The end is near.

[DJofSD]

The glut of oil has apparently already peaked. It's all down hill from here. Nothing but tough times ahead and an increasing likelyhood of nuclear war. Here's a link to the overview. (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/)

BTW, some speculate this is why Bush Co. has bought a large ranch in Paraguay.

[King Ritchie]

The glut of oil has apparently already peaked. It's all down hill from here. Nothing but tough times ahead and an increasing likelyhood of nuclear war. Here's a link to the overview. (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/)

BTW, some speculate this is why Bush Co. has bought a large ranch in Paraguay.

Monday, just another typical day in the life of a "doom and gloom" lib.

[DJofSD]

Monday, just another typical day in the life of a "doom and gloom" lib.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You obviously can not separate the message from the messenger.

[Marshall Bennett]

The glut of oil has apparently already peaked. It's all down hill from here. Nothing but tough times ahead and an increasing likelyhood of nuclear war. Here's a link to the overview. (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/)

BTW, some speculate this is why Bush Co. has bought a large ranch in Paraguay.
Perhaps he'll rent me a bunker on his new ranch !!!

[JustRalph]

Do you know how valuable horses are gonna be? :lol:

[46zilzal]

When I was researching historical websites on horses I came across an amazing stat. When they were the major means of transportation, the amount of horse dung removed from downtown streets was staggering. EVERY DAY tons of if!

[DJofSD]

EVERY DAY tons of if!

Having mucked out many times over the years, I do believe there is not any more truthful statement!

[delayjf]

DJSD,
Speaking of Conspiracies, I had a guy tell me that he believes the “boys from Texas” set up Gray Davis (energy scandal) so as to eliminate him as a Presidential candidate.

[spicytomato]

have mr president :mad: keep the incentives to get off fossil fuels
active in the options, this year we at our home will be free
of oil burner for the home, electric water boiler is coming in
line to heat our baseboard heating home, also we are allowed
to log on to our dominion resources and opt out of fossil fuel
and neuclear fuel and opt for electric from wind power:kiss:

also available in texas **
we recycle, freecycle, and drive fuel efficient vehicles till we
trade them in for hybrids or electric for our needs is fine;)

you know you got options that include more than just getting
angry about the way things are going

live greener on your own turf
shop from local farmers
both do alot to lower costs locally to communities

and get active in community awareness
no reason all these malls and huge walmarts and such
cannot be self sufficient in energy
they have some already up and running
no reason all large businesses on huge property shouldnt
make thier own power,, :bang:

but ofcourse thats my own opinion

got a home??? look for dsire incentives for it
and then the irs site for tax rebates on energy improvements

good luck

[ddog]

Monday, just another typical day in the life of a "doom and gloom" lib.


Even if so , I have never understood the conservative desire it would seem , since NO plan I have seen from that side including increased drilling would make much of a difference, to just wait around and hope that some nutjob or crazy Sheik doesn't decide to put the squeeze on us via oil in a crunch.

You know that the transfer of assests under the control of gvts who are not our friends via oil costs is not something I look on with a kindly eye.

[PaceAdvantage]

The glut of oil has apparently already peaked. It's all down hill from here. Nothing but tough times ahead and an increasing likelyhood of nuclear war. Here's a link to the overview. (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/)

BTW, some speculate this is why Bush Co. has bought a large ranch in Paraguay.Did you notice all the books for sale on the left hand side of that website? What are all these cottage industries going to do once Bush is out of office?

[PaceAdvantage]

to just wait around and hope that some nutjob or crazy Sheik doesn't decide to put the squeeze on us via oil in a crunch.Won't happen, unless of course the world decides that money isn't important anymore.

[ddog]

Won't happen, unless of course the world decides that money isn't important anymore.

seems that may have happened in the past for certain causes.
they don't have to throw it in our face to make it effective nonetheless.
dictators are not rational actors.

[spicytomato]

locally myself and many friends are getting off oil and
moving to wind power

now if just a few stores and malls decided to go solar and wind power
the fossil fueled electric co would be greatly reduced
whole foods and walmart self suffiecient centers are a model
for this system
locally our farmers market have gone solar and wind power

if just if, a few of the larger companies ( and they get subsidy to
change over, govt gives them the money to do it) change over

it would greatly make a difference
it would dwarf the california desert wind power

there is a sheik that is worth billions
not from oil at all , but because he provides wind power!!
yes no oil at all, windpower !! made his money

now imagine all those malls *(huge properties)
covered in solar and wind power

kinda makes you go hhhmmm

my home will be equipped with our own wind turbine
and we have signed on for local windpower
also we are going no fossil fuels

others i know will do the same
i will make even more people aware that heating oil cost
could be 4000 in colder climates
for our baseboard heat , we will be off oil and use electric
works for steam heat too
one time cost change 3,000. and on dsire n IRS sites
you can find rebates and tax incentives (good ones)
we coupled it with energy effiecient mortagage loan product
and it comes off taxes too (2x the advantage)
then we took the extra money and started a money market account
it makes money while the mortgage comes off the taxes
now off oil we dont have that cost, only electric

oh and since your getting all that rebate and tax incentives
if your wind or solar system makes more energy than you use
the electric co pays you for it
so far that payment is tax free
stick it in a ira account and you got tax free money that grows
tax free, there ya go!!

and last one on this freebie tour
you can get more on your paycheck to cover the slightly
higer mortgage by claiming more on the dependant line
because you would be getting that back anyway
do the numbers , check it out , its very very legal
and very very money smart

your money grows, you get rebates and tax incentives


and you get off oil and higher priced electric

you decide

complain or do something

happy thanksgiving

[JustRalph]

all this crap about wind and solar drives me nuts. It just doesn't do the job............... unless you want to fill every piece of empty space with a Windmill and Solar panels..........it just won't cut it.............the vast amounts of electricity needed to run the grid right now is so far outside the bounds of what solar and wind can provide.........it is nothing but a pipe dream.

[DJofSD]

unless of course the world decides that money isn't important anymore.

It's not quiet that -- unless the world decides that the U.S dollar isn't important anymore. And that is what is happening now.

[46zilzal]

One could have said that about televisions in the 40's computers in the 60's. Things change, well to most of us they do.

Since I started practice, laparotomies (let's open em up and look around) have fallen off to nothing since the influx of the "unheard of" technology: Cat Scan and the MRI.

Things change.

[spicytomato]

all this crap about wind and solar drives me nuts. It just doesn't do the job............... unless you want to fill every piece of empty space with a Windmill and Solar panels..........it just won't cut it.............the vast amounts of electricity needed to run the grid right now is so far outside the bounds of what solar and wind can provide.........it is nothing but a pipe dream.

its a suggestion and a start

saturn is green they are self sufficient
so is whole foods industry and many others

its one thing
just one thing

so many other things can be done to ease it

and doing something is better than doin nuthin
but complaining

also, btw , we were to have a new plant here
for the production of ethanol but ofcourse
not one person wants it in thier back yard so to speak
not even with the additional jobs it would bring

but keep complaining

and soon research shows the ethanol can be made
from cellulose( left over plant materials)
instead of high priced corn an soy

also in the works at the college near by
is a newly derived fuel from algae, plain ole algae

now you know the oil guys gonna have them youngsters
on some hit list

imagine all the world running on fuel from sea or farmed algae

there are possibilities with science and cooperation from
us people, but lets not dream okay

lets just complain about it

[PaceAdvantage]

It's not quiet that -- unless the world decides that the U.S dollar isn't important anymore. And that is what is happening now.Oh, I'm sure the world (especially the Middle Eastern oil powers) will gladly accept American dollars in return for OIL. That's my point. They're not going to cut off their nose to spite their face by turning off the oil spigot to the U.S.A.

[spicytomato]

ofcourse the entire us cannot do without oil
however we can cut the usage waaaaaaaaay down

the following is stuff done by myself and friends
to keep the landfills free of too much junk and also to
reduce our own usage of foriegn oil

its also money smart

for those of you owning older deisel even new ones
they can be fitted with a kit for 800 dollars currently
to make the truck car tractor bus run on regular oil
yes vegetable oil from costco, no saudi at all

and better yet, you can collect oil from friendly resturaunts
and filter it in the back yard (my friend has filter in back of
vw bug van) and feed that to the tank, (she no longer pays
for any fuel at all , shes got that many resturaunts in order)

she collects wood from freecycle and craiglist from people
who have thier trees cut down and topped off, she uses that
to warm her home in the cooler weather in wood stoves
shes also on windpower in the local power company offers

again no saudi oil

and good for the environment is the windpower and cutting
back on the stuff goin the the landfills

we compost for our property and buy organic local produce
it costs bunches of money to get bananas from venezuela
just cause they are off season
and pesitcides arent good for anyone and cost much money
to buy , transport and filter out of the water when it makes
it to the waste management in storm water

buying locally grown produce supports our farmers and families
and organically grown eggs , chickens, turkey , duck is easy to find

soo much more but it makes some people grumpy to tell them
quit yer grumpin and do sumptin

theres a texas wind power program that currently produces
4% of local needs for power and growing as people sign on
solar only provides what you can store or use its okay
wind and water and whatever take up the slack
wind works in as little as 3mph winds day and night

oh btw the local jiffy lube is fitted with filters so they use
every drop of oil from oil changes to heat their business
there is a very lucrative opportunity for the person who
decides to collect used oil from companies that dont reuse it

the local newspaper will take used oil from oil changes to also
use it for heating the huge building

lowering the constant feeding on the teats of saudi oil
should be a daily way of life for all who can

btw even newer trucks and deisel powered vehicles can be
fitted to run on veggie oil, and never stop at a gas station again
just the grocery store if need be

happy thanksgiving yall

[Secretariat]

Interesting UPI article:

Forecast: U.S. dollar could plunge 90 pct
Published: Nov. 19, 2007 at 2:16 PM

RHINEBECK, N.Y., Nov. 19 (UPI) -- A financial crisis will likely send the U.S. dollar into a free fall of as much as 90 percent and gold soaring to $2,000 an ounce, a trends researcher said.

"We are going to see economic times the likes of which no living person has seen," Trends Research Institute Director Gerald Celente said, forecasting a "Panic of 2008."

"The bigger they are, the harder they'll fall," he said in an interview with New York's Hudson Valley Business Journal.

Celente -- who forecast the subprime mortgage financial crisis and the dollar's decline a year ago and gold's current rise in May -- told the newspaper the subprime mortgage meltdown was just the first "small, high-risk segment of the market" to collapse.

Derivative dealers, hedge funds, buyout firms and other market players will also unravel, he said.

Massive corporate losses, such as those recently posted by Citigroup Inc. and General Motors Corp., will also be fairly common "for some time to come," he said.

[Tom]

Curious, do you understand what this is saying, or where you just told to post it here?:lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Derivative dealers, hedge funds, buyout firms and other market players will also unravel, he said.I've been hearing about the impending doom from derivatives for years now....years and years....and still, nothing. Kind of like those perp walks you promised us....

Chicken little, chicken little, the SKY is falling....

Hey, I have a good idea. The stock market FORETELLS ALL. It always, always does....if one is in doubt, one only need to look towards the stock market to see where we are headed as a nation.......some examples:

Here is how the S&P acted in the one year period leading up to the 9-11 terrorist attacks....a clear downtrend:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/images/911.gif

And here is the S&P 500 over the most recent year leading up to today....sure doesn't seem like it's forecasting the end of the world....

http://www.paceadvantage.com/images/now.gif

Just something to think about....

[dav4463]

"I don't care about pollution. I'm an air-conditioned gypsy. That's my solution. Watch the police and the taxman miss me, I'm mobile."

[hcap]

Originally Posted by JustRalph
all this crap about wind and solar drives me nuts. It just doesn't do the job............... unless you want to fill every piece of empty space with a Windmill and Solar panels..........it just won't cut it.............the vast amounts of electricity needed to run the grid right now is so far outside the bounds of what solar and wind can provide.........it is nothing but a pipe dream.There is a lot of room for alternatives. Particularly as efficiencies increase. Remember as a percentage of all energy sources, alternatives are hardly supported. As I said before take 1/2 trillion $ that we have wasted on war and defense spending and put it into this kind of technology.....

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0114_050114_solarplastic.html

"Spray-On Solar-Power Cells Are True Breakthrough

Click here to find out more!
Stefan Lovgren
for National Geographic News
January 14, 2005

Scientists have invented a plastic solar cell that can turn the sun's power into electrical energy, even on a cloudy day.

The plastic material uses nanotechnology and contains the first solar cells able to harness the sun's invisible, infrared rays. The breakthrough has led theorists to predict that plastic solar cells could one day become five times more efficient than current solar cell technology.

...."The sun that reaches the Earth's surface delivers 10,000 times more energy than we consume," said Ted Sargent, an electrical and computer engineering professor at the University of Toronto. Sargent is one of the inventors of the new plastic material.

"If we could cover 0.1 percent of the Earth's surface with [very efficient] large-area solar cells," he said, "we could in principle replace all of our energy habits with a source of power which is clean and renewable."

[hcap]

5 billion pounds to supply Europe with 1/6th of it's electrical.
Imagine what the trillion or so we've wasted in Iraq could do under a real leader.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/02/renewableenergy.solarpower

How Africa's desert sun can bring Europe power

A £5bn solar power plan, backed by a Jordanian prince, could provide the EU with a sixth of its electricity needs - and cut carbon emissions

Europe is considering plans to spend more than £5bn on a string of giant solar power stations along the Mediterranean desert shores of northern Africa and the Middle East.

More than a hundred of the generators, each fitted with thousands of huge mirrors, would generate electricity to be transmitted by undersea cable to Europe and then distributed across the continent to European Union member nations, including Britain.

Billions of watts of power could be generated this way, enough to provide Europe with a sixth of its electricity needs and to allow it to make significant cuts in its carbon emissions. At the same time, the stations would be used as desalination plants to provide desert countries with desperately needed supplies of fresh water.

[The Judge]

Kind of going along with what Hcap posted about spray-on power cells I would be interested in what rumors or facts members have heard about alternative enery that we might not be familar with. I will start off with, a car that can run off WATER based on a new tape of engine part of the rumor is that General Motors bought the patent and won't produce the car.

[Tom]

Should be easy yo check out - patents are public.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Interesting UPI article:

Forecast: U.S. dollar could plunge 90 pct
Published: Nov. 19, 2007 at 2:16 PM

RHINEBECK, N.Y., Nov. 19 (UPI) -- A financial crisis will likely send the U.S. dollar into a free fall of as much as 90 percent and gold soaring to $2,000 an ounce, a trends researcher said.

"We are going to see economic times the likes of which no living person has seen," Trends Research Institute Director Gerald Celente said, forecasting a "Panic of 2008."

****"The bigger they are, the harder they'll fall,"**** he said in an interview with New York's Hudson Valley Business Journal.

Celente -- who forecast the subprime mortgage financial crisis and the dollar's decline a year ago and gold's current rise in May -- told the newspaper the subprime mortgage meltdown was just the first "small, high-risk segment of the market" to collapse.

Derivative dealers, hedge funds, buyout firms and other market players will also unravel, he said.

Massive corporate losses, such as those recently posted by Citigroup Inc. and General Motors Corp., will also be fairly common "for some time to come," he said.
Must be true- that's what I hear the trend forecasters said about the dinosaurs!LOL!!

[toetoe]

I am SO sick of the adjective 'green.' Often life is brown, gray, even black. The pipedreamers of the Bobby Kennedy/Chicken Little Academy are very Machiavellian in their "Something must be done !!" whining. Just try not to mewl excessively, and do your part in your local habitat. Recycle orange juice boxes if it pleases you to do so. Buy coffee in paper cups or go without. What EVER.

[Tom]

Where does this green come from, anyways?
The Earth is BLUE!

Risiing oceans mean more blue, which is what the planet is.
Bring on warm weather!

Blue = Good
Green = Bad

[46zilzal]

Where does this green come from, anyways?
The Earth is BLUE!

Rising oceans mean more blue, which is what the planet is.
Bring on warm weather!

Spoken like a guy with no photographic experience: hue changes with distance.

[hcap]

Where does this green come from, anyways?
The Earth is BLUE!

Risiing oceans mean more blue, which is what the planet is.
Bring on warm weather!

Blue = Good
Green = Bad

How about those shades of grey?...

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2007/08/10/pollution_4646_360x125.jpg

Cough, cough

[hcap]

Should be easy yo check out - patents are public.
Patent Pendings are not. Nor are all promising severely underfunded research projects. Throw a few hundred billion in that direction and more will make news

[Tom]

Spoken like a guy with no photographic experience: hue changes with distance.

Hue don't say?
How many photos have your taken from outer space? :rolleyes:

Now you're telling me that the Pacific Ocean is green?

[DJofSD]

He sees green alligators and long neck geese,
some humpty back camels and some chimpanzees,
some rats,.....

[Tom]

:lol::lol::lol:

[hcap]

More on the spray-on ink jet technique for producing solar cells.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/technology/18solar.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"Nanosolar, a heavily financed Silicon Valley start-up whose backers include Google’s co-founders, plans to announce Tuesday that it has begun selling its innovative solar panels, which are made using a technique that is being held out as the future of solar power manufacturing.

That new technique involves using a device very much like an ink-jet printer to lay down the components of a photovoltaic cell onto a thin sheet of aluminum. The cells are much thinner, lighter, and much less fragile than older silicon cells. The result is solar energy that is expected to cost around $1 a watt for the raw panels, and $2 a watt for an installed system. At that price, solar power is directly competitive with the cheapest and most polluting of fossil fuels.

According to the Energy Department, building a new coal plant costs about $2.1 a watt, plus the cost of fuel and emissions, he said.

The process developed by Nanosolar not only allows them to produce cheap solar panels, it allows them to create them much faster than the more delicate panels produced in the past. Even so, their first 12 months of production is already sold out."

.................................................. ....................

Private company with some heavy private investors but without much Government alternate energy funds.

Increase to alternate energy investment to 500 billion, and we will be off most fossil fuels in under 10 years

[hcap]

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html

Stanford's nanowire battery holds 10 times the charge of existing ones

BY DAN STOBER

Stanford researchers have found a way to use silicon nanowires to reinvent the rechargeable lithium-ion batteries that power laptops, iPods, video cameras, cell phones, and countless other devices.

The new version, developed through research led by Yi Cui, assistant professor of materials science and engineering, produces 10 times the amount of electricity of existing lithium-ion, known as Li-ion, batteries. A laptop that now runs on battery for two hours could operate for 20 hours, a boon to ocean-hopping business travelers.

"It's not a small improvement," Cui said. "It's a revolutionary development."

The breakthrough is described in a paper, "High-performance lithium battery anodes using silicon nanowires," published online Dec. 16 in Nature Nanotechnology, written by Cui, his graduate chemistry student Candace Chan and five others.

The greatly expanded storage capacity could make Li-ion batteries attractive to electric car manufacturers. Cui suggested that they could also be used in homes or offices to store electricity generated by rooftop solar panels.

[Tom]

Rochester, NY just OK'd spending $84,000 on solar panels for the roof of some public building. Expect to save $4,000 a year, so 21 years for break even.
But in Rochester, NY, you will find most roofs are covered by snow a good part of the year. So who shovels it off? Some over-paid union boy with more bennies than the mayor? :lol::lol::lol:

[Bubba X]

Where does this green come from, anyways?
The Earth is BLUE!

Risiing oceans mean more blue, which is what the planet is.
Bring on warm weather!

Blue = Good
Green = BadYou don't really believe the oceans are blue in color, do you?

Water appears blue because it reflects the sky. And why does the sky seem blue? Because molecules in the atmosphere scatter the blue rays of the sun more widely than the other colors of sunlight.

Sunlight is made up of all the colors of the rainbow. The blue rays just happen to have the highest frequency and get scattered far more widely than the other colors.

[Tom]

Google "sense of humor.":bang:

[ljb]

Rochester, NY just OK'd spending $84,000 on solar panels for the roof of some public building. Expect to save $4,000 a year, so 21 years for break even.
But in Rochester, NY, you will find most roofs are covered by snow a good part of the year. So who shovels it off? Some over-paid union boy with more bennies than the mayor? :lol::lol::lol:
How much did Rochester, NY. pay for their normal heat and what is the payback?
Do you have any stats to back up your snow shoveling job ?

[JustRalph]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22240865/

Breakthrough battery could boost electric cars
Toshiba promises 'energy solution' with nearly full recharge in 5 minutes

TOKYO - A new battery that can be recharged to 90 percent capacity in under five minutes and lasts 10 years will start shipping in March, Toshiba Corp. announced this week, hailing it as "a new energy solution" for cleaner transportation.

Toshiba plans to initially make the quick-charging Super Charge ion Battery for electric bikes, forklifts, construction machinery and other industrial use. It can work in temperatures as low as minus 22 degrees Fahrenheit.

A newcomer in rechargeable batteries, Toshiba said the lithium-ion battery could be used in hybrid and electric cars by 2010, Mochida said.

~more at the link~

[skate]

Where does this green come from, anyways?
The Earth is BLUE!

Risiing oceans mean more blue, which is what the planet is.
Bring on warm weather!

Blue = Good
Green = Bad

Blue plus Yellow-backs= Green

[GameTheory]

Florida has got an interesting idea:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16713781

[ljb]

But in Rochester, NY, you will find most roofs are covered by snow a good part of the year. So who shovels it off? Some over-paid union boy with more bennies than the mayor? :lol::lol::lol:
Does anyone else find it interesting that Tom in this note laughs at a person freezing their butt shoveling snow, suggesting they are over-paid and getting too many benefits. While in another thread Tom praises Paris Hilton type folks who will be spending Christmas on their yacht floating off the shores of the Bahamas, suggesting they work hard ?

[Tom]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22240865/



A newcomer in rechargeable batteries, Toshiba said the lithium-ion battery could be used in hybrid and electric cars by 2010, Mochida said.

~more at the link~

Weren't they the ones whose laptop batteries burst into flames?? :eek: