This is Depressing-Weather for BC

[alysheba88]

Rain, rain, and more rain scheduled. With wind and thunderstorms thrown in. Just an unmitigated disaster.Cant see how they can possibly run on the turf. Have had no rain most of the year. Nothing but blue skys this month and this week is just a horror show. Attendance is going to be real low. I cant see everyone coming out to get soaked

[headhawg]

Is off-the-turf a real possibility? It doesn't seem like the powers-that-be would do that unless it was determined that there was increased danger to riders/horses. That would make this the crappiest BC ever if that happened, and horseracing doesn't really need that right now.

[DanG]

At least 30+ years ago I sat and listened to Russ Harris beg racetracks for a tarp to cover the turf course in these circumstances. The method doesn’t really matter, but something like a retractable mechanism attached to an inner (or outer rail) to avoid these situations. The costs would be absorbed quickly in handle as the pool hit off the turf is a fact.

30+ years from now it will occur to someone and they will be hailed as a genius. :bang:

[alysheba88]

I have to think off the turf is a real possibility. I remember when it was a Bog at Belmont a few years ago and we are getting worse rain then back then. And plenty more on the way

[Zman179]

There is no way the BC pulls the races off the turf unless the course is ruled unsafe due to heavy waterlogging. They'll just run on a heavy course and run the races european style. It's not like they won't have seven months to repair the course.

[alysheba88]

There is no way the BC pulls the races off the turf unless the course is ruled unsafe due to heavy waterlogging. They'll just run on a heavy course and run the races european style. It's not like they won't have seven months to repair the course.

Well yes no one is saying they will pull races off turf for the heck of it. Will be a safety issue.

[Tom]

Don't they rub on wet grass in Europe?
I thought the off turf reason here were mainly to protect the course.
OCICBW

[Grits]

Every turf course differs, I could count on five fingers the number of days I've seen races come OFF of the turf at Keeneland in the last 10 years.

I would be quite surprised if these races were taken off the turf.

[Zman179]

Don't they rub on wet grass in Europe?
I thought the off turf reason here were mainly to protect the course.
OCICBW

True, they do pull races off the turf here sooner because they might have to use the turf course for 6 months, whereas in Europe they can change courses every day and repair the course in time for the next meeting.

[alysheba88]

Think people might be underestimating how much rain has fallen and is scheduled to fall.

[jma]

Think people might be underestimating how much rain has fallen and is scheduled to fall.

I'm in NJ and it is amazing how we had basically no rain for two months and now suddenly here it comes! With that said, I think they'll stay on the turf for all of the Breeders Cup races. There's no need to protect the turf course, which is one of the main reasons to take races off. The current Monmouth course drains well, and I think it can handle four soggy turf races in two days. As far as rainfall totals, it's not light, but for example the forecast for tomorrow for Oceanport is half an inch of rain. I think they could handle that without it being a total quagmire with ponding water and the like. If it turns out to be three inches or something, then it could be a real issue.

[jma]

To follow up my own post, I just heard between 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 inches of rain are expected between Friday afternoon and Saturday afternoon. So, it won't be pretty.

[alysheba88]

And more rain on Saturday. I think many people with tickets will stay home. I very well may be one of them

[Vindicationbcjc02]

i love how the weather channel has sunday as "sunny and clear"

[maxwell]

If I remember correctly, when Woodbine held the BC it rained for 10 straight days, turned sunny and warm for BC Day, and then snowed the next day! :D

The racing Gods hold all the aces.

[Pace Cap'n]

Don't they rub on wet grass in Europe?


Wet, dry, they'll rub on just about anything.

[Marshall Bennett]

Postpone the event !! Championships shouldn't be judged in the driving rain on a sloppy course , nor should grass races be determained on a chewed up and destroyed turf course ... save the best for a better day !!

[Zman179]

Postpone the event !! Championships shouldn't be judged in the driving rain on a sloppy course , nor should grass races be determained on a chewed up and destroyed turf course ... save the best for a better day !!

Sure they should. A true champion racehorse will put forth his best effort regardless of the conditions.

Besides, have you ever been in New Jersey in November? Put it this way, they might be on the beach at Monmouth, but it sure won't be beach weather. Better to take 60's and rain over clear and the 30's.

[orrug2k]

Clearly this isnt nascar and we dont postpone our races, Too much logistically has been set forth..I went to one BC at CD in the rain. Total longshots and one horse won that day that was a chalk... Personal Ensign.. ever headr of her.. She brought her game. They will stomp the divots after each turf race so who cares if its messed up.

[ponyplayerdotca]

Doesn't this lend more validity to the idea of picking one site in a weather-friendly region to be the permanent host of the event?

Hosting a huge outdoor event of any kind on the east coast in late October is just not sound business thinking.

Would you plan an outdoor wedding for late October on the east coast, with no option of moving indoors or rescheduling the date?

Clumsy analogy, yes, but I'm trying to illustrate how an important event needs to be planned with all possible issues covered.

And this year's Breeders' Cup will be awful to experience because of the heavy rains (assuming the forecast doesn't change).

I'm sure the owners/trainers/jockeys don't care much, as long as they get paid for winning.

But the Breeders' Cup is also supposed to be about attracting fans and excitement to the sport annually. And that simply can't be done in a terrential downpour.

[Zman179]

Doesn't this lend more validity to the idea of picking one site in a weather-friendly region to be the permanent host of the event?

Hosting a huge outdoor event of any kind on the east coast in late October is just not sound business thinking.

Would you plan an outdoor wedding for late October on the east coast, with no option of moving indoors or rescheduling the date?

Clumsy analogy, yes, but I'm trying to illustrate how an important event needs to be planned with all possible issues covered.

And this year's Breeders' Cup will be awful to experience because of the heavy rains (assuming the forecast doesn't change).

I'm sure the owners/trainers/jockeys don't care much, as long as they get paid for winning.

But the Breeders' Cup is also supposed to be about attracting fans and excitement to the sport annually. And that simply can't be done in a terrential downpour.

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooring. Like holding the Super Bowl in Southern California all the time.

[alysheba88]

Doesn't this lend more validity to the idea of picking one site in a weather-friendly region to be the permanent host of the event?

Hosting a huge outdoor event of any kind on the east coast in late October is just not sound business thinking.

Would you plan an outdoor wedding for late October on the east coast, with no option of moving indoors or rescheduling the date?

Clumsy analogy, yes, but I'm trying to illustrate how an important event Yneeds to be planned with all possible issues covered.

And this year's Breeders' Cup will be awful to experience because of the heavy rains (assuming the forecast doesn't change).


I'm sure the owners/trainers/jockeys don't care much, as long as they get paid for winning.

But the Breeders' Cup is also supposed to be about attracting fans and excitement to the sport annually. And that simply can't be done in a terrential downpour.

Yeah why not have in San Diego this year. Give me a break.

Do you remember the 1988 BC? The weather and host?

Weather has been perfect for a month and will be good again next week. Just unfortunate timing thats all

[gIracing]

Yeah why not have in San Diego this year. Give me a break.

Do you remember the 1988 BC? The weather and host?

Weather has been perfect for a month and will be good again next week. Just unfortunate timing thats all

I dont' mind a little rain.

All I ask is I can actually SEE the race. that's it. The last race on the card, actuallyt he last 2, I can live with. NOthing won that wouldnt' have won otherwise. Myabe nownownow. As long as Eibar Coa wants to play speedracer, maryfield will get a pace she can run at and when. Corinthian would have won that race if they ran it in the middle of Dubai.

[Zman179]

Yeah why not have in San Diego this year. Give me a break.

LMAO. Imagine if it had been held at Del Mar this year in the middle of all those wildfires. Then what would have everyone said?
At least Monmouth doesn't have to worry about anything burning up tomorrow. :lol:

[ponyplayerdotca]

Zman179 wrote, "Boooooooooooooooooooooooooring. Like holding the Super Bowl in Southern California all the time."

Well, they host the Dubai World Cup and Carnival at Nad Al Sheba every year, and you don't hear anyone complaining. The horse racing industry doesn't seem to mind going over to the same location every year for that event.


Zman179 wrote, "LMAO. Imagine if it had been held at Del Mar this year in the middle of all those wildfires. Then what would have everyone said?
At least Monmouth doesn't have to worry about anything burning up tomorrow."


Okay, so California is out (fires, and too far for Europeans to travel). Eastern seaboard is out (colder, adverse weather conditions, too far for California horses to travel).

Why not pick middle America locations on a four year rotational basis?

Maybe Churchill, Lone Star, Arlington, and one other track?

It sure beats watching that mess at Monmouth Park we all saw today.

One or two horses per race handle the soup, and the rest can't run in it. Whoooppppeeee!

That's exciting. :ThmbDown:

[o_crunk]

yeah...imagine if they had it at del mar this year? i can picture the flames on the back stretch!

i was there today...i wouldn't call it a 'torrential downpour'...mostly just misting light rain for the first 4 or 5 races that turned into regular old late fall rain. perhaps tomorrow will be the torrential downpour that everyone wants so they can trash MTH. looking at the radar...if the weather tomorrow is anything like it was today....i'll take it because tomorrow sure looks like it will be worse rain-wise.

it's just some bad weather...it happens. just like it could happen at CD, arlington, gulfstream...wherever. and don't even get me started on the NY contingent harping about BEL. would have been the same weather as today at MTH.

[Zman179]

Well, they host the Dubai World Cup and Carnival at Nad Al Sheba every year, and you don't hear anyone complaining. The horse racing industry doesn't seem to mind going over to the same location every year for that event.

Well, it's a little different when the owners of Nad Al Sheba are covering all transportation and lodging costs. Plus they put up the purse! You put up that kind of money without asking zero in return (no nomination fees, nothing,) you should be able to run it wherever you want. If I owned a racetrack, and I was putting up millions of dollars of my own money, then I would want the races at my racetrack too.
Run for a $6 million purse and you don't have to put up a dime yourself? Biggest bargain in racing.


Why not pick middle America locations on a four year rotational basis?

Maybe Churchill, Lone Star, Arlington, and one other track?

It sure beats watching that mess at Monmouth Park we all saw today.

The midwest? As volatile as their weather can be? Chicagoans can tell you about quite a few snow storms that have hit in late October/early November. Churchill's first BC was run on a sloppy track in 1988. Didn't stop them from holding the event a few more times, did it?
Bottom line: you cannot control mother nature. Until you construct an indoor racetrack, the weather will always be a factor.

[Kelso]

it's just some bad weather...it happens. just like it could happen at CD, arlington, gulfstream...wherever. and don't even get me started on the NY contingent harping about BEL. would have been the same weather as today at MTH.


Spoke with perhaps a dozen BC vets today - regulars who attend every year, regardless of location. A couple said they'd rather have today's drizzle than Arlington's 40 degrees. (MTH high was upper-50s, maybe 60. Saturday forecast high is 70.) A couple others said Belmont is often cold - and always depressing - in autumn.

Just can't please everybody, nor assure anything.

I appreciate the opportunity to see just one, up close and personal, without having to hock my car for airfare and a hotel. :jump:

[alysheba88]

Zman179 wrote, "Boooooooooooooooooooooooooring. Like holding the Super Bowl in Southern California all the time."

Well, they host the Dubai World Cup and Carnival at Nad Al Sheba every year, and you don't hear anyone complaining. The horse racing industry doesn't seem to mind going over to the same location every year for that event.


Zman179 wrote, "LMAO. Imagine if it had been held at Del Mar this year in the middle of all those wildfires. Then what would have everyone said?
At least Monmouth doesn't have to worry about anything burning up tomorrow."


Okay, so California is out (fires, and too far for Europeans to travel). Eastern seaboard is out (colder, adverse weather conditions, too far for California horses to travel).

Why not pick middle America locations on a four year rotational basis?

Maybe Churchill, Lone Star, Arlington, and one other track?

It sure beats watching that mess at Monmouth Park we all saw today.

One or two horses per race handle the soup, and the rest can't run in it. Whoooppppeeee!

That's exciting. :ThmbDown:

There is not changing weather in Louisville, Kentucky? Did you see the 88 BC? ow about 89 Derby? 94 Derby? Smarty Jones Derby? and so forth.

Part of being a great horse is meeting different challenges. If a horse can only win on a fast track then maybe its not a champion. Every horse that won yesterday was completely deserving

[richrosa]

There is not changing weather in Louisville, Kentucky? Did you see the 88 BC? ow about 89 Derby? 94 Derby? Smarty Jones Derby? and so forth.

Part of being a great horse is meeting different challenges. If a horse can only win on a fast track then maybe its not a champion. Every horse that won yesterday was completely deserving

Weather is a factor, but Churchill knows how to handle the big event. It has the right facility,in the right place. I for one vote for putting it there every year.

[DanG]

Churchill / Belmont / Santa Anita (and / or, Hollywood)

Three circuit rotation that the public can get in rhythm with.

Also…Part of the expense of getting this cash cow is an over-night tarp for the surfaces if rain is forecast. Not to mention a tarp underneath Hank Goldberg during lunch. :faint:

[alysheba88]

People who I trust have told me the BCs at Belmont have had little atmosphere. The weather has been bad ( I am assuming people realize that it is raining there today?).

I love the track but please enough already with the stuff about only three tracks having the "right" to host the event. Belmont has shown nothing as far as deserving it again.

I can guarantee you, that 27,000 fans would not have shown up yesterday at Belmont.

Most weekends Monmouth outdraws Belmont.

[alysheba88]

Weather is a factor, but Churchill knows how to handle the big event. It has the right facility,in the right place. I for one vote for putting it there every year.

Implicit in your post is the people in NJ dont.

The Hambletonian and Haskell get big crowds every year. Haskell more than are going to the BC

[DanG]

I love the track but please enough already with the stuff about only three tracks having the "right" to host the event. Belmont has shown nothing as far as deserving it again.

Fair points 88, but we disagree…

I was at the Haskell this year btw and it was a nightmare getting in bets. I stood their trying to picture a major cup crowd and I saw potentially several issues.

I’m as provincial as anyone concerning NJ…I lived 10 minutes from Monmouth for years, but there is a reason for example many top Euro’s / hi-profile people etc…did not look at our Cup this year. You need 4-star hotels / restaurants / night life for one thing. It’s not realistic to tell the Sultan of Brunei he can grab a dog at the Windmill after the classic. Besides, if you get their after Goldberg their ’86 anyway.

Yes, I’m eating crow and a complete hypocrite. I was ecstatic when Monmouth got the Cup and weather not withstanding I now see some drawbacks.

BTW: I read an interesting idea somewhere…Turn our BC into a 3-day event similar to what Royal Ascot does. Thursday – Saturday and spread a series of various races over period. I would say Thur-Sun but God forbid we step on the NFL’s toes! :bang:

[Zman179]

Turns out that Churchill would have had some problems too...

http://www.kentucky.com/302/story/214181.html

[alysheba88]

The whole thing with the Euros has nothing to do with restaurants. Its not like NYC, AC are far away.

It had more to do with the tighter turns on the turf course.

I have been to the Belmont several times, with smaller crowds than Haskell and have had significant issues with betting.

One of the reasons I love Belmont so much for non Belmont days is no one goes there and you have the place to yourself and can actually bet.

By the way I could give a flying F what the Sultan of anywhere thinks about anything in this country :)

[alysheba88]

Havent had a problem with any of the BC sites. Those fixating on where its held and whining about weather are missing the boat entirely about what this event is about.

Give horseplayers something to bitch about and they will to no end.

Always someone or something else's fault they lose.

[DeanT]

My racing channel just flicked on, and I got greeted by a camera shot of water pellets and a group of kids singing, looking like they would rather be home playing a video game instead of in the rain. Man that sucks.

I thought weather had "patterns". Is there a giant cloud over New Jersey that doesnt move? (oh, oh........ Jersey haters, dont answer that).

Anyway, the brief thought that "maybe it is nice this morning" didn't take long to get quashed.

[DanG]

By the way I could give a flying F what the Sultan of anywhere thinks about anything in this country :)

You win!

Enjoy...

[DeanT]

When I got past 30 I started to be a softee. Dan help me out with this. I think you are like me.

All that work by MTH, all the work to put a good face on the game, which has been falling in real terms many years now. Horses, trainers, grooms, everyone who got horses ready for the big day.

Doesnt that, as a fan, or horse owner just depress the hell out of you when you look at these pictures?

[alysheba88]

When I got past 30 I started to be a softee. Dan help me out with this. I think you are like me.

All that work by MTH, all the work to put a good face on the game, which has been falling in real terms many years now. Horses, trainers, grooms, everyone who got horses ready for the big day.

Doesnt that, as a fan, or horse owner just depress the hell out of you when you look at these pictures?

Dean, I started the thread, lol, so yes I agree it is depressing from a fans point of view or someone looking to the attend the races. The fact that Monmouth put so much into it and people who have never been there before wont ever know the real Monmouth. That people will use this excuse to whine that the BC only belongs at certain tracks. All that does suck. But most importantly from a betting perspective I actually welcome it, have always done well with off tracks.

[alysheba88]

I mean this is BC day. The day they hand out money. If you cant enjoy this day regardless of weather something is wrong. Yes ideally would be 75 and sunny like last weekend.

I was wrong about the disaster part too. They had a good turnout yesterday and track held up fine

[DanG]

When I got past 30 I started to be a softee. Dan help me out with this. I think you are like me.

All that work by MTH, all the work to put a good face on the game, which has been falling in real terms many years now. Horses, trainers, grooms, everyone who got horses ready for the big day.

Doesnt that, as a fan, or horse owner just depress the hell out of you when you look at these pictures?
It does Dean, but maybe more so for me because I love the place.

I had people over yesterday and a few had never seen Monmouth and I’m telling them how beautiful the track is etc…Their watching the broadcast and it could have been (pick a track) virtually anywhere in North America.

Can’t do a thing about it and I never said I’m not loving every second of it…but as you said…There is an undeniable sadness surrounding this because such an effort was made. Those that know Monmouth realize nature broadsided a great opportunity.

PS: Sorry to “step” on your thread 88…By all means…If I may use the line from a friend…Carry on...Carry on! :)

[Greyfox]

Come on guys. What is more important? Water or Horse racing?
They've been begging for water in Georgia.
Some of you are making a great case as to why Turf Paradise should be
a permanent site for the B.C. Cup. Even the desert gets rain on occasion.
Forget it. Horse racing is an outdoor sport. Expect some rain. Learn how to play tracks when they are wet.
This is a fantastic day to enjoy with great betting opportunities.
And that's exactly what I intend to do. Enjoy it.

[Zman179]

Man, I heard that thunderclap just as soon as the second race finished. I've been to Monmouth twice when the track was hit by lightning and the power went out, one time during a race. Wouldn't be surprised if it happened again.