History of Our Tolerance

[hcap]

What some Christians did in the name of God and greed.
Islamofascism fighters beware, ideology by itself does not explain atrocities against fellow human beings.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocide5.htm

"The population of North America prior to the first sustained European contact in 1492 CE is a matter of active debate. Various estimates of the pre-contact Native population of the continental U.S. and Canada range from 1.8 to over 12 million. 4 Over the next four centuries, their numbers were reduced to about 237,000 as Natives were almost wiped out. Author Carmen Bernand estimates that the Native population of what is now Mexico was reduced from 30 million to only 3 million over four decades. 13 Peter Montague estimates that Europeans once ruled over 100 million Natives throughout the Americas.

European extermination of Natives started with Christopher Columbus' arrival in San Salvador in 1492. Native population dropped dramatically over the next few decades. Some were directly murdered by Europeans. Others died indirectly as a result of contact with introduced diseases for which they had no resistance -- mainly smallpox, influenza, and measles.

Later European Christian invaders systematically murdered additional Aboriginal people, from the Canadian Arctic to South America. They used warfare, death marches, forced relocation to barren lands, destruction of their main food supply -- the Buffalo -- and poisoning. Some Europeans actually shot at Indians for target practice. 14

Oppression continued into the 20th century, through actions by governments and religious organizations which systematically destroyed Native culture and religious heritage. One present-day byproduct of this oppression is suicide. Today, Canadian Natives have the highest suicide rate of any identifiable population group in the world. Native North Americans are not far behind.

The genocide against American Natives was one of the most massive, and longest lasting genocidal campaigns in human history. It started, like all genocides, with the oppressor treating the victims as sub-humans. It continued until almost all Natives were wiped of the face of the earth, along with much of their language, culture and religion.

We believe that:
Only the mass murder of European Jews by Christians from 306 to 1945 CE was of longer duration.
Only the mass murder by the government of the USSR of about 41 million of its citizens (1917 to 1987), and by the government of China of about 35 million of its citizens (1949 to 1987) may have involved greater loss of life.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I am not European; the last generation of mine coming from Italy was 1903; prior to that it was the 1700's. I am English/Italian/Scottish/Germanic/Irish/Cherokee/Canadian and my 2nd great grandad was wet nursed by a black woman.
I see that you do not distinguish between the European sectors. I have no Dutch or Spanish ancestry, which accounts for a great deal of the murdering.
You are correct in that in the USA there is no accurate way to know the number of Native Americans at the time of Columbus. In North America part of the killings you mentioned were done by other than English, by other native American nations and by whites in wars; were the result of forced relocations and also sickness newly brought by Europeans. Most Eastern Native American nations fought with the British and againt us in the Revolution.
I am not interested in knowing the numbers; just that as of right now descendents of my Cherokee ancesators are being treated decently.
Native American Ancestry- Another thing that you did not mention is that many Native Americans intermarried with Europeans, and that the vast majority of those in the USA with Native American ancestry do not know it or do not acknowledge it in polls or censuses which ask for only 1 ethnicity.
In light of the fact the there are official and unofficial holidays in the USA for various groups from 1 day to 1 month, IMO there should be a majorly recognizable time (month) set aside for native American recognition. I think September would be fine.
I am not holding my breath though, as Jan 2006 was the first time the US Government officially acknowledged that the majority of the Cherokees did not want to go west of the Mississippi (The Black Lands) to Oklahoma during the Trail of Tears (The Trail Where We Cried). This was done by Congress and Bush by putting into law an extenstion of the Trail of Tears Park System, in which they included the Cherokee Memorial Petition that I had brought out of the dust of the shelves of the National Archivves and made into a 35mm film. Until that time (1999), there was only the original and it will never be copied again as it fell apart during copying. It was "tabled" by the US Senate (ignored) originally 160+ years prior.
"Treaty of New Echota (1835)

The State of Georgia continued to press for Indian lands, and a dissident group of Cherokees known as the Ridge Party began negotiating a treaty with the federal government. The group, led by Major Ridge and including his son John, Elias Boudinot, and his brother Stand Watie, signed a treaty at New Echota in 1835. Despite the majority opposition to this treaty, opposition that was led by Principal Chief John Ross, the eastern lands were to be sold for $4.5 million, and the Cherokees would be moved beyond the Mississippi River to Indian Territory. The Senate ratified the treaty despite knowledge that no official representative of the Cherokee Nation signed it. ****Ross gathered a petition of over 15,000 signatures asking Congress to void the treaty. The petition was ignored and within two years the Cherokees were forcibly removed from their ancestral homelands."

[Greyfox]

What some Christians did in the name of God and greed.
Islamofascism fighters beware, ideology by itself does not explain atrocities against fellow human beings.

.

Once again hcap you are selectively reporting to support your case.
Because Europeans came to the "new world," doesn't necessarily mean that they were Christians. Some might have been.
More importantly natives of the Americas did not have an immunity to various diseases. Sadly, large numbers were vulnerable to a number of infections with the worst being small pox. Check the following article.
Europeans didn't deliberately pass on these diseases.

http://www.thefurtrapper.com/indian_smallpox.htm

[NoDayJob]

You can't say that this forum isn't tolerant. You and I are still around--- :lol:

[kenwoodallpromos]

Actually I think it was mainly the "Mission indians" of California trhat were mainly taken off their land in the name of religion- most others (actually those also) were removed for their land, and most of the time that was acknowledged by the US government, with the excuse usually being given that the white populace refused to stop expanding the land they used.'The old slaver Jefferson was who first suggested removing all native americans to west of the Ms.
The modern "virgin hunters" are not into removal and letting them live, but killing or making them pray 5 times a day to the Ethnic Cleanser in the Sky.

[GameTheory]

It only makes sense to identify them as "Christians" if they were killing in the name of Christianity as the fundamentalist Muslims do in the name of Islam. (Christians never kill themselves in an effort to take out as many non-Christians as possible.) Comparing a land grab to a holy war is silly. That is one interesting and very dangerous feature of the jihadists we are currently fighting -- they don't care whether or not they survive, they just want to kill as many "infidels" as possible in the name of Islam...

[delayjf]

I'm a bit shocked that he didn't blame President Bush. :eek:

[Tom]

Bush speak with foked tongue. :D

[hcap]

Later European Christian invaders systematically murdered additional Aboriginal people, from the Canadian Arctic to South America. They used warfare, death marches, forced relocation to barren lands, destruction of their main food supply -- the Buffalo -- and poisoning. Some Europeans actually shot at Indians for target practice.Oppression continued into the 20th century, through actions by governments and religious organizations which systematically destroyed Native culture and religious heritage.
............................................

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/08/4398/

"When Columbus first landed on Hispaniola in 1492, virtually the entire island was covered by lush forest. The Taino “Indians” who loved there had an apparently idyllic life prior to Columbus, from the reports left to us by literate members of Columbus’s crew such as Miguel Cuneo.

When Columbus and his crew arrived on their second visit to Hispaniola, however, they took captive about two thousand local villagers who had come out to greet them. Cuneo wrote: “When our caravels… where to leave for Spain, we gathered…one thousand six hundred male and female persons of those Indians, and these we embarked in our caravels on February 17, 1495…For those who remained, we let it be known (to the Spaniards who manned the island’s fort) in the vicinity that anyone who wanted to take some of them could do so, to the amount desired, which was done.”

Cuneo further notes that he himself took a beautiful teenage Carib girl as his personal slave, a gift from Columbus himself, but that when he attempted to have sex with her, she “resisted with all her strength.” So, in his own words, he “thrashed her mercilessly and raped her.”

While Columbus once referred to the Taino Indians as cannibals, a story made up by Columbus - which is to this day still taught in some US schools - to help justify his slaughter and enslavement of these people. He wrote to the Spanish monarchs in 1493: “It is possible, with the name of the Holy Trinity, to sell all the slaves which it is possible to sell…Here there are so many of these slaves, and also brazilwood, that although they are living things they are as good as gold…”

Some Christians, not all. But many Christian Europeans were willing to partake of the spoils.

[delayjf]

Where were the atheist and the agnostic?? Why didn’t they stop these atrocities?? :eek: :eek:

[hcap]

Where were the atheist and the agnostic?? Why didn’t they stop these atrocities?? :eek: :eek:
Sorry either burned at the stake as Heretics or forcibly converted

[delayjf]

Sorry either burned at the stake as Heretics or forcibly converted
Kind of makes one take pause an appreciate the US Military and how it preserves our freedoms, now doesn't it.

[PaceAdvantage]

What some Christians did in the name of God and greed.
Islamofascism fighters beware, ideology by itself does not explain atrocities against fellow human beings.This coming from the same guy who chastises folks for bringing up "what Clinton did?"

[Snag]

Sorry either burned at the stake as Heretics or forcibly converted

Once again hcap has no answer when called out.

[46zilzal]

Dylan knew who is behind all of this endless crap.

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

[kenwoodallpromos]

"And I hope that you die".
Says it all about the righeous rockers!
I prefer Edwin Star's "War"
As to Dylan, I like "Rainy Day Women #12 and 35".
______

[hcap]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL1162787420071011?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true

Unprecedented Muslim call for peace with Christians
Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:21am EDT

By Peter Graff

LONDON (Reuters) - More than 130 Muslim scholars from around the globe called on Thursday for peace and understanding between Islam and Christianity, saying "the very survival of the world itself is perhaps at stake".

In an unprecedented letter to Pope Benedict and other Christian leaders, 138 Muslim scholars said finding common ground between the world's biggest faiths was not simply a matter for polite dialogue between religious leaders.

...Such a joint letter is unprecedented in Islam, which has no central authority that speaks on behalf of all worshippers.

The list of signatories includes senior figures throughout the Middle East, Asia, Africa, Europe and North America. They represent Sunni, Shi'ite and Sufi schools of Islam.

Among them were the grand muftis of Egypt, Palestine, Oman, Jordan, Syria, Bosnia and Russia and many imams and scholars. War-torn Iraq was represented by both Shi'ites and Sunnis.

...Aref Ali Nayed, one of the signatories and a senior adviser to the Cambridge Interfaith Program at Cambridge University in Britain, said the signatories represented the "99.9 percent of Muslims" who follow mainstream schools and oppose extremism.

[Snag]

I guess the letter means our policy is having a positive effect on them in Afgan and Iraq if they want peace now. I would guess they have already relayed their request to their followers.

[Tom]

Maybe Dylan should go over there and inspire them.

How many stones
can a caveman throw,
Before they call him Al Qeda?

The sarin, my friend,
is floating on the wind,
The saring is floating in the wind.

Or,

They'll stone you when you try to take a bus,
They'll stone you if you look like one of us,
Oh I should not feel so all alone,
Everybody must throw stones.

[GaryG]

When lthe radical left (zilly) quotes Bobby D do back up their views they are forgetting an important fact: He admitted he didn't believe that bs, he just needed a vehicle to become known....which he did. Then he moved on to do the things he really wanted to do in Blonde on Blonde and later in the great and underappreciated Blood on the Tracks.