Spitting mad

[john del riccio]

After I read this, I almost blew a gasket.

Pay attention the comments of Lizza & Finley, if that ain't enough to make you want to spit, I don't know what will.

Get a grip.

John

http://www.drf.com/news/article/89547.html

[DanG]

After I read this, I almost blew a gasket.

Pay attention the comments of Lizza & Finley, if that ain't enough to make you want to spit, I don't know what will.

Get a grip.

John

http://www.drf.com/news/article/89547.html
From the article;
"I don't know what he did wrong," said Lizza, who called Biancone "one of the 10 best horsemen" in the U.S. "From what I read in the papers, it was just possession. He wasn't using it. Unless something else comes out, yes, of course I'll give him horses."
John,

He “only” :rolleyes: had procession of Cobra Venom. What could you possibly be inferring? ;)

http://www.geocities.com/snakes_of_sa/images/mcobra.jpg

[kenwoodallpromos]

I'm not all that surprised that there are many owners who do not read racing news or keep up otherwise about anything in racing, like his other 2 concurrent suspension rulings. They just like to burn money and go with whoever in racing are the big shots.

[DeanT]

From the article;
Quote:
"I don't know what he did wrong," said Lizza, who called Biancone "one of the 10 best horsemen" in the U.S. "From what I read in the papers, it was just possession. He wasn't using it. Unless something else comes out, yes, of course I'll give him horses."

I dunno. Maybe he was just a diligent trainer. A little known fact to cappers is that for morning works it has long been public knowledge that in Kentucky the infield of many racetracks are littered with cobras. He was probably being cautious. If one of his charges were bitten, he would have antidote. I know this is true. Being an American history buff I have read many times that in the early 1800's there was a big debate on whether to call Kentucky the Bluegrass state or the Cobra state. The Bluegrassers won, but that does not bely the fact that in every beautiful morning in Kentucky you are taking your life in your own hands.

[DanG]

I dunno. Maybe he was just a diligent trainer. A little known fact to cappers is that for morning works it has long been public knowledge that in Kentucky the infield of many racetracks are littered with cobras. He was probably being cautious. If one of his charges were bitten, he would have antidote. I know this is true. Being an American history buff I have read many times that in the early 1800's there was a big debate on whether to call Kentucky the Bluegrass state or the Cobra state. The Bluegrassers won, but that does not bely the fact that in every beautiful morning in Kentucky you are taking your life in your own hands.
:lol:

Perfect Dean!

BTW: Great avatar from Big Mack. :ThmbUp:

[Greyfox]

"I don't know what he did wrong," said Lizza, who called Biancone "one of the 10 best horsemen" in the U.S. "From what I read in the papers, it was just possession. He wasn't using it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Come on gang. Doesn't everyone you know carry a little vial of the cobra venom. Get with it.

[46zilzal]

All of the standardbred guys who work the gate told me this was a commonly used med in the early 90's in their community.

[ponyplayerdotca]

There's no way to punish these people in the industry. Legally, financially, historically, or other, there is no way.

Biancone will not suffer financially at all from this 6-month suspension. He has little to no fines to pay. He already has owners lining up to re-invest their stock in him as soon as he's allowed back in.

The super trainers will never be penalized legitimately in this sport because their isn't any kind of horse racing "supreme court" or NFL commissioner to dole out actual punishment and make it stick.

There's no point in getting upset about it. There's nothing horseplayers can do to stop the insanity.

Trainers train. Some do it ethically. Others cut corners and bleed the system for all its worth by using illegal drugs in the name of the almighty dollar. Many of us know who they are.

The horse racing industry is a "closed shop" of blue-bloods, politicians, shysters, and con artists. We are merely footing the bill. We can't help ourselves stay away, so they've got us by the you-know-what. Case closed.

[Greyfox]

There's no way to punish these people in the industry. Legally, financially, historically, or other, there is no way.

.

Unfortunately, you are probably right.
However historically, there was a way. But with political correctness, rights, and Supreme Court appeals yada, yada, yada, all of that has gone the way of the Kiwi bird.
When I started at the track as a kid, unsavory types were banned for life.
Not only that two plain clothes detectives used to overlook everyone coming through the gates at the small track that I played at. Any bad actors had the run put on them right away. Banned for life!!

[DeanT]

Unfortunately, you are probably right.
However historically, there was a way. But with political correctness, rights, and Supreme Court appeals yada, yada, yada, all of that has gone the way of the Kiwi bird.
When I started at the track as a kid, unsavory types were banned for life.
Not only that two plain clothes detectives used to overlook everyone coming through the gates at the small track that I played at. Any bad actors had the run put on them right away. Banned for life!!
The swashbuckling way of the old west - which imo is what racing is.

I spoke with an old time trainer not long ago. I said "what about (trainer X)" and those like him. He said, in the old days this would not have gone through an appeals process, or be aired in the public and in many cases there would have not even been a positive test. A few of the fellas would have had a "chat" with him behind the barn. He would not be using anything again after that chat.

[Pell Mell]

I dunno. Maybe he was just a diligent trainer. A little known fact to cappers is that for morning works it has long been public knowledge that in Kentucky the infield of many racetracks are littered with cobras. He was probably being cautious. If one of his charges were bitten, he would have antidote. I know this is true. Being an American history buff I have read many times that in the early 1800's there was a big debate on whether to call Kentucky the Bluegrass state or the Cobra state. The Bluegrassers won, but that does not bely the fact that in every beautiful morning in Kentucky you are taking your life in your own hands.

I live in TN which is next to KY and have never heard of Cobras in either state. We have plenty of Copperheads and Rattlers. Can you show a reference to Cobras in KY?

[john del riccio]

Many of us have seen alot of these types come & go; Barerra, Surey, Ferriola, (funny how i am mentioning all NY guys here...). Eventually, they all get theirs but alll the damage that they do along the way doesn't ever get addressed. The bettors take it on the chin as do rival stables running clean. The track MGMT doesn't want to go near this with a 10 foot pole either.

Whats going down in Vegas as we speak may be a prelude of alot of reform and I for one woiuld absolutely welcome it. The guys running their mouth in this article haven't just joined the racing game, they know the score and it really insults the intellegence of us all when they make quotes like they did.

Eventually, this will be goverment regulated and more govermnet is almost never a good idea in a free market capitalistic society but we may very well have no choice. A zero tolerance policy and a few well known guys being made exceptions of will do the trick and clean up 95% of the backstretch nonsense; as long as the pressure remains on.

John

[Handiman]

I take Cumidin(sp), which is rat poision to keep my blood thin due to heart surgery...I find a little nip of cobra venom every morning helps take the edge off. :lol: Doesn't affect my blood thinnning at least....apparently screws up my typing though.


Handi :)

[Semipro]

I live in TN which is next to KY and have never heard of Cobras in either state. We have plenty of Copperheads and Rattlers. Can you show a reference to Cobras in KY? Only Cobras in KY were made by Ford. Just some historical trivia.

[kenwoodallpromos]

IMO the only way to really punish the trainer is to also punish ALL of their owners and let the owners "take him behind the barn".
As far as I know the state commisions control all the licenses, including as bloodstock agent. PB was allowed to continue procuring runners for next year, so no real punishment was done that keeps him out of racing for ANY length of time. How much can he make as buying agent for big owners at auctions?
"Special to The Washington Post
Saturday, April 21, 2007; E05



In February last year, Patrick Biancone was at Calder Race Course in Florida for a Fasig-Tipton auction of 2-year-old horses in training. Consulting with expert Irish bloodstock agent Demi O'Byrne, Biancone watched a young colt work out over the track and knew it was one to buy.

Others, apparently, did as well, but Biancone had an advantage: He also was working with owners Michael Tabor and John Magnier, who in partnership probably spend more money on racehorses than anyone in the world, except the sheiks of Dubai. When the bidding stopped, Biancone had his horse -- for $2 million."

[PaceAdvantage]

I betcha if we started jailing some of these guys for "tampering with the outcome of a pari-mutuel event," things might change for the bettor (pun intended).

[samyn on the green]

It is still not proved that Biancone administered this cobra venom to his horses. The vial was inside of the vets bag. Could it be that the vet popped the bag in the fridge while he was making his rounds? Maybe just maybe Biancone knew nothing of the venom. Seems like Kentucky is making an example out of Biancone after years of lax rules and no enforcement. Since it has never been proven that Biancone injected his charges legs with the venom, whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty? The owners in the article got it right, the internet malcontents in the peanut gallery have it wrong.

[cj]

...whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty? .

Ask the jockeys from Great Lakes this question? It seems the two are treated on two different levels. Jockeys are punished to the fullest extent even with scant proof, while trainers are given every break.

Which do you think is more likely to try to cheat, a jockey or a trainer?

[Greyfox]

The owners in the article got it right, the internet malcontents in the peanut gallery have it wrong.

The fact is a reasonable innocent man would insist that he was innocent and accept no sentence at all. He'd fight this hammer, tooth, and nail.
Biancone has agreed to a "lighter penalty." That tells me that he knows that he was up to something. And he knows that the authorities know. This guy wasn't born yesterday and this isn't the first time he's been under the microscope for this kind of crap.
He never appealed the charge. He appealed the sentence.

[john del riccio]

It is still not proved that Biancone administered this cobra venom to his horses. The vial was inside of the vets bag. Could it be that the vet popped the bag in the fridge while he was making his rounds? Maybe just maybe Biancone knew nothing of the venom. Seems like Kentucky is making an example out of Biancone after years of lax rules and no enforcement. Since it has never been proven that Biancone injected his charges legs with the venom, whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty? The owners in the article got it right, the internet malcontents in the peanut gallery have it wrong.

You have got to be kidding ?

John

[DJofSD]

I think that the vet, trainer and owner should all be injected with whatever they are putting into their horses.

That should put a stop to it.

(And I'm only half way kidding.)

[arkansasman]

Who will be the first trainer to be caught with snail venom?

[DanG]

Who will be the first trainer to be caught with snail venom?
John Candlin...

Last 365: 3 / 133 including a nice round 0 / 51 at a route. :eek:

[Tom]

I betcha if we started jailing some of these guys for "tampering with the outcome of a pari-mutuel event," things might change for the bettor (pun intended).

Amen. Personal financial responisibility for every nickel re-distributed as a result of cheating. About one time should do it for most.

[racefinder2]

All this stuff just fits my theory and 2c on the subject---that almost ALL racehorses that have been racing-training for any length of time are given all kinds of therapeutic and or performance enhancing meds-steroids-whatever.

I accept what is probably just a fact..the trainers need to win races to keep their jobs....and they will go to whatever means necessary if there are
no rules against it...then try and push the envelope if they can.

Didnt the NYRA/Jockey Club try for years and years to 'hold out' against Lasix as it was a known masking-diluting agent for other more dubious chemical agents--yet they too had to give in due to the reality that other jurisdictions were far more liberal>
All the governing bodies can do is to set rules and limits, and those who go over the line are duly held accountable....
There is a good (fiction)book about the English Jky Club investigating some strange betting coups/form reversals in horses from a known gambling stable--turns out they were training the horse w a flame thrower and dog whistle. Now this is the kind of guy that needs to get to the bottom of some of the strange form reversals here.......'For Kicks' - Dick Francis.........

[riskman]

We’ve got people involved in horse racing that would be willing to do anything to get to the finish line first.
Concerns have been raised about anabolic and androgenic steroids, which the racing industry plans to regulate by banning all but a handful of them. There is talk,the Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association will prohibit use of steroids in horses competing in graded stakes effective Jan. 1, 2008. Why only graded stakes?

Do steroids increase performance in race horses? Some say not. I know they increase muscle mass, stamina and blood volume so they must increase performance.I am sick of all this BS about medication--legal or illegal--in racehorses. With all the other problems this indusry has the public perception is not favorable.

[racefinder2]

Youre absolutely right on this---why in only graded stakes, indeed...

To h*ll w public perceptions, I would love a squeaky clean game, but who are you and I against the powers that be. Also the 'training vs race day' arguments, and of course, the dollars. ALWAYS the dollars. And the end result that fewer horses would be racing, etc etc etc. Maybe thats not such a bad thing....although it might be considered 'anti-capitalism/growth/the industry' by a certain segment....hmmmmm.......

I would just assume ban most everything that
creates a 'chemical edge', but you know, its hard to put the genie back in the bottle. I was just telling it the way I see it, instead of being paranoid about it.
Theres also the sales game to deal with as well, pumping up sales horses w whatever to get a better price...

My thought here is that a lot of stuff regarding the chemistry aspect of racing has now seen the light of day and, longterm, thats another positive thing.

Part of the rest of my 2c(I suppose Im up to a nickel by now)is that horses arent racing faster than before, but are being raced HARDER, as in the intensity of the amt of speed in given races, esp at the top levels, as a result of this trained up, juiced up, inbred, and chemically enhanced speed speed speed.....thats horseracing..and certain people have a conscience and certain ones dont....I wish I could affect an immediate solution but things tend to work themselves out in the end...

[takeout]

IMO the only way to really punish the trainer is to also punish ALL of their owners
Agree totally. Until such time as suspensions actually shut an operation down they remain the biggest farce in the industry. A suspension should mean that the horses don’t race, period.

[bflodave]

I totally disagree. There IS something we betters can do- withhold our bets! I haven't bet keeneland this meet, and won't - in protest over this sham. I also won't bet any race biancone has a horse entered in. That's the only way to get the attention of the tracks; The only way to get the racing commissions to have some backbone. If you shrug and say there's nothing we can do then they win. One dollar at atime will eventually make a difference.

[PaceAdvantage]

It is still not proved that Biancone administered this cobra venom to his horses. The vial was inside of the vets bag. Could it be that the vet popped the bag in the fridge while he was making his rounds?Biancone has been getting fined all over the place for positives lately:

Biancone Fined for California Medication Infraction
Trainer Patrick Biancone has been fined $10,000 by California stewards for a medication infraction dating to Jan. 7.Trainer Biancone Receives 15-Day Suspension in Kentucky
Trainer Patrick Biancone has been ordered by Kentucky racing stewards to serve a 15-day suspension after a horse under his care tested positive for prohibited drugs at Churchill Downs this past spring, the Kentucky Horse Racing Authority said Aug. 30.Biancone went to Hong Kong in 1990 and was a leading trainer there until 1999 when his license was suspended for 10 months for three drug positives. By the end of the year he was in the U.S. working as an advisor for Frank Stronach's racing stable.Heck, I'm the first guy to step up and defend a trainer on everyone's "bash list" but there is no defending this guy....

[DJofSD]

Watched a couple episodes of "The Works" on TVG last night. He received special treatment with a couple of works for his BC entries. One was a work from the gate on a day that usually does not have gate works and the other was a work over the grass, again, on a day that usually does not have that coarse available. The long distance camera shot of him speaking to his assistant trainer and talking on the cell phone left me with the strong impression nothing has really changed. But then, not's not new news, is it.