Jockey's Agent

[bigmack]

Have a friend in theatrical manangement who is curious about this gig. Is it best to be a horseman, a hustler, what?

Also, what is the typical % take?

[onefast99]

10% of the Jocks winnings, must have a solid A rider and a bug who is hot to make good money. It is like anything else the jock feels he isnt getting good mounts and kaboom the agent is replaced. Tough job.

[stu]

Have a friend in theatrical manangement who is curious about this gig. Is it best to be a horseman, a hustler, what?

Also, what is the typical % take?

As a former jockey agent, the compensation usually is 25% of the jockey's gross. I know of one agent at a big track who took 20% to represent a hall of famer. I know of one agent at a small track that gets 30% but he has the leading rider 4 out of every 5 meets.

The arrangements are based on a spit and a handshake. While many jockeys are good pay, some riders are bad pay, i.e. they pay you late, short or not at all.

To be a good agent you need a good salesman. This requires three things: good people management skills, a good rolodex, and a good product. Two of the three are not enough. Being a horsemen and/or hustler would definitely help but won't be enough to overcome the above three needs.

If you care about your friend, then tell him to think twice unless a successful trainer or jockey asks you to represent someone.

[bane]

Requirements: either a retired jockey who needs a job, trainer that needs money or a gigantic crook.

[bigmack]

a gigantic crook.
How, pray tell, did you come up with that?

[bane]

I was joking because there are a lot of bad ones out there... not to mention annoying as hell.

[Shenanigans]

Requirements: The ability to be the worlds' biggest bull shitter and azz kisser.

[Dave Schwartz]

Stu,

Is there anything you haven't done at the racetrack?

Thanks for the great first-hand explanation.


Dave

[CryingForTheHorses]

As a former jockey agent, the compensation usually is 25% of the jockey's gross. I know of one agent at a big track who took 20% to represent a hall of famer. I know of one agent at a small track that gets 30% but he has the leading rider 4 out of every 5 meets.

The arrangements are based on a spit and a handshake. While many jockeys are good pay, some riders are bad pay, i.e. they pay you late, short or not at all.

To be a good agent you need a good salesman. This requires three things: good people management skills, a good rolodex, and a good product. Two of the three are not enough. Being a horsemen and/or hustler would definitely help but won't be enough to overcome the above three needs.

If you care about your friend, then tell him to think twice unless a successful trainer or jockey asks you to represent someone.


Being a trainer who has been around,What Stu says is right on,A agent has to do his homework and know what horses fit where and most of all who trains them. There are a couple of sharp agents here at Calder,A agent must be at the draw to make sure he gets that certain mount or be able to have the balls to "spin" a trainer who he gave a call for a certain race and then gets named on a better horse.I myself will make a agent hold his call for me for a certain race,IF he does spin me, I never give him another mount. IF you have a barn with "live" horses,Lots of agaents come by to try to get in the barn. IF a agent is loyal to me,I am loyal to him and stick by his rider.

[boomman]

Being a trainer who has been around,What Stu says is right on,A agent has to do his homework and know what horses fit where and most of all who trains them. There are a couple of sharp agents here at Calder,A agent must be at the draw to make sure he gets that certain mount or be able to have the balls to "spin" a trainer who he gave a call for a certain race and then gets named on a better horse.I myself will make a agent hold his call for me for a certain race,IF he does spin me, I never give him another mount. IF you have a barn with "live" horses,Lots of agaents come by to try to get in the barn. IF a agent is loyal to me,I am loyal to him and stick by his rider.

McShell: With all due respect, EVERY trainer has made the comment that if you "spin" me, you will NEVER ride any of my horses again. And as a former jock's agent myself, I know that if every trainer that said that had stuck to it, there would be no riders left to ride horses! LOL. Here's how I did it: when I was an agent at Turf Paradise, Richard Lockwood was in his heyday (had the largest barn on the grounds) and I had Glenn Lowry's book who ended up 2nd leading rider that year. Here was the deal: It was unrealistic to think in a 165 day meet that I wasn't going to be caught in a "trap" from time to time, (especially there where you had to name on at the time of draw) so I told Richard that I would NEVER "spin" him @ the draw, I would let him know AHEAD of TIME if I had to ride another horse in the race. That deal worked between us and we're still friends to this day. There is a HUGE difference between HONESTY and DECEPTION. As for Stu and Dave Schwartz's question, (and knowing how racing secretaries come and go in New Mexico, having been a track announcer at Alb for 18 years) I would like for him to give us an evaluation of his initial meet there and the level of cooperation or lack thereof with management and the horsemen......Stu???

Boomer

[stu]

As for Stu and Dave Schwartz's question, (and knowing how racing secretaries come and go in New Mexico, having been a track announcer at Alb for 18 years) I would like for him to give us an evaluation of his initial meet there and the level of cooperation or lack thereof with management and the horsemen......Stu???

Boomer

Management gave me a significant amount of freedom and full support. The horsemen treated me in the same manner that they treat the other racing secretaries in the state.

[David-LV]

Have a friend in theatrical manangement who is curious about this gig. Is it best to be a horseman, a hustler, what?

Also, what is the typical % take?

The typical percent that a jockey agent receives is 25% of the gross earnings of the jockey.

In the case of hall of fame jockeys the usual fee is 20% of the gross earnings.

This is a very tough business that requires long days and good contacts that are built up over a very long period of time.

________
David

[Dave Schwartz]

Management gave me a significant amount of freedom and full support. The horsemen treated me in the same manner that they treat the other racing secretaries in the state.


Stu,

The allowed you to get out off your car before they blew it up? <G>


Seriously, it must be very tough carding the right races for the mix of horses currently available. I am assuming that it takes a great deal of organization. Would you take some time and tell us how you do that? (I think it would be especially interesting to understand how you decide how many horses are available in a given category of race.)


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[stu]

Would you take some time and tell us how you do that? (I think it would be especially interesting to understand how you decide how many horses are available in a given category of race.)


I keep track of the general population with a MS-Access database of Bris ICX files from the local track and concurrent and previous meets in the region. This only helps with the thoroughbreds. There is not much analogous for the quarters.

To be honest, determing availability is difficult. You don't always know which horses are coming and going by private sales to other regions. You don't always know who has been injured and taken out of training and possibly turned out. You don't always know who will run for less money today than what they could in several weeks at another track. You don't always know who raced at the matches and will or won't be ready to run for another week or two.

My 'crutches' were the PPs submitted with the stall applications and extra requests. Those are my only concrete avenues to what races could fill.

The next best step is to mark my own copy of the condition book with the number entered in every race. If I need an extra or am working on the next book, then I have a head count for the last time the race was offered.

When the stall apps come, I create a spreadsheet that records the number of QHs and TBs for each trainer. The spreadsheet also records the number of winners and maidens. I keep track of the number of statebreds as well.

I keep a few other spreadsheets as well.

[Dave Schwartz]

Stu,

It seems like an insurmountable task (to do well).

I guess I envisioned a spreadsheet with each category of race and the horses that were eligible in that race. Futuristic, huh?


Dave

[jballscalls]

Jockey agents usually have lots of great stories. When i was working in the race office at River Downs all the agents were telling me about some kid who sat outside the race office a few years ago, asking all the agents "Will you be my agent?" now apparently that was about the only english he spoke at the time and all the agents passed on him, according to them, who wants to take the book of a new kid that dont speak english. His name.........Rafael Bejarano!!

Another good one, is one of the top agents at EMD and Portland told me that when he has to spin someone, he always calls them before the draw and says "We have a problem." he told me one time the trainer said "No, WE dont have a problem, I have a problem dont I, you A**h**e" LOL always got a kick out of that.

[onefast99]

Jockey agents usually have lots of great stories. When i was working in the race office at River Downs all the agents were telling me about some kid who sat outside the race office a few years ago, asking all the agents "Will you be my agent?" now apparently that was about the only english he spoke at the time and all the agents passed on him, according to them, who wants to take the book of a new kid that dont speak english. His name.........Rafael Bejarano!!

Another good one, is one of the top agents at EMD and Portland told me that when he has to spin someone, he always calls them before the draw and says "We have a problem." he told me one time the trainer said "No, WE dont have a problem, I have a problem dont I, you A**h**e" LOL always got a kick out of that.
I used Bejarano two years ago at Gulfstream thank goodness my trainer Canet spoke spanish, he won for us that day at 9-1. Good story.

[jotb]

As a former jockey agent, the compensation usually is 25% of the jockey's gross. I know of one agent at a big track who took 20% to represent a hall of famer. I know of one agent at a small track that gets 30% but he has the leading rider 4 out of every 5 meets.

The arrangements are based on a spit and a handshake. While many jockeys are good pay, some riders are bad pay, i.e. they pay you late, short or not at all.

To be a good agent you need a good salesman. This requires three things: good people management skills, a good rolodex, and a good product. Two of the three are not enough. Being a horsemen and/or hustler would definitely help but won't be enough to overcome the above three needs.

If you care about your friend, then tell him to think twice unless a successful trainer or jockey asks you to represent someone.


Hello Stu:


I agree with you that an agent must have "people management skills" and yes an agent should have a "good rolodex" but it all depends on how you use that rolodex. If you are working the overnight (double calls) most of the time the phone call is wasted. The trainer usually won't answer and if you leave a message they only call back if they want you to backup. Most double calls should be left alone anyway because those types are not worth putting your rider on. The best types to backup are the top jocks that are usually committed to the stable but the agent needs to be certain the horse has a decent shot. Another situation in regard to a double calls would be to backup a horse where the trainer has a barn full of horses and wins races. It's a good way to get into another outfit but you have to be careful because if the horse is not much it can make your rider look bad and chances are you won't ride for that outfit again. The rolodex also comes in handy if the agent picks up the phone chasing a horse for a trainer off the grounds finding a soft spot for the horse with a purse that is more than what the horse has been running for. Hopefully you talk the trainer into it and the horse wins it certainly helps for future business. Not every trainer has a condition book for each racetrack within a circuit or knows what the extra's are on the overnight. So, not only are you helping the trainer and owner possibly but at the same time it enhances your jock's business.

You certainly need a product to sell and if you have that product it makes life much easier for the agent. It's pretty easy to hustle a "bug" especially at a racetrack known for apprentice riders. If you are at a place like Mountaineer the bug is not a good sell. Once you get the bug off the ground everyone starts calling and then it takes a good agent to make the right decisions and keep good public relations with the trainers. If you take calls then honor your calls. You might give up a few winners but it will even out down the road and it makes for good business.

My situation was not easy because I worked with an unknown journeyman jock that won 2% of his races and decided to camp out at a place where the colony was not that the strong and the purse structure was kind. I didn't know a soul when I hit that track but 18 months later we were in the top 5 in the colony. It was teamwork. I found the business and he got the job done. I took a stab and it worked. Most agents would not even attempt such a move. I wanted it bad and knew in my heart it could be done. In many cases riders make agents but agents cam make riders. I found the latter more fullfilling. Years ago I was on the frontside handicapping the races trying to find the right horse to reap the rewards through investing on the races which is a difficult task. Today is different because the windows are not important to me anymore. No need to be there! I have enough action everyday with my riders. I'm still handicapping finding the right horses for my riders and reap the rewards much easier than when I was on the frontside. It's a "lock" at the end of the day, I made a profit at the races. This was the only way I was going to be able to beat the game in the end.

jotb

[john del riccio]

Hello Stu:


I agree with you that an agent must have "people management skills" and yes an agent should have a "good rolodex" but it all depends on how you use that rolodex. If you are working the overnight (double calls) most of the time the phone call is wasted. The trainer usually won't answer and if you leave a message they only call back if they want you to backup. Most double calls should be left alone anyway because those types are not worth putting your rider on. The best types to backup are the top jocks that are usually committed to the stable but the agent needs to be certain the horse has a decent shot. Another situation in regard to a double calls would be to backup a horse where the trainer has a barn full of horses and wins races. It's a good way to get into another outfit but you have to be careful because if the horse is not much it can make your rider look bad and chances are you won't ride for that outfit again. The rolodex also comes in handy if the agent picks up the phone chasing a horse for a trainer off the grounds finding a soft spot for the horse with a purse that is more than what the horse has been running for. Hopefully you talk the trainer into it and the horse wins it certainly helps for future business. Not every trainer has a condition book for each racetrack within a circuit or knows what the extra's are on the overnight. So, not only are you helping the trainer and owner possibly but at the same time it enhances your jock's business.

You certainly need a product to sell and if you have that product it makes life much easier for the agent. It's pretty easy to hustle a "bug" especially at a racetrack known for apprentice riders. If you are at a place like Mountaineer the bug is not a good sell. Once you get the bug off the ground everyone starts calling and then it takes a good agent to make the right decisions and keep good public relations with the trainers. If you take calls then honor your calls. You might give up a few winners but it will even out down the road and it makes for good business.

My situation was not easy because I worked with an unknown journeyman jock that won 2% of his races and decided to camp out at a place where the colony was not that the strong and the purse structure was kind. I didn't know a soul when I hit that track but 18 months later we were in the top 5 in the colony. It was teamwork. I found the business and he got the job done. I took a stab and it worked. Most agents would not even attempt such a move. I wanted it bad and knew in my heart it could be done. In many cases riders make agents but agents cam make riders. I found the latter more fullfilling. Years ago I was on the frontside handicapping the races trying to find the right horse to reap the rewards through investing on the races which is a difficult task. Today is different because the windows are not important to me anymore. No need to be there! I have enough action everyday with my riders. I'm still handicapping finding the right horses for my riders and reap the rewards much easier than when I was on the frontside. It's a "lock" at the end of the day, I made a profit at the races. This was the only way I was going to be able to beat the game in the end.

jotb


i was wondering when you'd chime it....


john

[Nacumi]

Here's a daring idea, one I believe the betting public has a right to know in advance of wagering on a race: full disclosure about which agents rep which jocks in the field, particularly if they have more than one. Just like owner, breeder, trainer, pedigree, PPs and medications, blinkers and workout info are included in the program, so should those "spit and handshake" relationships be.
If there's nothing to hide and nothing untoward, why not?
I applaud the first racetrack that would consider doing it, though I don't think OZ Downs has been built. ;)

[jotb]

Here's a daring idea, one I believe the betting public has a right to know in advance of wagering on a race: full disclosure about which agents rep which jocks in the field, particularly if they have more than one. Just like owner, breeder, trainer, pedigree, PPs and medications, blinkers and workout info are included in the program, so should those "spit and handshake" relationships be.
If there's nothing to hide and nothing untoward, why not?
I applaud the first racetrack that would consider doing it, though I don't think OZ Downs has been built. ;)

Grab yourself a condition book for each track. Names of agents with their riders are posted there.

Jotb

[Nacumi]

Grab yourself a condition book for each track. Names of agents with their riders are posted there.

Jotb

I know that. I meant in the race programs themselves.

[stu]

If there's nothing to hide and nothing untoward, why not?


Jockey Agent - Jockey relationships are on record with the stewards. Many tracks have a list of these in the back of their condition books or burried on their websites. Since some riders change agents or circuits during a meet, these lists are often out of date.

For example here is Hollywood Park:
http://www.hollywoodpark.com/bet_the_races/todays_race_card/horsemen/horsemen_quick_reference/jockeys_agents_list.pdf

Oh, BTW, agents are restricted to the number of riders that they can represent so these lists never have the 'sur la mesa' relationships.

[bigmack]

Stu & jotb -

What's a typical day/week in the life?

[Nacumi]

Jockey Agent - Jockey relationships are on record with the stewards. Many tracks have a list of these in the back of their condition books or burried on their websites. Since some riders change agents or circuits during a meet, these lists are often out of date.
Oh, BTW, agents are restricted to the number of riders that they can represent so these lists never have the 'sur la mesa' relationships.

You're making my case for me. ;) I know agents can rep more than one rider, and I know that riders switch off and lists get out of date, and yes, that the information is available in condition books (which the betting public RARELY, if ever, sees) and on the web and with the racing officials. So
why not make the updated info available in the daily race programs, along with everything else, including corrected weights, late workouts, etc.? Makes for an interesting angle if you're a bettor looking for an additional one, doesn't it? If the bettor can see horse, trainer, owner and jockey stats right in front of him, why not agent stats?

[46zilzal]

It is a sad state of affairs, but the information available to horsemen is not the same as that available, even after looking, to the crowds. Horses believed to be in foal, horses that have run at unrecognized county fair meetings, even animals with legal neurectomies.....available in the racing office but no where else.

First discovered this as a hot walker and was blown away at how much is there. Also, many scratches are done for a single reason: to help out the racing secretary fill a race a few days down the line, NOT the reason most (illness, lameness) most think. Only way to know is be in that office.

Quarter cracks? Horse not training? That information is not out there on the public side.

[stu]

Stu & jotb -

What's a typical day/week in the life?

I can only comment on the lifestyle of an unsuccessful jockey agent at a track with night racing.

04:45 - 05:15 Wake Up + Shower + Breakfast

05:15 - 05:30 Commute + Buy donuts for your winning barns

05:30 - 06:00 Phone calls to arrange last minute workers with jock(s) and trainer(s)

06:00 - 08:00 Walk barns to hustle mounts for the next couple of entry days

08:00 - 10:00 Enter your calls, get spun by trainers who found better riders, and hopefully spin trainers for better mounts

10:00 - ??:00 Wait for Entries to close, help racing office hustle race-fillers

??:00 - ??:30 Participate in draw, Inform trainers of exclusions and post positions

??:00 + 1:00 Get overnight with tomorrow's extras

??:00 + 1:15 Find a more successful agent generous enough to buy lunch

14:00 - 17:00 Nap, study charts, avoid bill collector phone calls, go see a movie, run errands, and/or go to a strip club

18:00 - 18:30 Find a more successful agent generous enough to buy dinner

18:30 - 23:00 Go to the races or second job, watch your jock(s) finish mid-pack, avoid angry jockey phone calls from the jocks room, call better riders at another circuit and try to convince them to relocate to your track, and/or find a more successful agent generous enough to buy beers

18:45 - 22:59 When you can't stand anymore, leave and go home

23:00 - 04:45 Sleep

[bigmack]

:lol::lol::lol:

One of the funniest posts of all time. If you could have found a more successful agent to buy breakfest and donuts you were golden.

My friend had best stay in theatrical management as he's a renowned slacker

[Indulto]

Stu,

It seems like an insurmountable task (to do well).

I guess I envisioned a spreadsheet with each category of race and the horses that were eligible in that race. Futuristic, huh?


DaveDoesn't the Jockey Club or one of it's subsidiaries maintain a data base for use by racing secretaries?

I would think you, DS, could probably provide such a service using your database.

Does anyone track trainer preferences and successes by race conditions?

I wonder if it would be worth tracking Jockey agents in that manner as a function of entry intent as well as preparedness.

How important is to know why a jockey switches off one horse onto another in a race? I've always been curious as to why Berjerano didn't ride Sun King when the horse won the Commonwealth at KEE. Was it Zito's decision or Berjerano's agent's?

[boomman]

I can only comment on the lifestyle of an unsuccessful jockey agent at a track with night racing.

04:45 - 05:15 Wake Up + Shower + Breakfast

05:15 - 05:30 Commute + Buy donuts for your winning barns

05:30 - 06:00 Phone calls to arrange last minute workers with jock(s) and trainer(s)

06:00 - 08:00 Walk barns to hustle mounts for the next couple of entry days

08:00 - 10:00 Enter your calls, get spun by trainers who found better riders, and hopefully spin trainers for better mounts

10:00 - ??:00 Wait for Entries to close, help racing office hustle race-fillers

??:00 - ??:30 Participate in draw, Inform trainers of exclusions and post positions

??:00 + 1:00 Get overnight with tomorrow's extras

??:00 + 1:15 Find a more successful agent generous enough to buy lunch

14:00 - 17:00 Nap, study charts, avoid bill collector phone calls, go see a movie, run errands, and/or go to a strip club

18:00 - 18:30 Find a more successful agent generous enough to buy dinner

18:30 - 23:00 Go to the races or second job, watch your jock(s) finish mid-pack, avoid angry jockey phone calls from the jocks room, call better riders at another circuit and try to convince them to relocate to your track, and/or find a more successful agent generous enough to buy beers

18:45 - 22:59 When you can't stand anymore, leave and go home

23:00 - 04:45 Sleep

Stu: You outdid yourself here man! Absolutely Hysterical!!:D I love the part where you get up, eat breakfast, shower, etc, etc in 15 minutes, and then it gets even funnier from there!

:) Boomer

[stu]

Doesn't the Jockey Club or one of it's subsidiaries maintain a data base for use by racing secretaries?

Incompass Solutions, a Jockey Club subsidiary, provides this database access to racing offices who use their RTO product. Approximately, eighty percent of the racing offices used their product before July 1st. Many of the mountain time zone tracks, including The Downs at Albuquerque, used a competing product, Wintrax. Wintrax was purchased by Incompass Solutions. All racing offices which previously used Wintrax will be transitioned over to RTO by July 1st, 2010 if not sooner.

RTO has a feature called "The Brain." The Brain is described (http://www.incompasssolutions.com/productsDisplay.asp?section=2). When I worked in racing offices which used RTO, I never had access to "The Brain." I am sure that it is very powerful and am looking forward to using it.

[TEJAS KIDD]

Incompass Solutions, a Jockey Club subsidiary, provides this database access to racing offices who use their RTO product. Approximately, eighty percent of the racing offices used their product before July 1st. Many of the mountain time zone tracks, including The Downs at Albuquerque, used a competing product, Wintrax. Wintrax was purchased by Incompass Solutions. All racing offices which previously used Wintrax will be transitioned over to RTO by July 1st, 2010 if not sooner.

RTO has a feature called "The Brain." The Brain is described (http://www.incompasssolutions.com/productsDisplay.asp?section=2). When I worked in racing offices which used RTO, I never had access to "The Brain." I am sure that it is very powerful and am looking forward to using it.

Hey Stu,

Do you know if anybody can subscribe to this product, or is for racetracks/racing secretaries only?

By the way, hilarious stuff. Funny thing about it is it's true for most.