Flats racing returns to Detroit [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Otis11

11-05-2007, 08:51 AM

I grew up a block from DRC and was sad to see it go................

Same here. Although, that place had a bad reputation. I knew a lot of people who were for whatever reasons afraid to go there. The ironic thing now is that since they put the shops at that corner crime has increased tremendously.

The new track will be called Pinnacle Race Course and they plan on racing in 2008. It will be located near Metro airport (no map yet).

First race is scheduled for July 18.

Thursday night I stopped by Northville to get a live racing fix. Spoke with a few of the mullet heads there. Rumor they heard was Campbell would erect a temporary, read tents, structure for next year while the plant is being built. They heard he is very serious with plans to start in 2008. They were afraid for their jobs since the feeling is all the simul players will head there instead of Northville.

The tract of land is on Eureaka and the end of the runway. I believe it is the corner of Eureaka and what was Wayne road prior to the airport expansion a few years ago. I have to drive down that way later this week and plan on going by to see if anything has started.

WeirdWilly

11-09-2007, 02:52 AM

The tract of land is on Eureaka and the end of the runway. I believe it is the corner of Eureaka and what was Wayne road prior to the airport expansion a few years ago. I have to drive down that way later this week and plan on going by to see if anything has started.

I wonder why they aren't using the original site at Vinings and Wick? It would be a great location to hit the hotels.

I'm hopeful it comes through, and can be viable. However, while the location might be good for tourists, it really is BFE for the locals.

Otis11

11-09-2007, 07:58 AM

I wonder why they aren't using the original site at Vinings and Wick? It would be a great location to hit the hotels.

The Vinning road location is owned by Magna and I'm sure Uncle Frank wants a truck full of cash for the property. While the Eureka road site is owned by the County and Campbell was granted a sweetheart deal for the property.

However, while the location might be good for tourists, it really is BFE for the locals.

Can't argue with you there. Still, I'm out near Brighton and anything is closer then TDN or GLD. When (lets think positive) it's built I'll be visiting at least twice a week, no matter the drive.

rrbauer

11-09-2007, 08:32 AM

The only thing that is going to be done by July 18 is July 17.

It shows you how lame the leadership is in this industry. Awarding racing dates to a non-existent track in the absence of any clues about the track other than "real soon now" and not requiring some kind of bond posting to at least alleviate the insult when the "track" isn't finished. Until they get done bickering over where/when the slots will be (so they can fund purses) it will be 2009 and the track's construction completion date will be "real soon now".

They better be paying cash for whatever they do because, given the racetrack business climate, there won't be enough cash flow to service the debt.

Otis11

11-12-2007, 01:46 PM

The only thing that is going to be done by July 18 is July 17.

I'm being a little more optimisitic. If I had known about this two days sooner I would have attended...

http://www.mtoba.com/

First_Place

11-12-2007, 07:28 PM

Otis11

11-13-2007, 10:09 AM

Otis11 said:

"I knew a lot of people who were for whatever reasons afraid to go there."

Do you REALLY want me to tell you? You know why, but you don't have the balls to mention it in public.
Not sure what you're insinuating.

I never had a problem with going to DRC. I just know that the plant had a reputation as an ugly, unfriendly, run-down place to go. People I know didn't look at DRC as an entertainment destination. Face it, the place wasn't a hip, hot spot, drawing in the younger crowd.

Sunday, I made my first trip down to Raceway Park in Toledo. Now, they've done things right there. Nice layout. Great atmosphere. Lots of families. Plenty of 20 somethings. What is Toledo doing that places like DRC, Hazel Park, and Northvile are not?

Bristol

11-17-2007, 07:40 AM

Bristol

11-17-2007, 07:52 AM

Not sure what you're insinuating.

I never had a problem with going to DRC. I just know that the plant had a reputation as an ugly, unfriendly, run-down place to go. People I know didn't look at DRC as an entertainment destination. Face it, the place wasn't a hip, hot spot, drawing in the younger crowd.

Sunday, I made my first trip down to Raceway Park in Toledo. Now, they've done things right there. Nice layout. Great atmosphere. Lots of families. Plenty of 20 somethings. What is Toledo doing that places like DRC, Hazel Park, and Northvile are not?

If DRC was run down, HP was worse. DRC had a pretty decent clubhouse and Ladbroke tried their best to set it up well for simulcasting in both the clubhouse and grandstand. It's not like the legislature, the harness people, the casino people, and the church people wanted to let them expand in any area...slots may have saved the place, at least for awhile.

Glad to hear Raceway Park is still there....used to race thoroughbreds back in the day. Do they still play Bridge Over the River Kwai before each race? They did so for many, many years.:) Raceway Park races at night, yes?

Tampa Bay Downs is another example of tracks doing things right....without slots, too.

Bristol

11-17-2007, 08:00 AM

DRC used to be in my backyard - but the new one, if ever built, won't be. I'll still have to make the trip to Northville. :)

Shouldn't be that difficult for you, right off 275 and 94, it's all E-way.

joeyspicks

11-17-2007, 08:04 AM

Used to go to DRC 3 to 4 times per week. NEVER a fear !

This is where it all started for me. I met some great characters and was sorry

to see it close. Yes it could have been run better (understatement) but I was

NEVER afraid..

Bristol

11-17-2007, 08:13 AM

I wonder why they aren't using the original site at Vinings and Wick? It would be a great location to hit the hotels.

I'm hopeful it comes through, and can be viable. However, while the location might be good for tourists, it really is BFE for the locals.

The original thought was to try to draw in the Ann Arbor area crowd.

I hope it works, too, but if DRC failed, what's going to be different here? Too bad Mr Campbell didn't buy DRC as foundationally it was a good facility, just needed some renovations and modernizations, free parking and cheaper admissions. There was room to put in a turf course.

mrharness

11-17-2007, 10:30 AM

Shouldn't be that difficult for you, right off 275 and 94, it's all E-way.

You're right as far as not being difficult but I am up in FH, it is the distance and the price of gas! Not saying I'll never go, I definitiely want to visit from time to time.

NoCal Boy

11-17-2007, 10:53 AM

My sister went to school in Toledo so we used to go to Raceway Park when visiting to catch the trotters. My father, a vet, loved that they played Bridge over the River Kwai before the races:)

Otis11

11-17-2007, 01:26 PM

I hope it works, too, but if DRC failed, what's going to be different here? Too bad Mr Campbell didn't buy DRC as foundationally it was a good facility, just needed some renovations and modernizations, free parking and cheaper admissions. There was room to put in a turf course.
From what I understand DRC didn't so much fail. They were making money the year it closed. Problem was, the property it was siting on was worth a lot more then what was being generated.

I'm speculating here, but I think Mr. Campbell was involved in trying to buy DRC. His plan was to move TB's to GLD temporarily and have a new track in metro Detroit built. Then MAGNA got involved and really messed things up...

Bristol

11-18-2007, 07:09 AM

It seems everything Magna touches turns into pooey. People who have been to Gulfstream say they ruined it, plus it has not turned into the windfall they thought it would. There is always something troublesome going on about Pimlico. Magna has a new CEO every month. Have they actually ever MADE any money?

I trust Mr. Campbell is smart enough to look at whatever Tampa Bay Downs is doing and get some good ideas from them. And any other track that is doing well without slots.

Bristol

11-18-2007, 07:19 AM

Otis11

11-18-2007, 01:12 PM

So...we're still waiting to see yours.
I never had a problem going. Used to "sneak" in when I was still in high school back in the early to mid 80's. Then when I returned to Michigan I visited as often as I could, work permitting.

People I knew always talked about the "crowd" or type of people who would be seen there. These are the same type of people who think I'm a "degenerate" because I play the horses online. Mind you, a few of these guys spend more on their golf game annually then I do playing the horses. So, go figure.

Lets face it. If you took someone who was only mildly interested in the game to HP or Northville they are most likely going to compare it to a trip to the casinos. The casinos win hands down because they're ... what's the word I'm looking for ... cleaner? inviting? Hopefully, you can understand what I'm trying to articulate.

My point I was trying to make is that when/if this new track is built they need to erase any bad stigma there is in this area about going to the races. Promoting a family friendly and fun entertainment destination should be priority number one.

Whitehos

11-19-2007, 11:34 PM

As one who spent most of his adult life at DRC and before that my juvie years
the only fear I ever had was when that rent-a-cop chaced me after I jumped the fence.
The Michigan Racing Commission is 2nd only to Illinois when it comes to corruption. Our present Governess is owned by the owners of Hazel Park. Hazel Park Harness is the only track that you can wager on credit and cash bad checks.
If you believe these new people, that they will build a race track ready to race in 7 months you probably believe they might build a new race track. They won't. Magna pulled out for reasons other than money.
Whitehos

rrbauer

11-20-2007, 08:24 AM

My point I was trying to make is that when/if this new track is built they need to erase any bad stigma there is in this area about going to the races. Promoting a family friendly and fun entertainment destination should be priority number one.

FBI says Detroit most unsafe city in U.S. How much more bad stigma can you stand? Last population figs I saw indicated that Detroit was losing population (I guess due to decline in auto industry jobs). Other than a few business trips to Livonia some twenty years ago, I know little about the city except what I read/hear. But, what about the business climate there makes building a racetrack (or anything else) a winner?

Otis11

11-20-2007, 08:25 AM

The Michigan Racing Commission is 2nd only to Illinois
Her inaction and slowness to respond is amazing.
Magna pulled out for reasons other than money.

Magna's stock is in the crapper. GLD was losing money. Slots are not an option in Michigan. What other reason could there be for Magna to run away from this area?

SMOO

11-20-2007, 09:36 AM

FBI says Detroit most unsafe city in U.S. How much more bad stigma can you stand? Last population figs I saw indicated that Detroit was losing population (I guess due to decline in auto industry jobs). Other than a few business trips to Livonia some twenty years ago, I know little about the city except what I read/hear. But, what about the business climate there makes building a racetrack (or anything else) a winner?

"Detroit" does not equal the Detroit area. The suburbs still have a lot of people and a lot of money, and are safer than most places. This money supports 3 casinos plus the Windsor casino just across the border, not to mention various racetracks in the area. People would go to a new racino if such a thing was allowed, but as others have stated it is not going to happen via present politics.

Otis11

11-20-2007, 11:56 AM

FBI says Detroit most unsafe city in U.S. ...

But, two or three of the 'burbs of Detroit made the top 20 for the safest cities in the U.S.

SMOO

11-20-2007, 12:05 PM

But, two or three of the 'burbs of Detroit made the top 20 for the safest cities in the U.S.

This is correct. Also, Oakland County is one of the richest counties in the U.S.

Whitehos

11-20-2007, 12:35 PM

Northville Downs the only harness track in Wayne County{Detroit) began a law suit against Magna building the track. Just the beginning of delaying the construction as lonhg as possible. This proposed new track is 5 minutes from my home.(*I live under the runway of Det. Metro. )I won't live long enough to run over there.

Whitehos who wonders why her Governess will not let us Michiganders wager on Michigan tracks?

Otis11

11-20-2007, 02:02 PM

Northville Downs the only harness track in Wayne County{Detroit) began a law suit against Magna building the track.
That lawsuit was dropped before Magna quit their plans.

Whitehos who wonders why her Governess will not let us Michiganders wager on Michigan tracks?
Same here! If nothing else, why not pipe the live feed through a system like they do with Keno and let us wager off site at bars and restaurants? Or, start an in State phone wagering system only for MI tracks?

WeirdWilly

11-25-2007, 09:09 PM

This is correct. Also, Oakland County is one of the richest counties in the U.S.

This is true. As I understand it, Michigan has the highest rate of boat ownership and the largest number of golf courses per capita. It's just our urban areas, and their historical image, really drag the area down.

We really do like getting out and doing stuff here. An attractive, well-run venue would stand a good chance if they can make a day at the track an event.

The original location would have been so much better, though! Quick shuttle to and from the hotels...heck, it was walking distance from the Metropolitan! South end right now, there ain't much besides a Shell Station and a mini strip center.

Bristol

11-26-2007, 07:38 PM

Haha, I'm still trying to find out what I was supposed to be afraid of at DRC.

At worst, there was some riff-raff hanging around who were doing drugs in the grandstand bathrooms, but that was a very small minority. I hope the new track doesn't draw in that same type. Every track has its regular drunks and obnoxious hecklers. I would hope any disorderly people get kicked out.

Bristol

11-28-2007, 07:58 AM

Found this at Thoroughbred Times:

Detroit handicapper Coffman dead at 85

Longtime Detroit newspaper handicapper Al Coffman died in a Michigan hospice on November 21, his 85th birthday.

Coffman wrote for the Detroit Free Press from 1940-’78 and the Detroit News for another 11 years, according to his obituary in the Free Press. Coffman was probably best known by his handicapping moniker—Al Speed.

Coffman’s real name was kept secret until the Free Press started promoting him to highlight his record vs. other public selectors. Regarded as the best public handicapper in Detroit, Coffman was chosen as No. 1 in the country by Turf and Sport Digest in 1967.

“I’m his wife, so I’m a little prejudiced, but he left a wonderful legacy,” Ilene Coffman told the Free Press. “He was a workhorse. He wrote about a lot of the big names, but he was just as familiar with the little guys, whether it was an owner or a trainer with one horse or a jockey that wasn’t a household name. He got a lot of accolades.”

Otis11

12-06-2007, 10:15 AM

Thought I'd pass this update along. Going to try and make it to this press conference if I can weasle out of work.

http://www.mtoba.com/PressConfsm.pdf (http://www.mtoba.com/PressConfsm.pdf)

Bristol

12-06-2007, 10:28 AM

Otis, if you're able to make that meeting, *do* post what was said, thanks!

Otis11

12-07-2007, 05:23 PM

Otis, if you're able to make that meeting, *do* post what was said, thanks!

Just returned from the press conference. There was a lot of back slapping and name dropping. Here are the main points Jerry Campbell spoke about:

Either a 1 mile or 1 1/8 mile dirt track built by Joe King. Will take 45 days to put the track in.

Plans for an inner turf track later.

Temporary structures like used during the Super Bowl.

Pole barns. Takes 90 days to build.

Sounded like construction will start around March 1.

WJR radio host is one of the investors.

Regarding the lawsuit Northville had against Magna. This track is 2x the distance from N'ville that DRC was so there's no problem there. The lawsuit was brought up by someone vying for the Magna track lic. and N'ville joined that suit. Since Pinnacle was the only lic. applicant this time around they do not see any issues.

DRF guy asked about the legality of additional gaming in the State without voter approval. Pari mutel is exempt and while slots would be nice their plan for now does not include slots.

Plans for entertainment between races to keep the fans interested.

Lots of family activities.

Wants to be like Saratoga but realizes they can never BE Saratoga. Wants to use the Saratoga model.

ArlJim78

12-07-2007, 06:01 PM

what families are going to drive out past the airport to go to the track?
I think they're smokin crack if they think this will be the Saratoga of the midwest. like people will flock to the idyllic pastural setting of southern romulus.

Whitehos

12-07-2007, 10:45 PM

Otis11 ,I too was at the "news conference". You did a commendable job of summerizing that which occured.
I only went to ask the Governess a few questions in regard to her position on tb racing in Michigan. To my not surprise she stayed home and sent a usless representitive and my purpose for attending was destroyed. I did however get to meet many old acqaintances both from racing and government service. As I shook their hand my left hand held on to my wallet.

Just to add to what Otis11 said, I wonder why opening on July 18th is so important that they have to start off as a sand lot operation? This approach will do nothing for the benefit of the industry.
Whitehos

Bristol

12-09-2007, 05:12 PM

Thanks for the info, Otis, good summary.

Hopefully Mr Campbell can make this work.

Otis11

12-09-2007, 08:19 PM

...I wonder why opening on July 18th is so important that they have to start off as a sand lot operation?
Probably has something to do with the purse money in the State equine fund. If there is not a State TB meeting of x number of days then the fund for the TB purses will go to the Standards. Not sure if the TB crowd can get that fund back in subsequent years.

Otis11

12-09-2007, 08:21 PM

Hopefully Mr Campbell can make this work.

He sounded very upbeat and energetic about the track. I had to leave after the DRF guy asked his question. The one thing I wanted to ask would have been, "Is there anything that could prevent this track from becomming a reality?"

Bristol

12-10-2007, 08:23 AM

He sounded very upbeat and energetic about the track. I had to leave after the DRF guy asked his question. The one thing I wanted to ask would have been, "Is there anything that could prevent this track from becomming a reality?"

The Detroit casino people may try very hard to mess this up.

wilderness

12-11-2007, 01:21 PM

The Michigan Racing Commission is 2nd only to Illinois when it comes to corruption. Our present Governess is owned by the owners of Hazel Park. Hazel Park Harness is the only track that you can wager on credit and cash bad checks.
Whitehos

Perhaps you not aware that the Commssioner and Asst Comm are appointed by the Governor. As a result, their terms run concurrently with the present Governor.
When a new Governor comes to town, a new Commissioner does as well.

The remaining staff at the "Office of the Racing Commisioner" are non-political appointess and most held long term employment with the ORC-Dept of Ag.
To lump this very dedicated staff into political innuendo is a terrible discredit to their longterm efforts to serve both the general public and the horsemen.

wilderness

12-11-2007, 01:27 PM

A reason that a new facility could open in 2008 is because the General Purse Fund will have already been held in escrow and budgeted.

Were these funds not used during 2008, it's most likely that political agendas would either convert the funds to a non-horse budget or at the very least disburse the funds to harness racing.

The real test, when and if, a facility opens without audience in 2008, would be in their 2009 season when there would not be any carryover of the General Fund Purse Distribution except what the new facility themselves established in the previous year (2008 in this instance.)

wilderness

12-11-2007, 01:29 PM

The Detroit casino people may try very hard to mess this up.

The Casino folks could give a rats a-s-s about horse racing.

Horse racing alone, is no threat to their operations.

Whitehos

12-11-2007, 02:43 PM

No way wilderness. You are so right about the casinos not caring about racing can take from them.......nothing. And yes the purse fund is the big consideration for the 7-18-08 opening even if its a fair type track. However you have been here long enough to know that the hardworking staff of the racing commission has done nothing for the fans and very little for the horsemen. If only they would police the industry they could help the ligit horsemen. By the way, I met an old acquaintance at the meeting who I know to have owned 7 of 9 horses in one race at DRC. Tragic but true.

Whitehos

Mag

01-03-2008, 05:20 PM

Recent article:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080101/METRO01/801010311/1410/METRO01

Tuesday, January 1, 2008
Huron Township horse track plans trot toward starting gate

Darren A. Nichols / The Detroit News

HURON TOWNSHIP -- Plans to return thoroughbred horse racing to Metro Detroit are galloping along and on schedule for a July opening, developer Jerry Campbell said Monday.

Campbell is close to sealing a deal with Wayne County to purchase land for the project, said a spokeswoman for Executive Robert Ficano. Campbell said the $142 million project is set to begin construction in March near Detroit Metropolitan Airport.

"We're on schedule," Campbell said. "We're working hard to be able to get construction going by the first of March. It's a very tight schedule, but we think it's doable. Between the first of March and the first of June, we'll be busy."

Jackson-based Post It Stables Inc. is seeking to build the facility on a 240-acre site south of Interstate 275 near Eureka. Called the Pinnacle Race Course, the project would include 20 skyboxes and a 200,000-square-foot retail area.

The project would employ 1,400 workers at the track and create 2,300 temporary construction jobs. Developers estimate the project could bring $1.5 billion in economic benefits to Michigan.

Campbell, 67, founder of Republic Bancorp and chairman of Citizens Republic Bancorp, said the company submitted some additional paperwork last week to the Michigan Racing Commissioner's Office that was needed to complete the license application. The deadline was Monday.

The license must be approved before construction begins. Officials for the racing office weren't available for comment Monday.

The track is expected to revive thoroughbred racing in Michigan. Great Lakes Downs, a 5/8 th-mile track in Muskegon, closed in November. Metro Detroit's last such track, the Detroit Race Course in Livonia, closed in 1998.

Campbell's proposal comes after Magna Entertainment Corp. of Ontario withdrew plans last summer for a similar venture nearby, citing the economy and business losses.

Campbell, who sits on Magna's board of directors, said he envisions a grand opening July 18.

"We look forward to getting back into the metropolitan Detroit area and having a great venue. We haven't had any setbacks," Campbell said. "It's coming along good and we're pleased with it."

You can reach Darren A. Nichols at (734) 462-2190 or dnichols@detnews.com.

Otis11

01-03-2008, 09:25 PM

Mag

01-04-2008, 02:29 PM

There was a similar article in one of the locals. The Detroit News omitted the piece about some local congressman who is opposed to the track (read: didn't get the appropriate kick backs) and is going to try and stymie the construction based on ... get this ... seagulls. Yep, birds. The guy is claiming the track will attract a large number of seagulls and with the proximity of the track to the runway he is saying it will be an aviation hazzard.

Wow. It's always SOMETHING, isn't it? I don't know that the new track will get enough of a crowd to make enough garbage to even attract seagulls. Yeah, sounds like someone wants their palm greased.

SMOO

01-04-2008, 04:47 PM

Wow. It's always SOMETHING, isn't it? I don't know that the new track will get enough of a crowd to make enough garbage to even attract seagulls. Yeah, sounds like someone wants their palm greased.

The local casinos now own the politicos in Michigan, so any competition as far as gambling will be fought, slots or not.

Mag

01-17-2008, 08:10 AM

But the locals are none too happy...

http://www.monroenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080116/NEWS01/684297981

http://www.monroenews.com/assets/jpg/MP36771116.JPG

http://www.monroenews.com/assets/jpg/MP36772116.JPG

Otis11

01-17-2008, 09:06 AM

I understand the whole NIMBY thing. However, these people live at the end of a major airport runway and are concerned about increased noise levels??? Sheesh!!!

Traffic problems? If you exit 275 and head East on Eureka to what would be the track entrance, there's what, a total of five houses along that one or two mile stretch of road. So, you're going to forego a possible major economic impact over five households?

And to the gomer who was worried about increased crime. I'd like to point out that since DRC left the crime rate for that area has skyrocketed. Also read somewhere a statistic comparing crime rates between casino areas and race tracks and the rate at a race track was drastically lower then the casino.

Mag

01-17-2008, 09:25 AM

And to the gomer who was worried about increased crime. I'd like to point out that since DRC left the crime rate for that area has skyrocketed. Also read somewhere a statistic comparing crime rates between casino areas and race tracks and the rate at a race track was drastically lower then the casino.

Somehow, that doesn't surprise me. ;)

The drawings of the new track look really, really nice! A 1-1/8 mile main track and 1-mile turf course....that will be excellent!:ThmbUp:

Otis11

01-17-2008, 10:01 AM

The drawings of the new track look really, really nice! A 1-1/8 mile main track and 1-mile turf course....that will be excellent!:ThmbUp:

For what it's worth... I attended one of the press conferences regarding the track back in December. Jerry Campbell stated they were not sure if the track would be 1 mile or a 1 1/8 mile. No mention as to the surface composition. The turf course is planned for later in the development.

I was kind of disappointed to read that it would be afternoon racing only. No evening racing.