracks through PTC let this man know that WE know this company and WE want to use its conditional betting features to wager at what we feel are fair odds without spending our lives in front of a computer.

Another petition might be in order to augment individual e-mails.