Turkey? well named country

[46zilzal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

Denying what happened won't change historical fact.

[Tom]

Is there a country named Dressing?

[46zilzal]

They have recalled their ambassador over the pending bill before congress relating to Armenian genocide, a well documented historical fact.

[Greyfox]

Is there a country named Dressing?

No silly. But phonetically there's one called Grease.
I think it's near Phone Neeshia.

[46zilzal]

Robert Kocharian, Armenia's president, has welcomed a vote by a US House of Representatives' committee supporting the description of mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks after 1915 as genocide.

He said: "We hope this process will lead to a full recognition by the United States of America of the fact of the Armenian genociders."

[toetoe]

What Jackie Gleason said about the Germans in 'Smokey and the Bandit' applies here: "The goddamn Americans got nuthin to do with it." This smacks of the Berkeley City Council sistering up with Hanoi, or kissing Che's @ss, or whatever they used to do. What about the Indians on our own continent ? What the HELL is going on ?

[Greyfox]

While I do not agree with President Bush on many issues, I agree with his stance here. It makes no sense to alienate U.S. ally Turkey by passing a nebulous bill that claims a genocide took place. The historical facts also include that many Turks were also massacred.

Congress passing this bill jeopardizes U.S. involvement at a strategic air base in Turkey. The base is absolutely necessary to supply troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Apparently 8 former U.S. Secretaries of State have stood against this bill!
To pass it at this time is dumb, dumb, dumb. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[46zilzal]

Wikipedia describes it thus: The confiscation of Armenian property and the slaughter of Armenians that ensued upon the law's enactment outraged much of the western world. While the Ottoman Empire's wartime allies offered little protest, a wealth of German and Austrian historical documents has since come to attest to the witnesses' horror at the killings and mass starvation of Armenians. In the United States, the New York Times reported almost daily on the mass murder of the Armenian people, describing the process as "systematic", "authorized" and "organized by the government." Theodore Roosevelt would later characterize this as "the greatest crime of the war."

Revisionists can say what they want, but multiple sources at the time, saw first hand evidence of this.

[Greyfox]

So what is the justification and motivation for a bill labelling it 90 years or so later? Perhaps we should revisit the British invasions of the various Commonwealth countries and tag them with genocide as well.
This bill is dangerous to the security of deployed soldiers. It has no justification except bloody mindedness. Why does the U.S. have to get involved with it?

[46zilzal]

Well researched too.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm

Let's see, just what is the major religion of Turkey? I wouldn't
doubt that almost anything might set them off.

[46zilzal]

This might be at the heart of all of this. Reuters reports:
The Kurdish statement came on Thursday as legislators in Turkey vowed to submit a request to parliament that it authorize military operations against Kurdish fighters based in Northern Iraq.

"The resolution won't go to parliament today. It will be sent to parliament after [the] Bayram [holiday]," the Reuters news agency reported a senior AK Party politician as saying.

The Kurdish people have, in all of this, been very cooperative with the U.S. army's presence.

[Greyfox]

The Kurdish people have, in all of this, been very cooperative with the U.S. army's presence.

And to a point the Turks have also been cooperative.
What is your stance on this 46Z? (And please don't quote from other sources like Wiki, reuters, or IVAW etc.) Your views.

[46zilzal]

It happened, the rest of the world knows it did. To deny reality makes no sense. PBS had a very good show about this last year and the debate afterward was ludicrous, showing Turkish officials denying reports and photographs from several independent sources.

I have been reading about a bunch of laws they have which lead to a fellow's murder last year for "insulting Turkishness."
From Reuters: Aram Dink and Serkis Seropyan were found guilty of insulting the Turkish identity for an article published last year and each given one-year suspended sentences

The European Union is urging Turkey to scrap article 301 of the penal code, which forbids "insulting Turkishness", saying it restricts freedom of speech.

Erdal Dogan, the journalists' lawyer, said the men would appeal to a higher court.

The case against Hrant Dink, for calling the killings of Armenians during World War I a genocide, was dropped after his death, but the court continued with the prosecution of the other men.

Dink had already been convicted of the charges and was appealing his case when he was shot dead in Istanbul.

[Greyfox]

So a lot of crap happened in history.
Of what value, if any, is the current bill before the house, except to put American soldiers in greater harms way? Why the need for the U.S. to pass a bill recognizing what may or may not have been genocide? Why now? Why ever?
What are the ramifications of this bill on today's Turkish regime? What will be the effect on international relations?

[Tom]

It is not revisionism and it is not denial to NOT pass this measure. What possible use is it? It happened whether we pass this or not.

What's next, a resolution that wool itches?

[46zilzal]

Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe it is a ploy to complicate the war as to shorten it. I don't know.

[betchatoo]

I rarely agree with anything this administration does, however I'm on their side in this one. What possible difference can it make if the Congress says that Armenians were slaughtered (and they were) in 1915? This makes even less sense then condemning Rush Limbaugh or the NY Times (both major wastes of time). Note to Congress: if you want to pick a fight with the President, do it on something that matters.

[russowen77]

This is about as stupid as Congress gets. I was stationed there for a few months. They are about as fine a people as you can find in the region. I would kill for some Ekmek. They have been solid allies for years. They never blinked during the Cuban missile crisis when almost everyone else would have bailed.

We are at war on their borders. We don't want them fighting the Kurds. What do we do. Condemn them now. The insanity is almost beyond belief.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The fun with your naivety never enda! this is an old bill revived because Demos cannot stop the war, so they are trying to screw our allies by bringing up stuff that happened before the present ruling system of Turkey existed.
46- I am shocked you know nothing about thew DEFEAT of the Ottoman Empire!! It no longer exists! This is a meaninlless bill from a do-nothing Congress with extremely bad poll numbers.
TYhis Turkey of a bill is all dressing!

[Tom]

It is irresponsible of congress. It is what I expected from a BITCH as SOH and TURD in the Senate. Nancy and Dingy are traitors. If I were Bush, I would declare the DNC a terrorist organization and start rounding them up.

[Secretariat]

"The twentieth century was marred by wars of unimaginable brutality, mass murder and genocide. History records that the Armenians were the first people of the last century to have endured these cruelties. The Armenians were subjected to a genocidal campaign that defies comprehension and commands all decent people to remember and acknowledge the facts and lessons of an awful crime in a century of bloody crimes against humanity. If elected President, I would ensure that our nation properly recognizes the tragic suffering of the Armenian people. "

- A letter from George W. Bush, Feb. 19, 2000 to the Armenian National Committe of America

"Gordon Johndroe, a White House spokesman, said Bush "reiterated his opposition to this resolution, the passage of which would be harmful to U.S. relations with Turkey."

Johndroe said Bush believes the Armenian episode ranks among the greatest tragedies of the 20th century, but the determination whether "the events constitute a genocide should be a matter for historical inquiry, not legislation."

Historians estimate that up to 1.5 million Armenians were killed by Ottoman Turks around the time of World War I, an event widely viewed by genocide scholars as the first genocide of the 20th century. Turkey denies that the deaths constituted genocide, saying the toll has been inflated and those killed were victims of civil war and unrest."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/05/america/NA-GEN-US-Turkey-Genocide.php

.................................................. ....................

-----

I thouht about the hypocrisy of this, but when I re-read GW's statement: "If elected President, I would ensure that our nation properly recognizes the tragic suffering of the Armenian people. "

I suppose he could argue he was never elected, toherwise he's a hypocrite.

[46zilzal]

The fun with your naivety never enda! this is an old bill revived because Demos cannot stop the war, so they are trying to screw our allies by bringing up stuff that happened before the present ruling system of Turkey existed.

If you read a few posts ahead, that was my guess as well.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Here is something Clinton refused to do for Arnemia:
"10 January 2005

Bush Extends Normal Trade Relations Treatment to Armenia
Says Armenia has made "considerable progress in enacting market reforms"

President Bush issued a proclamation January 7 extending unconditional normal trade relations treatment to Armenian products entering the United States, effective immediately.

Armenia has made “considerable progress in enacting market reforms” and has “demonstrated a strong desire to build a friendly and cooperative relationship with the United States," Bush said.

Following is his proclamation:

(begin text)


THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

January 7, 2005

TO EXTEND NONDISCRIMINATORY TRADE TREATMENT

(NORMAL TRADE RELATIONS TREATMENT)

TO THE PRODUCTS OF ARMENIA

- - - - - - -

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

A PROCLAMATION

1. Since declaring its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, Armenia has made considerable progress in enacting market reforms and on February 5, 2003, Armenia acceded to the World Trade Organization (WTO). The extension of unconditional normal trade relations treatment to the products of Armenia will permit the United States to avail itself of all rights under the WTO with respect to Armenia. Armenia has demonstrated a strong desire to build a friendly and cooperative relationship with the United States and has been found to be in full compliance with the freedom of emigration requirements under title IV of the Trade Act of 1974 (the "1974 Act") (19 U.S.C. 2431 et seq.).

2. Pursuant to section 2001(b) of Public Law 108-429, 118 Stat. 2588, and having due regard for the findings of the Congress in section 2001(a) of said law, I hereby determine that chapter 1 of title IV of the 1974 Act (19 U.S.C. 2431-2439) should no longer apply to Armenia.

3. Section 604 of the 1974 Act (19 U.S.C. 2483), as amended, authorizes the President to embody in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States the substance of relevant provisions of that Act, or other acts affecting import treatment, and of actions taken thereunder.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, acting under the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, including but not limited to section 2001(b) of Public Law 108-429, and section 604 of the 1974 Act, do proclaim that:

(1) Nondiscriminatory trade treatment (normal trade relations treatment) shall be extended to the products of Armenia, which shall no longer be subject to chapter 1 of title IV of the 1974 Act.

(2) The extension of nondiscriminatory treatment to products of Armenia shall be effective as of the date of signature of this proclamation.

(3) All provisions of previous proclamations and executive orders that are inconsistent with the actions taken in this proclamation are superseded to the extent of such inconsistency.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this seventh day of January, in the year of our Lord two thousand five, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-ninth.

GEORGE W. BUSH

(end text)

(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
PAGE TOOLS Email this story
Print this story
XML Transcript
Article translated in: Русский
Related Collections
Current Issues
Europe and Eurasia
Trade and Economics
__________________
THANKS A LOT 46, FOR MAKING SIDE AGAIN WITH THE NEOCONS!!
KEEP TRYING!

[highnote]

Has a bill ever been passed by Congress recognizing any other act of genocide?

[Tom]

This whole thing underscores just what a pathetic, worthless, ineffective congress this one really is. Nothing accomplished in almost 10 months, and they have time for this knucklehead stuff that does nothing to remedy an injustice nor provide a public benefit.

What do you get when you cross a BITCH with a TURD?



NOTHING! :lol::lol::lol:

[Greyfox]

What do you get when you cross a BITCH with a TURD?



That's too easy. What do you get when you cross a BIRCH with a TURD?

Answer: Tree and a Turd.

[Tom]

This whole thing is an attempt by Congress to piss off Turkey and get them to stop allowing us access – in effect, cutting off our supply lines to our troops.

This is not only treason, it is an act of war on our nation by a rogue government. It demands retaliatory action by the White House. Declare a national emergency, DISBAND congress, and install martial law while members of congress are rounded up and sent to Gitmo for further interrogation pending a trail for war crimes.

This irresponsible action could also have profound effects on Turkey by pushing them further away from the West and democracy and towards muslim extremism and Iranian sympathy.

France did the same thing a year ago, and Turkey has severed military relations with them in retaliation.

Hopefully, they still have that gallows in Iraq, the one Sadaam swung from. WE have a great need for it here, in DC, on the square.

[Secretariat]

Has a bill ever been passed by Congress recognizing any other act of genocide?

Sure. The Holocaust, Rwanda, Apartheid. I'm not sure about Darfur.

[Tom]

Perhaps everyone would be better off if we quit talking about these autrocities and starting doing something about them.

[ddog]

sure it does, the good is getting re-elected!
27-21 in committee 8 demo thunbs down 8 repubs thunbs up.

There is in a few states a significant Armeniam lobby.

This is old ground, Bush (both of them) were in favour of this or real close when they were running as well.

Nothing more than fake votes for bucks.

They will being it to the floor, i suspect, and it will not pass.

Have your cake and eat it kind of deal.

If you want to worry about something , worry about stopping PKK attacks on Turkish soldiers.

That's "terrorism" in those parts.
They will be into Iraq before we are out.

Do we let Turkey take out the Kurds then?
Could we stop it if we wanted to?

What fun that will be our supply lines,bases,etc.