Toyota Yaris

[DJofSD]

Any one have an opinion, good, bad or indifferent, about the Toyota Yaris?

[Tee]

My opine - the Yaris is too damn small!! :)

I'm currently looking at the Corolla & Matrix.

[JustRalph]

My opine - the Yaris is too damn small!! :)

I'm currently looking at the Corolla & Matrix.

A Pontiac Vibe is the exact same car as a Toyota Matrix.........made in the same factory etc..........and 2G cheaper...........much larger than a Yaris

I have a buddy that bought his wife one and they love it. It is about two years old now...........no problemo

[DJofSD]

Too damn small becuase you're taller than average, or, the vehicle is too small/light?

[Tee]

I thought the vehicle was just too small for my uses - luggage, dog, comfort on long trips etc. I'm not overly tall or wide, so that part didn't come into play. :)

To be honest, I just don't care for the looks of the car. :)

Too damn small becuase you're taller than average, or, the vehicle is too small/light?

[DJofSD]

Looks are a factor -- that's cool.

[Tee]

Ralph,

Base msrp seems to be higher on the Pontiac. Can the Vibe be had for less than the Matrix?

I could always use some GM Card earnings to get the car. Might be worth looking into at the very least.

How bout residual value?



A Pontiac Vibe is the exact same car as a Toyota Matrix.........made in the same factory etc..........and 2G cheaper...........much larger than a Yaris

I have a buddy that bought his wife one and they love it. It is about two years old now...........no problemo

[chickenhead]

we just got a new Matrix last year. Fantastic car, nothing bad to say about it. The amount of room inside is shocking, 34mpg, good driver. Highly recommend.

[chickenhead]

made in the same factory etc

not quite true, Matrix built in Canada, Vibe built in CA. That said, I haven't heard of any quality problems with the vibe.

[Tom]

I am not familiar with the Yaris, but I do recommend you buy American. Toyota is building plants in THIS country, so I would support them over foreign car companies, like GM,Ford, those guys.

[DJofSD]

Tom -- way ahead of you there. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[JustRalph]

not quite true, Matrix built in Canada, Vibe built in CA. That said, I haven't heard of any quality problems with the vibe.

See what happens when you believe the auto dealers.............. of course I was told this two years ago...........I am sure it's the same car though........all you have to do is look at it

[chickenhead]

yes, they are the same car, just built in different plants. And they are both really Toyota Corollas, just with a different body. The innards are just a Corolla.

[spicytomato]

I am not familiar with the Yaris, but I do recommend you buy American. Toyota is building plants in THIS country, so I would support them over foreign car companies, like GM,Ford, those guys.

ooooooohhhhhh what a feeling

14 yrs in driving my little pu truck and no problem at all . ever.

so when they got their new plant up and running

im gonna go hybrid with toyota

coming to america to bring us value and their toyota service team
they take it very seriously if theres a problem with their product

n now with americans getting jobs from them setting up plants
im gonna go hybrid with toyota
with my mileage it should stay on no gas usage

hope others like it as much

if an all american car fits the usage,mileage and value i will do that

good luck and good day

[DJofSD]

14 yrs in driving my little pu truck and no problem at all . ever.

One reason why I'm looking at a Toyota is because I had pretty much the same experience. I drove a 1984 Xtra cab up to 1998, well over 250,000 miles and one major repair on the 22R engine which was the timing belt have been stretched due to age and jumping. I got really lucky with that becuase it happened on the way to work one morning and had only jumped one sprocket. The dealer 1 block from work had it fixed by the afternoon since there was no other damage to the engine.

[Tom]

if an all american car fits the usage,mileage and value i will do that

good luck and good day

If you ever find an all-Americn car, go buy a lottery ticket, because you are walking around lucky! :lol:

[spicytomato]

If you ever find an all-Americn car, go buy a lottery ticket, because you are walking around lucky! :lol:



LOL YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!

anyway i reccommend toyota
and im happy they are comin here
and will give usa people jobs

btw yep im lucky thanks

[andicap]

Bought a 2004 model last month -- about 20K miles -- standard, about 80 HP, but 45-50 mileage.
They are very popular cars here in the UK with a large, kind of cultish fan base. There are fan club sites with bulletin board you can check out.

There is actually a LOT of luggage room if you don't have other passengers because it's a hatchback where you can put down the seats.

Yes it's small, but it drives great so far. Handles well, easy to park, tho a little noisy but that doesn't bother me. The small engine might hamper me -- tho you can buy a larger engine but your gas mileage to definitely suffer. Of course since I'm paying $8 a gallon now the mileage is definitely more important than the acceleration.

It's only a month or so but so far I highly recommend!!

[DJofSD]

kind of cultish fan base

Like the mini-Cooper cult?

[Tee]

DJ,

What did you end up doing?

I just brought a 2008 Matrix home.

[DJofSD]

I'm still researching, especially after attending the Auto Show here in San Diego a few weeks back. That show, BTW, was a little bit of a let down since I could not sit and get a close look at a couple of vehicles including the Toyota Matrix -- strictly look but not up close let along sit behind the wheel. :mad:

The Yaris was at the show and is still in the running. Subaru is out. Honda Fit is now a possibility and a surprise entry made it onto the list, again from the show, and that's the Suzuki Cross-over.

Anything hybrid like the Prius is definitely out. Replacement costs for the 36 volt battery is anywhere between $5-10,000 -- no sh*t.

I was not impressed with most anything from Ford, GM or Saturn, though there was Saturn model that did catch my interest but it was a bit pricey and not that good MPG-wise.

Please do tell us your reasons for the purchase of the Matrix and your inital experiences. Also, how is your vehicle equipped? Do you have any idea of what kind of MPG your getting?

TIA

[Tee]

I'm still researching, especially after attending the Auto Show here in San Diego a few weeks back. That show, BTW, was a little bit of a let down since I could not sit and get a close look at a couple of vehicles including the Toyota Matrix -- strictly look but not up close let along sit behind the wheel. :mad:

The Yaris was at the show and is still in the running. Subaru is out. Honda Fit is now a possibility and a surprise entry made it onto the list, again from the show, and that's the Suzuki Cross-over.

Anything hybrid like the Prius is definitely out. Replacement costs for the 36 volt battery is anywhere between $5-10,000 -- no sh*t.

I was not impressed with most anything from Ford, GM or Saturn, though there was Saturn model that did catch my interest but it was a bit pricey and not that good MPG-wise.

Please do tell us your reasons for the purchase of the Matrix and your inital experiences. Also, how is your vehicle equipped? Do you have any idea of what kind of MPG your getting?

TIA

I looked at the hybrid stuff & like you found the potential replacement costs too damn high!! I also couldn't see the price difference between the str8 4 cylinder & the hybrid. Couldn't possibly save that much in gas mileage to cover the extra money spent.

Anyway I decided on a hatchback. I like the fact that the rear seats fold flat in the Matrix for a plenty of cargo room. I can fit all the golf clubs & luggage I want in this car. I think my lab will like laying down in the back of this one as well once I get it decked out for him.

Nothing fancy about the way the car is equipped. Base model with Cruise Control, All Weather Guard Package with Rear Window Wiper, Power Windows & Locks, Shift Activated Auto Door Locks & Remote Keyless Entry.

Gas tank is only a little over 13 gallons which is about 5 gallons smaller than the previous Toyota Solara. 18 gallons + & only 20 mpg for the most part was a good deal of cash. About $50 every time I filled it up.

I'll have to get back to you on the gas mileage part. Range is 21-29 city & 26 to 36 highway.

This will be the fifth Toyota product in my household. Have yet to have one in overnight for a mechanical breakdown(knock on wood.):)

Got a decent price on the sucker as well with the rebates/incentives that are being currently offered.

[DanG]

Sorry I can’t offer a Toyota opinion, but I can’t resist the forum to mention two cars I have knowledge of.

My x has a Mitsubishi Eclipse and if anyone is thinking about getting one…Stop now and do NOT pass go. It’s a piece of crap in all the meaningful categories except appearance, acceleration and sound system.

We did get my daughter a 2008 Mazda MX-5 Miata and where very pleased with it. Car & driver rated it highly and she loves it.

[wonatthewire1]

We picked up a Scion xD last month

Sits on the same platform as the Yaris but has a 130 HP engine - you sit up high in it. Getting 31 MPG so far and it has a much bigger engine than a Fit but only 1 MPG less mileage.

Decent driver for the 'burbs; ipod/mp3 jack and the back seats move back for more legroom as well as fold down.

http://www.scion.com/#xDPhotoGallery

[Ron]

Would a real man be caught dead driving a Yaris?

[DJofSD]

Would a real man be caught dead driving a Yaris?

Why do you ask? Are you an eater of quiche?

[chickenhead]

we average around 34mpg with our Matrix, that's without too much stop and go.

very practical car. we fit 4 dining room chairs in the back of it with the seats down...for a small car it has huge cargo space.

[chickenhead]

We picked up a Scion xD last month

Sits on the same platform as the Yaris but has a 130 HP engine - you sit up high in it. Getting 31 MPG so far and it has a much bigger engine than a Fit but only 1 MPG less mileage.

Decent driver for the 'burbs; ipod/mp3 jack and the back seats move back for more legroom as well as fold down.

http://www.scion.com/#xDPhotoGallery

I like that car, you get a lot of bang for your buck.

edit: whoops. nevermind. I meant the tC. never seen an xD.

[cmoore]

Don't buy new..By a used honda..3 or 4 years old with less then 60k miles..You can't go wrong..


Any one have an opinion, good, bad or indifferent, about the Toyota Yaris?

[DJofSD]

Don't buy new..By a used honda..3 or 4 years old with less then 60k miles..You can't go wrong..

My brother purchased a used Honda a few years ago. The amount he paid was not much of a bargin. If I'm going to pay a significant percentage of the original price for a used car, I'll pay the difference for new.

[cmoore]

My brother purchased a used Honda a few years ago. The amount he paid was not much of a bargin. If I'm going to pay a significant percentage of the original price for a used car, I'll pay the difference for new.

New cars depreciate way too much..I'll never buy new..

[chickenhead]

I looked at used Yota trucks when I was buying, the price differential was almost nil. For domestic, absolutely.

[wonatthewire1]

I like that car, you get a lot of bang for your buck.

edit: whoops. nevermind. I meant the tC. never seen an xD.


xD replaced the smaller xA

the engine will be used in the revised 2009 Corolla - this xD was badged as the Toyota Ist in Japan

[JustRalph]

Just bought a Honda Accord this week. 2008 new one. Looks just like this one except we bought the base model. http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/

She wanted a five speed. The base model was the only one with a stick. It comes with tons of stuff standard. Power Windows and locks, Tire pressure monitoring and a nice radio/cd that does MP3's and WMV's right out of windows. I got about 250 songs on one disk. It also has the connection for your Ipod or whatever other player you want. It has Tilt/Telescoping Wheel and of course A/C etc. Sticker was $20,995


We traded the wife's GMC Envoy. Let's just say trade in value was horrendous. It was a 2005 model with 40k miles.

Interesting note from Tom's posts earlier in this thread. About where cars are made etc. this is from the sticker on the Honda.

http://www.justralph.com/sticker_honda.jpg

I had to support the home town area in Ohio.........Marysville is right outside of Columbus. Actually she just liked the look and feel of the car much more than the Toyota's. I was leaning toward a Camry, but she liked the Accord better and Momma gets what she wants :lol: I must be Uxorious

[cmoore]

[QUOTE=J We traded the wife's GMC Envoy. Let's just say trade in value was horrendous. It was a 2005 model with 40k miles.

Did you think of trying to sell the Envoy yourself? Here's how a dealership tried to rip me off back in 2003..I had a mazda b2000 extended cab truck. Very clean. I wanted something bigger and an automatic. I was looking at a 99 Ford explorer. Went inside to start the negotiations. I thought we were on the same page after about 15 minutes of talking. That was stupid to think. LOL!!! The salesman comes back for me to sign the paperwork. Final price said 15k which included me trading in my mazda truck.. I looked at the salesman and said, "are you out of your frickin mind". Your only giving me 3k for my truck. He started to ramble on about they had to inspect it and do this and that. I said bs, that deal isn't going to happen. I'll sell the truck myself..I told him I would have financing for the explorer through the credit union. So they let me drive the 99 explorer off the lot for 10.5k plus taxes, etc. My financing fell through. So a week went by and the dealership finally got financing for me but for a lower final price. The banks wouldn't loan me the price that they sold it to me for. I ended up getting the explore for 9.7K. $800 bucks less then when I drove it off the lot. How about that shiit...LOL!!! I ended up detailing my mazda truck. Parked in my yard for about 2 weeks and sold it for $7,200. $4200 more then what those azzholes were going to give me for it. I payed off the loan I had on the truck and had $1,800 left over. I will never ever trade in a vehicle. I will never ever get my car fixed at a dealership either. When i think of a conman. Salesman come to mind. Dealerships are nothing but money sucking vultures. They will try to rob you with a smile on thier face.

[JustRalph]

[QUOTE=J We traded the wife's GMC Envoy. Let's just say trade in value was horrendous. It was a 2005 model with 40k miles.

Did you think of trying to sell the Envoy yourself? Here's how a dealership tried to rip me off back in 2003..I had a mazda b2000 extended cab truck. Very clean. I wanted something bigger and an automatic. I was looking at a 99 Ford explorer. Went inside to start the negotiations. I thought we were on the same page after about 15 minutes of talking. That was stupid to think. LOL!!! The salesman comes back for me to sign the paperwork. Final price said 15k which included me trading in my mazda truck.. I looked at the salesman and said, "are you out of your frickin mind". Your only giving me 3k for my truck. He started to ramble on about they had to inspect it and do this and that. I said bs, that deal isn't going to happen. I'll sell the truck myself..I told him I would have financing for the explorer through the credit union. So they let me drive the 99 explorer off the lot for 10.5k plus taxes, etc. My financing fell through. So a week went by and the dealership finally got financing for me but for a lower final price. The banks wouldn't loan me the price that they sold it to me for. I ended up getting the explore for 9.7K. $800 bucks less then when I drove it off the lot. How about that shiit...LOL!!! I ended up detailing my mazda truck. Parked in my yard for about 2 weeks and sold it for $7,200. $4200 more then what those azzholes were going to give me for it. I payed off the loan I had on the truck and had $1,800 left over. I will never ever trade in a vehicle. I will never ever get my car fixed at a dealership either. When i think of a conman. Salesman come to mind. Dealerships are nothing but money sucking vultures. They will try to rob you with a smile on thier face.

been there, done that. I have sold my own before. But I checked and the difference in prices in our area was negligible. Plus, there was a glut of envoy's in the area. Tons of them for sale. Many with much less mileage. So i let them have it. It didn't hurt me that bad. Plus, it needed brakes/tires and a few more minor items............not to mention it had an Ohio registration, I am in North Carolina for a while longer etc. I would have had to deal with that crap. Buyers don't want to have to deal with it either........all in all........it was easier to take a lower price and let the dealership deal with the paperwork

[samyn on the green]

The market for compact hatchbacks is surprisingly limited in North America. Too many guzzlers out there. Hybrids are too expensive and too hard to fix so they where out of the question. My ideal car would have been a four door hatchback with a gas sipping Diesel engine but the short sighted American government outlawed normals diesels last year. I refuse to buy a Japanese rive burner even if they are made in America so the Yaris/Matrix/Subaru Impreza and Mazda 3 was out of the picture for me.

What was left was the Ford Focus, the Pontiac Vibe, VW Rabbit and the Saturn Astra. My experiences with Fords are terrible and Ford canceled the hatchback for 2008 so they were out of the picture too. The VW is an expensive bitch to repair and is made in Mexico so that was scratched from the entries too. I was down to the Vibe and the Astra.

We went with the Saturn Astra. This choice satisfied my nationalistic need for an American car with my European car fetish. The Saturn is a German design which means quality engineering and quality workmanship. This GM car is made in Belgium and shipped over. This car has good fuel economy 34MPG and a premium quality feel feel. The door seal has a load thud when it closes like a Benz or BMW when closed. The 5 speed gear box is tight and sporty. It is a proven success of a car, sort of like a BMW for the price of a Chevy. The Astra is the #2 seller in Europe as it is marketed as a Vauxhall, Opel and Holden around the world. I just hope that since the Astra is made in Europe it does not become a parts orphan in the future.

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/3720/astra17gs.jpg

[samyn on the green]

It took over two months to get a Saturn Astra but we finally took delivery last week.

The wait was long and when I finally noticed one in the local Saturn dealers lot in mid- January we stopped by and drove a slush box Astra that they had on hand. The slush-box was okay but the dealer would not let us drive far so I could not get much of a impression on the car. Also the dealer would not let us test drive the 5 speed. Nevertheless we wanted one anyway. The stock on hand was thin and I wanted a 5 door absolutely loaded, the dealer had only stripped down XE models on hand. So we put in an order for the car we wanted and we waited and waited. Two months went by without even a call from the dealer. When we called to inquire about what was taking so long they were some somewhat nasty with us and informed us about how screwed up the Astra deliveries have been from Belgium.

We ended up going to another local dealer who seemed to be on their game. They let us test drive the 5 speed and it was light years ahead of the slush box. This dealer hustled and found a car almost exactly like we ordered at a dealer a few hundred miles away. After waiting over two months this other dealer was able to have our car here in 3 days. We canceled the original order and purchased from the 2nd dealer. The car has a 5 speed, silver paint, sunroof, leather, heated seats, performance handling and 17 inch five star alloy rims.

After taking delivery of the Astra it has actually exceeded every expectation. The fit and finish of this car is suburb and the materials are exceptional for a compact car. Close the door there is a thud which says quality. Every knob, and door is quality built. This car feels more like a Luxury car than a economy car. The truth is is that this is a small luxury car a marriage of quality and economy. There is talk about the hard to learn radio and complicated controls. Yes it did take 1 or 2 days to become familiar with the radio. Anyone that can not figure the radio out must be so technology challenged that they have to call their grandchild to use a microwave oven. Another thing that is unique with the radio is that the time is only shown in 24 hour format, me and my wife work with the 24 time format all day for many years so this is not a problem for us. If some person is too stupid to figure out the 24 hour clock well perhaps the Saturn is doing them a favor teaching them something new. There is only one cup holder for the front seat which is no big deal for us as we purchased a automobile and not a dining room table.


The handling is tremendous and this thing makes one catlike move after another when driving around the local mountainous terrain. The car is sporty in every situation and as nimble as a cat. This is a drivers car and it a ton of fun to drive. Before I we accepted delivery of the Astra we heard much talk about it being slow and underpowered. I do not agree, the engine is very smooth for a four banger and provides adequate acceleration in every situation. We prefer economy over power and this engine is a good compromise. We average 36 MPG on the highway and 24 in the city.


Not is all perfect though the Airbag sensor light has been on since we took delivery of the car. The car will have to return to the dealer to have that addressed. We hope that this problem can be quickly fixed. The dealer should have addressed this before delivering the car.

Overall the Astra has exceeded our expectations. It is a exciting little car with quality and a unique personality. It is a shame that we have not seen one on the road except for the one we purchased. This Astra is the best kept secret in compact cars. This vehicle puts every Toyota, Honda and Mazda to shame. However I am not so sure the car will be a success here. It may just be too much car for an American public obsessed with cup holders and too stupid to figure out the 24 hour clock. It is really a shame because the masses are missing out on a great car named Astra. Whoever at GM decided to import the Astra to the States is a good person and I thank them for letting us enjoy this car here in the States.

[robert99]

Glad you are so pleased with the Astra - they have very successful in Europe for many years.

Try
http://www.astraownersclub.com/vb/

if you get owner lonely in USA.

[wonatthewire1]

It took over two months to get a Saturn Astra but we finally took delivery last week.

The wait was long and when I finally noticed one in the local Saturn dealers lot in mid- January we stopped by and drove a slush box Astra that they had on hand. The slush-box was okay but the dealer would not let us drive far so I could not get much of a impression on the car. Also the dealer would not let us test drive the 5 speed. Nevertheless we wanted one anyway. The stock on hand was thin and I wanted a 5 door absolutely loaded, the dealer had only stripped down XE models on hand. So we put in an order for the car we wanted and we waited and waited. Two months went by without even a call from the dealer. When we called to inquire about what was taking so long they were some somewhat nasty with us and informed us about how screwed up the Astra deliveries have been from Belgium.

We ended up going to another local dealer who seemed to be on their game. They let us test drive the 5 speed and it was light years ahead of the slush box. This dealer hustled and found a car almost exactly like we ordered at a dealer a few hundred miles away. After waiting over two months this other dealer was able to have our car here in 3 days. We canceled the original order and purchased from the 2nd dealer. The car has a 5 speed, silver paint, sunroof, leather, heated seats, performance handling and 17 inch five star alloy rims.

After taking delivery of the Astra it has actually exceeded every expectation. The fit and finish of this car is suburb and the materials are exceptional for a compact car. Close the door there is a thud which says quality. Every knob, and door is quality built. This car feels more like a Luxury car than a economy car. The truth is is that this is a small luxury car a marriage of quality and economy. There is talk about the hard to learn radio and complicated controls. Yes it did take 1 or 2 days to become familiar with the radio. Anyone that can not figure the radio out must be so technology challenged that they have to call their grandchild to use a microwave oven. Another thing that is unique with the radio is that the time is only shown in 24 hour format, me and my wife work with the 24 time format all day for many years so this is not a problem for us. If some person is too stupid to figure out the 24 hour clock well perhaps the Saturn is doing them a favor teaching them something new. There is only one cup holder for the front seat which is no big deal for us as we purchased a automobile and not a dining room table.


The handling is tremendous and this thing makes one catlike move after another when driving around the local mountainous terrain. The car is sporty in every situation and as nimble as a cat. This is a drivers car and it a ton of fun to drive. Before I we accepted delivery of the Astra we heard much talk about it being slow and underpowered. I do not agree, the engine is very smooth for a four banger and provides adequate acceleration in every situation. We prefer economy over power and this engine is a good compromise. We average 36 MPG on the highway and 24 in the city.


Not is all perfect though the Airbag sensor light has been on since we took delivery of the car. The car will have to return to the dealer to have that addressed. We hope that this problem can be quickly fixed. The dealer should have addressed this before delivering the car.

Overall the Astra has exceeded our expectations. It is a exciting little car with quality and a unique personality. It is a shame that we have not seen one on the road except for the one we purchased. This Astra is the best kept secret in compact cars. This vehicle puts every Toyota, Honda and Mazda to shame. However I am not so sure the car will be a success here. It may just be too much car for an American public obsessed with cup holders and too stupid to figure out the 24 hour clock. It is really a shame because the masses are missing out on a great car named Astra. Whoever at GM decided to import the Astra to the States is a good person and I thank them for letting us enjoy this car here in the States.


Good luck with the new car - they are nice looking but definitely not made in the US - as Robert said, they've been in Europe for a few years. Made by Opel in Belgium and I believe some of the components are manufactured in Hungary. Nothing wrong with it - but it is following the same road map that GM used with the Aura.

The car is badged as a Vauxhall as well ;) and the Australian version is a Holden. We decided on the Scion because of the gas mileage and the history on Toyotas - Opels used to have a lot of problems with body integrity in the 70's and 80's (Opel Kadette)

We had the same problems with dealerships, the one that is only 3 miles from me was completely inept so we went to the one in the town where we both work - about 15 miles away and were taken care of without a problem. We waited about 10 days for the silver one.

[samyn on the green]

Good luck with the Scion, Toyota does have an excellent reputation for quality so I suspect your Scion will provide you with many years of reliable service. I will not purchase a new car from a non-domestic manufacturer so Toyota was not considered in my house. Yes the Saturn is assembled in Belgium but it is a GM product and GM is as American as apple pie. One moment in the Astra and it is hard to realize anything other than that the car is a quality product. With all of the work going to third world sweatshops I have faith that an American company can still make something of quality. Perhaps my ignorance of the 1970's and 1980's Opel quality has put me in a bad spot but perhaps that is ancient history and the Astra will provide me many years of reliable service.


It is too bad you did not get the opportunity to test drive an Astra, they are really a drivers car with exceptional handling. The Astra is a blast to drive. The interior is also filled with luxury in a smaller economic package. I suspect that If you drove the Astra you would have made the GM car your choice over the Toyota.


The main problem with selling the Astra in America is that people that want the advanced handling of the Astra and the luxury of the Astra are not going to look at a compact hatchback from Saturn. People that want a nice hatchback are going to look to Japan or VW. If I was to have bought a Toyota I would have felt like a traitor. Sure the Saturn is built in Belgium but I have to walk the walk as an American and invest in American companies.

Good luck with the new car - they are nice looking but definitely not made in the US - as Robert said, they've been in Europe for a few years. Made by Opel in Belgium and I believe some of the components are manufactured in Hungary. Nothing wrong with it - but it is following the same road map that GM used with the Aura.

The car is badged as a Vauxhall as well ;) and the Australian version is a Holden. We decided on the Scion because of the gas mileage and the history on Toyotas - Opels used to have a lot of problems with body integrity in the 70's and 80's (Opel Kadette)

We had the same problems with dealerships, the one that is only 3 miles from me was completely inept so we went to the one in the town where we both work - about 15 miles away and were taken care of without a problem. We waited about 10 days for the silver one.