All hail Cleveland........and Cuyahoga county

[JustRalph]

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2007/11/thousands_apply_for_limited_jo.html

6000 applied for 300 jobs
The longtime Dem Stronghold of Cuyahoga county is in bad shape..........

With people like Kucinich and cleveland politicians representing them........nothing will ever change................

[Tom]

Yes it will, Ralph....it will only get worse.

The defeatocrats breed failure.

[MikeDee]

I assume you read the entire article including the following:

It could have been worse. In Illinois recently, Masten said, 25,000 and 15,000 people applied at two Wal-Mart stores in the Chicago area, and neither of those is a large Supercenter.

As long as the business leaders in this country continue to export all possible jobs to China and India we will continue on the road to being a country with 4 classes of people.

The rich
The people who shop at Wal-Mart
The people who work at Wal-Mart
The people who apply for Jobs at Wal-Mart

[robert99]

Sadly, even some PA posters and dimwitted Republicans could not now get a job there.

"Or it's possible some workers see Wal-Mart as one of the few employment options available to them. Masten said Wal-Mart considers people with zero work experience and demands only that applicants be able to read, write and speak English, possess identification and pass a drug test. "


Even then the resident pair of PA far right loonies try to make hate capital out of the economic distress caused to their own country folks. Sad the national problems can't even start to be put right until 2009.

"Amy Hanauer, executive director of Policy Matters Ohio, said she finds these ratios "deeply troubling," reminiscent of bread lines in times of great poverty. She said the figures paint a bleak portrait of the regional job market and underscore the need for more and better employment opportunities.

"That's Depression-era kind of imagery," she said. ". . . You can't have an economy that works that way. It speaks to the need to generate a different kind of employment in Cleveland"

[The Judge]

There must be some money around town somewhere. I don't think the rich are shopping at Wal-Mart so somebody has some money in Cleveland along with the rich. If you shop at Wal-Mart you drive there,gas is expensive if you look in the parking lot there are new cars and good cars, I mean there aren't a bunch of wrecks there.

Its strange I know things are bad for alot of people. I am starting to think that being poor in the USA doesn't mean the same thing as it may have meant some years ago it certainly doesn't mean the same thing as in other countries, here even the poor can shop.

This doesn't mean things are great in Cleveland it just shows that there is still some money around for now. If real jobs keep leaving this country Wal - Mart will feel the squeeze along with everyone else.

Of course as long as your credit is good you can shop.

[Tom]

Right on the money, Judge. Poor is a realtive term.
Many of the people the dems whine about not having health insurance have cable, or dish TV, two cars, microwave ovens, yadda yadda. They are hardly poor - thay have made poor choices. They prefer thier 500 channels over HC, so I should pack up the tab for it.

The problem with business outsourcing is shared by both parties - the repubs could care less as long as they get thier bribe money, er, I mean lobbyist welfare, and the dems want to tax them out existence.

Does anyone think maybe Wal Mart jobs are far beynd the capabilities of many people? What value is there in the greeter?:rolleyes:

[ljb]

The economic conditions in Cleveland should come as a surprise to no one. The corporate sponsored Republican/neocons have always made their decisions based on only one thing... The Bottom Line. As mentioned earlier in this thread, they export decent paying jobs and import illegals to perform jobs that cannot be exported, at lower wages. This leads to a lower standard of living for good hard working American middle class folks.
The only thing sadder then this condition is the apparent glee which a couple of posters here seem to display at this economic disaster for the good people of Cleveland.

[delayjf]

Many of the people the dems whine about not having health insurance have cable, or dish TV, two cars, microwave ovens, yadda yadda. They are hardly poor
Indeed, like that family, the Demwits paraded in front of the Nation as victoms when President Bush vetoed the SCHIP bill.

[Tom]

Indeed, like that family, the Demwits paraded in front of the Nation as victoms when President Bush vetoed the SCHIP bill.

Did you mis-spell SCHIP Bill? :lol:

[rastajenk]

Those economic conditions of Cleveland aren't the same as down here in the southwestern part of the same state. Same greedy Republican/neocon (what does foreign affairs have to do with it, anyway) controlled corporations shipping jobs overseas, but somehow things are different here. Maybe it's the water or the air or something, but I get the feeling it has more to do with politics.

[JustRalph]

Even then the resident pair of PA far right loonies try to make hate capital out of the economic distress caused to their own country folks. Sad the national problems can't even start to be put right until 2009.


Listen Robert. Nobody is making "hate capital" I am pointing out that the people of this area continually re-elect Democratic leadership that continues to get nothing done. I have an interest in the area. I own a home near this specific area. I live there part time. I also own a home in the Columbus Ohio area and the same problems exist in each place. Two hours apart from each other. Long time Dem leadership has either sold them out or ignored the problems of the city. They talk and talk about fixing things, but never get anything done. Both of my homes are in suburbs of these areas, but are affected terribly by the failure to perform of Cleveland and Columbus. Columbus is much better off than Cleveland, mostly due to the economic influence of Ohio State University. Take OSU out of Columbus and it would resemble Cleveland in many ways.

Both cities have long time Democratic administrations (Council and Mayor) who continually churn problems through the system, throw money at them and sit back and watch as the areas fail over and over again. They fail to address any cultural issues, just throw money at problems. Well, the money has dried up in both cities. Very little is left and nobody is willing to pay anymore. Hell, nobody lives in the cities anymore, except those who can't afford to get out to the suburbs. And those persons left in the city, good or bad don't make any changes when it is time to choose candidates. This hasn't been that big an issue until the last ten years or so. The cities have mandated huge taxes on business (Airports, Hotel Rooms etc) and nobody wants to do business in either city.

Recently the noted Scholar Charles Barkley visited the city of Cleveland for the NBA finals. After spending 3 days in Cleveland he went on ESPN's "Pardon the Interruption" and scolded the city of Cleveland for what "it has become" and implored Lebron James to take "some of his money" and help the city.

Past failures are coming home to roost. In the Columbus Area Honda of America was coaxed away from Columbus to a city 35 miles northwest, because the administration at the time in Columbus (this was 25 years ago) didn't have the foresight to understand that "all business" coming to the city would be a future advantage. They refused incentives etc. Honda of America pumps over 35 million dollars into the economy 35 miles northwest of Columbus and has so for the last twenty five years. This was a huge mistake in Columbus.

In Cleveland there are other failures of the same magnitude. There were tax incentives for the Professional teams, NBA and MLB. They have gone on for years. There are a few studies out there that now prove that both of these teams actually push the deal into red ink that is made up by the city. The players live in the Western suburbs and the western suburbs flourish. Upscale homes etc. But even now those suburbs are feeling the pinch from the failures of the city of Cleveland. The hordes who flock to the games all live in suburbs and now that the Auto plants are failing (Ford and GM) the city is about to undergo what may be the toughest times since the depression. By 2010 somewhere between 3200-5000 auto workers (depending on buyout participants) will be out of work in the areas around Cleveland. The average salary of these workers exceeds 60 Grand. You do the math. Taking that much money out of the economy surrounding Cleveland has already had an enormous effect on the housing market. Nobody who has already been notified that their jobs are going away is planning on staying, if you can believe the for sale signs everywhere. They are all selling their homes, or at least attempting to. Throw five thousand homes into the market in a short period of time coupled with the market already being the worst in twenty years and you are going to see a failure of the housing market on the magnitude of the great depression. In Columbus the city is trying to figure out how to deal with thousands of homes that have been foreclosed on. The police are now dealing with squatters who are moving into abandoned homes. The Banks normally have a six month backlog before they even get out to inspect abandoned/foreclosed homes and the criminal element is now setting up meth labs and such in the normally placid areas of the city. Including the suburbs of Columbus.

The city of Columbus just inherited a mall in downtown Columbus that was basically abandoned by the owners. These same owners who accepted tax incentives and other inducements for the mall. The crime and other factors of which the city failed to address, produced an environment wherein nobody dared go downtown in Columbus. Macy's and others ran. Gang Activity and such setup the suburban areas for similar flight that occurred in the housing market. Malls were built in the suburbs and the downtown died. Another failure by the Dem Administrations, glossed over. Oh Btw, inherited might be inaccurate. The city actually purchased the mall in some kind of stupid agreement, for the bargain basement price of 2.8 million dollars. So the owners not only ran, they got paid to leave. The newly re-elected Dem Mayor M. Coleman (some of you may remember him from the Glenn Beck show) says that "the city will turn the property around" more failure in the offing......at the expense of tax payers.

So as you can see from these few examples......the status Que lives on and the sheep continue to elect those who are fighting for "the poor" whilst they continue to make them even more poor. And the cultural and economic problems get worse. It is a sad state of affairs. And pointing it out is not making "hate capital" I have a dog in the fight............and it is a good example of why this State is failing in so many areas .

Btw, if you think that electing a Dem in 2008 will help, you are crazy. Take the tax cuts away, raise taxes and you pound the nails in the coffin of these areas.

[JustRalph]

oh yeah, I forgot to point out that most of this area is served by that great intellect from Congress...........the Honorable Elf himself..........

Dennis Kucinich

http://garlinggauge.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/kucinichandwife.jpg

[ljb]

JR,
Lottsa words. You are speaking of international companies. Local government has little control over what international companies do. The American based auto companies have been in trouble for years here. This is partly caused by legacy costs and unfair trade policies. I doubt if the city council in either Cleveland or Columbus could have a major impact on these international circumstances. Yes they could give tax breaks to the corporations which would take them and show more profit only to pull out as soon as the tax breaks expired. Meanwhile you and I are paying taxes to provide the services required to support these corporate facilities. In this day and age a facility 35 miles outside a city is not to be considered out sourcing. No, this is not a problem caused by the local government, this is a problem caused by the corporate lobbyists that currently control our federal government.

[JustRalph]

ok........you can tell this issue has me fired up huh?

JR,
Lottsa words. You are speaking of international companies. Local government has little control over what international companies do.

Bullshit! The 13% bed Tax on Hotels keeps anybody from coming. It doesn't discriminate based on company size or location. If you come to Columbus to do business you pay it. You setup shop in Columbus and the local confiscatory inventory taxes take hold. There are others. Locals don't come to Columbus either. They know better. I used to have to pay this "bed" tax when I rented an Airplane in one of the Airports in the Franklin County area. They actually tacked it on to anything to do with the Airports and hotels. Two hours of flying cost $30 bucks more in Columbus. When you are a flight student........$30 bucks means something. I started flying from an Airport five minutes across the county line. I also later hangered my plane there (gas was cheaper, no bed tax) and spent thousands of dollars in the repair shop etc......five minutes outside the border of the bed tax. This tax was also put on rental cars and such. It remains today. These companies see a tax and spend council and government that thinks that they can fix all of their problems with a tax increase. These companies know the climate. They know that they will be the target of future tax increases. They will gravitate away from it

The American based auto companies have been in trouble for years here. This is partly caused by legacy costs and unfair trade policies. I doubt if the city council in either Cleveland or Columbus could have a major impact on these international circumstances.

Not particularly, agreed to an extent but their reliance on and their dependence on just these types of companies is what makes them think they can ignore other businesses who need incentives to come to town. The fact that these autoworkers don't live in the city and choose the suburbs, has robbed (quite literally) the city of millions of dollars over the last 25 years. How much stronger would the city be if the dollars spent in the suburbs were actually in the coffers of the city businesses? Ignoring and practically encouraging flight from the cities hurts everybody. The city governments have this responsibility right in their laps. The city governments are responsible for crime and the state of the neighborhoods. This includes the school systems who invented "white flight" while trying to force liberal causes down the throats of citizens. Instead of naturally occurring societal changes.....which were coming.......an entire generation opted out........leaving the cities behind. This is a classic example of why inner cities have failed due to liberal causes.

Yes they could give tax breaks to the corporations which would take them and show more profit only to pull out as soon as the tax breaks expired.

Wrong. Several suburbs have dealt with this and in the agreements they have put in penalty clauses that keep this from happening. If the company pulls out they have to pay a penalty. These have been upheld by the courts too. If the company goes Tits up and files bankruptcy the city becomes a compensated creditor just like everybody else.

Meanwhile you and I are paying taxes to provide the services required to support these corporate facilities. In this day and age a facility 35 miles outside a city is not to be considered out sourcing. No, this is not a problem caused by the local government, this is a problem caused by the corporate lobbyists that currently control our federal government.

You cannot ignore the control local governments have over the areas. The biggest mistake they make is not governing from the right position. They are more concerned with being socially liberal than fiscally sound for the future.
I don't know what the hell you mean by the outsourcing comment above, but it is not germane to my argument...as far as I can see. The company I mentioned just crossed Columbus off its list of locations. It has nothing to do with outsourcing.

Recently the same thing happen with Toyota. A location near Toledo was being considered for a Toyota plant. The State couldn't get the job done the last I read the plant is being built in Indiana. This Toyota factory will sustain the area for at least the next 25 years. Can you imagine Toyota going out of business? All the stops should have been pulled out to land this factory. Nope, they couldn't get it done. More failure on the part of government. Local Government.

[ljb]

Again lottsa words.
Have you ever been out of Ohio ? Columbus is not the only place in this country that has bullshit taxes. See Jr, communities must provide certain basic services police protection, fire protection, utilities etc. If they fail to provide these services they fail and are no longer communities. Step two they must have funds to provide those services. Where they get the money is the primary contentious issue. You have gone to length to tell us what you don't like about Columbus's methods of obtaining these funds. Where do you suggest they get the moneys needed to provide such services ?

[rrpic6]

I assume you read the entire article including the following:



As long as the business leaders in this country continue to export all possible jobs to China and India we will continue on the road to being a country with 4 classes of people.

The rich
The people who shop at Wal-Mart
The people who work at Wal-Mart
The people who apply for Jobs at Wal-Mart

Ralph:
As far as I know..Kucinich is the only Presidential Candidate in favor of repealing NAFTA. So how is he to blame for this race to the bottom? We see 1st hand how 8 years of Bush economics has further spread the gap in the hav's and hav nots.
BTW: WTAM in Cleveland has Casino Windsor ads. The plumeting American dollar is forcing Canada to try and lure us over the border for EVEN money.

RR

[JustRalph]

Again lottsa words.
Have you ever been out of Ohio ? Columbus is not the only place in this country that has bullshit taxes. See Jr, communities must provide certain basic services police protection, fire protection, utilities etc. If they fail to provide these services they fail and are no longer communities. Step two they must have funds to provide those services. Where they get the money is the primary contentious issue. You have gone to length to tell us what you don't like about Columbus's methods of obtaining these funds. Where do you suggest they get the moneys needed to provide such services ?

Give me a break. I have lived in eight different states over the last 25 years. I have owned property and paid property taxes in 6. I have lived in California (Twice), Maine, Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, Ohio, New York (only about 4 months though) and Vermont. So don't treat me like some bumpkin. I of all people understand the tax issues on the local level. I have worked for 5 different municipalities and two different counties.

I understand the "basic services" better than just about anybody. I can tell you about money being washed away in the rivers, on vehicles for family members of politicians.........misappropriation of funds etc. I won't go on. It wouldn't matter. We could talk about a dozen different ways tax money is wasted. And that wouldn't even get us into reasons why the government shouldn't be doing half the stuff they do now. Schools are a whole different ball of wax............. But I will stop............you don't want to hear it.

I suggest they get the money from taxes. But we are over taxed and we get almost nothing back for it. They waste our money like it has no end. And nobody gives a good God Damn!!! And we are powerless to stop it. Because people like you never heard of a tax that you weren't for.

[JustRalph]

Ralph:
As far as I know..Kucinich is the only Presidential Candidate in favor of repealing NAFTA. So how is he to blame for this race to the bottom? We see 1st hand how 8 years of Bush economics has further spread the gap in the hav's and hav nots.
BTW: WTAM in Cleveland has Casino Windsor ads. The plumeting American dollar is forcing Canada to try and lure us over the border for EVEN money.

RR

You know, you finally found one thing I have in common with Kucinich. The NAFTA issue. But the Dems are about to try and elect one of the biggest supporters of NAFTA? Hillary and Bill were told over and over what was going to happen and they ignored it. And don't say Hillary had nothing to do with it. She wants to talk about her experience on these issues while at Bill's side for 8 years, then she should be taking the heat on NAFTA right along with him.

Remember Ross Perot talking about that giant sucking sound? (Click here) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_sucking_sound) You know, the one where he said the noise would be American jobs flying out of the country? Remember Clinton's response to that? He said it wouldn't happen. Well time has proven that that little bastard with the big ears was right!

I hope he saved his charts...............

You talk about the haves and have nots. I agree there is widening gap in the middle. But how can you then be for repealing the tax cuts? This will provide disincentives for business to expand and further exacerbate the job market for those in the middle. You can't have it both ways. Remove the tax cuts and proclaim you are helping the middle. You are just transferring control over the money to those in Washington..........which is never a good idea.

[ljb]

Give me a break. I have lived in eight different states over the last 25 years. I have owned property and paid property taxes in 6. I have lived in California (Twice), Maine, Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, Ohio, New York (only about 4 months though) and Vermont. So don't treat me like some bumpkin. I of all people understand the tax issues on the local level. I have worked for 5 different municipalities and two different counties.

Sorry didn't mean to disturb you. Interesting to hear that you have worked for municipalities. Were you an employee or a contractor ?
I understand the "basic services" better than just about anybody. I can tell you about money being washed away in the rivers, on vehicles for family members of politicians.........misappropriation of funds etc. I won't go on. It wouldn't matter. We could talk about a dozen different ways tax money is wasted. And that wouldn't even get us into reasons why the government shouldn't be doing half the stuff they do now. I have worked in private industry, public government, charity and volunteer efforts. I have yet to find an environment that does not have waste, misappropriation of funds deadbeats etc. Should we just stop all activity ? Schools are a whole different ball of wax............. But I will stop............you don't want to hear it. Schools, i am reminded of the cliche " give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats for life" and then many do not want to fund the teaching ???

I suggest they get the money from taxes. But we are over taxed and we get almost nothing back for it. They waste our money like it has no end. And nobody gives a good God Damn!!! And we are powerless to stop it. Because people like you never heard of a tax that you weren't for.
A few weeks back I voted against a millage proposal in my community for school repairs. Can't see them building $400,000 offices for our new school board and neglecting the schools themselves.

[JustRalph]

Were you an employee or a contractor ? I have worked in private industry, public government, charity and volunteer efforts. I have yet to find an environment that does not have waste, misappropriation of funds deadbeats etc. Should we just stop all activity ? A few weeks back I voted against a millage proposal in my community for school repairs. Can't see them building $400,000 offices for our new school board and neglecting the schools themselves.

I was an employee. Never a contractor. I got recruited away a few times and moved for more money and better position a couple of times. Twice I moved out of state. Never got fired, in case you are wondering.

I don't have a problem with taxes at a fair level. But when States and Municipalities start doing things they should never do, or be involved with, they are wasting our money. They never do it efficiently, no matter the task. You say you have seen the same things I have........and you don't feel the same way I do. I don't know why, but it irks me to no end when I see that kind of waste of public money.

Good for you on your voting against a school levy. I haven't voted for a School Levy ever. I personally think public schools should be closed.

We aren't going to change any minds here, but it is a hot button of mine.

[JustRalph]

If you are interested in the ruination of a great state........this series might interest you.

I know there are Ohioians on the board............I thought I would post a link to this series

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/12/02/CITYFATE.ART_ART_12-02-07_A1_UF8K98V.html?sid=101

Ohio's cities, as we have historically known them, are dead. Forget the past. Except for Columbus, Ohio's big cities have endured vast population and job losses.

City leaders realize the glory days are not coming back. They are working on strategies to reinvent, transform or do an extreme makeover of thier towns in order to compete in the new global economy.

The Dispatch takes a look at the issues, through the eyes of those living in those cities, at Ohio's urban plight.


On the brink
Can Ohio's big cities be saved?
Sunday, December 2, 2007 3:47 AM
By Mark Niquette, Alan Johnson and Joe Hallett

http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/images/dec/cities_logo_spec_rpt_2x_12-02-07_A1_GQ8L2FU.jpg


The pictures are old, faded, black and white.

But the vibrancy of Ohio's once-thriving big cities remains crystal clear. You see it in faces in the crush of people outside W.T. Grant's in downtown Youngstown in 1952, the frenetic shift change at B.F. Goodrich Co. in Akron in the 1940s, a bustling street market in Dayton in 1910.

Most of the stores, factories and people in those photos are long gone, reminders of an era when Ohio's large cities were powerhouses. Their workers helped build America with the steel, cars and tires they made. Their entrepreneurs gave the world powered flight, the automobile self-starter and other inventions.

Today, however, most of Ohio's seven largest cities are teetering.

With the exception of Columbus, they have shed more than one-third of their population and watched as income, home values and other economic indicators dropped below national averages while poverty, job losses, crime and foreclosures skyrocketed.

In the booming 1950s, the state's seven big cities boasted a combined 450,000 manufacturing jobs. Fifty years later, only a third of those jobs remained.

"Our urban core cities are legacy costs of the great industrial age," said state Rep. Larry Wolpert, a Hilliard Republican who led a 2004 study of Ohio's cities.

Some residents who fled the decline and struggling school systems for the suburbs or rapidly growing townships say they don't need Ohio's dying big cities anymore, except for an occasional ball game or museum visit.

But experts warn that Ohio is ignoring the urban plight at its own peril. They say that today's inner-city problems are spreading to the suburbs, as a rotten core eventually makes the whole apple bad.

~much, much more at the link~

Audio on Excessive Government
http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/content/multimedia/audio/2007/11/katz/gov.html

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/special_reports/stories/2007/cities/index.html

Meanwhile, townships have been empowered by the General Assembly, which has granted them more authority to rebuff city annexation attempts, regulate strip clubs and control zoning issues.

"In my opinion, this group has been totally, 100 percent set on destroying central cities in Ohio," Plusquellic charged, referring to legislative Republicans.

State Rep. Kevin DeWine of Fairborn, deputy chairman of the Ohio Republican Party, said the mayors' criticism is unfair in view of the hundreds of millions of dollars lawmakers have allocated for urban projects and schools. High city income taxes and poor schools, not home rule issues, have caused the middle class flight from cities, DeWine said.

"It's the expected response -- blame somebody else for your own problems," DeWine said, referring to the mayors' criticism. "They have only to look in the mirror to find out why their cities are suffering. I'm not going to let somebody blame us for the failing school districts in our urban areas or the high income tax rates that people are trying to get away from."

Findings
Except for Columbus, Ohio's big cities have endured vast population and job losses, but now city leaders realize the glory days aren't coming back.
A key reason the plight of Ohio's major cities can't be ignored: Their problems will continue to spread to the suburbs and beyond.
Cities are adopting unique strategies to reverse years of decline, but they remain hindered by crime and poor-performing school districts.

[MikeDee]

In the booming 1950s, the state's seven big cities boasted a combined 450,000 manufacturing jobs. Fifty years later, only a third of those jobs remained

In the 70's the biggest employer in the state was GM, Now it Wal-Mart. It's all about good jobs with decent wages and benefits. Without jobs there is nothing ANY of politicians (rep, dem, lib, con) can do to change the decline.

Keep moving the work to Mexico, India, China, and any place else where you can get workers for ten cents and hour with no benefits and more and more of the cities and states in this country will look like Ohio.

This economy is based on consumer spending. When you eliminate the good paying jobs you are also eliminating the consumers who can afford all the goods and services.

But, lets just keep telling ourselves on how good things are in the "good ole USA".

[ljb]

Good post MikeDee,
You have stated my main concern regarding the conditions in the good ol USA. Concise and to the point.

[JustRalph]

Then answer for me ..........why are we about to elect a person who was in on NAFTA? A person who still refuses to say it was bad for America?

Oh yeah, because she is a Dem..............

[Tom]

The legacy of the last dem presidency - the growth of terrorism and NAFYA paving the way for job to leave. And a recession.

Got milk?

[ljb]

Then answer for me ..........why are we about to elect a person who was in on NAFTA? A person who still refuses to say it was bad for America?

Oh yeah, because she is a Dem..............
Hillary was not and is not my personal choice for President. On one of these threads I said she is a moderate Republican. She like many others is on the take of corporate powers. However she is the most moderate of all Republicans running therefore she will get my vote if it comes to that.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hillary was not and is not my personal choice for President. On one of these threads I said she is a moderate Republican. She like many others is on the take of corporate powers. However she is the most moderate of all Republicans running therefore she will get my vote if it comes to that.That's hardcore dude....are you sure you've never been to the Dem Underground site?

[ljb]

never been to the site, perhaps you could post a link and i will check it out.

[JustRalph]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080127183107.ahcwfxrz&show_article=1

US mortgage crisis creates ghost town

Jan 27 01:31 PM US/Eastern

The streets are empty. Trash rustles down the road past rusted barbecues, abandoned furniture, sagging homes and gardens turned to weed.
This is Shaker Heights, a suburb of Cleveland and a town ravaged by the subprime mortgage crisis roiling the United States.

Faded "for sale" signs sit in front of deserted houses. The residents are gone, either in search of new jobs after the factories shut down, or in shame after being evicted for missing their mortgage payments.

A red, white and blue American flag flies over windows and doors which have been boarded up to keep the drug dealers away.

Thieves have stripped many homes of the plumbing, the doors, the windows, the aluminum siding.

The police station parking lot is full. The officers, who have seen their numbers triple since 2006, are coming back from their rounds. They speak of installing alarms in some of the homes claimed by squatters.

~more at the link~

[46zilzal]

Same in Stockton, CA as shown on 60 Minutes over the weekend.

[riskman]

Unfortunately if you think of a major company that was around in the 70s or 80s, the chances are it is gone or severely downsized, and its well paid jobs with it, from just about any industry you can think of. They are too numerous to recount with any completeness, it is a sorry state of affairs.Where manufacturing remains locally, all expansion occurs abroad and the places stagnate.The railroads and links which were so important to industrial cities have all atrophied and are hardly what they were,and these jobs are also reduced.
Between unions, federal reserve inflation, taxes, and regulations, not to mention increasingly spendthrift government, Cleveland (and many other communities) have had their economic hearts ripped out. It didn't help that a lot of these cities was a one party town. (Democrat) The remaining people and businesses face higher tax burdens and lowered services, plus growing crime from the welfare/criminal underclass.
This combination drives more businesses out. The middle class is gutted, and much of the remaining middle class are civil servants dependent on the tax rolls of the remaining businesses and property owners. One income families become two income families, each earning a fraction of the lost manufacturing wage, and so on. So often, the well paid jobs that remain are government sector jobs, and most of the economically ignorant populace doesn't see the link between the loss of manufacturing on one hand and the veritable explosion in government agencies and jobs on the other.
The destruction of manufacturing and family farms (the latter accomplished as much by regulation, subsidy, and inheritance taxes as anything) IS the destruction of the middle class. So many of the jobs that replace manufacturing are not adequate to replace the income of the jobs lost. The reality is that there are only so many high wage, high value jobs in the service industries, and they are increasingly portable and no longer location dependent. Increasingly countries like China and India will also pick up the jobs requiring intellectual skills as they develop the manufacturing proficiency. You know that.
Jobs capable of producing tradable goods and services continue to be lost at a rapid rate.Computer jobs are disappearing. The United States continues to import several million legal and illegal poor immigrants each year. There is no economic or social rationale for the United States to permit massive inflows of poor people, whose needs are overwhelming U.S. taxpayers, hospitals and government budgets.
It is possible that the loss of American jobs in tradable goods and services, combined with the importation of massive numbers of poor people, will leave the United States hurting to purchase its energy needs in world markets. When the dollar's value is undermined by budget and trade deficits, energy prices for Americans will explode,and they have.
A country that substitutes foreign labor for its own domestic labor via outsourcing, offshore production and Internet hiring, a country that transfers its wealth to foreigners to pay for imports, a country that fills up with welfare-dependent multitudes while it squanders hundreds of billions in Iraq is a country headed for a major problem.
The United States has lost so much of its core industrial capability that advanced manufacturing skills are disappearing in this country. The United States lacks mass production ability in critical areas of high-tech manufacturing.
The United States assembles parts made elsewhere. Knowledge- and capital-demanding activities, such as charge-coupled devices, industrial robotics, numerically controlled machine tools, laser diodes and carbon fibers, are passing out of U.S. hands.
A service economy has less to export than a manufacturing economy. What will the United States sell abroad to pay for its energy and manufacturing imports?
We are currently paying for our imports by giving up the ownership of our companies, real estate, and corporate and government bonds.
While the once fabulous U.S. economy is now having problems , the CURRENT ADMINISTRATION thinks its most important goal is to waste massive sums of money to force "democracy" on Middle Eastern peoples who do not want it. You figure it !!!!

[Tom]

The ultimate goal is to dilute the USA so it will fit, submissively into the Global Econmoy that benfits the horizontal community of elitists.

This is the New World Order.....it is already well along. A strong US is a threat to these people, so it must go. Bush is just the current steward of our downfall. Clinton was also one. Look at the candidates running today - which one best fits the bill to evaporate our sovereignty? That is the winner.

[46zilzal]

While the once fabulous U.S. economy is now having problems , the CURRENT ADMINISTRATION thinks its most important goal is to waste massive sums of money to force "democracy" on Middle Eastern peoples who do not want it. You figure it !!!!
Bravo Bravo.....

[riskman]

The ultimate goal is to dilute the USA so it will fit, submissively into the Global Econmoy that benfits the horizontal community of elitists.

This is the New World Order.....it is already well along. A strong US is a threat to these people, so it must go. Bush is just the current steward of our downfall. Clinton was also one. Look at the candidates running today - which one best fits the bill to evaporate our sovereignty? That is the winner.

Yes Tom, we are in deep ----. !

[ddog]

Risk,


You are almost correct in the "force democracy on them and they don't want it".

Actually , the people at the bottom wouldn't mind it , they could then vote in the groups that have taken their side as they see it over the decades.

The extremists , to start with would win in a walk if a popular vote were allowed to stand and that's how it should be.

That is the flip side of us propping (or to be seen to be ) propping up these regimes over there that are not reflecting the masses of people.

Look at the Gaza deal, it may be bad but things are changing, people there are taking charge. We may not like it, but you have to let them play out their string on their own rope.

If we had the courage of our ideals that founded this country we would see that and let them have at it without us in the middle of things.

Once they have made their choice and then they come at us , then all bets are off.
But, you must let them run their own affairs.


That's what will happen anyway.

Wow, sorry , that is not in keeping with the thread, skip it.

[MikeDee]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.ph...&show_article=1

US mortgage crisis creates ghost town

New York-based reporter mistakes Cleveland for Shaker Heights in subprime story

-the street he described was in Cleveland not Shaker Heights
- the quotes he used were never said by the people he attributed them to
- the writer said that the number of cops has tripled, when in fact it has decreased.

No sense letting a little thing like facts get in the way of a great story.

Here is a link the the article in the Plain Dealer. You may have to enter your zip code and age to read it.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1201685834303840.xml&coll=2

[JustRalph]

and the beat goes on.............

http://www.newsnet5.com/money/15854590/detail.html


200 Local National City Jobs Head To India

POSTED: 9:07 am EDT April 11, 2008
UPDATED: 9:53 am EDT April 11, 2008


CLEVELAND -- National City officials said its preparing to outsource up to 200 jobs to India.

The jobs are moving from the 2,000-employee operations center to India.

~see the link~

An interesting DU thread on the subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3264549

[JustRalph]

These people are animals..........

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90KAU580&show_article=1

[Show Me the Wire]

I assume you read the entire article including the following:

It could have been worse. In Illinois recently, Masten said, 25,000 and 15,000 people applied at two Wal-Mart stores in the Chicago area, and neither of those is a large Supercenter.

As long as the business leaders in this country continue to export all possible jobs to China and India we will continue on the road to being a country with 4 classes of people.

The rich
The people who shop at Wal-Mart
The people who work at Wal-Mart
The people who apply for Jobs at Wal-Mart

Illinois is goverened by Democrats too. The Gov. is a Democrat and both Senators are Democrats, Durbin and Obama. A Democrat president, Clinton tought for NAFTA"s passage.The dots connect to the Democrats and their economic strategies, which is the point of the original post that the Democratic party is a failure at economic planning.

[ddog]

These people are animals..........

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90KAU580&show_article=1


Yeah, sounds like lower taxes would help.

Sounds like it saved the local police from their fun w/sticks and tasers.
Wonder if any are left around there any more.

I say cut those taxes , arm 'em with gvt issued uzi and cordon off the place.
It will soon be over.

[46zilzal]

Yeah, sounds like lower taxes would help.

Sounds like it saved the local police from their fun w/sticks and tasers.
Wonder if any are left around there any more.

I say cut those taxes , arm 'em with gvt issued uzi and cordon off the place.
It will soon be over.

Again violence is the answer to almost everything under the sun.

[ddog]

Illinois is goverened by Democrats too. The Gov. is a Democrat and both Senators are Democrats, Durbin and Obama. A Democrat president, Clinton tought for NAFTA"s passage.The dots connect to the Democrats and their economic strategies, which is the point of the original post that the Democratic party is a failure at economic planning.


WOW and all this time I thought I recalled Repub votes and demands for the deal to pass.

Must have been the drugs back then, I am hazy on that period.


Economic planning, are you auditioning for the new Gong Show?
This country doesn't need no stinking central economic planning.
Good thing, since we never do any.

That's Commie fighting words. You should be happy that the DEMS are worthless on this score otherwise there would really be some serious fallout.
What ever happened to smaller gvt anyway?
That's the idea, right?


Both parties can not be expected to plan and stick to a plan on these issues, we are too soft and lazy and greedy to allow it.
A fiat currency and a dem/repub don't go together.
It will end badly.

[JustRalph]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/01/marine.slaying.ap/index.html

Marine, back from Iraq, shot dead in his home town

CLEVELAND, Ohio (AP) -- On leave from the violence he had survived in the war in Iraq, a young Marine was so wary of crime on the streets of his own home town that he carried only $8 to avoid becoming a robbery target.


The casket of Marine Lance Cpl. Robert Crutchfield after his funeral service, in Cleveland, on Tuesday.

Despite his caution, Lance Cpl. Robert Crutchfield, 21, was shot point-blank in the neck during a robbery at a bus stop.

Feeding and breathing tubes kept him alive 41/2 months, until he died of an infection on May 18.

Two men have been charged in the attack, and Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Bill Mason said Friday the case was under review to decide whether to seek the death penalty.

"It is an awful story," said Alberta Holt, the young Marine's aunt and his legal guardian when he was a teenager determined to flee a troubled Cleveland school for safer surroundings in the suburbs.

Crutchfield was attacked on January 5 while he and his girlfriend were waiting for a bus. He had heeded the warnings of commanders that a Marine on leave might be seen as a prime robbery target with a pocketful of money, so he only carried $8, his military ID card and a bank card.

"They took it, turned his pockets inside out, took what he had and told him since he was a Marine and didn't have any money he didn't deserve to live. They put the gun to his neck and shot him," Holt told The Associated Press.

The two men charged in the attack were identified as Ean Farrow, 19, and Thomas Ray III, 20, both of Cleveland. Their attorneys did not respond to The Associated Press' requests for comment.

Crutchfield knew he was returning to Iraq for another tour of duty, but had hesitated to tell his family until he was nearing the end of his 30-day leave.

[ddog]

First God Bless this poor soul and his family.


What SUCKS about this , is that this country/state/city runs "schools" that are allowed to be in such bad shape that a good kid like this has to transfer in fear of his life.

He reaped what the last 15-20 years of authority figures in this country have sown with our "escaping" to the burbs mentality.

After all, we shouldn't have to bother with this kind of trouble , that's for "those people" over there to worry about.

[JustRalph]

First God Bless this poor soul and his family.


What SUCKS about this , is that this country/state/city runs "schools" that are allowed to be in such bad shape that a good kid like this has to transfer in fear of his life.

He reaped what the last 15-20 years of authority figures in this country have sown with our "escaping" to the burbs mentality.

After all, we shouldn't have to bother with this kind of trouble , that's for "those people" over there to worry about.

What are you griping about? Cleveland Schools graduated 37% last year?

[plainolebill]

I can't see blaming all of Cleveland's problems on the Dems; I lived there while Voinovich, a Republican, was mayor and the city was in trouble even back then. The city schools were worse than terrible - anyone that had a dime sent their kids to Catholic school and the industrial base was collapsing without any help from NAFTA.

[JustRalph]

I can't see blaming all of Cleveland's problems on the Dems; I lived there while Voinovich, a Republican, was mayor and the city was in trouble even back then. The city schools were worse than terrible - anyone that had a dime sent their kids to Catholic school and the industrial base was collapsing without any help from NAFTA.

Well it sucks more now...........Georgie Boy left the office of Mayor of Cleveland in 1989. That was a while ago.......and the city has been in the hands of Dems since. Just like every other major city in America. Btw, I am no fan of Georgie and think he is ineffective as a Senator.

Roll Call: Detroit, Columbus, Cincinnati, Philadelphia........should I go on?

How about Mayor Dinkins in NY? Rudy takes over and what happens? Think about it............yet we continue to go back to the well in these cities........the Democratic well of social programs over change. Higher Taxes over responsible governing. Don't get me started on the corruption and other stuff.........try this video.........this is one of the funniest newscasts I have ever heard.........

pTDpH6vRXFk

[ddog]

What are you griping about? Cleveland Schools graduated 37% last year?


they should be torn down and taken over by the natl guard or something then.
it's a disgrace and shame , we will be penalized harshly for it.

Did anyone watch the Discovery Channel special on China last night?

Now I don't want to get off track on a debate about culture and all, but it was mind boggling to see the differences displayed in that country, at least in the schools profiled last night, and what I see and hear that passes for our first couple of levels of "schooling" in most parts of this country.

We are toast in the long run if we don't step it up.
They are turning out driven, highly educated people , yearly, in numbers that are as large as our population almost.

I can see that one child deal looks to have really "forced" the parents to value and push the ONE child they get.

That country has many problems and fault lines , but the potential is there for way out things to happen.

I suspect in less than 25 years, the balance of power will have been seen to have shifted strongly to the Asians.

[JustRalph]

What are you griping about? Cleveland Schools graduated 37% last year?


This is a very nice area west of Cleveland. Old Suburb. Funny story actually

http://10tv.com/live/content/onnnews/stories/2008/06/06/misspell.html?sid=102

High School Misspells 'Education' On Diplomas

http://www.justralph.com/grad_rates.jpg

[JustRalph]

Maybe if Dennis Kucinich got off his ass and stopped running for president every four years he could get something done in his district

Cleveland's Unemployment Climbs
Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:42 PM

Cleveland's unemployment rate went into double digits last month, and southeast Ohio's Morgan County was almost there, according to new state figures.

The Ohio Department of Job and Family Services says among the state's largest cities, Cleveland had the highest jobless rate for June, at 10.1 percent. Meigs led the counties, with an unemployment rate of 10 percent.

Columbus and Cuyahoga Falls shared last month's lowest unemployment rate among cities: 5.7 percent.

Delaware, Holmes and Mercer counties tied for the lowest county rate, all with joblessness at 4.9 percent.

On Friday, officials said Ohio's statewide unemployment rate for June was 6.6 percent, up from 6.3 the month before.



CITY RATE
Hamilton 6.6
Springfield 7.2
Cleveland 10.1
Cleveland Hts. 6.4
Euclid 8.1
Lakewood 7.0
Parma 7.8
Columbus 5.7
Cincinnati 6.4
Mentor 6.2
Elyria 7.8
Lorain 9.3
Toledo 8.5
Youngstown 8.6
Dayton 8.4
Kettering 6.0
Mansfield 7.3
Canton 8.1
Akron 6.8
Cuyahoga Falls 5.7

COUNTY RATE
Adams 8.6
Allen 7.3
Ashland 6.8
Ashtabula 7.4
Athens 6.7
Auglaize 5.3
Belmont 6.2
Brown 7.3
Butler 6.2
Carroll 6.8
Champaign 7.0
Clark 6.6
Clermont 5.9
Clinton 5.8
Columbiana 7.2
Coshocton 8.7
Crawford 8.0
Cuyahoga 8.1
Darke 6.3
Defiance 8.9
Delaware 4.9
Erie 5.9
Fairfield 5.7
Fayette 5.9
Franklin 5.7
Fulton 7.6
Gallia 6.6
Geauga 6.3
Greene 6.5
Guernsey 7.3
Hamilton 5.9
Hancock 5.7
Hardin 7.3
Harrison 7.5
Henry 7.9
Highland 7.0
Hocking 7.2
Holmes 4.9
Huron 8.1
Jackson 8.2
Jefferson 7.4
Knox 6.5
Lake 6.9
Lawrence 6.1
Licking 6.1
Logan 6.1
Lorain 7.8
Lucas 7.8
Madison 6.1
Mahoning 7.1
Marion 6.9
Medina 6.8
Meigs 10.0
Mercer 4.9
Miami 6.0
Monroe 8.7
Montgomery 7.2
Morgan 9.9
Morrow 6.3
Muskingum 8.1
Noble 7.7
Ottawa 7.2
Paulding 7.2
Perry 8.1
Pickaway 6.7
Pike 9.3
Portage 6.2
Preble 6.5
Putnam 6.2
Richland 7.1
Ross 7.6
Sandusky 6.2
Scioto 8.2
Seneca 6.8
Shelby 5.4
Stark 6.7
Summit 6.2
Trumbull 7.8
Tuscarawas 6.2
Union 5.4
Van Wert 7.8
Vinton 8.8
Warren 5.6
Washington 5.6
Wayne 5.7
Williams 6.9
Wood 6.6
Wyandot 6.8

[JustRalph]

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7085468&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Asses are puckering all over the Cleveland area tonight. The FBI actually brought agents in from Pittsburgh to assist, so as to keep the Raids quiet and bolster the manpower.

The entire county office building was shut down and the employees sent home while the FBI conducted simultaneous raids on the homes of County executives and employees.

The Election commission is involved and supposedly the 2004 Election records are being seized............ this could be interesting.............

Lots of payoffs and such will be revealed........... including buying land and houses for county execs...........

I wonder if Kucinich is tied up in any of this.......... ...Kucinich country.........you know........? All Hail Cleveland!!!

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/photo_servlet?contentId=7083797&version=1&locale=EN-US&subtype=MIMG&siteId=1016&isP16=true