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chickenhead
12-02-2007, 08:44 PM
Alright! Doesn't this sound great?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071202/ts_nm/venezuela_referendum_dc

If his victory is confirmed, the referendum vote on a raft of reforms would allow Chavez -- in office since 1999 -- to run for reelection indefinitely, control foreign currency reserves, appoint loyalists over regional elected officials and censor the media if he declares an emergency.

Chavez has said he wants to rule for life and turn the major oil exporter into a socialist state.

King oooo-Go!

something for everyone:

"The reform is very important for the country, we want to support our president," said Marlene Vanegas, 70, who described herself as a "full-time revolutionary" and Chavez loyalist. "he was sent to us by God."

who knew ooo-go had the evangelical vote?

King OOOO-go!

Tom
12-02-2007, 09:38 PM
And he watches CNN.
Even though he is suing them!

JustRalph
12-02-2007, 10:55 PM
If this thing passes.............he places his head on a plate..............somebody will get him somewhere.......someday...........

and I hope they are trained by the U.S. Military

46zilzal
12-02-2007, 11:00 PM
According to exit polls, it passed.

hcap
12-03-2007, 06:16 AM
It was defeated.

Although I am in favor of reforms Chavez instituted for poor Venezuelans, and Chavez in general, potential President for life is an abuse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/world/americas/03venezuela.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

The Judge
12-03-2007, 09:19 AM
He used the democratic process to stay in power NOT military force, this is unlike Presidents For Life that this country routinely supports. If its good for one why not the other.

You see its not that he would continue to be elected that bothers folks, its that "you" have been taught not to like people that show as much independence as Hugo Chavez has. I was taught the same thing and it takes awhile to let it go, so I understand completely.

Its their country if they want to continue to re-elect the same person isn't there room for that in the democratic process? He followed the laws of HIS country. HE LOST!!! and from Hcap link he has accepted this fact.

Here is a man that should be praised and you all fine away to detract from what he has truely done. A "Banana Republic" and the ruler calls for a VOTE and the VOTE isn't rigged!!! Why didn't he just do to it the old fashion way?
This man is an example and a good one. In other countries the poor see that they have power and that voting might just work. Military dictators are losing power because their own Army won't supprot them. They are starting to say whoever the people vote in will be the winner of the election and the elections must show signs of fairness.

Chavez wants to use his countries wealth to help the poor in his country. What is his biggest "crime" and why is so hated? It is , he is friends with "Castro." He has enough independence to choose his own friends rather then let the United States tell him who to love. This is considered a fatal flaw to the way this country thinks and wants the rest of the world to think. Its O.K if you don't like the same people or countrites as the U.S,but you better HATE the same people and countries as the U.S.

If he stole and hid Millions or Billions dollars, put it into an off-shore account he would be loved by this country , The use of force against his own people while being denounce the U.S would never the less be exceptable.

In the old days force wouldn't even be denounced ,we would just crank-up the old propaganda press and say it was the only why to stop a communist take over. After crying WOLF for 80 years that doesn't work too well any more.

He has done what this country has said we wanted our "Banana Republics" to do. Of course we had no idea they would actually do it and then show some signs of Independence.

All I heard on this board has been negative about this man even by the so called "left". Its disgraceful you can give but not the ultimate not freedom and independence.

ArlJim78
12-03-2007, 10:47 AM
Chavez said before the election that a vote for the referendum was a vote for him, a vote against it was a vote for Bush. It looks like despite Chavez controlling the media and the entire machinery of the election in Venezuela, that Bush has won again!

The Judge
12-03-2007, 11:28 AM
Seems that unlike voters here the people (at least more then 50%) of people Venezuela know who they are dealing with a politican, a good one, but a politican non-the-less.

Here we still by into the non-sense, here over 51% voted for George Bush. They believed the retoric but he won "fair and square."

WAIT hold the press 51% didn't vote for him he lost the vote and there were allegations of widespread denial of peoples right to vote and illegal voter roll purges, and a Supreme Court that believes in 'States Rights" just not today jumping in not once but twice which is 100% of the time in this case talk about making history... NEVER MIND about the fair and square part.

chickenhead
12-03-2007, 11:43 AM
I don't really care about oooogo, I think the US is too caught up in controlling the western hemisphere with an iron fist. Venezuala should be able to do whatever they want. Doesn't mean we can't criticize them, tho. Hopefully they don't get too crazy.

Read a piece about North Korea over the weekend, talk about a sad story. It's gonna be a hard rain that falls if they ever figure out the level they've been duped. Anytime a group moves towards that state of existence, it probably deserves some criticism. Is Venezuela doing that? Probably not, but seems to me some of these reforms, and some changes they've already made, begin to open the door.

The Judge
12-03-2007, 12:00 PM
I like your post they straight to the point and usually correct in my eyes. Plus I can copy your spellng of words that I would never bother to lookup.

Just as you are critizing I am likewise critizing.

kenwoodallpromos
12-03-2007, 12:24 PM
1 way you can tell a low-life leader is their refusal to give up power after their time is expired. Are you listening Bill?

The Judge
12-03-2007, 12:34 PM
He does eveything legal and he is a low life, however Bush is not, I must assume.

I tried to show the big picture of what was done right. The people love him but they love the idea behind their Constititon more. Term limits sound a lot like our Constition wouldn't be surprised if there were some more similarities.

Unlike here "The Banana Republics" seem to follow theirs a little better.

Chickenhead you knew there was going to be a battle I just got in a early shot the rest of the gunfire will be along shortly.

46zilzal
12-03-2007, 02:19 PM
It was defeated.


Good

Tom
12-03-2007, 04:16 PM
What't he over/under on how long before he does it anyway?
He has already said he is not finished.

JustRalph
12-03-2007, 06:46 PM
According to exit polls, it passed.

Must have been the same pollsters that said Kerry won! :lol:

Steve 'StatMan'
12-03-2007, 06:54 PM
Given Chavez's goons and the violence, who would want to say they didn't vote the way El Presidente wanted them to?

Or, maybe those that voted agaiinst just managed to avoid or ingore the polsters.

Yes, I am concerned about him doing it anyway. The news reports of his quotes indicate otherwise, but we'll see. 51% is a strong indicator that a lot of people would be unhappy that if it passed. 49% supporters indicates there are a lot of people still wanting the changes, and would be a large mass to recon with, given the usual and frequent political upheavals in the lands south of our boarders and shores.

skate
12-03-2007, 07:07 PM
yep, too early to tell.


but if you like the idea of pushing around the big oil, then he's your man.


i've always liked Fidel and i cant see a good reason for the discontinuous discredit with either of these guys. too early, time will tell on Chaves.

hcap
12-03-2007, 07:25 PM
discontinuous discredit with either of these guys. too early, time will tell on Chaves.
A double negative?
A double entendre?

A double doobie smoked doubly quick?

http://www.frontiernet.net/~joe14580/big%20doobie%20joint.jpg

bigmack
12-03-2007, 07:42 PM
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/21.gif

Tom
12-03-2007, 10:33 PM
Must have been the same pollsters that said Kerry won! :lol:


:lol::lol::lol:

PaceAdvantage
12-04-2007, 01:36 AM
As I read this thread, I am reminded of the ol' saying "Don't be so open-minded that your brain eventually falls out."

Gibbon
12-04-2007, 02:05 AM
Chavez wants to use his countries wealth to help the poor in his country. What is his biggest "crime"...... This may be the most naive statement ever written on any BBS. Chavez is closing govt. agencies to centralize his personal power base. He is amassing personal power to help who? Dictators help themselves to a country’s bounty. Once all encompassing power is bestowed by a gullible populace, freedom is lost forever. Tyranny is sure to follow as is dictated by history.





__________________________
"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

"Lust of power burns more fiercely than all the passions combined."

The Judge
12-04-2007, 02:58 AM
He is trying to centralize power if its bad in Venezuela for a politican to try and grab as much power as they can is it bad to do the same thing is the United States?

Do they have elections in Saudi Arabia ? We seems to like them alot. Can you vote a Prince out of office or will they just turn around and buy the building? I'm naive... wake up and smell the coffee!

You don't like Hugo because he is independent and for some reason that upsets people here. You have no other reason its O.K you can dislike whoever you want to you need a reason, you don't have a reason do you? Let it go, relax.

Oh! On the coffee better check what country its from, better check that gas also don't want to help a dictator... UNLESS its one of ours! Saudi oil is fine Venezuelian oil is bad ,until the next election, then if its no Hugo then it will be good again.

rastajenk
12-04-2007, 08:24 AM
What you call an independent politician, others might call a crime family Don. Hugo has more in common with Mafia thugs than benevolent liberators.If the Saudis are so bad (and they are), why should we be obligated to sit back and let another cancerous growth on the energy biz develop? Some people are always moaning about the lack of international respect for the US; what kind of respect is due a nation that watches an egomaniacal (big-oil) strongman promote regional instability (and be responsible for all the suffering and misery that follows) just for the fun of it? It's the oldest game in the political book: exploit the most exploitable of the masses for personal power and aggrandizement. There's nothing to celebrate there.

Tom
12-04-2007, 08:56 AM
Very well put.

The Judge
12-04-2007, 11:00 AM
Personal Power, Aggrandizment, Mafia Don, Strongman, Exploit the Masses, Personal Power anything else. Then you turn -around and question the worlds stupidity in not representing the U.S. I wonder why.

The Venezuelian people ELECTED this man why is it that they are all so dumb and live in this country and people that have never left IDAHO know so much more them them? Did you read that he was all these bad things? Yeah thats it someone told you he was bad. You do know that the news you get has been slanted and filtered don't you.

Still my question remains why is it that Hugo got a whole country to electing him. Why isn't that a good thing.

Oh, and while we are on the topic of Strongmen and Mafia Dons maybe we should dig-up "ALLENDE" a man that the CHILEAN people elected and the U.S had killed way across the world, ask him who he thinks is an "Unstablizing and a Cancerous Growth " in the region.

Can't ask him he's dead. I know Tom "aahhh for the good ole days".

Show Me the Wire
12-04-2007, 11:19 AM
Personal Power, Aggrandizment, Mafia Don, Strongman, Exploit the Masses, Personal Power anything else. Then you turn -around and question the worlds stupidity in not representing the U.S. I wonder why.

The Venezuelian people ELECTED this man why is it that they are all so dumb and live in this country and people that have never left IDAHO know so much more them them? Did you read that he was all these bad things? Yeah thats it someone told you he was bad. You do know that the news you get has been slanted and filtered don't you.

Still my question remains why is it that Hugo got a whole country to electing him. Why isn't that a good thing.

Oh, and while we are on the topic of Strongmen and Mafia Dons maybe we should dig-up "ALLENDE" a man that the CHILEAN people elected and the U.S had killed way across the world, ask him who he thinks is an "Unstablizing and a Cancerous Growth " in the region.

Can't ask him he's dead. I know Tom "aahhh for the good ole days".

Countries make mistakes, in electing certain officials, ask zilly, hcap, sec and ljb. Applying your logic the same could be said about President Bush; Why isn't it a good thing if the he got the whole country to elect him?

Tom
12-04-2007, 11:55 AM
:lol::lol::lol:

The Judge
12-04-2007, 12:09 PM
I tried to edit but took too long.

Yes, George Bush was elected TWICE and both times with scanal attached . He then sought and got help from a stacked Supreme Court . Its seems that WE are becoming more like the "Banana Republics" and they are becoming more like the United States in the old days. Doesn't this borther you! What happened to the old days , why are there allegations by leading scholars, conservative retired judges and consevative lawyers who wrote books on how the election process was high-jacked. Something was very wrong.


Look at the end of the day we are all in this together. I have no where else to go my boat is docked at State Side. To the politican its always the short term we are horseplayers we know the the longterm is more important. All we need do is not go broke in the short term.

In the short term it may work to go aroung bulling other folks but in the long term it will hurt the UNITED STATES, maybe not us but certainly the next generation. The world is catching-up and in some cases passing us.

The world loves the people of the United States we could have the world eating out our hands and not fire a bullet. Our music, our movies, television, computers, way of dress, what second language must you speak sometimes to get a job in their own country "ENGLISH",what langauage do Internatonl Airline Pilots use? There are RAP GROUPS in Islamic countries,there are steets gangs in other counties named after street gangs from this about country.

You get my point, there are must more effective and moral ways to go about getting what. Other counties copy us what more could you ask. Its being handed to us and we let some greedy Politicans who will fade from the scene as soon as they threw with us, go for the short-term.

The world loves us but hate how we let our leader act in our name. This has to stop.

Gibbon
12-04-2007, 04:42 PM
The Venezuelian people ELECTED this man.... Perhaps the collective will of Venezuela is smarter than Cuba.

President Hugo Chavez's unprecedented defeat in a referendum is a wake-up call....Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120401323.html) Tuesday, December 4, 2007; 3:50 PM

ArlJim78
12-04-2007, 06:38 PM
I tried to edit but took too long.

Yes, George Bush was elected TWICE and both times with scanal attached
Not true. What scandal? No amount of recounting in Florida was going to put Gore in the White House. The Supreme Court stepped in to end the charade that was going on, basically Gore was trying to litigate his way into the office.

The Judge
12-04-2007, 07:23 PM
The State Supreme Court had said let the re-count prodceed and the recount was in progress it was stopped .Its in Florida ,its Florida's Court and Florida's Law. What happened to States rights ? Why take this case. This was States rights all the way thats why I said it was a "stacked court".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Bugliosi

Tom
12-04-2007, 09:48 PM
Ah, the lawyer speaks.

Did you even read the SC decision?

PaceAdvantage
12-05-2007, 03:06 AM
The State Supreme Court had said let the re-count prodceed and the recount was in progress it was stopped .Its in Florida ,its Florida's Court and Florida's Law. What happened to States rights ? Why take this case. This was States rights all the way thats why I said it was a "stacked court".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_BugliosiPlease ,stop the madness. A CONSORTIUM of newspapers (including the New York Times) went in and COUNTED all the votes EVERYONE CLAIMS did not GET COUNTED, and they reported that Bush STILL WOULD HAVE WON. So please, stop with the lies.

NYT Article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/12VOTE.html?ex=1197003600&en=9ee2f61825e25023&ei=5070

rastajenk
12-05-2007, 06:04 AM
And the scent of scandal in 2004 in Ohio was mythmaking from the very start. There was never a serious claim of foul that had any weight or gravitas; it was all sour grapes. I am an election official in Ohio; I became one after the Florida debacle. So I'm no expert, but I'm a lot closer to the situation than most, and I know that all of the various and widespread allegations were sniffed out and disproved with a minimum of research.

There are Democrats and Republicans on every county board of elections. For Republicans to have stolen an election would prove that the state's Dems are either too stupid or too lazy or both to have a say in anything. All of the more hotly contested areas are strongly Democratic. First glance logic would suggest not that the Republicans had cheated, but that the Dems didn't cheat quite enough, which was the basis for the whole Florida mess as well.

The Judge
12-05-2007, 07:32 AM
I'm an American I don't want a CONSORTIUM of NEWS ORGANIZATIONS telling me "THEY" counted the votes and LUCKY YOU the right one WON.

From the article.

"Mr. Bush would have kept his lead, according to the ballot review conducted for a consortium of news organizations." Eariler in the article it said.

"A close examination of the ballots found that Mr. Bush would have retained a slender margin over Mr. Gore if the Florida court's order to recount more than 43,000 ballots had not been reversed by the United States Supreme Court. "

This all happened "after" the issue was already decided. They are trying to get you to beleive that none of this is really important because luckly it turned out right. It really makes no difference that a order from the highest court in Florida told Florida election officials to recount the ballots of the citizens of Florida. This is in keeping with the Constitution of Florida.

Maybe somewhere in the United States Supreme Courts decision it should have said a don't worry "a consortium of NEWS ORGANIZATIONS" will be along shorty and straighten this all out for you.

skate
12-05-2007, 05:26 PM
Maybe somewhere in the United States Supreme Courts decision it should have said a don't worry "a consortium of NEWS ORGANIZATIONS" will be along shorty and straighten this all out for you.

there you go your Honor.

you got the answer, all by yourself.

issue went on and on and on.... sooner or later, someone had to step in...


the democratic party was running the election committee, and lost control.

alas, the SC (also Dem leaning) voted, on judgement, and it turns out THEY were right.

The Judge
12-05-2007, 07:41 PM
Thanks for the heat when get some light give us another post. It was going on and on, so what, we aren't talking abot dog cather here. It took to long for who ,the United States Supreme Court by a vote of 5-4. Thats just great.