What is about horse racing?

[bane]

What's the appeal to horse racing over any other sport and why doesnt' the NTRA research this and use it?

[kenwoodallpromos]

The appeal is using intellect to figure the race- NTRA just goes along with the horsemen instead of listening to bettors.
Racing is dog eat dog so it is very hard to standardize anything.
The TC and BC draw big crowds because of tradition and pageantry but that is rarely utilized.
Racing is not based on longevity of competitors but only on 1-2 minute individual races.
Spectators need to be given a reason to watch and keep watching but they are not.

[Shenanigans]

Because there is no appeal over any other sport. But I can name a bunch of unappealing aspects of it. Granted, all other sports have their own controversies occurring, but horse racing (to the average gambler) is much more sketchy and harder to read. In most sports there is Team A and Team B to choose to bet on. In horse racing there are more than two opponents to bet on.
In most sports the better team almost always wins. In horse racing, as we all know, the favorite doesn't always win - sometimes due to conditions of the track and what can happen in a race.
There are drugs in most every sport, but in most other sports it's a human taking the drug themselves and usually the general public picks up on who's doing and who isn't. In horse racing, the average fan doesn't know which trainers are the cheats and which ones aren't. Long time race handicappers/fans do only because they have gotten into the "know" at the track.
Lastly, the average humane person doesn't like to see an innocent animal suffer. No one (unless they are a sicko) goes to the races in hopes to see a horse to breakdown. But when Joe Theismann gets his leg stepped on and snapped in half in a football game, we all cringe and wince, but we know the tarpes aren't going to go up around him and he be euthanized.

[onefast99]

Because there is no appeal over any other sport. But I can name a bunch of unappealing aspects of it. Granted, all other sports have their own controversies occurring, but horse racing (to the average gambler) is much more sketchy and harder to read. In most sports there is Team A and Team B to choose to bet on. In horse racing there are more than two opponents to bet on.
In most sports the better team almost always wins. In horse racing, as we all know, the favorite doesn't always win - sometimes due to conditions of the track and what can happen in a race.
There are drugs in most every sport, but in most other sports it's a human taking the drug themselves and usually the general public picks up on who's doing and who isn't. In horse racing, the average fan doesn't know which trainers are the cheats and which ones aren't. Long time race handicappers/fans do only because they have gotten into the "know" at the track.
Lastly, the average humane person doesn't like to see an innocent animal suffer. No one (unless they are a sicko) goes to the races in hopes to see a horse to breakdown. But when Joe Theismann gets his leg stepped on and snapped in half in a football game, we all cringe and wince, but we know the tarpes aren't going to go up around him and he be euthanized.
Wow! Sounds as if you are a lot of fun to be around...horseracing is and always will be the sport of kings, from the lava man type stories on how a 50k claimer won over 3 million dollars to the showcase races like the Kentucky derby, Preakness and Belmont and the greatest day in racing the Breeders Cup! Horse racing is more diverse and watched then any other sport. Yes there are horses that fall or get hurt. From the tiny mid-america tracks to the Santa Anitas, stories are written every single racing day about this sport, there is no off-season it goes 365 a year! You have a chance to hit a huge pot on occasion by selecting the first 6 horses for 6 consecutive races, at better odds then any state run lottery. You can pay $3 and get a nice clubhouse seat to watch dozens of races thru simulcast. There is no better feeling then your horse crossing the finish line first while you take off to be first in line to greet the cashier. Its a great sport and nothing else has its history!!!

[Shenanigans]

Wow! Sounds as if you are a lot of fun to be around...horseracing is and always will be the sport of kings, from the lava man type stories on how a 50k claimer won over 3 million dollars to the showcase races like the Kentucky derby, Preakness and Belmont and the greatest day in racing the Breeders Cup! Horse racing is more diverse and watched then any other sport. Yes there are horses that fall or get hurt. From the tiny mid-america tracks to the Santa Anitas, stories are written every single racing day about this sport, there is no off-season it goes 365 a year! You have a chance to hit a huge pot on occasion by selecting the first 6 horses for 6 consecutive races, at better odds then any state run lottery. You can pay $3 and get a nice clubhouse seat to watch dozens of races thru simulcast. There is no better feeling then your horse crossing the finish line first while you take off to be first in line to greet the cashier. Its a great sport and nothing else has its history!!!


THAT'S how you feel. Now try selling that to a non-horsey, uninterested person. The NTRA can't do it, so how can you? How are you going to convince that person it's all what you say it is and then some when most of the media about racing is negative? Let me ask you this - When does racing get any media attention other than Kentucky Derby day? I'll tell when - When the Kentucky Derby winner breaks his leg.
I've been in the business for almost 20 years. Sure, you can spend $3 dollars and get a nice clubhouse seat and watch simulcast races all day. Who the hell wants to do that except for the hard core handicapper.:rolleyes: The average person out there has no interest in doing that. (Hell, I don't even want to do that.) The only thing that will keep horse racing afloat is the people in the business itself. Your "sport of kings" will return to just that. The big money will be the only ones running it. The little rat tracks will close (for the better) and only the big tracks will have live racing and I hope to God that I am around to see it happen.

[onefast99]

THAT'S how you feel. Now try selling that to a non-horsey, uninterested person. The NTRA can't do it, so how can you? How are you going to convince that person it's all what you say it is and then some when most of the media about racing is negative? Let me ask you this - When does racing get any media attention other than Kentucky Derby day? I'll tell when - When the Kentucky Derby winner breaks his leg.
I've been in the business for almost 20 years. Sure, you can spend $3 dollars and get a nice clubhouse seat and watch simulcast races all day. Who the hell wants to do that except for the hard core handicapper.:rolleyes: The average person out there has no interest in doing that. (Hell, I don't even want to do that.) The only thing that will keep horse racing afloat is the people in the business itself. Your "sport of kings" will return to just that. The big money will be the only ones running it. The little rat tracks will close (for the better) and only the big tracks will have live racing and I hope to God that I am around to see it happen.
Smaller tracks continue to find ways to survive, adding VLT's and poker having "night club" style entertainment etc, etc. But most important adding races that attract the fan. Gulfstream is the only track that may be failing at this. That track eliminated the $2 bettor and they will never come back. Presque Isle had a solid first meet, people will go back they are adding more and more things for the race fan as well as the casino patrons. The Kentucky Derby is the first big race of the year so that is why the hype is tremendous, the Preakness gets a solid following but by then the summer tracks are all in full swing and people start flocking to their local tracks. The sport has a negative side as you mentioned,Barbaro breaking his leg at the Preakness, first time that has happened in a race of that magnitude in a long long time. The good thing about racing is the positives outweigh the negatives by a mile!

[cj's dad]

Why it appeals to me over other sports?

Example: I can go to a Ravens NFL game any time I want at a cost of $100 per ticket, plus $25 to park, $7-8 a beer x 4;) and spend 4+ hours of my time watching a bunch of jackasses strut around the field after a sack or TD when losing 31-7, OR I can take that $150+, go to the track or wager at home and have a chance to win $$$, and I love the fact that the jocks have to win or else. No guaranteed contracts, no hold outs,etc....

Plus, I simply like the whole track enviroment, especially the other cappers making asses out of themselves, like screaming at the TV monitors, accusing a jock of holding a horse etc...:lol:

JMO

[Grits]

THAT'S how you feel. Now try selling that to a non-horsey, uninterested person. The NTRA can't do it, so how can you? How are you going to convince that person it's all what you say it is and then some when most of the media about racing is negative? Let me ask you this - When does racing get any media attention other than Kentucky Derby day? I'll tell when - When the Kentucky Derby winner breaks his leg.
I've been in the business for almost 20 years. Sure, you can spend $3 dollars and get a nice clubhouse seat and watch simulcast races all day. Who the hell wants to do that except for the hard core handicapper.:rolleyes: The average person out there has no interest in doing that. (Hell, I don't even want to do that.) The only thing that will keep horse racing afloat is the people in the business itself. Your "sport of kings" will return to just that. The big money will be the only ones running it. The little rat tracks will close (for the better) and only the big tracks will have live racing and I hope to God that I am around to see it happen.

I hope to God that you're around to see it happen as well.

Racing will survive. It may not survive for those with such poor attitudes, who have been in the business for almost 20 years, apparently jaded by that, I note.

Also, those who are still trying to focus on and sell the sport to the "non-horsey, uninterested" may not have the knowledge, the understanding and realization of the FACT that it is the very "who the hell wants to do that except for the hard core handicapper," the one you're rolling your eyes at. . . .

THAT IS, THAT HAS IN THE PAST, AND WILL CONTINUE--TO KEEP THE SPORT OF HORSERACING AFLOAT.

LET ME REMIND YOU, THE PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS WOULD HAVE NO BUSINESS, WERE IT NOT FOR THE HANDICAPPERS AND BETTORS.

Now, if it can be determined that I'm wrong on this fact, I will gladly be reprimanded. I tire of those who complain so about the sport, yet wager nothing.

[Nacumi]

LET ME REMIND YOU, THE PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS WOULD HAVE NO BUSINESS, WERE IT NOT FOR THE HANDICAPPERS AND BETTORS.

Now, if it can be determined that I'm wrong on this fact, I will gladly be reprimanded. I tire of those who complain so about the sport, yet wager nothing.

Not a reprimand, Grits...just an additional comment. If it weren't for the owners (and I don't mean just the BIG outfits who treat horses like widgets on an assembly line; I mean the little people like us) who have serious "skin" in the game, and who love our animals and our sport, there would be no business for anyone else who's learned to make a good living off our investment, including bloodstock agents, sales agencies, venue operators, television channels, internet and wagering platform outfits, jockeys, agents, trainers, backside workers...and yes, handicappers and bettors alike. If we stopped racing our horses, the industry and all of its peripheral parts would just go away. ;)

[TEJAS KIDD]

. Now try selling that to a non-horsey, uninterested person. The NTRA can't do it, so how can you? .


That's the million dollar question. In my case, it's easy. When I meet new people, whether it be through my children's school, their athletic teams or just the neighbor's on my block and the question comes up, "What do you do?". When I say, I'm a professional horseplayer, all of a sudden, they are totally interested in the game. I've taken many new people to the track in my lifetime. People are facinated by the fact that I make my living doing this. That is what's wrong with the NTRA, TVG, ESPN and all other forms of the media. There are people out there that make money at this game, but noone believes it or knows about them. Has ESPN or NBC ever done a fluff story about the guy who makes his living at the track? NO. According to the media, all horseplayers are degenerate lowlife's. My wife actually got kicked out of a novelty store in New York City because she was admiring an expensive piece of horse racing art. The manager struck up a conversation with her. She told him that I played the horses for a living. He told her, "You are lying or he's lying to you, and get out of my store, because noone that plays the horses could afford this piece." TRUE STORY.
In poker, isn't the attraction for most people, wanting to be like the guys on television (Ferguson,Ivey,Helmuth). Every guy would give their right arm to be one of those guys. DO you think anyone wants to be like Todd Schrupp. And yet, horse racing has done nothing to promote the real player's of our game.

[TEJAS KIDD]

If we stopped racing our horses, the industry and all of its peripheral parts would just go away. ;)


If you stopped racing your horses, we'd just find a different form of gaming.

If we stopped betting, who's gonna fund your purses that keeps your trainer's,groom's,jockey's, excercise rider's, pony girl's,starting gate crew's, jockeys agent's,announcer's,mutuel clerk's, tote person's, racing secretary's, tout's, bloodstock agent's mouth's fed ?

[Nacumi]

If you stopped racing your horses, we'd just find a different form of gaming.

Are you kidding? Isn't the problem that many people already HAVE found other gaming to their liking (ergo, the reason our sport's in decline), despite the fact that we're still racing, and right under their noses? Ask all of the folks at the racinos like Delaware and Philly that now prefer to play the slots, or even the lottery, for that matter. I've spent hours trying to explain to random casino goers how much better their "odds" are for winning a horse race than at a one-armed bandit.

If we stopped betting, who's gonna fund your purses that keeps your trainer's,groom's,jockey's, excercise rider's, pony girl's,starting gate crew's, jockeys agent's,announcer's,mutuel clerk's, tote person's, racing secretary's, tout's, bloodstock agent's mouth's fed ?

Aside from the slots payout percentages and other subsidies, you mean?

First of all, we're paying the foaling farm, stallion fee, the board/carry for mare/foal, the trainers, grooms, vets and exercise riders IRRESPECTIVE of whether we actually ever race the horse or not. That's what I meant by "skin" in the game. Then, if we're lucky enough to get to the races, we add the jockeys, agents, pony girls, etc., to our "payroll."
My point was relatively simple: if owners/breeders no longer 'manufacture' the content (horses) and race it, there wouldn't be a racing wagering opportunity for the bettors, would there? I'm not diminishing the importance of wagering; I'm saying the first link in the "chain" begins with the owners commitment to run their stock. Without it, there are no other businesses.

[Hajck Hillstrom]

....is the voice of the track administrators and we would have the source of the problem..... a house divided.

The handicapper, the horseman, and the administrator, each thinking that they are the heart of the sport.

Bring these three together with a mutual goal (which will need to be more than mutuel), and only then will the sport be elevated.

[kenwoodallpromos]

[QUOTE=TEJAS KIDD]If you stopped racing your horses, we'd just find a different form of gaming.

If we stopped betting, who's gonna fund your purses that keeps your trainer's,groom's,jockey's, excercise rider's, pony girl's,starting gate crew's, jockeys agent's,announcer's,mutuel clerk's, tote person's, racing secretary's, tout's, bloodstock agent's mouth's fed ?[/QUOTE/]
We pay takeout + breakage + lost ticket revenues to pay the labor etc; slots players pay less than 5% takeout each pull to hire someone to open and empty the machines!!

[TEJAS KIDD]

Here's an idea. Why don't we open a racetrack in America and tell the patrons that there is no wagering.

Hey dad, " I like the number one tumbleweed "
Hey son, " Look at the cannonball rolling by"


I'm not saying we don't have a great sport. I think horse race wagering is the best gamble there is.

Tracks have to fund purses with alternate forms of gaming because they have lost the wagering dollar to those games. It's because they've turned off their customers (the horseplayer),all the while taking care of the trainers/owners who are supposedly more important than us.

Also, the fact that a majority of the American people are lazy and uneducated. This game is far too sophisticated for most of them to be successful, so they might as well pull the lever, roll the dice, spin the wheel,and hit the quick pick.

[TEJAS KIDD]

Are you kidding? Isn't the problem that many people already HAVE found other gaming to their liking (ergo, the reason our sport's in decline), despite the fact that we're still racing, and right under their noses? Ask all of the folks at the racinos like Delaware and Philly that now prefer to play the slots, or even the lottery, for that matter. I've spent hours trying to explain to random casino goers how much better their "odds" are for winning a horse race than at a one-armed bandit.



Aside from the slots payout percentages and other subsidies, you mean?

First of all, we're paying the foaling farm, stallion fee, the board/carry for mare/foal, the trainers, grooms, vets and exercise riders IRRESPECTIVE of whether we actually ever race the horse or not. That's what I meant by "skin" in the game. Then, if we're lucky enough to get to the races, we add the jockeys, agents, pony girls, etc., to our "payroll."
My point was relatively simple: if owners/breeders no longer 'manufacture' the content (horses) and race it, there wouldn't be a racing wagering opportunity for the bettors, would there? I'm not diminishing the importance of wagering; I'm saying the first link in the "chain" begins with the owners commitment to run their stock. Without it, there are no other businesses.

This is a classic example of the CHICKEN or the EGG. Neither aswer is wrong or right.

[kenwoodallpromos]

he fact that a majority of the American people are lazy and uneducated. This game is far too sophisticated for most of them to be successful, so they might as well pull the lever, roll the dice, spin the wheel,and hit the quick pick.
___________

Ca was interested previously in "betting without thinking" for newbies; this could only be done if taking bets on program numbers prior to post positions being assigned.
Thoroughbred racing is the only animal racing in the USA where all competitors do not get individually timed. Of course they actually do, then the time is converted to "length" ahead on charts, then "lengths" behind on Past Performances. Tracks that have Quarterhorse and Thoroughbred races on the same card show timing for each Quarterhorse but only the winner's time for Thoroughbreds. There is no standard measurement for a "length".
Why are you blaming "lazy" ciustomers when racing goes out of its way to make it extra difficult to even know how your horse did?
Name another sport in the USA of any type where the competitor does not get an official performance statistic by points, score. or juidging? Do you really think racing tries to make it easy for newbies to figure out how the horse ran, even aside from not-standard track size? The figures makers make big profits from taking results and converting them into any number of comparative results.
The theory on racing is to make it as impossible as possible to figure out who will win, then have pools set up to make sure the best handicappers have the least payoffs.
Not at all surprising people would rather pull a slot or turn 2 cards than to take longer figuring how to read a horse's PP's than the horse's career lasts!!
____________
FROM NTRA:
"How To Make A Bet
Locate a mutuel window and indicate the following:

Indicate the track you want to wager on.
Indicate the Race Number, unless it's the current race.

Indicate the Amount you wish to wager.

Indicate the Type of bet you wish to make.

Indicate the Number of the horse(s), as shown in the program. For Example: "Lone Star Park, fifth race. Two dollars to win on number 6."* Note-It is very important to check your tickets for accuracy before leaving the window. Once you leave the window and the race begins, you cannot change your ticket, Also, never tear up your tickets until the race has been declared "official."
I would add- "look for the NEWBIE WINDOW so the clerk does not make you look like a fool"!

[TEJAS KIDD]

___________

Why are you blaming "lazy" ciustomers when racing goes out of its way to make it extra difficult to even know how your horse did?
The theory on racing is to make it as impossible as possible to figure out who will win, then have pools set up to make sure the best handicappers have the least payoffs.
Not at all surprising people would rather pull a slot or turn 2 cards than to take longer figuring how to read a horse's PP's than the horse's career lasts!!
____________
!

I didnt say the customers were lazy. I said that a majority of the American people were lazy. Most people that buy some sort of PP's or computer program, do some work in their handicapping. They are not lazy. They are making an effort to educate themselves before they invest their money. I was talking about the people that are not horseplayers. They don't and won't spend the time to educate themselves to play the horses, because they would rather PULL THE LEVER, SPIN THE WHEEL, ROLL THE DICE and HIT THE QUICK PICK.

As far as your comment about making it as impossible as possible. THat's crazy. Have you seen a racing form from the 70's? There was next to no information. I wish I was able to wager back into those pools, unfortunately I wasnt even a teenager yet. Now we have trainer stats, video replays, lifetime records, just to name a few. If anything, the game has gotten harder for the pros. There is too much information is out there for everyone.

[boomman]

That's the million dollar question. In my case, it's easy. When I meet new people, whether it be through my children's school, their athletic teams or just the neighbor's on my block and the question comes up, "What do you do?". When I say, I'm a professional horseplayer, all of a sudden, they are totally interested in the game. I've taken many new people to the track in my lifetime. People are facinated by the fact that I make my living doing this. That is what's wrong with the NTRA, TVG, ESPN and all other forms of the media. There are people out there that make money at this game, but noone believes it or knows about them. Has ESPN or NBC ever done a fluff story about the guy who makes his living at the track? NO. According to the media, all horseplayers are degenerate lowlife's. My wife actually got kicked out of a novelty store in New York City because she was admiring an expensive piece of horse racing art. The manager struck up a conversation with her. She told him that I played the horses for a living. He told her, "You are lying or he's lying to you, and get out of my store, because noone that plays the horses could afford this piece." TRUE STORY.
In poker, isn't the attraction for most people, wanting to be like the guys on television (Ferguson,Ivey,Helmuth). Every guy would give their right arm to be one of those guys. DO you think anyone wants to be like Todd Schrupp. And yet, horse racing has done nothing to promote the real player's of our game.

Tejas: First of all, congratulations on being a professional player, as being one myself, I know what kind of hard work and preparation are needed to become one of the less than 2% of people who wager on horse racing that actually do it for a living. Let me respond to a couple of the points you made:

1) Professional Players: People ARE fascinated that some players actually DO make a living betting horses, and many desire to learn that themselves, but most fail simply because they don't get the proper training or have the mental discipline needed to do so on a consistent basis. Poker HAS succeeded because of media coverage of these "Stars" especially Daniel Negreanu, who is personable and highly approachable by everyone, and young players starting in the game want to be like him ( and thus growth evolves). Every sport or activity needs superstars and media coverage to succeed and grow and we simply don't have enough of either. The horses are the athletes and the stars but since their careers are so short, they can't be the lone superstars. The public has to be shown the revelry and excitment of the game as well as the fact that it can be beaten, and then new folks will try it and the game will grow.

2) Media Coverage: ESPN has made a solid effort to promote our sport on a limited big game day basis, and TVG and HRTV make an effort as well. Could they do better? Of course, but they are attempting to expand their programming and make our sport interesting while doing so. The NTRA? That's a whole different matter. From the moment they started their ridiculous "Go Baby Go" campaign with Laurie Petty, the NTRA has been a total flop. They have done nothing to extend media coverage of our sport, instead operating on a ridiculous budget while make the tracks fork over tens of thousands of dollars each (even the smaller ones) to participate while producing no national fan education programs, not initiating any new media forums for our sport, and simply sitting there while under the phony auspices of bringing attention to our sport. As a track administrator myself, I can tell you that we have done more promotions and reached out to the racing fan more than the NTRA will ever do with a thousand times larger budget!

3) As for the shopkeeper: If a shopkeeper treated my wife like that, he would find himself on the news! I would go out of my way to make sure that no one shopped at his store, and if he had a problem with that he could discuss it outside "in my office" LOL:D

Thanks for bringing some valid points to this forum..........

Boomer

[TEJAS KIDD]

3) As for the shopkeeper: If a shopkeeper treated my wife like that, he would find himself on the news! I would go out of my way to make sure that no one shopped at his store, and if he had a problem with that he could discuss it outside "in my office" LOL:D

Thanks for bringing some valid points to this forum..........

Boomer

Fortunately for him, I was home working in Texas while the wife was shopping away in New York.

[jognlope]

Each time I go to the Spa it's just as exciting. First just watching the horses come onto the track, with no blurring of image by TV reception. If the sun is hitting them this creates the effect of illuminating all the individual features of each horse's face, sometimes you can see his eyes look your way. The jockey on the horse is a sight to behold, it's just so magic. I guess I think jockeys are another form of mammal or something. The way they are so calm, small yes, but so somehow larger than life with their cool exposure.


Then Durkin says and they're off and you see the movement, completely silent and then about half a minute later you finally year the hooves and the horses come around the turn and it's like a dream to me, almost seems like a dream that all the horses are doing just what they are supposed to, someone knowing "this is a race and I have to go the fastest" (well not all the horses).

And then the crowd is roaring and then the horses pass by, their faces illuminated, their eyes blazing....

Oh crap is it Friday yet?

[kenwoodallpromos]

I didnt say the customers were lazy. I said that a majority of the American people were lazy. Most people that buy some sort of PP's or computer program, do some work in their handicapping. They are not lazy. They are making an effort to educate themselves before they invest their money. I was talking about the people that are not horseplayers. They don't and won't spend the time to educate themselves to play the horses, because they would rather PULL THE LEVER, SPIN THE WHEEL, ROLL THE DICE and HIT THE QUICK PICK.

As far as your comment about making it as impossible as possible. THat's crazy. Have you seen a racing form from the 70's? There was next to no information. I wish I was able to wager back into those pools, unfortunately I wasnt even a teenager yet. Now we have trainer stats, video replays, lifetime records, just to name a few. If anything, the game has gotten harder for the pros. There is too much information is out there for everyone.
__
The crux of my argument is that people would rather not try to learn a complicated game like Thoroughbred handicapping, and that things can be done to make it easier to learn. I've seen PP's and charts going back to the 1970's and they did not have individual finish times then either.
Facts are facts and the fact is that attendance is declining except for those slots players. If racing wants to go to full casinos and forget the betting on races fine. I'm not sure how many politicians care how the horse breeding and horse farm industry is propped up anyway as long as it is!!

[cj's dad]

Also, the fact that a majority of the American people are lazy and uneducated. This game is far too sophisticated for most of them to be successful, so they might as well pull the lever, roll the dice, spin the wheel,and hit the quick pick.

I don't know who you hang around with but 99% of my friends are not lazy and are educated. Where do you get this generalization about Americans.
It would be like me saying that a majority of Texans wear cowboy hats, have bowed legs, and chewed tobacco. Since I don't know a majority of Texans, I can't make any statements regarding them. The point is that you don't know a MAJORITY of Americans, ergo you are making a fallacious statement.

[Grits]

If the majority of the nation's population were lazy. THIS would not be the most highly industrialized nation on Earth. Nor would it be the wealthiest.

TK, I do not agree with your statement, as it casts a net that is quite unfavorable, while being far too broad in summation.

[TEJAS KIDD]

I'm an American too, but you've got to admit that people in our country are not going above and beyond to do anything. Customer service sucks, everywhere. There are millions of illegals crossing our borders to do labor that Americans won't because there isn't enough incentive to work. Look at every racetrack backstretch. Illegals working for bottom dollar while Americans are collecting welfare and food stamps all the while bitching about illegals taking our jobs. The illegals aren't taking our jobs, they're taking jobs that American's aren't willing to do. Meanwhile, the shop owners are getting fat because they don't have to pay taxes on the UNDER THE TABLE below minimum wage employees. Our country is falling apart because the newer generations want to as little as they can for as much as they can in as little time as possible.

Now that I'm totally off the subject here, I'll stop.

Maybe I shouldnt have said a MAJORITY. Or maybe I should have said AMERICAN GAMBLERS. Or maybe I should change the people I'm hanging around. Anyone have friends that aren't misfits that I can hang with?

[Shenanigans]

[QUOTE=TEJAS KIDD]I'm an American too, but you've got to admit that people in our country are not going above and beyond to do anything. Customer service sucks, everywhere. There are millions of illegals crossing our borders to do labor that Americans won't because there isn't enough incentive to work. Look at every racetrack backstretch. Illegals working for bottom dollar while Americans are collecting welfare and food stamps all the while bitching about illegals taking our jobs. The illegals aren't taking our jobs, they're taking jobs that American's aren't willing to do. Meanwhile, the shop owners are getting fat because they don't have to pay taxes on the UNDER THE TABLE below minimum wage employees. Our country is falling apart because the newer generations want to as little as they can for as much as they can in as little time as possible.

QUOTE]

Sorry, I have to disagree here. Mexicans are too taking jobs that U.S. citizens want. What they are doing is working for less that what the U.S. citizen would reasonably work for. Instead of rubbing three horses for $350 they rub 5 for $350. Any good U.S. citizen groom would get $350 for 3, $500 for 5. Mexicans pile up in tack rooms, don't pay rent or pay rent but have 20 living in a house. This is how they can take low paying jobs (that use to be high paying for the U.S. citizen) and live here in this country.

[TEJAS KIDD]

[QUOTE=TEJAS KIDD]I'm an American too, but you've got to admit that people in our country are not going above and beyond to do anything. Customer service sucks, everywhere. There are millions of illegals crossing our borders to do labor that Americans won't because there isn't enough incentive to work. Look at every racetrack backstretch. Illegals working for bottom dollar while Americans are collecting welfare and food stamps all the while bitching about illegals taking our jobs. The illegals aren't taking our jobs, they're taking jobs that American's aren't willing to do. Meanwhile, the shop owners are getting fat because they don't have to pay taxes on the UNDER THE TABLE below minimum wage employees. Our country is falling apart because the newer generations want to as little as they can for as much as they can in as little time as possible.

QUOTE]

Sorry, I have to disagree here. Mexicans are too taking jobs that U.S. citizens want. What they are doing is working for less that what the U.S. citizen would reasonably work for. Instead of rubbing three horses for $350 they rub 5 for $350. Any good U.S. citizen groom would get $350 for 3, $500 for 5. Mexicans pile up in tack rooms, don't pay rent or pay rent but have 20 living in a house. This is how they can take low paying jobs (that use to be high paying for the U.S. citizen) and live here in this country.

You're proving my point. The American worker won't rub 5 for $350 (that says it all). They won't shack up in a tack room, they won't live in a house of 20. When I was down and out, no less than 16 years ago (pretty much homeless), I did what I could to survive. I rubbed two horses for about a $150 a week. I slept on a tack room floor in freezing temperatures. I did what I needed. The newer generations of Americans won't lower themselves to that.
By the way, isn't it the responsibility of the employer to compensate their employees based on the value of their work. It's simple, American business owners hire the cheapest labor they can find so they can pocket the money and get richer quicker. Americans have had a high standard of living for too long. We need to forget it and do what we need to survive, instead of whining about the immigrant worker who works twice as hard and receives half as much. When you need to survive, you do what you can. If I were to lose everything that I had today, I would be out there hustling up any job I could get to support my family. I am not a well educated man (6 units of college at most) I spent my education at the track. Fortunately for me I am a skilled horseplayer and have made a great living at it, but if this were to all fall apart for me tomorrow, I would be the one out there rubbing horses for $350 a week.

I think it's all a governmental conspiracy. They are going to let all the Mexicans come across the border, and once they are all here, there going to slip around by them and move down south of the border to enjoy the beautiful Gulf and Pacific coast beaches.

[Shenanigans]

[QUOTE=Shenanigans]

You're proving my point. The American worker won't rub 5 for $350 (that says it all). They won't shack up in a tack room, they won't live in a house of 20. When I was down and out, no less than 16 years ago (pretty much homeless), I did what I could to survive. I rubbed two horses for about a $150 a week. I slept on a tack room floor in freezing temperatures. I did what I needed. The newer generations of Americans won't lower themselves to that.
By the way, isn't it the responsibility of the employer to compensate their employees based on the value of their work. It's simple, American business owners hire the cheapest labor they can find so they can pocket the money and get richer quicker. Americans have had a high standard of living for too long. We need to forget it and do what we need to survive, instead of whining about the immigrant worker who works twice as hard and receives half as much. When you need to survive, you do what you can. If I were to lose everything that I had today, I would be out there hustling up any job I could get to support my family. I am not a well educated man (6 units of college at most) I spent my education at the track. Fortunately for me I am a skilled horseplayer and have made a great living at it, but if this were to all fall apart for me tomorrow, I would be the one out there rubbing horses for $350 a week.

I think it's all a governmental conspiracy. They are going to let all the Mexicans come across the border, and once they are all here, there going to slip around by them and move down south of the border to enjoy the beautiful Gulf and Pacific coast beaches.


I wasn't proving your point at all. I was proving the fact that immigrants have lowered the wage because they are willing to shack up with 10 amigos in a tack room. This is America. An American citizen shouldn't have to live like they came from Mexico, living in tack rooms with 10 other guys. If immigrants would say "no, you pay me the same as a U.S. citizen" the playing field would be a lot more even. BTW, they are taking jobs that U.S. citizens DO want. For example, a lot of good paying construction jobs are going to immigrants. Why? Because they will work a 12+ hour day for 8 hour pay. I live near an Amish community. The Amish don't even like them around because they are taking their jobs from them. Amish are the hardest working people out there, and when they are bothered by immigrants working in this country, that ought to say something.

[TEJAS KIDD]

[QUOTE=TEJAS KIDD]


I wasn't proving your point at all. I was proving the fact that immigrants have lowered the wage because they are willing to shack up with 10 amigos in a tack room. This is America. An American citizen shouldn't have to live like they came from Mexico, living in tack rooms with 10 other guys. If immigrants would say "no, you pay me the same as a U.S. citizen" the playing field would be a lot more even. BTW, they are taking jobs that U.S. citizens DO want. For example, a lot of good paying construction jobs are going to immigrants. Why? Because they will work a 12+ hour day for 8 hour pay. I live near an Amish community. The Amish don't even like them around because they are taking their jobs from them. Amish are the hardest working people out there, and when they are bothered by immigrants working in this country, that ought to say something.


I know that we've gotten way off topic here and I apologize.


LIke I stated before, SHOULDN'T it be the responsibility of the SO-CALLED AMERICAN employers to compensate their employees correctly. They are the ones undercutting the immigrants by paying them under the table below minimum wage salaries. They are the ones being UN-AMERICAN by avoiding payroll taxes. Why are the starving ones to blame? They are not taking the jobs of Americans. It's the Americans that are giving the jobs to them. It's all about the PROFIT.

I hired an American woman to clean my house a couple of years ago. We paid her $75 a week. All she did was bitch about how little I was paying, all the while taking 6 hours( a fewer less cigarette breaks would help) to do what most people could do in 4. Needless to say, she got canned.
Now I have hired a ethnic woman, I do not know if she's legal or not (I'm not running for public office anytime soon, so I really don't care). She does a great job without saying a word, and I pay her accordingly. She makes $25 more a week than the previous lady and deservedly so. She didnt ask for the extra money. We've given it her, because she's a hard worker and doesn't bitch (maybe she does bitch, but I don't understand her).
Those people are willing to do what it takes to survive. They have left their homeland to look for a better life for their families (sound familiar?) They need to shack up 10 to a tack room because American employer's aren't paying them American salaries, and yet, they don't bitch because it's better than the alternative. We, Americans, have enjoyed the American dream for too long. We've become lazy and uneducated and too proud to work for peanuts. If JOHN SMITH is unskilled and uneducated, then he should be working for minimum wages and shacking up in a tack room with 9 other American highschool dropouts. What gives him the right to bitch? He had all the oppurtunities to go to school and get the education he needs, but he didn't.

[Robert Fischer]

Horse Racing is one of the greatest wagering games in the world.

The reason it is so under-developed is that it is not promoted on MASS MEDIA.

Why?

On the surface it would seem that racing is run by idiots, and that they are a divided shortsighted conservative bunch. The type of fool who thinks investment is a cost, and avoids costs at all.. costs.
However I believe that there is some political resistance to broadcasting a gambling game on mainstream mass media.

To be efficient, it would take direct salesmanship of the gambling through a program specific telephone/internet wagering system to fund the programming rather than commercials for alcohol, and auto companys as with a spectator sport.
I believe there is political resistance to this. Horse Racing in it's limited exposure on mass media is falsely "marketed" as a spectator sport and not as a gambling game. Political resistance makes more sense than saying that Racing is openly turning down millions of players and the growth of the game and the sport to it's highest level ever. There has to be an unwritten rule somewhere prohibiting active gambling from being broadcast on mass media.

[Capper Al]

What's the appeal to horse racing over any other sport and why doesnt' the NTRA research this and use it?

The appeal is being more than a spectator like in other sports. Handicapping gets the fan involved. Sports wagering just isn't the same for some reason.

The NTRA does a good job covering the Triple Crown and the Breeders' Cup. But they blow it big time with the World Handicapping Championship. They interview the players instead of getting into their minds where the real excitement is. It's the handicapping that attracts players into the game.