P.VAL

[LARRY GEORGE]

why is patrick val have the mount on bordnaro in bc sprint
did he have his license renewed :confused:

[Greyfox]

To my knowledge he's been away on injury time, not license suspension this time.

[LARRY GEORGE]

he is does not have any license on the chrb he has to be relicensed to ride

[Pace Cap'n]

sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/breederscup07/news/story?id=3067279 (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/breederscup07/news/story?id=3067279)


Valenzuela, who turned 45 on Wednesday, had hoped to return to riding earlier this year. Last November, he suffered a rib injury when he was kicked in the paddock at Hollywood Park. While recovering from that injury, Valenzuela underwent arthroscopic surgery on a knee in December. Valenzuela initially discussed a comeback at the beginning of the year, but postponed his return on several occasions, expressing concern about knee pain.

The winner of 15 riding titles in Southern California since 1986, Valenzuela has had a history of substance abuse problems that have interrupted his career. He said he does not have a riding license and has not approached the California Horse Racing Board about getting licensed. He said he will handle that when he receives doctor's clearance to resume riding.

[JustRalph]

they just said that he will be back "soon" on HRTV

[Tom Barrister]

How many chances does this guy think he gets? More accuretely, how many times has his license been suspended or revoked for substance abuse or whatever else he's done?

[Indulto]

How many chances does this guy think he gets? More accuretely, how many times has his license been suspended or revoked for substance abuse or whatever else he's done?Did I miss something here? As far as I knew, the man wasn't under suspension when he was injured. Why should he have any problems being licensed once he's been medically cleared to ride?

[David-LV]

How many chances does this guy think he gets? More accuretely, how many times has his license been suspended or revoked for substance abuse or whatever else he's done?

P Val's licence WAS NOT suspended.

If getting kicked by a horse is substance abuse then I must have missed something also.

Don't accuse if you don't know all the facts.:mad: :mad:

_______
David

[Greyfox]

:ThmbUp: P Val's licence WAS NOT suspended.

If getting kicked by a horse is substance abuse then I must have missed something also.

Don't accuse if you don't know all the facts.:mad: :mad:

_______
David

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[takeout]

What do P Val and Britney Spears both have in common?

[Greyfox]

What do P Val and Britney Spears both have in common?

Both shaved every hair on their body?

[GMB@BP]

He was not suspended this time, but to my knowledge during his time away he was not keeping up with his commitments with the CHRB so he needs to reapply, his licence is one year conditional and has expired. They always give it to him but its not a slam dunk.

I think its interesting that they dump Migliore for someone who has not ridden in almost a year....that seems fair.

[Robert Fischer]

:) "P.Val" only rides BC's now

[takeout]

Both shaved every hair on their body?
Bingo!

[Ron]

why is patrick val have the mount on bordnaro in bc sprint
did he have his license renewed :confused:

Would love to see your source for this. Are you looking at 2006 entries?

[ponyplayerdotca]

To David-LV, and Greyfox,

Why so sanctimonious in your defense of this guy?

Patrick Valenzuela has been a known substance abuser his whole life, and a pure son-of-a-bitch to the other jockeys he's worked with his whole career.

He's continually used excuse after excuse and legal manuever after manuever to escape punishment to keep his sorry career going at the expense of any other jockey who plays by the rules.

Now, his body is finally giving out on him, and his negative approach to the rules of the sport has caught up with him.

Personally, I can't wait till this idiot announces his retirement.

And don't give me that "he who is without sin cast the first stone" argument in his defense.

He's been wholeheartedly unapologetic about all of his trangressions over the years and feels he is above the rules.

Well, I'm being wholly unapologetic now as a fan when I say keep him out.

Good riddance to him.

[Indulto]

... Patrick Valenzuela has been a known substance abuser his whole life, and a pure son-of-a-bitch to the other jockeys he's worked with his whole career.

He's continually used excuse after excuse and legal manuever after manuever to escape punishment to keep his sorry career going at the expense of any other jockey who plays by the rules.

Now, his body is finally giving out on him, and his negative approach to the rules of the sport has caught up with him.

Personally, I can't wait till this idiot announces his retirement.

And don't give me that "he who is without sin cast the first stone" argument in his defense.

He's been wholeheartedly unapologetic about all of his trangressions over the years and feels he is above the rules.

Well, I'm being wholly unapologetic now as a fan when I say keep him out.

Good riddance to him.ppdc,
I only know about P.Val as a person is what I read in the industry press. A few DRF columnists seemed to have taken your position the last time his license was being considered.

In watching his rides more closely since then, it appeared to me that he still consistently got horses out of the gate quicker then the other top CA jockeys; at least until he was injured. Other players I've spoken with felt that his "gift" included more accurately estimating how much horse he had left.

Most players (and apparently top trainers) buy into his "winning is everthing" approach. Frankel has proven that he is the best barometer of a jockey's ability, and he used P.Val whenever he could. (Note: the Torpedeaux is getting mounts from Frankel again while Solis isn't).

We can't always have it both ways. You may not like him, but if he is capable of performing well and isn't disqualified any more frequently than other top jockeys, I hope he comes back and motivates other jockeys to beat him across the finish line.

[Greyfox]

To David-LV, and Greyfox,

Why so sanctimonious in your defense of this guy?

.

I was neither being sanctimonious or defending P.Val.
I was simply pointing out the man was away due to injury.
He was not suspended this time. Get your facts straight.

[ponyplayerdotca]

"We can't always have it both ways. You may not like him, but if he is capable of performing well and isn't disqualified any more frequently than other top jockeys, I hope he comes back and motivates other jockeys to beat him across the finish line."

===

What about the other jockeys who have to ride out there not knowing if Valenzuela is out riding under the influence all those years in the past? What about their safety and right to earn a living on the mounts Valenzuela was getting while breaking the rules?

I don't like unapologetic cheaters, regardless of their talent level.

The owners and trainers are just as much at fault for continuing to use jockeys who aren't clean. That's understandable given the fact that the sport of horse racing to them is about nothing but profit.

In reality, horse racing isn't about the best horses winning, but about the best cheaters beating the system without fear of reprisal.

Biancone and Valenzuela are only the 2 most recent examples of this.
They all poison the game beyond reproach and I have no time for them.

[Greyfox]

[QUOTE=ponyplayerdotca
I don't like unapologetic cheaters, regardless of their talent level.

.[/QUOTE]

Does that hold for posters who don't get their facts straight in the first place?

[Indulto]

... What about the other jockeys who have to ride out there not knowing if Valenzuela is out riding under the influence all those years in the past? What about their safety and right to earn a living on the mounts Valenzuela was getting while breaking the rules?Has P.Val not been punished? Is he not monitored? Is there any other jockey known to have been injured by P.Val while determined or suspected of being under the influence?I don't like unapologetic cheaters, regardless of their talent level.When was P.Val accused of intentionally and/or illegally altering the outcome of a race beyond a foul or infraction of the rules of racing resulting in temporary suspensions?The owners and trainers are just as much at fault for continuing to use jockeys who aren't clean. That's understandable given the fact that the sport of horse racing to them is about nothing but profit.Without the profit motive, why would we bet on races?In reality, horse racing isn't about the best horses winning, but about the best cheaters beating the system without fear of reprisal.I see it as taking every legal advantage just as horseplayers do with rebates and ADWs do with low signal prices and exclusivity.Biancone and Valenzuela are only the 2 most recent examples of this. They all poison the game beyond reproach and I have no time for them.I think the accusations against Biancone were far more serious and inhumane than those against P.Val.

[Ron]

I don't think he has a mount on BC day.

[Ron]

Sometimes I think P.Val is scum but to those people that believe jockeys don't make a difference, I say any horse that P.Val is driving has a chance. It just depends on which P.Val.

[ponyplayerdotca]

Greyfox: I guess every poster who posts facts you disagree with doesn't have their facts straight.

Indulto: You don't consider cocaine a performance-enhancing drug? Do you remember Doc Ellis throwing a no-hitter for Pittsburgh back in 1973 high on LSD? How many races did Valenzuela win in his drug abusing days while he was high? You don't consider that influencing the outcome of a race?

Also, taking every legal advantage to win? Are you kidding? There is only one rule when it comes to the adage "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying": DON'T GET CAUGHT.

But like Pauly said to Henry near the end of Goodfellas, "but now I gotta turn my back on you". If you get caught, you're supposed to suffer the consequences.

Marion Jones got caught - no more gold medals. Patrick Valenzuela got caught (numerous times) - the punishment should be no more race riding.

Unfortunately, like former Dodgers pitcher Steve Howe, addicts get an unlimited number of chances to keep plying their trade because the governing bodies of their sport are soft.

And lastly, it's interesting how many of you posters on this board find fault with the managements that disagree with your collective stance on ADWs and rebates such that you organize buycotts and stances against what you believe is an issue detrimental to the sport.

Yet, when players like me stand up for an issue detrimental to the sport (drug use by trainers and jockeys), some of you disagree with that tact. Is it because that such perameters are edges you capitalize on with your wagering, so it's off limits? If not, what then? Due process? How many due processes do repeat offenders get before they get the message and pay the price???

How comfortable would you be going to work each day knowing that guy beside you is a drug addict? Do you think NASCAR drivers would be comfortable with a Valenzuela type driving in races alongside them knowing he's a user? At what point do the rights of those abiding by the rules supercede the rights of those who don't?

Cleaning up the sport and levelling the wagering "playing field" for horseplayers are two primary issues that should be addressed pronto.

Standing up for those that cheat, or allowing them several chances to rehabilitate their ways doesn't help the sport whatsoever.

Just my two cents. Reply away, but I've said my peace on this topic.
Good luck to everyone on Friday and Saturday!

[46zilzal]

It unfortunately runs in the family. We used to have a not so subtle Milo Valenzuela angle called "red eyes ON" or "red eyes off," based upon the response to all that booze the night before.

Another very capable rider destroyed by a different drug.

[George Sands]

The Doc Ellis no-hitter was in 1970.

[bflodave]

Well, well well said!

[PaceAdvantage]

I think its interesting that they dump Migliore for someone who has not ridden in almost a year....that seems fair.Nothing personal, strictly business. Tells you something about PVals rep as a jockey. Everyone knows the man can ride, sober or not....

[Indulto]

... Indulto: You don't consider cocaine a performance-enhancing drug? Do you remember Doc Ellis throwing a no-hitter for Pittsburgh back in 1973 high on LSD? How many races did Valenzuela win in his drug abusing days while he was high? You don't consider that influencing the outcome of a race?If he gave it to the horse it certainly would be, but short of that, please explain exactly how his being high influenced the outcome of a particular race. To return your baseball analogy, are you going to claim intimidation ala Ryne Duren with his defective eyesight? How would you prove P.Val was more intimidating, more iikely to take risks, and/or less able to control his mounts when high than when not?Also, taking every legal advantage to win? Are you kidding? There is only one rule when it comes to the adage "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying": DON'T GET CAUGHT.Many P.Val fans would say,"If you aren't trying then you're cheating. ;) But like Pauly said to Henry near the end of Goodfellas, "but now I gotta turn my back on you". If you get caught, you're supposed to suffer the consequences.Art is supposed to imitate life, not vice versa,Marion Jones got caught - no more gold medals. Patrick Valenzuela got caught (numerous times) - the punishment should be no more race riding.Marion Jones lost her medals for enhancing her performance so as to illegally alter the outcome of the events in which she competed. She got what she deserved. P.Val was deservedly suspended several times for POSING a danger to his fellow jockeys. He was allowed back because some well-intended, important contributors to racing thought that he too could contribute to the sport if he did NOT pose that danger.Unfortunately, like former Dodgers pitcher Steve Howe, addicts get an unlimited number of chances to keep plying their trade because the governing bodies of their sport are soft.You sound like an advocate of zero-tolerance in all things racing. Maybe you would be happier just betting races from Europe, Hong Kong, and/or the UAE.And lastly, it's interesting how many of you posters on this board find fault with the managements that disagree with your collective stance on ADWs and rebates such that you organize buycotts and stances against what you believe is an issue detrimental to the sport.

Yet, when players like me stand up for an issue detrimental to the sport (drug use by trainers and jockeys), some of you disagree with that tact. Is it because that such perameters are edges you capitalize on with your wagering, so it's off limits? If not, what then? Due process? How many due processes do repeat offenders get before they get the message and pay the price???

How comfortable would you be going to work each day knowing that guy beside you is a drug addict? Do you think NASCAR drivers would be comfortable with a Valenzuela type driving in races alongside them knowing he's a user? At what point do the rights of those abiding by the rules supercede the rights of those who don't?

Cleaning up the sport and levelling the wagering "playing field" for horseplayers are two primary issues that should be addressed pronto.

Standing up for those that cheat, or allowing them several chances to rehabilitate their ways doesn't help the sport whatsoever.You may be right, but you haven't suggested anything concrete for achieving any of your objectives. If it were easy to right all wrongs we wouldn't need courts. You haven't convinced me that denying P.Val the opportunity to exhibit his considerable talent for the benefit of fans and owners is more beneficial to the sport than allowing him to compete under strict monitoringJust my two cents. Reply away, but I've said my peace on this topic.
Good luck to everyone on Friday and Saturday!You may well be on the right side of this debate, but you haven't won many points so far. ;)

[David-LV]

Bordonaro will be ridden by Richard Migliore and not Pat Val. in the $2 Million TVG Sprint on Sat. at MTH.

Good Luck Mig.:) :)

_________
David

[Tom Barrister]

P Val's licence WAS NOT suspended.

If getting kicked by a horse is substance abuse then I must have missed something also.

Don't accuse if you don't know all the facts.:mad: :mad:

_______
David

I know all of the facts. Pat Valenzuela has been suspended nine times, eight of these for substance abuse and once for failing to comply by rules related to drug testing. He's been lax in complying with those rules, and has looked for ways to circumvent the procedures, the most noted one being for shaving all of his hair. He got suspended for that, then was allowed to reapply because judge Stewart Waxman ruled that the CHRB could have done a hair follicle test, since they did not specify a hair strand test, e.g. a technicality/loophole saved Valenzuela. There's no doubt in my mind (others may have different views) that he'd consulted with a legal expert --- before shaving and appearing "bald" --- and come to the conclusion that he could skip through the loophole that he used.

The only other professional athlete I can find with nearly as many substance abuse suspensions is Steve Howe with seven. I haven't found another jockey with nearly that many. Usually, the offender receives a lifetime ban long before he/she runs up as many violations as Valenzuela has had.

I won't argue that Valenzeula is talented. But so were Steve Howe, Daryl Strawberry, and Ben Johnson. Being talented is not an excuse to break the rules, and Valenzuela has broken the rules repeatedly. Apparently, he can keep finding loopholes to get reinstated. I don't personally believe that the man is clean. I hope that he proves me wrong, if for no other reason, so that horses and other jockeys aren't put at risk during the running of a race he's riding in due to his being stoned/high/etc.

[David-LV]

I know all of the facts. Pat Valenzuela has been suspended nine times, eight of these for substance abuse and once for failing to comply by rules related to drug testing. He's been lax in complying with those rules, and has looked for ways to circumvent the procedures, the most noted one being for shaving all of his hair. He got suspended for that, then was allowed to reapply because judge Stewart Waxman ruled that the CHRB could have done a hair follicle test, since they did not specify a hair strand test, e.g. a technicality/loophole saved Valenzuela. There's no doubt in my mind (others may have different views) that he'd consulted with a legal expert --- before shaving and appearing "bald" --- and come to the conclusion that he could skip through the loophole that he used.

The only other professional athlete I can find with nearly as many substance abuse suspensions is Steve Howe with seven. I haven't found another jockey with nearly that many. Usually, the offender receives a lifetime ban long before he/she runs up as many violations as Valenzuela has had.

I won't argue that Valenzeula is talented. But so were Steve Howe, Daryl Strawberry, and Ben Johnson. Being talented is not an excuse to break the rules, and Valenzuela has broken the rules repeatedly. Apparently, he can keep finding loopholes to get reinstated. I don't personally believe that the man is clean. I hope that he proves me wrong, if for no other reason, so that horses and other jockeys aren't put at risk during the running of a race he's riding in due to his being stoned/high/etc.


"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Need I say more??

___________
David

[Tom Barrister]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Need I say more??

___________
David

There was no reason to say what you said, because it has no bearing at all on my statement.

We don't have to be sin-free to question the sanity of the CHRB giving Valenzuela another license. This will be Chance Number 10 or 11 for this person, almost all suspensions related to substance abuse. We're talking about one of the most dangerous and exacting professions in the world. A jockey whose judgement is muddled by substance abuse is putting the well-being of the horses and other jockeys in the race at greater risk. Being a jockey is already risky enough, without having to worry about the guy on the next horse being off in another world. The resulting errors in judgement could cost horses and other jockeys their well-being or even their lives, not to mention ruin millions of dollars worth of horseflesh,or if more fortunate, "merely" result in lost purse money and losing bets. There's no room for substance abuse by a jockey, and there should be zero tolerance. Yet this man has had ten (or more) chances to make good. He's probably going to be relicensed, assuming he can pass a drug test. Based on past history, he'll probably get suspended again. We shouldn't give the benefit of the doubt to a nine (or ten) time loser. He has to prove that he's clean by passing a rigorous and frequent series of drug tests and by riding professionally during his probationary period (which should include the remainder of his career as a jockey).

[cnollfan]

What about errors in judgment by a man whose natural weight would be 140+ lbs who vomited and sweated 10 pounds off to make weight? There are all kinds of impairments.

[Greyfox]

PVal has, at least in the past, had a tremendous riding talent.

When he was suspended for drug infractions, after the third time, in my opinion he should have been given a life time suspension. A three time loser.

The fact of the matter is he wasn't.
Thus when he left riding the last time it was due to injury.
Any injured worker should be allowed to return to his place of employment when he has healed. If PVAl is caught doping up again, give him the life suspension.

[GMB@BP]

Nothing personal, strictly business. Tells you something about PVals rep as a jockey. Everyone knows the man can ride, sober or not....


I guess, I know people who drive well drunk, does not mean they should.

[TurfRuler]

There are "Players" and "Haters", P V is a Player, which one are you?

[GMB@BP]

There are "Players" and "Haters", P V is a Player, which one are you?

Count me as a hater, sinner, whatever, I clearly have no respect for the man. Guess I should be on the lookout for "John Doe"

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess, I know people who drive well drunk, does not mean they should.I don't believe PVal has ever been accused of actually riding while high, much less proven via a lab test afterwards....

[Greyfox]

I don't believe PVal has ever been accused of actually riding while high, much less proven via a lab test afterwards....
:ThmbUp: I'll second that motion.

[Tom Barrister]

The effect of recreational drugs isn't something that switches on and off with use/nonuse. Just because somebody hasn't had any in a few hours/days doesn't mean that their effect on the body and neurological system is negated after X amount of time. Some degree of hinderance is present, and a total drying out period can take weeks or months. Stopping their use has its problems, too. A prolonged withdrawl can cause symptoms that can hinder various body and thought processes. There have been cases of relapses months (and even years) after going "cold turkey", let alone days or a few hours, relapses that leave the victim as high as if he/she had just taken the drugs.

You can defend Valenezuela to the high heavens if you want to, and I don't argue that he is one of the premier riders in the business when he's clear-headed. My complaint is that he's had ten or eleven chances to make good and clean up his act, and he's failed at least nine of those chances. How many more should he get? Another ten? Should he be allowed to ride until he causes a major accident which kills or injures horses, other jockeys, or even himself? Where does racing draw the line?

[Greyfox]

My complaint is that he's had ten or eleven chances to make good and clean up his act, and he's failed at least nine of those chances. How many more should he get? Another ten? Should he be allowed to ride until he causes a major accident which kills or injures horses, other jockeys, or even himself? Where does racing draw the line?

I've conceded before that PVAl should have been suspended for life after so many infractions. But the fact is that he wasn't. He is away due to injury.

So now put the situation in the abstract and answer this question:

"Should an injured employee be allowed to return to his employment when his injuries have healed?"

My answer is: :ThmbUp:
Applying that to PVal. He should be reinstated. It's just that simple.

[David-LV]

I've conceded before that PVAl should have been suspended for life after so many infractions. But the fact is that he wasn't. He is away due to injury.

So now put the situation in the abstract and answer this question:

"Should an injured employee be allowed to return to his employment when his injuries have healed?"

My answer is: :ThmbUp:
Applying that to PVal. He should be reinstated. It's just that simple.

I Agree 1000% :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

_________
David

[theiman]

Well if California wont license PVal it likes like New Mexico will.

Zia Park - November 3rd, 2007 - Race 6
Estimated Local Post Time: 3:25 PM Race Type: Maiden Claiming
Breed: Thoroughbred
Age Restriction: Three, Four and Five Year Old
Purse: $11,200
Distance: One Mile
Surface: Dirt PostHorse NameAgeSexWeightJockey NameClaiming Price1Flying Finlander (CA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6662948&BT=TB) 5Gelding123Fernando S. Rojas$12,5002Strong Force (KY) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6492815&BT=TB) 5Gelding123Patrick A. Valenzuela$12,5003Big River Gentlmen (KY) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7185733&BT=TB) 3Gelding120Bobbie D. Harmon$12,5004Rotunda (KY) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7162793&BT=TB) 3Colt120Jorge Espitia$12,5005Gone Flying (CA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7174484&BT=TB) 3Gelding120Mark Anthony Villa$12,5006Bet Em All (TX) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7223107&BT=TB) 3Gelding120Shawnette L. Sherbino$12,5007Booze Cruz (TX) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7244726&BT=TB) 3Colt120Jorge Martin Bourdieu$12,500



Zia Park - November 3rd, 2007 - Race 7
Estimated Local Post Time: 3:51 PM Race Type: Claiming
Breed: Thoroughbred
Age Restriction: Three Year Old and Upward
Restriction: State Bred Purse: $15,900
Distance: One Mile
Surface: Dirt PostHorse NameAgeSexWeightJockey NameClaiming Price1Net Threat (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6115972&BT=TB) 6Gelding118Jake Barton$6,2502Excessive Stats (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7179827&BT=TB) 4Gelding123Joe A. Martinez$6,2503Devil Action (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6164254&BT=TB) 6Gelding123Patrick A. Valenzuela$6,2504Smart Little Habit (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6501540&BT=TB) 5Gelding118Travis Cunningham$6,2505Ghostly Dance (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6628652&BT=TB) 5Gelding123Jimmy Ray Coates$6,2506Devon's Cadillac (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=5376296&BT=TB) 7Gelding123Ricardo Jaime$6,2507Rainbow Reality (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6512227&BT=TB) 5Gelding120Freddy Fuentes$6,250

Zia Park - November 3rd, 2007 - Race 8
Estimated Local Post Time: 4:17 PM Race Type: Claiming
Breed: Thoroughbred
Age Restriction: Three Year Old and Upward
Sex: Fillies and Mares
Purse: $12,100
Distance: One Mile
Surface: Dirt PostHorse NameAgeSexWeightJockey NameClaiming Price1Dumtell (IA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6171685&BT=TB) 6Mare118Jake Barton$6,2502Joyful Time (LA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6584618&BT=TB) 5Mare123Travis Cunningham$6,2503Me Laney (CA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6888412&BT=TB) 4Filly118Mark Anthony Villa$6,2504Kailey My Girl (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6962702&BT=TB) 4Filly118Brian Long$6,2505Must Be a Topper (CA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6819534&BT=TB) 4Filly123Patrick A. Valenzuela$6,2506Castelli Magic (CA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6771129&BT=TB) 4Filly118Ken S. Tohill$6,2507Reasonable Gal (FL) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6848478&BT=TB) 4Filly118Carlos D. Madeira$6,2508Miss Tiburon (CA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6284112&BT=TB) 6Mare120Jimmy Ray Coates$6,2509Go Go America (CA) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6468123&BT=TB) 5Mare120Miguel A. Perez$6,250Zia Park - November 3rd, 2007 - Race 9
Estimated Local Post Time: 4:43 PM Race Type: Allowance
Breed: Thoroughbred
Age Restriction: Three Year Old and Upward
Purse: $24,700
Distance: Six Furlongs
Surface: Dirt PostHorse NameAgeSexWeightJockey Name1Follow My Moon (KY) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7110312&BT=TB) 3Colt117Ken S. Tohill2My Pizazz (KY) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7223184&BT=TB) 3Colt117Patrick A. Valenzuela3Gentsfinishfirst (TX) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7168776&BT=TB) 3Gelding120Carlos D. Madeira4Greatisgood (KY) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6884571&BT=TB) 4Colt120Ricardo Jaime5Mountain Dreamer (NM) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7116133&BT=TB) 3Gelding120Mark Anthony Villa6Beowulf's Sword (KY) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6744518&BT=TB) 4Gelding120Miguel A. Perez7Audience (KY) (http://equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=6792069&BT=TB) 4Colt120Duane Lee Sterling

Wonder if RD Hubbard had a hand in getting him back?

[Pace Cap'n]

Well if California wont license PVal it likes like New Mexico will.

Who said California wouldn't license him?

[bigmack]

From DRF:

Jockey Patrick Valenzuela, who is seeking a return to riding after an 11-month absence caused by injury, was licensed as a jockey at Zia Park in Hobbs, N.M., over the weekend and began exercise horses at that track, he said. But Valenzuela said over the weekend that he plans to return to California this week in an effort to gain a jockey's license there and resume riding.

Valenzuela, 45, met with Santa Anita stewards last week, but was not granted a license. California Horse Racing Board officials said last week that Valenzuela will be required to sign an agreement for a conditional license as he has done in recent years, and prove that he weights 125 pounds or less before being granted a license.

[Tom Barrister]

It appears that he'll eventually get relicenced for California, too. Hopefully, he'll straighten out his act (or keep it straight if he's been clean recently), because it's not likely he'll get many more chances. This is probably his last go around in California.

Of course there would still be other states, if Valenzuela didn't mind hitting the lesser circuits. Ohio isn't that hard to get licensed in (although that may have changed recently in light of the Josh Radosevich incident), West Virginia sometimes overlooks problems from elsewhere, New Mexico has a habit of ignoring rulings by other states, and you can get a license in Nebraska if you haven't killed anybody in the past 30 days.

[Ron]

It appears that he'll eventually get relicenced for California, too. Hopefully, he'll straighten out his act (or keep it straight if he's been clean recently), because it's not likely he'll get many more chances. This is probably his last go around in California.


I thought two chances ago was his last go around, so I wouldn't be suprised if he has a couple more chances.

[Hosshead]

Riding is his only chance at making a decent living.
At his age now, he may be starting to connect the dots.
(I didn't want to say "connect the lines" )

[Wickel]

Please reread Greyfox's posts: He is away due to injury. He's been clean since, I believe, 2005. The man has a right to return to his profession. Because of his past infractions, he is already under tight scrutiny, which I agree, he brought upon himself and deserves. But while he is abiding by those terms he has the absolute right to pursue his profession.

[Robert Fischer]

anyone here capp Zia?

Hes got mounts in the 6th 7th 8th races.

According to the odds all are live horses.

?

[omalley]

I noticed that there is a JD VALENZUELA is he related to P VALENZUELA?

[Pell Mell]

anyone here capp Zia?

Hes got mounts in the 6th 7th 8th races.

According to the odds all are live horses.

?

I really like his mount in the 7th. Listed at 7/2 but will probably go off at 9/5.:ThmbUp:

[lilmegahertz]

Reading his list of suspensions, etc. I keep thinking that we went to war with Iraq for less than this....:bang:

[sally]

P Val won in the 7th and 8th races-- both favorites.

[horses4courses]

He may have gone into "retirement" yet again, and had not been riding so great of late, but this "tweet" from Bruno De Julio sent out earlier today is, in my opinion, a big plus for P Val.

He has been going into schools and talking about the ills of drug use, and the temptation for kids.
From this account, he obviously made an impression on Bruno's daughter. :ThmbUp:

No doubt about it, the man has life experience on how drugs can spoil potential.


Racingwithbruno ‏@Racingwithbruno 11h
Jockeys - P Val went to my daughters private school and lectured at mass about the ills of drugs and temptations

Racingwithbruno ‏@Racingwithbruno 11h
Later my daughter moved by lecture asked me to go track see Pat ride - again my shy kid walked up to pat shook hands and said thank u
from Sunshine Parkway, FL Reply Retweet Favorite More

[Mystic]

He tweeted his agent last week and said he was done riding.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/valenzuela-tells-agent-hes-not-riding-any-longer/

[Stillriledup]

He tweeted his agent last week and said he was done riding.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/valenzuela-tells-agent-hes-not-riding-any-longer/

He's BAAAACK!

Meeting with the stewards to see about coming back. I'm not sure why they wouldnt give him a year or 2 suspension for just "not showing up" or, maybe they'll do what they normally do, give him another chance.

[Tom]

None of my business, but I would make him put up a sizable bond, payable to the next owner he stands up. I'm talking very sizable.

But if he rides at SA, I won't have to deal with him, and so it goes.

[Mystic]

WTF? :eek:

I mean seriously?!! Enough already!!

[PaceAdvantage]

I think the bottom line here is that if owners/trainers still want to ride him, I believe he should still be allowed to ride (while being regularly tested of course).

It's more than obvious that stewards aren't needed to kick P Val out of the game. That would only require the notion among owners and trainers that he is too risky to ride.

Obviously, they feel otherwise, and who are we to tell them they can't ride who they want to ride?

The other side of the coin is the safety of the other jockeys and horses. I don't think it's ever been charged that PVal has ridden while intoxicated (unlike a couple of other jocks out there who are still riding and have failed breathalyzers pre-race). But his reputation of course precedes him, and mandatory random testing would be a must whenever he gets back in the saddle.

[Stillriledup]

I think the bottom line here is that if owners/trainers still want to ride him, I believe he should still be allowed to ride (while being regularly tested of course).

It's more than obvious that stewards aren't needed to kick P Val out of the game. That would only require the notion among owners and trainers that he is too risky to ride.

Obviously, they feel otherwise, and who are we to tell them they can't ride who they want to ride?

The other side of the coin is the safety of the other jockeys and horses. I don't think it's ever been charged that PVal has ridden while intoxicated (unlike a couple of other jocks out there who are still riding and have failed breathalyzers pre-race). But his reputation of course precedes him, and mandatory random testing would be a must whenever he gets back in the saddle.

P Val could get mounts even if owners don't necessarily want him just by having a good and respected agent, the agent is in the race office during the draw trying to get on horses that Bejarano (or other top guys) pick against.

I also think its perception...if the racing board keeps giving Val more chances, what's to prevent the other jocks from thinking "We could do whatever we want, we will always get back no matter what happens". That's a bad precedent to set.

[Grits]

I also think its perception...if the racing board keeps giving Val more chances, what's to prevent the other jocks from thinking "We could do whatever we want, we will always get back no matter what happens". That's a bad precedent to set.

What is it that causes you to come up with the most God awful, absolute negative in any topic? Why on earth would other jockeys WANT, or even begin to CHOOSE, the path, the problems that Patrick has caused himself? Unto my soul, you come up with some of the strangest, the most bizarre statements of any individual I have ever read. Some of this junk is truly epic--so far off the wall it is beyond comprehension.

[Tom]

Yeah, why should the rules apply to everyone?
That's not fair.

[horses4courses]

I think the bottom line here is that if owners/trainers still want to ride him, I believe he should still be allowed to ride (while being regularly tested of course).

It's more than obvious that stewards aren't needed to kick P Val out of the game. That would only require the notion among owners and trainers that he is too risky to ride.

Obviously, they feel otherwise, and who are we to tell them they can't ride who they want to ride?

The other side of the coin is the safety of the other jockeys and horses. I don't think it's ever been charged that PVal has ridden while intoxicated (unlike a couple of other jocks out there who are still riding and have failed breathalyzers pre-race). But his reputation of course precedes him, and mandatory random testing would be a must whenever he gets back in the saddle.

That about sums it up for me.
P Val won't quit riding until he physically can't, or nobody will put him up.
Of course, he has to be regularly tested.

His best days are way behind him, though.
This is no Gary Stevens story with a few nice horses to choose from in the Derby.

P Val is riding to live.......

[Grits]

P Val is riding to live.......

What an incredible observation. To care costs you and I little. So little.

[duncan04]

What a train wreck. If he is allowed to come back, how long before he fails to show up for testing or another reason? :bang: Enough already

[Stillriledup]

What is it that causes you to come up with the most God awful, absolute negative in any topic? Why on earth would other jockeys WANT, or even begin to CHOOSE, the path, the problems that Patrick has caused himself? Unto my soul, you come up with some of the strangest, the most bizarre statements of any individual I have ever read. Some of this junk is truly epic--so far off the wall it is beyond comprehension.

I never said anything about jocks choosing anything, the only point i made is that with PV getting so many "2nd chances" is sets a bad precedent. Re read what i wrote more carefully before going off the rails.

[Grits]

I never said anything about jocks choosing anything, the only point i made is that with PV getting so many "2nd chances" is sets a bad precedent. Re read what i wrote more carefully before going off the rails.

I didn't go off the rails, SRU, not at all. I'm going solely on what you wrote, "what's to prevent other jocks from thinking". I'm sorry, but thoughts are the means by which one comes up with choices.

[pondman]

P Val could get mounts even if owners don't necessarily want him just by having a good and respected agent, the agent is in the race office during the draw trying to get on horses that Bejarano (or other top guys) pick against.

I also think its perception...if the racing board keeps giving Val more chances, what's to prevent the other jocks from thinking "We could do whatever we want, we will always get back no matter what happens". That's a bad precedent to set.

There are jockeys riding in California with a CHRB license that have done much worst things than PV. This isn't even a drug related suspension. He can still outride 90% of the jockeys in the US. His only violation is:

02/07/143 RULING – LATS #035
Jockey PATRICK VALENZUELA, having failed to appear for a hearing
alleging violation of California Horse Racing Board rule #1872 (Failure
to Fulfill Jockey Agreement), is suspended for violation of California Horse Racing Board rule #1547 (Failure to Appear).
During the term of suspension, all licenses and license privileges of
PATRICK VALENZUELA are suspended and pursuant to California Horse Racing Board rule #1528 (Jurisdiction of Stewards to Suspend or Fine),
Mr. VALENZUELA is denied access to all premises in this jurisdiction.

[Stillriledup]

There are jockeys riding in California with a CHRB license that have done much worst things than PV. This isn't even a drug related suspension. He can still outride 90% of the jockeys in the US. His only violation is:

02/07/143 RULING – LATS #035
Jockey PATRICK VALENZUELA, having failed to appear for a hearing
alleging violation of California Horse Racing Board rule #1872 (Failure
to Fulfill Jockey Agreement), is suspended for violation of California Horse Racing Board rule #1547 (Failure to Appear).
During the term of suspension, all licenses and license privileges of
PATRICK VALENZUELA are suspended and pursuant to California Horse Racing Board rule #1528 (Jurisdiction of Stewards to Suspend or Fine),
Mr. VALENZUELA is denied access to all premises in this jurisdiction.

There are very few jocks he can outride at this point. He wasnt getting mounts and there was a reason for that, was something like 20- 000 at the time he didnt show up for his last engagement (which won by the way, it was the first live mount he probably had all year, and he blew it off).

[Mineshaft]

did he get suspended again?

[Stillriledup]

did he get suspended again?

No, he essentially suspended himself, he was scheduled to ride in a race about a month ago and just never showed up to the track, never called anyone, nobody knew where he was.

So now, he's trying to come back and has contacted the horse racing board, so we will see if they suspend him for "not showing up", or they will just let it slide and let him start riding again asap.

[Mystic]

i wonder if the other jocks just roll their eyes at him when he walks back into the jocks room. :D

[Stillriledup]

i wonder if the other jocks just roll their eyes at him when he walks back into the jocks room. :D

I would say whoever are his closest friends in the room might give him "the business" but other than that, i would say they would be glad to see him back and that he's ok. Honestly, i would love him to come back, have his head on straight and get some live mounts, the game is better in California if P Val is riding well and in the mix.

I was excited when i thought he won his first race back, and even TVG was saying "P val wins" but alas, it was talamo...this was the live runner that Patrick missed out on the day he no-showed.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110403

[Ray]

This is part of why he gets cut so much slack.. From what I can see people just love Pval ...Father Time has caught up with him
Now . Even if he is clean his age is gonna prevent him from making weight. He needs to get on with hrtv or tvg somehow. His riding days need
To be over

[Mystic]

I would say whoever are his closest friends in the room might give him "the business" but other than that, i would say they would be glad to see him back and that he's ok. Honestly, i would love him to come back, have his head on straight and get some live mounts, the game is better in California if P Val is riding well and in the mix.

I was excited when i thought he won his first race back, and even TVG was saying "P val wins" but alas, it was talamo...this was the live runner that Patrick missed out on the day he no-showed.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110403

I used to be his biggest fan and loved to bet him, but I have just gotten to the point of "meh....whatever" anymore with his on & off issues. This last time didn't have anything to do with drugs that I have heard, and just appeared like he was tired of not riding any decent stock and decided to throw in the towel once and for all. The time for him to "put up or shut up" came and went a long time ago IMO.

[Stillriledup]

I used to be his biggest fan and loved to bet him, but I have just gotten to the point of "meh....whatever" anymore with his on & off issues. This last time didn't have anything to do with drugs that I have heard, and just appeared like he was tired of not riding any decent stock and decided to throw in the towel once and for all. The time for him to "put up or shut up" came and went a long time ago IMO.

Its a shame because when he was riding well and riding good horses, he was always positive in the paddock, thumbs up kind a guy, laughing and joking and making "cash calls" but when the going got tough, he kind of gave up, and that's no good, you have to ride thru the bad ones and prove yourself, but when you walk away from adversity, its really tough for owners to want to put you back down...how can they trust you're going to show up?

[duncan04]

How many more second chances is he going to get and then piss away. Enough is enough.

[Mystic]

Now he says he has no intentions of being a jockey again, but just wants to be an exercise rider in the mornings..or a T.V commentator.

http://www.drf.com/news/santa-anita-valenzuela-wants-become-exercise-rider

[Ray]

Being an exercise rider and TV analyst is not only good for him but great for the sport. He knows how to talk to people and for someone who screws up so much has a ton of support from the horse racing community. I'd love to hear his insights on some of these maiden baby races. I hope he can get this done.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's a credit to Valenzuela that he hasn't ended up dead somewhere.

That last paragraph from the DRF piece above screams nothing has changed:

"At Sunday’s hearing, Valenzuela took responsibility for his absence in late January, saying that he overslept Jan. 24 and was “too embarrassed” to call the stewards the following day. He said he is undergoing financial difficulties and needs employment."

[thaskalos]

Being an exercise rider and TV analyst is not only good for him but great for the sport. He knows how to talk to people and for someone who screws up so much has a ton of support from the horse racing community. I'd love to hear his insights on some of these maiden baby races. I hope he can get this done.

I'm not so sure that he would make such a good TV analyst. After all the excuses that he has had to make for his own behavior...I doubt that he could be forthright about the on-track behavior of these horses.

[Ray]

I disagree it's so much easier to analyze others than yourself . To me his past problems have nothing to do with how he would perform on TV and I think it's a matter of time before someone snatches him up.


Originally Posted by Thaskalos
I'm not so sure that he would make such a good TV analyst. After all the excuses that he has had to make for his own behavior...I doubt that he could be forthright about the on-track behavior of these horses.

[Stillriledup]

Being an exercise rider and TV analyst is not only good for him but great for the sport. He knows how to talk to people and for someone who screws up so much has a ton of support from the horse racing community. I'd love to hear his insights on some of these maiden baby races. I hope he can get this done.

I would think that if you want to be a tv commentator, you have to have a strong backround in actual handicapping, i dont get the feeling that he's going to be able to provide that type of insight. Also, what network is going to hire him knowing he might just not show up on a whim?

[thaskalos]

I would think that if you want to be a tv commentator, you have to have a strong backround in actual handicapping, i dont get the feeling that he's going to be able to provide that type of insight. Also, what network is going to hire him knowing he might just not show up on a whim?

Wouldn't this requirement effectively eliminate most of the TV racing commentators working today?

[Ray]

I would think that if you want to be a tv commentator, you have to have a strong backround in actual handicapping, i dont get the feeling that he's going to be able to provide that type of insight. Also, what network is going to hire him knowing he might just not show up on a whim?

Pat Valenzuela has been handicapping races his entire life...he is gonna have insight most people have never thought off. What handicapping experience do people like Caleb Keller, Christina blacker, Michelle Yu, Gino Buccola,Zoe Cadman, laffit pincay III have over P Val? None and regardless, he has insight on the way horses are traveling & the jockeys view of how a race will break down...just overall color commentary from a man who won a lot of huge races. The might not show up thing? I'm not buying, I'm sure it will be addressed in the hiring process and if he fails ? they fire him! exactly what do any of the horse channels have to lose? not to mention the fact that him saying he wants to excercise horses he realizes they are not going to pay him a lot of money. It's a slam dunk for him to be hired. I feel strongly that he will work for one of the racing channels before the end of 2014.

[Ray]

Wouldn't this requirement effectively eliminate most of the TV racing commentators working today?

I said what u said only much more long winded lol

[olddaddy]

If he needs money and becomes a commentator, he'll be like the typical jockey commentator. He will tell you small bits and pieces and keep the good info in his back pocket, in order to fill his front pocket.

[whodoyoulike]

If he needs money and becomes a commentator, he'll be like the typical jockey commentator. He will tell you small bits and pieces and keep the good info in his back pocket, in order to fill his front pocket.

I've never understood these types of comments. When it comes to handicapping, no one (jockeys or commentators) is infallible. I've always felt they are providing their opinions as they see it. If their comments agree with my handicapping, I always feel a little better. If it differs, I always have the option of taking a second look at their selections.

In case I've misunderstood maybe you can clear my confusion. Thanks,

[Stillriledup]

Pat Valenzuela has been handicapping races his entire life...he is gonna have insight most people have never thought off. What handicapping experience do people like Caleb Keller, Christina blacker, Michelle Yu, Gino Buccola,Zoe Cadman, laffit pincay III have over P Val? None and regardless, he has insight on the way horses are traveling & the jockeys view of how a race will break down...just overall color commentary from a man who won a lot of huge races. The might not show up thing? I'm not buying, I'm sure it will be addressed in the hiring process and if he fails ? they fire him! exactly what do any of the horse channels have to lose? not to mention the fact that him saying he wants to excercise horses he realizes they are not going to pay him a lot of money. It's a slam dunk for him to be hired. I feel strongly that he will work for one of the racing channels before the end of 2014.

You're not buying the 'not show up' thing, but you're not the one hiring him.

[olddaddy]

I've never understood these types of comments. When it comes to handicapping, no one (jockeys or commentators) is infallible. I've always felt they are providing their opinions as they see it. If their comments agree with my handicapping, I always feel a little better. If it differs, I always have the option of taking a second look at their selections.

In case I've misunderstood maybe you can clear my confusion. Thanks,

Jockeys are on the inside of the game and may know info that just handicappers may not be able to see and know. This could be by the type of works, the equipment used, the injuries the horse had or currently have, conversations with a familiar trainer, conversations with the barns, many things that only someone on the inside would know.

This can be valuable and profitable info that one doesnt give away as a commentator.

[Midnight Cruiser]

You're not buying the 'not show up' thing, but you're not the one hiring him.

Is your avatar or tag line or whatever it' called a quote from one of the guys on the horserace show on Esquire network?

[Stillriledup]

Is your avatar or tag line or whatever it' called a quote from one of the guys on the horserace show on Esquire network?

Yes, its a quote from last night's show.

[Ray]

You're not buying the 'not show up' thing, but you're not the one hiring him.

No but I probably would and HRTV or TVG will.

[whodoyoulike]

Jockeys are on the inside of the game and may know info that just handicappers may not be able to see and know. This could be by the type of works, the equipment used, the injuries the horse had or currently have, conversations with a familiar trainer, conversations with the barns, many things that only someone on the inside would know.

This can be valuable and profitable info that one doesnt give away as a commentator.

What would your response be if a Jockey commentator sincerely said a horse he worked is the best he has seen and this horse then loses or he doesn't like the way this horse looks and then wins? I think you have to take responsibility for your own handicapping decisions.

Getting back to the thread topic, a number of years ago I attended a live interview with PVal when he had first call on Paulson horses and found him very entertaining, personable and very likable. A friend commented that he was a "loose cannon". I don't condone behavior where he could risk the safety and livelihood of others. But, I think as a race commentator he would be very good. JMO, he understands very well the pace and positioning of horses in races.

[olddaddy]

What would your response be if a Jockey commentator sincerely said a horse he worked is the best he has seen and this horse then loses or he doesn't like the way this horse looks and then wins? I think you have to take responsibility for your own handicapping decisions.




You made me think and you are correct. I've seen tv shots of commentators/handicappers in owners/trainer boxes. They never tell us the inside info they got from their encounters. That holds true to handicapping shows, seminars, books, written articles and message boards. This type of info is looked upon as money and no one gives away money.

[Mystic]

DENIED ~

"The Daily Racing Form reports that the stewards ruled that he will not be eligible for an exercise rider’s license until the expiration of his current license in October 2015."

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/santa-anita-valenzuela-denied-exercise-license/