Pinnacle reduces rebate

[cj]

I know this doesn't matter to most here, but the WPS rebate has been reduced to 5% for all tracks, which does include upping NYRA by 1%. Exotics remain at 7% for all but NYRA, which is 5%.

[andicap]

I guess it's not worth my while anymore to reopen my Pinnacle account. I'll stick with Bookmaker.com, 5dimes and I'm joining Betfair (but having big problems with Neteller customer service. would have been quicker to have just sent a cheque.)

[cj]

You are still American, stop spelling like a Brit! It took us over 200 years to fix all the mistakes.

[TEJAS KIDD]

Is Pinnacle still booking North American tracks or are they parimutuel now ?

[cj]

They are an off shore book.

[andicap]

You are still American, stop spelling like a Brit! It took us over 200 years to fix all the mistakes.

Cheers, mate!

[Zman179]

Cheers, mate!

Bollocks. Stop being a wanker. :lol:

[TEJAS KIDD]

They are an off shore book.

I know they are OFF SHORE. I read somewhere that they were going Pari Mutuel when they took themselves out of the American market. That was my question?

[cj]

No, they are not parimutuel. They left because of impending problems with the US Justice department. So, how are they going to be parimutuel?

[TEJAS KIDD]

I know all about Pinnacle leaving the US market and why they did it. I played with Pinnacle before they left. Before they left, I suspected that my money was getting into the pools as I made big wagers on horses at small tracks and the money always seemed to hit the pools.

I was thinking of opening account with an British bookmaker but I found out that they were comingling the money into the American pools. That's why I am asking the question about Pinnacle.
Just because they are off-shore doesnt mean they can't comingle the money into the American pools.

[cj]

If that is what you are asking, it makes more sense. There really is no way to know if they are getting some of the money in the pools or not. I imagine it isn't as easy as it once was to do so.

[Premier Turf Club]

I know all about Pinnacle leaving the US market and why they did it. I played with Pinnacle before they left. Before they left, I suspected that my money was getting into the pools as I made big wagers on horses at small tracks and the money always seemed to hit the pools.

I was thinking of opening account with an British bookmaker but I found out that they were comingling the money into the American pools. That's why I am asking the question about Pinnacle.
Just because they are off-shore doesnt mean they can't comingle the money into the American pools.

They almost all co-mingle, especially when they dealing with winning players. Books don't want to hold that much risk. It's getting harder for them to layoff these days.

[pandy]

bookmaker.com (which is owned by Betcris), claims that it books the horse racing bets, but I have a hard time believing that they could afford to give you an 8% rebate on exotic bets while booking the action.

[Tom Barrister]

Given that the track take on exotics is in the 20% and higher in most places, and given the fact that most players munch on a steady diet of chalk, I don't see where the problem would be, as long as the book had enough financing (as CRIS does) to withstand a huge payout or two.

Bookmaker doesn't really give back 8%. They give back "up to 8%". There are many qualifiers and conditions that they don't tell you about. I bet with them for about two weeks. My rebate was always about half of what it was supposed to be. Emails to them asking why were answered with form-letter replies, and phone calls resulted in a lot of verbal runaround. I came away with the impression that the only way to get a full rebate was to make one exact type of bet at one exact track, and that the type of bet and track changed randomly three or four times a day. After two weeks, I gave up and withdrew my money.

[pandy]

Bookmaker has always paid me 8% on exotic bets and 3% on win on all major thoroughbred tracks.

[TEJAS KIDD]

In regards to Bookmaker.com, It doesnt take long for them to figure out that you're going to beat them and they, in turn, cut off your rebate completely. The guys that are getting the rebates for long periods of time are the guys that are going to lose in the long run.

[pandy]

I've been betting with bookmaker for 11 months and I've shown a profit overall and a profit in 9 of the 11 months and so far they have not taken away my rebate. Do you know anyone who has had their rebate taken away, or are you just speculating?

[cj]

In regards to Bookmaker.com, It doesnt take long for them to figure out that you're going to beat them and they, in turn, cut off your rebate completely. The guys that are getting the rebates for long periods of time are the guys that are going to lose in the long run.

This is simply not true. If winning bettors were getting cut off, don't you think the first thing they would do would be to tell everyone possible, including on internet message boards? The bad publicity would be much more damaging then losing a little money to a few players.

[pandy]

I totally agree.

[TEJAS KIDD]

This is simply not true. If winning bettors were getting cut off, don't you think the first thing they would do would be to tell everyone possible, including on internet message boards? The bad publicity would be much more damaging then losing a little money to a few players.

Why would cutting off winning bettors be bad for business? I would think NOT paying a winning bettor would be bad for business.

If someone got on a message board and posted that such and such cut them off, all that would do is just open themselves off to all the ribbing and disbelief from fellow posters

If you heard a book will cut you off if you win too much money, why would that keep you from opening an account?


Here are some books that you may not be interested in then.
VIPHORSES will cut you off
OASIS (if they still exist?) will cut you off
BODOG (believe it or not) will not cut you off ,but will limit your plays enough to make you show yourself to the door
BETCRIS/BOOKMAKER will take away the rebate
BETJAMAICA will lower your limits
EHORSE will put your plays into the parimutuel pools
PINNACLE will put your plays into the parimutel pools

I shouldnt have said that Bookmaker.com will only let losers have the rebates. I was wrong about that. What I should have said is "if you open an account and win a lot early on, they will take away the rebate"

[Tom Barrister]

All I know is that I only got about half the rebate I was entitled to at Bookmaker, and asking them why either got me a form-reply or a phone-runaround. When I was at Ehorse and Pinnacle, I got exactly what I thought I had coming to me almost all of the time, and when I didn't, I'd either made a mistake in calculating it, or I'd forgotten that certain tracks and/or types of bets didn't get the same rebate or got no rebate. In any case their explanations made sense to me. Bookmaker's didn't, which is why I stopped using them.

[cj]

Why would anyone open an account where they know they will be cut off if they win? I agree Pinnacle and eHorse are probably putting money in the pools. It is still better than me putting it in the pools with no rebate. I also use 5dimes which I am certain is not putting money in the pools at the small tracks. That is why I use them.

Why would someone be chastised for passing on the information that they have been cut off?

[bigmack]

In regards to Bookmaker.com, It doesnt take long for them to figure out that you're going to beat them and they, in turn, cut off your rebate completely. The guys that are getting the rebates for long periods of time are the guys that are going to lose in the long run.
This is a completely delusive statement.

[TEJAS KIDD]

Why would someone be chastised for passing on the information that they have been cut off?[/QUOTE]

Because people that don't know you, may not believe you and tell you you're lying. THen the pissing contest begins and so on and so on.

[TEJAS KIDD]

This is a completely delusive statement.

I changed this statement in a later reply.

If you beat them up soon after opening an account, they may review your action and deem it necessary to take away the rebate. It happens. I know it first hand, second hand and third hand.

[trying2win]

--With Pinnacle reducing their straight bet rebates to 5 %, that just makes it more attractive to wager with some other betting companies now.

--I think an up-to-date discussion on the pros and cons of the various betting companies (onshore and offshore) would be an interesting topic to discuss in another thread.


T2W

[rrbauer]

bookmaker.com (which is owned by Betcris), claims that it books the horse racing bets, but I have a hard time believing that they could afford to give you an 8% rebate on exotic bets while booking the action.

Why couldn't they afford to give you 8% when the overall takeout for exotic bets averages about 22 or 23%? That leaves them with 14 or 15% hold for openers plus another point or two for breakage. These people are not the local bookie down at the coffee shop or newstand. Big business with big bucks and lots of losers pumping their money into their operation.

Billion-dollar outfits don't need to layoff their action. They can control the hits with bet and payoff limits. Go look at the posts in the "Selections" section on this board and tell me you wouldn't like to be booking that action!

[classhandicapper]

Bookmaker has always paid me 8% on exotic bets and 3% on win on all major thoroughbred tracks.

Me too, but I mostly play NYRA.