View Full Version : Rove does a ReWrite.
Karl Rove says that Congress forced Bush into invading Iraq, even though Bush didn't want to. Ok which of youse guys are gonna back up your man Karl?
1984 anyone?
The book's hero, Winston Smith, works in the Ministry of Truth rewriting and falsifying history. The Ministry writes people out of history -- they go "down the memory hole" as though they never existed. The Ministry also creates people as historical figures who never existed.
1- As though Bush did not lobby non-stop for passage of the Iraq war resolution.
2-As though he had not prevaricated during the State of the Union address.
3-As though the administration had not played up fake documents.
4-As though the Bushies never relied on fibs told by Curveball and the OSP.
5-As though the Downing Street memo were imaginary.
6-As though Saddam had not allowed the weapons inspectors complete freedom.
7-As though Bush had not falsely stated that the inspections were being impeded.
http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2007/11/21/1/a-conversation-with-karl-rove
Secretariat
11-28-2007, 11:19 AM
Is this a joke? You gotta be kidding me.
46zilzal
11-28-2007, 11:25 AM
They all live in a dream world, why is the golden boy any different??
1984 delayed a few years.
Who would have imagined a pudgy, balding BIG BROTHER?
Since he theoretically is no longer connected with the administration, they send him out to see just how gullible the die hard 25% per centers really are.
Lefty? Tom? Has faux joined in yet?
How'bout you guys? Mouth breathing yet?
JustMissed
11-28-2007, 11:32 AM
What ever happend to Scott Ritter, the weapons inspector?
JM
Was painted as part of the Emmanuel Goldstein gang by the bushies. Smeared and swift boated during the lead up to the war.
At the moment trying to head off a confrontation with Iran.
Maybe we'll listen to him this time around.
Oh yeah Mohamed ElBaradei too
46zilzal
11-28-2007, 12:00 PM
Discussion with Scott Ritter at pbs.org.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/unscom/interviews/ritter.html
JustMissed
11-28-2007, 12:04 PM
Don't you find it unusual with oil at $100 a barrel, there is never any mention by the main stream media or Faux news for that matter regarding:
1. The voiding of the Lukoil deal for development of the West Qurna oil field in Southern Iraq. This field has reportedly 11 billon barrels of oil-more than all the known reserves of Exxon Mobil-and never a mention of a possible connection with Bush, Chenny and the war.
2. The proposed Caspian Sea pipeline through Afganistan for which the Taliban were in Houston, Texas in 1998 and signed contracts at the Enron headquarters.
You will never hear any of this mentioned by Faux or Charlie Gibson.
Damn shame.
JM
This part of what Rove said
"[O]ne of the untold stories about the war is why did the United States Congress, the United States Senate, vote on the war resolution in the fall of 2002...This administration was opposed to it...Because we didn`t think it belonged within the confines of the election. There was an election coming up within a matter of weeks. We thought it made it too political. We wanted it outside the confines of it. It seemed to make things move too fast. There were things that needed to be done to bring along allies and potential allies abroad, and yet...There was a vote, and I`m -- I`m...But it happened. We don`t determine when the Congress votes on things. The Congress does...It would have been better for the country had we been able to resolve that issue after the election -- maybe before the new Congress came in -- whatever. But instead -- and the story will be told later -- we didn`t."
46zilzal
11-28-2007, 01:38 PM
from amazon.com view of Bush's Brain (an oxymoron) in regards to Rowe:"Moore and Slater look deeply into Rove's past to offer copious evidence of his political genius, his tenacity, and his remarkable success rate in getting his clients elected. The facts also portray Rove as unethical, vindictive, and a chronic abuser of power."
from amazon.com view of Bush's Brain (an oxymoron) in regards to Rowe:"Moore and Slater look deeply into Rove's past to offer copious evidence of his political genius, his tenacity, and his remarkable success rate in getting his clients elected. The facts also portray Rove as unethical, vindictive, and a chronic abuser of power."
When did he become a democrat?????
Hcap,
Sad news. It looks like Tom may have taken you off his iggy list. At least he is replying to your thread. Sorry to see this, perhaps we can call him on his two faced activities. He must be a student of Rove. :lol:
delayjf
11-28-2007, 03:54 PM
Moore and Slater look deeply into Rove's past to offer copious evidence of his political genius, his tenacity, and his remarkable success rate in getting his clients elected. The facts also portray Rove as unethical, vindictive, and a chronic abuser of power."
They could always ask Hillary who could then check the box of Classified FBI files on the floor outside he office door. Not that she would have any idea where those files came from. :cool:
skate
11-28-2007, 05:00 PM
Hcap,
Sad news. It looks like Tom may have taken you off his iggy list. At least he is replying to your thread. Sorry to see this, perhaps we can call him on his two faced activities. He must be a student of Rove. :lol:
hicupps was on his/her knees :p
skate
11-28-2007, 05:04 PM
This part of what Rove said
"[O]ne of the untold stories about the war
you mean the Civil War.
what happened?
skate
11-28-2007, 05:06 PM
from amazon.com view of Bush's Brain (an oxymoron) in regards to Rowe:"Moore and Slater look deeply into Rove's past to offer copious evidence of his political genius, his tenacity, and his remarkable success rate in getting his clients elected. The facts also portray Rove as unethical, vindictive, and a chronic abuser of power."
Mumbo Jumbo and Zeroooo:cool:
delayjf
11-28-2007, 05:06 PM
"[O]ne of the untold stories about the war is why did the United States Congress, the United States Senate, vote on the war resolution in the fall of 2002...This administration was opposed to it...Because we didn`t think it belonged within the confines of the election. There was an election coming up within a matter of weeks. We thought it made it too political. We wanted it outside the confines of it. It seemed to make things move too fast. There were things that needed to be done to bring along allies and potential allies abroad, and yet...There was a vote, and I`m -- I`m...But it happened. We don`t determine when the Congress votes on things. The Congress does...It would have been better for the country had we been able to resolve that issue after the election -- maybe before the new Congress came in -- whatever. But instead -- and the story will be told later -- we didn`t."
As I read this, I'm understanding that the administration wanted to vote on the war after the election. Not that the administration disagreed with military action in Iraq, only with the timing of the vote authorizing military action in Iraq.
skate
11-28-2007, 05:20 PM
ya these guys are just pissed that UncleGeorge Won The Civil War.
and now we're suppose to listen to more Mumbo Jumbo
They could always ask Hillary who could then check the box of Classified FBI files on the floor outside he office door. Not that she would have any idea where those files came from. :cool:
A CLINDIDITTOO of the female persuasion. :jump:
hicupps was on his/her knees :pHow goes the Mars trip.? Ya know the one about Saddammy
A snapshot from home. Seems to explain your inability to post in English. And the broom possibly explains your cognitive handicap. Let me guess, you stuck it in the wrong end? Skate you can remedy that in a jiff!
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/ATA/21501BP~Marvin-The-Martian-Posters.jpg
Or is that how you dress up saturday mornings to watch the cartoons?
As I read this, I'm understanding that the administration wanted to vote on the war after the election. Not that the administration disagreed with military action in Iraq, only with the timing of the vote authorizing military action in Iraq.
see how this one reads?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020913.html
At least I am glad to see that Rove and I guess Bush(maybe) do see that like I have been saying they went in too quickly, but this is a bizzaro way out of that problem.
Almost schizzooo!
:ThmbDown:
Karl Rove: [T]he administration was opposed to voting on it in the fall of 2002.
Charlie Rose: Because?
Rove: Because we didn’t think it belonged in the confines of the election. We thought it made it too political. We wanted it outside the confines of the election. It seemed it make things move too fast. There were things that needed to be done to bring along allies and potential allies abroad and yet-- ...
Rose: [Y]our argument is you would have had maybe more inspections. You would have been able to build a broader coalition. You could have done a whole lot other things if you didn’t have to have a vote, right?
Rove: Right, right, exactly.
On the other hand.....
September 19, 2002:
President Bush to Send Iraq Resolution to Congress Today
THE PRESIDENT: I am sending suggested language for a resolution. I want -- I've asked for Congress' support to enable the administration to keep the peace. And we look forward to a good, constructive debate in Congress. I appreciate the fact that the leadership recognizes we've got to move before the elections.
And.......
September 24, 2002:
President Urges Congress to Pass Iraq Resolution Promptly
THE PRESIDENT: Thanks for coming. We just had a very productive Cabinet meeting. We realize there's little time left in---before the Senate and the House goes home, but we're optimistic a lot can get done before now and then. Congress must act now to pass a resolution which will hold Saddam Hussein to account for a decade of defiance.
What a crock.
Secretariat
11-29-2007, 09:58 AM
Good post Hcap. This is the heighth of revisionist history. Rove will keep this up hoping that people are stupid enoguh to beleive it.
Ya think maybe pudgy could have looked back at the things actually said by the administration AT THE TIME.
"Those who control the past controls the present"
-----unless they are just plain stupid and mostly out of work.
Sec, all this info is on Daily Kos. You know that commie pinko lying web site.
For some reason not on Drudge :lol:
PaceAdvantage
11-29-2007, 10:44 AM
I thought Rove was supposed to be in jail by now? Didn't you guys promise me (multiple times) a perp walk? How is he doing a ReWrite in handcuffs? :lol:
He is longer bushs' brain. Why did he leave?
Had to spend more time with the family eh?? :lol:
His status now changes very little. Other than getting away easier with the rewrite. Just imagine if he is doing this now, how many times he rewrote the facts during his tenure. More will come out in the 2009 dem administration.
Speaking of rewrites - did anyone catch the big lie good ole Billy-Bob-Boy got caught in by CNN?
He told a group this week that he was opposed to the war in IRaq from the very begining....and then CNN played the video of him saying, to the effect of, "I can't fault the president for making a pre-emtive strike on this guy thinking he had stores of chemical and biological weapons. That is what Brittish intelligence says, our intelligence agrees, and everyone believes it. That is what I always believed."
delayjf
11-29-2007, 11:22 AM
We're talking about the timing of the vote, not the outcome - and you guys are spinning this into - Bush now claims that "Congress made me do it". Nice try, but you're going to have to do better than that. Why not post pictures of the yacht the President has purchased with his billions in oil profits.
You are in denial big time. No one in the adminisration wanted to wait.
Rove: Because we didn’t think it belonged in the confines of the election. We thought it made it too political. We wanted it outside the confines of the election. It seemed it make things move too fast. There were things that needed to be done to bring along allies and potential allies abroad and yet-
Rose: [Y]our argument is you would have had maybe more inspections. You would have been able to build a broader coalition. You could have done a whole lot other things if you didn’t have to have a vote, right?
Rove: Right, right, exactly.
Wait for more inspections is what I have been saying all along. Yes if they had waited they would have found nothing of any real threat.
Bushs' Yacht??
After catching up to Nixon in unpopularity, I'm afraid all he has got left are the paddles..
http://www.floridadude.com/ShitCreekPaddleStore.jpg
lsbets
11-29-2007, 12:53 PM
Hcap, I think you missed delays point. In your original post, you state that Rove said Congress forced the President to go to war. Then every quote you showed dealt with the timing of the vote. Whether or not Rove was full of shit with his quote is beside the point - it has nothing to do with your original statement.
Why are you guys still so obsessed with Rove anyway? He's about as irrelevant as possible now. He's gone, be happy, smile for once. Life is too short to be so worked up over a bunch of politicians all the time.
Ls, yes, my very first comment wasKarl Rove says that Congress forced Bush into invading Iraq, even though Bush didn't want to. Ok which of youse guys are gonna back up your man Karl?The link to original Charlie Rose interview was included for anyone to investigate.
I admit it was exaggerated in that I should have said..... Rove claimed Congress forced Bush into invading Iraq sooner than he really wanted. Which is just as absurd. In post #9 I went into more detail. Post # 22 was posted after I found a partial transcript. So yeah a bit of hyperbole in my first sentence, but the time frame dispute is pure nonsense. Nobody hastened bushs' rush to war other than Rove and the bushies. And that what it is about ultimately. Congress was led. Did not lead, regardless of Roves' lies.
And why do I care about Rove now? Simple, goes to character. When rove was in the middle of things he bullshitted just as this story shows. Liars are liars are liars
delayjf
11-29-2007, 05:10 PM
Wait for more inspections is what I have been saying all along. Yes if they had waited they would have found nothing of any real threat.
Not so, Saddam admitted he was out to deceive everybody about WMD, they just would have been lead around by the nose, just like before.
Not so, Saddam admitted he was out to deceive everybody about WMD, they just would have been lead around by the nose, just like before.So Rove is Deffinitely lying here...
Rose: [Y]our argument is you would have had maybe more inspections. You would have been able to build a broader coalition. You could have done a whole lot other things if you didn’t have to have a vote, right?
Rove: Right, right, exactly.You know that it turns out Colin Powell was wrong in his presentation to the UN. All statements leading up to the war and just after the war by administration officials regarding WMDs were also wrong.
Turns out as far as WMDs are concerned, Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, Mohamed El Baradei and all the 10,000,000 hippies who filled the worlds' streets, and yes even madman Saddam were right about no WMDs. Instead of the inspectors being jerked around by Saddam, they were doing an admirable job, and the jerking around was by the warhawks.
Suprisingly they still jerk loudly.
delayjf
11-29-2007, 07:24 PM
So Rove is Deffinitely lying here...
No, his remarks with regards to WMDs reflect the Administration's pre-invasion mind set. That's what they thought in the fall of 02.
Hans Blix and the rest of the inspection teams could only confirm that they didn't find any WMDs - not that they did not exist. Keep in mind Saddam was purposefully giving the impression to the inspection teams that he had something to hide - he has freely admitted that. There was other evidence and intel to back up the theory that he did possess WMD's.
If the intel was wrong that's one thing, but that doesn't make it a lie.
I've always said that the fact that there were no great stockpiles of WMD's found (there were some WMDs found and used against US troops) at least proves that The White House was sincere in their beliefs that they existed. After all, would President Bush, the leader of the Illuminati, the instigator of 9/11, go to all the trouble to fire cruise missiles into the Pentagon, and invade a country so he could pocket billions - don't you think they would at least plant some kind of nuclear devise to prop up the war's popularity?? I mean what the hell; why not unleash some nerve agent on US troops. So what if he kills tens of thousands - he was willing to kill that many attacking the TT and the Pentagon. Had we discovered weapons grade uranium in Iraq, what do you think his approval rating would be today?
If the intel was wrong that's one thing, but that doesn't make it a lie.
We did get them out of Lybia - no small thing. A genuine terrorist history.
skate
11-30-2007, 03:22 PM
why do we(you) have to keep reminding hiccups of the fine points on this issue?
pitiable is pitiable is pitiable...hiccups, you are quite reach, out there in Left field.
you keep posting your pointless points, in the hope that others will give up on your total BS.
on and on and on...nadda, zilch
No, his remarks with regards to WMDs reflect the Administration's pre-invasion mind set. That's what they thought in the fall of 02Really!! Are you saying the mind set of the administration was to wait for the inspections to run their course? You got to be kidding. Hardly
Hans Blix and the rest of the inspection teams could only confirm that they didn't find any WMDs - not that they did not exist. Keep in mind Saddam was purposefully giving the impression to the inspection teams that he had something to hide - he has freely admitted that. There was other evidence and intel to back up the theory that he did possess WMD's.They did not find the massive amounts of WMDs Powell claimed. The US, CIA, Brit Intelligence were giving the UN inspectors sites to surprise visit. Not one site had panned out. You can't prove a negative, but youse guys came up way short trying to prove a positive when the inspectors were on the ground lookingIf the intel was wrong that's one thing, but that doesn't make it a lie.No, other evidence points to purposeful exxageration to scare us into warI've always said that the fact that there were no great stockpiles of WMD's found (there were some WMDs found and used against US troops) at least proves that The White House was sincere in their beliefs that they existed. All of the minuscule quantities of WMDs were left over from the first gulf war and much was accounted for and cataloged by the UN. No surprises. In fact the major surprise for the hawks, was that if there were massive stockpiles as claimed-why weren't they used?
After all, would President Bush, the leader of the Illuminati, the instigator of 9/11, go to all the trouble to fire cruise missiles into the Pentagon, and invade a country so he could pocket billions - don't you think they would at least plant some kind of nuclear devise to prop up the war's popularity?? I mean what the hell; why not unleash some nerve agent on US troops. So what if he kills tens of thousands - he was willing to kill that many attacking the TT and the Pentagon. Had we discovered weapons grade uranium in Iraq, what do you think his approval rating would be today?I don't think they could pull off a massive conspiracy to improve his popularity. We would have found Cheneys' shotgun burried under the uranium. Better off spinning non-provable theories about the WMDs being shipped to Syria :lol:
If you are trying to get me to admit that well maybe they were wrong "but aw shucks fellas at least they had good intentions"Please try again after the 2008 elections. Maybe the tooth fairy will bring us the Sterling Wondrous Democrats. Instead of another crop of politicians
delayjf
11-30-2007, 08:05 PM
Really!! Are you saying the mind set of the administration was to wait for the inspections to run their course? You got to be kidding. Hardly
Again, were talking about the administrations mindset in the fall of 02, UN inspections were still ongoing, but the question was not specific to just allowing the inspectors to finish, the question was broad and also mentioned working to build a broader alliance, that is what Rove specifically addressed.
They did not find the massive amounts of WMDs Powell claimed.
But there were a lot of items missing and unaccounted for and Iraq was still attempting to disrupt the UN inspectors.
No, other evidence points to purposeful exxageration to scare us into war
After 9/11 President Bush decided not to take a chance.
All of the minuscule quantities of WMDs were left over from the first gulf war and much was accounted for and cataloged by the UN. No surprises.
They were also found weapons and equipment that was missing and unaccounted for.
I don't think they could pull off a massive conspiracy to improve his popularity
In your eyes, no. But seriously, you don’t think The Illuminati could pull this off? They started WWI, WWII, Vietnam, assassinated 3 presidents, almost got Reagan. They mastermind the 9/11 attacks. Planning covert cruise missle attacks on the US would be a lot harder than planting uranium in Iraq.
Better off spinning non-provable theories about the WMDs being shipped to Syria.
Pot calling the Kettle black. :D
Rove has been disavowed....
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/11/30/andrew-card-throws-carl-rove-under-the-bus-on-morning-joe/
Andrew Card Throws Karl Rove Under The Bus On Morning Joe
"Joe asks Card about Karl Rove’s ridiculous claim that the Democrats pushed the White House into voting on the resolution to use force in Iraq during a recent interview with Charlie Rose, and his answer took everyone by surprise, bringing big laughs from the MJ crew…and me. Even Card couldn’t keep a straight face.
Scarborough: “We have to start with something that we all were talking about a couple days ago where Karl Rove went on Charlie Rose and he blamed the Democrats for pushing him and the president into war. Is that how it worked?”
Card: ” Uh…..no. [laughter] that is not the way it worked. [snip]
“Karl is very smart, sometimes his brain gets ahead of his mouth - and sometimes his mouth gets ahead of his brain.”
Wow. I never had the chance to vote for Mr. Rove.
You guys are talking as if he was the leader of the Free World. I remember a number of posts about VP Cheney being behind everything President Bush did and said. Is that still true or do you now have a new target?
I was just wondering because it seems pretty shallow to always point a finger at anyone that goes public with any lame statement. It's been done from both sides and there always seems to be a book deal waiting around the corner.
I find is amusing that the left has so little favorable to post about thier own candidates that they continue to post whines and cartoons.
Says a lot for thier side! :lol::lol::lol:
The Judge
12-01-2007, 11:10 AM
Hcaps point was made and backed up by quotes from the Presidents own mouth, yet we move to the "fine" points. The facts remain unchanged Rove is trying to re-write history and Bush started a war based on lies and congress backed him up on it. There may have been about a total of 8 Senate and House members that voted ney. They wouldn't even vote on whether or not to go to "declare" war, what a bunch of cowards. http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2002/tst101402.htm.
While Rove is perfectly willing to draw "small" distinctions he ignores the elephant in the room. He lead this country to war based on lies! His last act in serving his country was to tell them a little white lie " I want to spend more time with my family" what a guy.
Secretariat
12-01-2007, 01:25 PM
Hcaps point was made and backed up by quotes from the Presidents own mouth, yet we move to the "fine" points. The facts remain unchanged Rove is trying to re-write history and Bush started a war based on lies and congress backed him up on it. There may have been about a total of 8 Senate and House members that voted ney. They wouldn't even vote on whether or not to go to "declare" war, what a bunch of cowards. http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2002/tst101402.htm.
While Rove is perfectly willing to draw "small" distinctions he ignores the elephant in the room. He lead this country to war based on lies! His last act in serving his country was to tell them a little white lie " I want to spend more time with my family" what a guy.
Very Good post. A couple corrections though.
The House Vote on the Iraq War Resolution was:
For it - 214 Repubs, 42 Dems
Agaisnt it - 3 Repubs, 149 Dems
In other words - 98% for it, 2% against for Repubs
In other words - 22% for it, 77% against for Dems
In the Senate Resolution,
For it - 49 Repubs, 28 Dems
Agaisnt it - 1 Repubs, 21 Dems, 1 Independent
In other words - 98% for it, 2% against for Repubs
In other words - 57% for it, 43% against for Dems
There were more than eight people who voted nay. In total 170 Dems voted against it compared to 4 Republicans.
In lieu of Rover;s remarks you wonder how the man can keep a straight face and say what he does.
The Judge
12-01-2007, 03:45 PM
http://usliberals.about.com/od/liberalleadership/a/IraqNayVote.htm. the porblem is there were so many votes on here is one where only Congress woman Barbara Lee voted ney.http://www.daveyd.com/barbaraleevotepolitics.htrmesolutionshttp:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_St ates_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq
The Judge
12-01-2007, 04:06 PM
Try these sites.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Lee.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_St ates_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraqand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_St ates_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq
This history re-writting is terrible.
Why, just this week Billy-bob-boy tried to say he was against the war from the beginging.....until they played the video of him saying otherwise.
Rove is hardy the only one........but he did not do a perp walk - Clinton DID....to the point of impeachment.
The Judge
12-01-2007, 04:45 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Lee and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Te rrorists I can no longer locate the article or the resolution that the 8 voted against but it was around 8 they were named.
This history re-writting is terrible.
Why, just this week Billy-bob-boy tried to say he was against the war from the beginging.....until they played the video of him saying otherwise.
Rove is hardy the only one........but he did not do a perp walk - Clinton DID....to the point of impeachment.
A CLINTODIDITTOO again
A CLINTODIDITTOO again
A CLINTODIDITTOO again
Clinton didn't Invade Iraq and try to shift the blame.
Come on guys you miss the scoundrel lying about consensual sex
VS the incompetant Churchill wannabe lying about war.
hcap,
why would they miss the scoundrel lying about sex ? they have Rudy.
Clinton didn't Invade Iraq and try to shift the blame.
You are correct, the only thing Clinton invaded was an intern. If he had been doing his job, President Bush may not have had to invade Iraq.
The specter of Clinton is why the dems keep wanting BUSH to pull out early, too.
From Talking Points Memo..
Former White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer concluded, "I think Karl in this instance just has his facts wrong."
Former Bush counselor Dan Bartlett added, "This is the first time I've ever heard Karl say that."
delayjf
12-03-2007, 01:18 PM
Hcaps point was made and backed up by quotes from the Presidents own mouth,
Please provide the quote where President Bush states that Congress forced him into invading Iraq.
The only point he has made is to show his inability comprehend the content of a conversation due to his incapacitating blind anti-American ideology. If those on the left want to spin Rove’s comments to mean that Bush is now blaming the war on Congress, then be my guest. :lol:
http://www.bartcop.com/rove-re-history.gif
Please provide the quote where President Bush states that Congress forced him into invading Iraq.
The only point he has made is to show his inability comprehend the content of a conversation due to his incapacitating blind anti-American ideology. If those on the left want to spin Rove’s comments to mean that Bush is now blaming the war on Congress, then be my guest. :lol:
Well I saw him on TV yesterday blaming it on the intelligence community. Typical neocon/republican buck passing, fer shure.
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