NYC-OTB

[Gibbon]

All the more reason to get involved and support this (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41242) tread.

The mayor acknowledged that this is likely to lead to the end of OTB operations in the city and recommended that OTB take "appropriate action." He also blamed Albany for OTB's current state of affairs --> NY DailyNews (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2007/11/nyrafoes_seize_on_bloomberg_ot.html)
The New York City Off-Track Betting Corp. operates more than 60 branches throughout the city where gamblers gather to bet on the day's races. Bettors place an average of 1.6 million wagers per day, totaling more than $1 billion in bets per year, according to NYCOTB --> USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2007-10-19-578642339_x.htm)


The threat of at least a temporary shutdown is very real.

[badcompany]

I believe it was former Mayor Rudy Guiliani who said that NYC-OTB is the only bookie in the world to consistantly lose money.

[onefast99]

I think that the NJ OTB parlors will show a significant increase in handle when these shut down. The new one in Fords(woodbridge) Favorites is very nice, nicer then any of the NYC OTB restaurants or parlors. Maybe NJ will explore one or two more of these in northern NJ.

[The Hawk]

All the more reason to get involved and support this (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41242) tread.


The threat of at least a temporary shutdown is very real.

As a guy who used to frequent the NYC OTB's I'm not so sure their closure would be a terrible idea. Obviously, NYRA, which is bankrupt, isn't getting a whole lot out of the current deal. Maybe they can start the OTB system from scratch and make it actually work for the racing industry, as opposed for the state. And, of course, many parlors are eyesores which give us ALL a bad name.

I believe it was former Mayor Rudy Guiliani who said that NYC-OTB is the only bookie in the world to consistantly lose money.

It was, but it was an unfair statement, as Rudy obviously knew the situation well, and that it was (and is) an impossible business model.

[PaceAdvantage]

How can an entity that takes in $1billion+ in action every year close its doors? It will never happen....somebody will step in (ie. the state) to shore things up....too many cushy political patronage jobs to save....and too much money to NY state to ignore....

[samyn on the green]

I do not think the city is serious about closing OTB. These press releases are meant to set the stage for NYC OTB to get the NYRA signal for free.
Early in 2007, the Boston Consulting Group, which had been retained by the city to produce a report on the financial health of NYCOTB, released a report that said the racing industry's share of OTB's revenue should be cut because racetracks in the state were flush with money from slot machines, which were legalized in 2001 at every racetrack in New York except Belmont Park and Saratoga.
OTB wants to compete with NYRA and it also wants its product for next to nothing. This is like me buying a lot of hotdogs from Nathans for 3 cents a dog and setting up shop with a cart in front of the store in Coney Island along with every corner in the city and selling the Frankfurters for less than Nathans themselves. Then complaining that when Nathans wanted a fair market price for their Frankfurters that our Nathans cart in front of Nathans was subsidizing the Frankfurter industry by selling so many of their products. Remember Nathans is only getting 3 cents when we sell one of their Frankfurters. Is this subsidizing Nathans?
"Years of state legislative schemes that favored racing interests over NYCOTB, at the expense of essential city services, have forced the city into a financially untenable situation in which city taxpayers are, in effect, asked to subsidize the state racing industry," Bloomberg said.

[OTM Al]

People need to realize that the OTB are not partners with NYRA, but competitors. Yes, there is a wierd symbiotic relationship, but they aren't working together and thus both are having troubles that they need not have. At the very least, the 3 OTB orginizations in which the tracks are located should be folded into the franchise.

[Indulto]

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=3&aid=75661 (http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=3&aid=75661)
Mayor Rejects Bailout For Cash-Strapped OTB Corporation
By Josh Robin
… A shutdown would not just disappoint racing fans. With no official place for betting, there are concerns organized crime could step in with bookies filling the void"Hey, Tom, time to drag out that thumb armor! :jump:

[Spectacular Sid]

I don't live in NYC, but isn't phone/account wagering legal there? If so, is OTB really necessary?

[OTM Al]

Italian food isn't neccessary, but some people prefer it. I enjoy the OTB "restaurants" and unless i go to the track, its the only way I bet

[Indulto]

Italian food isn't neccessary, but some people prefer it. I enjoy the OTB "restaurants" and unless i go to the track, its the only way I betI believe matzoh as well as pasta was home-delivered. ;)

Or was Meyer Lansky just a myth?

[badcompany]

I don't live in NYC, but isn't phone/account wagering legal there?
Yes.

If so, is OTB really necessary?
No.

The ideal situation would be home betting by phone or internet and an OTB cable network (not channel) that carries all the tracks. The same way the parlors carry all the tracks. I know I'd pay extra for that.

As it stands now, we have OTB parlors that are an embarrassment to horseracing and a disgrace to humanity, and, an OTB channel that carries four or five tracks at once without any semblance of order or direction.

[Gibbon]

The ideal situation would be home betting by phone or internet.... For the recreational player that would be a truism.

As for me, it will cripple my play. Supplying SS #, dealing with tax consequences is a large part of my job. Now I can walk into one of the three NYC-OTB teletheater which pay track prices and make a 10 dime play discreetly at the self services machines. Break up my bet into numerous smaller tickets thus avoiding any tax obligations. I can get paid in OTB vouchers. Vouchers come in denominations up to nine hundred and ninety nine dollars. Cashing in 20/30/40 vouchers with no tax stimulations.

Without this essential convenience, I'll be forced to give up my beloved game and play football, basketball and baseball exclusively. Sure I could move to Vegas but from my prior experience, Vegas is fanatical about tax avoiders. As far as offshore; due to legality that's a private matter.






_______________________
There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. ~ Winston Churchill

[Gibbon]

Posted 11/16/2007, 6:04 pm
OTB finances a complex equation
By MATT HEGARTY
http://www.drf.com/news/article/90395.html

New York City OTB is the single largest bet taker in the U.S., accounting for more than $1obillion in wagers in the 2006 fiscal year through 60 parlors and an Internet and telephone wagering system. Because of the sheer size of its handle, the company has been able to strike cut-rate simulcasting deals for out-of-state signals while at the same time providing tens of millions of dollars each year to support racetracks in the state.

There appear to be several options to prevent a shutdown of OTB. One would be to reduce its mandatory payments so that the company retains more revenue - at the expense of racetracks, horsemen, breeders, regulators, or a combination of all three. Another would be an increase in the takeout, allowing OTBs to increase the revenue provided by each bet. Still another would be legislation that folds the OTB into the next franchiseholder for the three tracks currently operated by the New York Racing Association, an idea that, in principle, Bloomberg supports.

A merger with the racing operator is perhaps the most logical solution, considering the duplications between the two companies.

[riskman]

I believe it was former Mayor Rudy Guiliani who said that NYC-OTB is the only bookie in the world to consistantly lose money.

What bookmaker do you know that provides health and disability benefits, paid vacation and sick leave, retirement benefits and a flex work schedule.

[DerbyTrail]

OTB finances a complex equation
By MATT HEGARTY
http://www.drf.com/news/article/90395.html

The important section of Hegarty's piece to highlight was his deciphering of what's actually in NYC OTB's results.. NYC OTB is making money after including the city surcharge they write as an expense... Profitable by +$11 million in 2006 according to Hegarty when sifting through the filings.

Hegarty and Steve Crist utterly debunked Bloomberg's gross fallacy over the past weekend in DRF. In fact, it turns out that NYC OTB's problems can be largely traced to their own miscalculation 4 years ago, coinciding exactly with their 'losses', when they pushed for night thoroughbred action. After lining up Mountaineer and Penn National and making a deal to stipend the harness tracks, the geniuses discovered there was little income in the TB evening sessions. Oops!

So now they're paying a premium back to the harness tracks on business that existed before their tactical error. But somehow it's Albany's fault. I'm no fan of Albany and their inept meddling in racing, but here is one case where they are a somewhat innocent bystander. Albany didn't appoint the mayor's cousin, or Allie Sherman years ago, to run the thing. The mayor's of NYC did. As usual, Crist seperates the wheat from the chaff.

CRIST: Bloomberg way off base on OTB (DRF Plus subscription required)
http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=90405

And Paul Moran picked up the gauntlet this week as well...
FIXING OTB IN NYC
By Paul Moran (http://www.paulmoranattheraces.blogspot.com (http://www.paulmoranattheraces.blogspot.com/))

[classhandicapper]

How can an entity that takes in $1billion+ in action every year close its doors? It will never happen....somebody will step in (ie. the state) to shore things up....too many cushy political patronage jobs to save....and too much money to NY state to ignore....

I estimate the probability of NYC OTB closing down at less than 1%.

I have a lot of knowledge about NYC OTB (especially the Queens branches). There are a few branches that should probably be closed, but overall, the NYC branches are run very well even if they aren't attractive.

There is a bit of a problem with salaries, but it's mostly a Sunday and Holiday issue and not the day to day pay or benefits.

Sundays are double time for part timers, full timers and managers. Per deims get time and a half. That works out to a lot of money because part timers and full timers at NYCOTB get about $22.50 per hour regular time and managers get $30 per hour and more. Per deims get $17.50 per hour, but no benefits. I've never seen the numbers, but I doubt many branches are making a lot of money on Sunday. However, I see no way the union is going to give back a pay benefit that most employees consider essential to making a living wage in NYC.

There are also problems with the idea of merging the various OTBs because as I understand it, there are actually different unions, totally different salary structures etc.... There is also a general belief that at least one of the unions is more corrupt than usual (if you know what I mean). The same problem would make any idea of merging the OTBs with NYRA difficult. The corruption problem (if you know what I mean) is supposedly not inside the NYC OTB. (that is heresay).

NYCOTB is probably going to close a few branches totally, close a few on Sunday, and work out some changes in the payments, but it definitely won't close down yet.

I don't see much future for it though. More and more customers are opening phone accounts and only use the branches to make quick deposits and withdrawals. I believe OTB makes less money on phone wagering because it gives track prices. That trend should accelerate with the addition of NYCOTB internet wagering and NYRA internet wagering (not to mention all the other internet options).

[Gibbon]

And so the battle begins...

Last Updated: April 16, 2008
Preliminary negotiations have begun at the state Capitol in Albany to address New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s threat to shut down the New York City Off-Track Betting Corp. in June.

Bloomberg has said the city will no longer provide money to prop up the OTBs, and wants to re-direct money that the money-losing operation now directs to the state and racetracks back into its own ledgers --> bloodhorse (http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleindex/article.asp?id=44613)

[misscashalot]

I don't live in NYC, but isn't phone/account wagering legal there? If so, is OTB really necessary?

You missing one important point here Sid. OTB is, for many bettors, a center for socializing using horse playing as a matrix. Along with that is the constant exchange of capping ideas. I lived in Hawaii that allows NO gambling of any sort, and played at my puter, phoning in bets, so I know the advantages of attending the track or an OTB shop. As you state, you don't live in NYC, but I wonder if you did live in a metropolitan area, would you find the benfits of visiting OTB shops an advantage?