RastaJenk, this is how the BCS works..

[harnesslover]

This is why 'being in love' with the strength of schedule is important in understanding how the BCS works. Please stop whining about you thinking Ohio State deserves to be in the BCS Champ game and take a moment to understand why they aren't. Gee, could it be SOS??? :lol: :lol:





(From espn.com)



How is the BCS calculated? The BCS formula is comprised by 5 components. The average ranking in the AP and ESPN coach's poll, an average ranking of the best six of seven compter polls, the number of losses, a strength of schedule (SOS) factor, and a quality wins (QW) factor.

Quality Wins
QW points are awarded for victories over teams ranked in the top ten of BCS poll. A victory over the top ranked team is worth 1 point, 0.9 points for the #2 team, etc. down to 0.1 point for a win over the tenth ranked team.

[JustRalph]

If Ohio State backs into the title game..............they will go nuts in Columbus.............and if they play WV it will be incredible.......half of columbus is from West virginia :lol:

[harnesslover]

If Ohio State backs into the title game..............they will go nuts in Columbus.............and if they play WV it will be incredible.......half of columbus is from West virginia :lol:

Yeah, just what we need, another championship game where Ohio State gets bent over.

[rastajenk]

Thanks for the condescending lesson, but that's not what I've been arguing about for two weeks or more. If you want to defend the BCS system, have at it.

[JustRalph]

Yeah, just what we need, another championship game where Ohio State gets bent over.

Well, let's see. The football team could be in the title game for the 3rd time in five years. The basketball team made it to the final game in the NCAA last year. Both times beaten by Florida.

The Cavs made it to the NBA finals.............but lost. The Indian's made it to round two of the playoffs. One game from the World Series. As one of my acquaintances said "Ohio be Representing"

As bad off as the state is economically maybe the GM's and Coaches of these teams should be running the State Government.........?

[harnesslover]

Thanks for the condescending lesson, but that's not what I've been arguing about for two weeks or more. If you want to defend the BCS system, have at it.

I was never defending it, I was explaining WHY the teams were ahead of OSU.. Remember, the ones you were so miffed about?

Under the current BCS system, this is WHY they are ahead.

I am not a big proponent of the BCS system as it is, but I agree with some factors involved in it. I think strength of schedule is a huge part.

I am a little perplexed as to why you don't feel strength of schedule is a very important factor in ranking these teams..

[ghostyapper]

Yeah, just what we need, another championship game where Ohio State gets bent over.

Well if you think West Virginia would dominate OSU, then rasta is correct when he says you don't watch games, just look at polls.

But even looking at polls would not conclude that West Virginai would dominate OSU. But I guess you just like to be different and stir s.hit up, theres one in every crowd

[rastajenk]

West Virginia is ranked ahead of OSU in the AP and coaches' poll because they lost earlier in the year than did the Bucks. So when a highly-ranked team loses, they drop a few spots, and others move up. When #1 and #2 lost this weekend, #3 and #4 just automatically move up. There's no thought involved on the part of lazy pollsters, it just is. That's why a late-season loss costs more than an early season loss. It's not about how they lost or who they lost to.

I doubt if many, or any, pollsters sat down Sunday morning and said, "Hmmm...OSU and WV have nearly identical records; I can't really see much difference there. I guess I'll look up their strength of schedules and let that be the decision-maker for me....Well, I'll be darned, the Big East has tougher scheduling than the Big Ten. Surprising, but I'll go with it. The best team in a better conference must be better than the best team of a lesser conference, so I'll go with it. Deadlines, and other more important stuff on the agenda today."

That internal conversation probably never happened.

A truly discerning pollster would look at their total seasons and notice:

OSU completely shut down Michigan for their worst offensive output in 45 years. In the Big House, with a senior-laden team that came back specifically to beat OSU at least once.


OSU completely shut down Michigan State, the conference's leading offensive team, held them to three points.

OSU completely shut down Purdue on the road, a team that had been averaging 45 points per game. Boilers got a meaningless TD with ten seconds to go to avoid a shutout.

OSU was given a good game by Wisconsin, until 21 fourth quarter points turned it into a rout.

OSU went into Happy Valley and totally shut down Penn State; a late-game kickoff return made the score closer than it really was.

And, yes, OSU did get beat at home to an improved Illinois team. No excuses, they didn't play well enough to win. They didn't get blown out or embarrassed, they just didn't make the plays they needed when they needed them.

WV looked sloppy in losing to South Florida, with six turnovers.

WV looked sloppy in barely beating an underachieving Louisville, with four more turnovers. The defense couldn't stop UL in the second half; late-game heroics by the qb pulled it out for them.

WV looked averaged beating UC, with three more turnovers and a defense that gave up over 400 yards.

WV does have nice wins over Mississippi State and Maryland. And they ran up the score against over-matched opponents like Western Michigan, Marshall, UConn, and Syracuse, while the defense gave up over 20 points in three of those.

I just don't see how beating the Big East can compare with the meatgrinder that is a Big Ten schedule, and I don't care how computer wonks try to objectify it. And it's not like Ohio State came out of nowhere, like, for instance, Kansas, causing a pollster to ask, "How did they get here?" They've been at the top of the scene for years. The BCS uses a schedule strength component in an attempt to remain neutral or above it all, but it just dumbs down the process, it doesn't add to it. And it still relies on polls, which are the result of biases and laziness, which was my original point way back when. It's not just the Bucks vs. the Neers, that's just this week's version of our discussion. But now that we're getting down to the end of it, that's what matters to me.

If Missouri wins and OSU plays SC in the Rose Bowl, I will know which game will determine the best team in the country this year, and it won't be the championship game. :cool:

[OTM Al]

OSU-SC would be a great game. SC may be the best team out there now that they are healthy again. The polls are stupid and take nothing into consideration other than who lost most recently. Just consider the game this weekend. KU was #2 and Missou was #4. If they play each other, one has to lose. But if they really were #2 and #4 going in, then how could they be anything but (with the 2 positions potentially flip flopped) coming out when one HAS to lose? Beyond that, even though Misou had lost already, they are still in the title hunt, but KU is out with their one loss. Because they lost late instead of early. No other reason.

[rastajenk]

And who can forget last year, when #2 Michigan lost to #1 OSU? There were a couple weeks of handwringing, about whether a rematch was in order, because after all, if the #2's only loss was to the undisputed #1,especially a close loss on the road, doesn't that really mean #2 is still #2? Well, nobody really wanted to see that, so the pollsters took care of it by voting Florida up. It didn't have anything to do with strength of schedule; it had everything to do with the will of the voters. Apparently, this year the voters are tired of Ohio State, and unless their hand is forced by an upset this weekend, they are willing to shut them out. That's the way it works, but it doesn't make it right.

[JustRalph]

OSU laying off for two months is a problem that could negate any "big game" coming from them in any bowl.............I worry about that one.......as a Buckeye fan............

[harnesslover]

West Virginia is ranked ahead of OSU in the AP and coaches' poll because they lost earlier in the year than did the Bucks. So when a highly-ranked team loses, they drop a few spots, and others move up. When #1 and #2 lost this weekend, #3 and #4 just automatically move up. There's no thought involved on the part of lazy pollsters, it just is. That's why a late-season loss costs more than an early season loss. It's not about how they lost or who they lost to.

I doubt if many, or any, pollsters sat down Sunday morning and said, "Hmmm...OSU and WV have nearly identical records; I can't really see much difference there. I guess I'll look up their strength of schedules and let that be the decision-maker for me....Well, I'll be darned, the Big East has tougher scheduling than the Big Ten. Surprising, but I'll go with it. The best team in a better conference must be better than the best team of a lesser conference, so I'll go with it. Deadlines, and other more important stuff on the agenda today."

That internal conversation probably never happened.

A truly discerning pollster would look at their total seasons and notice:

OSU completely shut down Michigan for their worst offensive output in 45 years. In the Big House, with a senior-laden team that came back specifically to beat OSU at least once.


OSU completely shut down Michigan State, the conference's leading offensive team, held them to three points.


OSU completely shut down Purdue on the road, a team that had been averaging 45 points per game. Boilers got a meaningless TD with ten seconds to go to avoid a shutout.


OSU was given a good game by Wisconsin, until 21 fourth quarter points turned it into a rout.


OSU went into Happy Valley and totally shut down Penn State; a late-game kickoff return made the score closer than it really was.


And, yes, OSU did get beat at home to an improved Illinois team. No excuses, they didn't play well enough to win. They didn't get blown out or embarrassed, they just didn't make the plays they needed when they needed them.


WV looked sloppy in losing to South Florida, with six turnovers.


WV looked sloppy in barely beating an underachieving Louisville, with four more turnovers. The defense couldn't stop UL in the second half; late-game heroics by the qb pulled it out for them.


WV looked averaged beating UC, with three more turnovers and a defense that gave up over 400 yards.


WV does have nice wins over Mississippi State and Maryland. And they ran up the score against over-matched opponents like Western Michigan, Marshall, UConn, and Syracuse, while the defense gave up over 20 points in three of those.

I just don't see how beating the Big East can compare with the meatgrinder that is a Big Ten schedule, and I don't care how computer wonks try to objectify it. And it's not like Ohio State came out of nowhere, like, for instance, Kansas, causing a pollster to ask, "How did they get here?" They've been at the top of the scene for years. The BCS uses a schedule strength component in an attempt to remain neutral or above it all, but it just dumbs down the process, it doesn't add to it. And it still relies on polls, which are the result of biases and laziness, which was my original point way back when. It's not just the Bucks vs. the Neers, that's just this week's version of our discussion. But now that we're getting down to the end of it, that's what matters to me.

If Missouri wins and OSU plays SC in the Rose Bowl, I will know which game will determine the best team in the country this year, and it won't be the championship game. :cool:

Let me ask you, why do you think WVU and Missourri are both ranked higher than OSU in the BCS poll? Nothing more, nothing less, just want to know that question

[harnesslover]

A truly discerning pollster would look at their total seasons and notice:

OSU completely shut down Michigan for their worst offensive output in 45 years. In the Big House, with a senior-laden team that came back specifically to beat OSU at least once.


OSU completely shut down Michigan State, the conference's leading offensive team, held them to three points.


OSU completely shut down Purdue on the road, a team that had been averaging 45 points per game. Boilers got a meaningless TD with ten seconds to go to avoid a shutout.


OSU was given a good game by Wisconsin, until 21 fourth quarter points turned it into a rout.


OSU went into Happy Valley and totally shut down Penn State; a late-game kickoff return made the score closer than it really was.


And, yes, OSU did get beat at home to an improved Illinois team. No excuses, they didn't play well enough to win. They didn't get blown out or embarrassed, they just didn't make the plays they needed when they needed them.


WV looked sloppy in losing to South Florida, with six turnovers.


WV looked sloppy in barely beating an underachieving Louisville, with four more turnovers. The defense couldn't stop UL in the second half; late-game heroics by the qb pulled it out for them.


WV looked averaged beating UC, with three more turnovers and a defense that gave up over 400 yards.


WV does have nice wins over Mississippi State and Maryland. And they ran up the score against over-matched opponents like Western Michigan, Marshall, UConn, and Syracuse, while the defense gave up over 20 points in three of those.
. :cool:

Let's look at a few other things:

* The Big Ten generally sucks this year. They have exactly 1 team in the top 15 and 2 in the top 25. So the in conference schedule for OSU is weak at best

* OSU did not play NOR beat a top 20 team all year long.

* Considering the Big 10's (lack of) strength this year, you could look to OSU's non conference schedule for a 'boost' or a quality win. The non-conference schedule consisted of:

1-AA Youngstown State
Akron
Washington (actually their best NC asset was this win)

So that leaves a team with a loss to an unranked team, an in conference schedule that included exactly 1 top 25 team, zero top 20 wins, 1 decent non conference win against an unranked team and wins over Youngstown St and Akron.

And this is the team that you are trying to convince people should be playing for a national title.

Wow.

[rastajenk]

Let me ask you, why do you think WVU and Missourri are both ranked higher than OSU in the BCS poll? Nothing more, nothing less, just want to know that question

I already mentioned it, it's because they lost earlier in the year and had time to work their way up as others lost.

You forgot Kent. They beat Kent. :p

[harnesslover]

I already mentioned it, it's because they lost earlier in the year and had time to work their way up as others lost.

You forgot Kent. They beat Kent. :p

Do you think that part of the supposed 'screw job' against OSU is OSU's fault? DO you think they maybe could have scheduled a tough non conference opponent, knowing their Big 10 competition hasn't been exactly 'stellar' of late?

Just for instance, take away the Kent State or Akron win and replace it with a win over Georgia or Oregon or USC or even a top 20 team and they are probably playing for the national championship.

I understand you want to will them in, but the reality is, they don't have the resume to deserve a national championship shot.

[rastajenk]

Well, all it takes is for Missouri to lose to Oklahoma again, and they'll get their shot. Where will you and your logic be, then?

Name me one AD out there in the collegiate world of sports who has the knowledge, vision, and power to say, "Our conference will be down next year; I need to tweak our schedule to enhance our chances of a national title." It doesn't work that way.

Would you care to address the Michigan/Florida thing from last year that I mentioned earlier? Was that a logical outcome of scheduling, or merely the whim of the voters?

Have you ever heard the adage, "Defense wns championships?" Bucks have it, others don't.

[GaryG]

Well, all it takes is for Missouri to lose to Oklahoma again, and they'll get their shot. Where will you and your logic be, then?IMO this is a VERY likely scenario....Ralph, the Bucks ain't dead yet. I doubt that WV can handle them. The Trojans and Dawgs would be an attractive match up in the Rose Bowl.

[harnesslover]

Have you ever heard the adage, "Defense wns championships?" Bucks have it, others don't.

Defense against weak teams!! Do you even get that? They did not play ONE TOP 20 TEAM ALL YEAR LONG.. Not ONE

Its like a $20 claimer that dominates at Golden Gate and you trying to tell me he can compete in the Breeders Cup b/c he dominated his competition.

hell, why do we even bother worrying about class when handicapping horses? A win is a win, right?

[harnesslover]

Well, all it takes is for Missouri to lose to Oklahoma again, and they'll get their shot. Where will you and your logic be, then?



And if this scenario plays out and Ohio State goes out and gets embarrassed yet again, what does this prove?

[ghostyapper]

And if this scenario plays out and Ohio State goes out and gets embarrassed yet again, what does this prove?

It'll prove the same thing as west virginia getting blown out would.

[harnesslover]

It'll prove the same thing as west virginia getting blown out would.

and what would that be Ghostyapper?

[harnesslover]

Interesting article on Ohio State and the BCS Title Game:


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2007-11-28-ohio-state_N.htm