Knife Attack in NY

[JustRalph]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/10/07/2007-10-07_woman_fights_for_life_after_psycho_goes_.html


This is a very scary scenario.............it brings to mind many, many points I would like to make about stupid laws and the things we think will protect us in society......... I will not comment as of yet..........but this case is indicative of so many different reasons why we live in a State of helplessness in our every day lives.

~Snippet~

Woman fights for life after psycho goes on knife rampage

A shirtless madman wielding stolen knives went on a bloody midtown rampage yesterday - stabbing a restaurant worker and a psychologist walking her dog before being shot by an off-duty cop, authorities said.

Deranged Lee Coleman stood wild-eyed over the dog-walker, methodically plunging a knife into her body and face over and over - even pausing to change knives as the woman lay in a pool of blood, screaming for help.

The crazed mental patient got into several confrontations while running up Second Ave. near 35th St. before he took aim at Susan Barron, 67, who was walking to church to have her dog blessed, sources said.

Barron, who lives in the neighborhood, was stabbed at least 10 times in the face, neck, arms and abdomen, leaving her badly mutilated, witnesses said. She was rushed to Bellevue Hospital in critical condition.

"He was chopping down on her," said Andrew Fink, 29, who was getting into a cab when the attack took place. "I saw him hit her at least 10 times. She was screaming and crawling along the street and people were running away.

"It looked like she was trying to crawl into the intersection. She was crying out in pain. He looked very intent. He was systematically bringing the weapon down on her."

~snippet, more at the link~



Follow up links:

On the Women:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/10/07/2007-10-07_stab_victim_a_cancer_survivor_and_wonder-1.html

The Chef that tried to protect her:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/07/2007-10-07_city_should_be_proud_of_amarjit_hero_at_.html

[Tom]

Obviously, we need knife control laws.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Or NY men with guts.
"She was screaming and crawling along the street and people were running away."

[PaceAdvantage]

Two thoughts:

1) Why no details on the knife wielding psycho?

2) This was an incredibly insensitive statement IMO: "Obviously not a Brooklyn dog," one officer said. "I don't want to disparage Manhattan dogs, but a good Brooklyn dog would have ended it before the cop got there." For Pete's sake, a woman is fighting for her life here....this wasn't some purse snatching we're talking about....

[JustRalph]

Two thoughts:

2) This was an incredibly insensitive statement IMO: "Obviously not a Brooklyn dog," one officer said. "I don't want to disparage Manhattan dogs, but a good Brooklyn dog would have ended it before the cop got there." For Pete's sake, a woman is fighting for her life here....this wasn't some purse snatching we're talking about....

yeah, I thought this was stupid to include in the article. I am sure this guy was just joking.........had to be..........

[OTM Al]

It is an often observed phenomenon that when in crowds, people tend to react to situations such as this far less frequently than when they are alone. He seems to have been out there for a while so wonder why no one dialed 911. Of course we are used to crazies wandering the streets here, but they usually don't start knifing people.

[lsbets]

If NYers weren't denied their constitutional rights, someone would have shot the guy and ended it before the off duty cop did.

[OTM Al]

Well yee ha!! In fact, you can get a gun in NYC. Its not as easy as some places, but you can. Owning a gun doesn't seem to be a major issue around here anyway. People don't seem to dispute the strict laws, or if they do, they aren't too vocal about it.

Frankly though I really don't want gunfire going off from some amatuer considering the high population density around here. You miss, there's a fair chance you are going to hit someone. And considering how crazed people get dealing with regular life issues around here, I really don't think we need a bunch of people running around with guns. Gun toating drunked up stock brokers after a market crash just wouldn't be pretty.

I would much rather leave such matters to the police. Again I wonder if we here have become so insensitive to such things that no one considered calling 911 when this guy was acting crazy, but not yet attacking.

[Dick Schmidt]

"I would much rather leave such matters to the police."

Yeah, that works well if you don't mind getting stabbed 10 times in the face and body! I prefer to leave such matters to ME and the .32 in my pocket. Only in NY (or here in LA) would people worry more about "someone might get hurt" and then stand around waiting for the cops while someone DOES get hurt.

Bottom line: in a sudden attack or break in, the police CANNOT protect you. Even if they are right around the corner, you still get stabbed 10 times. Self protection is up to each and every one of us. A pistol in your pocket is worth 100 cops a block away.

Dick

Who do you call to protect you FROM the police?

[lsbets]

Well yee ha!! In fact, you can get a gun in NYC. Its not as easy as some places, but you can. Owning a gun doesn't seem to be a major issue around here anyway. People don't seem to dispute the strict laws, or if they do, they aren't too vocal about it.

Frankly though I really don't want gunfire going off from some amatuer considering the high population density around here. You miss, there's a fair chance you are going to hit someone. And considering how crazed people get dealing with regular life issues around here, I really don't think we need a bunch of people running around with guns. Gun toating drunked up stock brokers after a market crash just wouldn't be pretty.

I would much rather leave such matters to the police. Again I wonder if we here have become so insensitive to such things that no one considered calling 911 when this guy was acting crazy, but not yet attacking.

Al - I was under the impression that you could not carry a handgun in NYC.

Pleanty of places have concealed carry laws - plenty of cities with high population densities. You don't hear stories about people getting shot by crazed, drunken stockbrokers after the market has a bad day. The fact is, guns owed and carried by law abiding citizens help make everyone safer. When Texas passed its concealed carry law, the anti-second amendment crowd predicted blood in the streets. Its simply didn't happen. Same in several other states where concealed carry became an issue. If you spend your life waiting for the cops to come help you, than you are choosing to spend your life as a victim.

[JustRalph]

Dick and LSBets covered it pretty well.

Al, it just doesn't happen. Gun laws only effect one group (or is it "affect"?) and that is law abiding citizens. Criminals are criminals no matter what law you pass. Mental Patients don't consult the criminal code either.

Gun laws do nothing but make us less safe. It stops law abiding citizens from preventing 65 year old women from being stabbed multiple times by mental patients.

[GaryG]

CCW can certaily prevent being DOA. Actually an ADW wouldn't be a bad an alternative to being DOA. How's that for back porch philosophy?

[OTM Al]

I don't think you guys have followed me too well, so let's start over. I am not making a gun control arguement here. I brought up gun laws only in the context that you can legally have a gun in NYC, though the laws are strict. and that it has never been a major issue in the past 15 years I have lived here. Nor am I being victimized because I don't have a gun. The only time I have been victimized by crime was about 10 years ago when I left my office unlocked and somebody took my laptop. Wouldn't have happened if I was in there as it was one of those guys just walking around a building looking for opportunity. We had a bit of it for a while before building security got its act together here and started paying better attention to who was coming and going. So unlike what you see on TV, everyone isn't getting mugged in NYC.

What I am talking about here is this whole idea of vigilante justice. This "I have a gun so I will stop all crime" mentality. First, your average guy isn't going to hit his target from 10+ feet away with his trust sidearm about half the time. Probably has about the same chance of shooting the victim either by missing or with a through and through. Of course you could also pull up on the scene, let fire and hit your target, who happened to be the wrong guy or that the scene you came upon wasn't even a crime. All good enough reasons to me to not be in support of lots of average people running around with guns in their pockets.

You want my opinion on gun laws, then here it is. Clearly these gun laws you want so much aren't stopping crime so they aren't the cure all that they so often get argued as. Absolute restrictions aren't the answer either as I support our constitutional right to bear arms and the motivated criminal will always find a way to get one. I do feel we need strong background checks and any dealer who illegally sells a weapon that is then used in a crime should be held legally liable in the commission of that crime. Most guns in crimes are traced back to a very small percentage of dealers. These people should pay for their actions at the same level as the criminals they enabled.

I personally feel that individuals should not own handguns or automatic weapons. They are made for one purpose, to kill people. Most other products whose sole purpose is to kill people are usually banned, but handguns and automatics seem to get a pass there. You want a rifle or a shotgun, I got no problem. If I felt I needed to protect my home, which I don't, I would get a shotgun. A lot harder to miss with one of those should you need to fire. So that's my 2 cents.

[Tom]

2nd Ammendment. This country was founded by guns.
It is our right to own them.

[JustRalph]

same ole problem al. You ban handguns........and only one type of person won't have them................the "law abiding" person. So you have no effect on the bad guys...........

[Pell Mell]

I don't think you guys have followed me too well, so let's start over. I am not making a gun control arguement here. I brought up gun laws only in the context that you can legally have a gun in NYC, though the laws are strict. and that it has never been a major issue in the past 15 years I have lived here. Nor am I being victimized because I don't have a gun. The only time I have been victimized by crime was about 10 years ago when I left my office unlocked and somebody took my laptop. Wouldn't have happened if I was in there as it was one of those guys just walking around a building looking for opportunity. We had a bit of it for a while before building security got its act together here and started paying better attention to who was coming and going. So unlike what you see on TV, everyone isn't getting mugged in NYC.

What I am talking about here is this whole idea of vigilante justice. This "I have a gun so I will stop all crime" mentality. First, your average guy isn't going to hit his target from 10+ feet away with his trust sidearm about half the time. Probably has about the same chance of shooting the victim either by missing or with a through and through. Of course you could also pull up on the scene, let fire and hit your target, who happened to be the wrong guy or that the scene you came upon wasn't even a crime. All good enough reasons to me to not be in support of lots of average people running around with guns in their pockets.

You want my opinion on gun laws, then here it is. Clearly these gun laws you want so much aren't stopping crime so they aren't the cure all that they so often get argued as. Absolute restrictions aren't the answer either as I support our constitutional right to bear arms and the motivated criminal will always find a way to get one. I do feel we need strong background checks and any dealer who illegally sells a weapon that is then used in a crime should be held legally liable in the commission of that crime. Most guns in crimes are traced back to a very small percentage of dealers. These people should pay for their actions at the same level as the criminals they enabled.

I personally feel that individuals should not own handguns or automatic weapons. They are made for one purpose, to kill people. Most other products whose sole purpose is to kill people are usually banned, but handguns and automatics seem to get a pass there. You want a rifle or a shotgun, I got no problem. If I felt I needed to protect my home, which I don't, I would get a shotgun. A lot harder to miss with one of those should you need to fire. So that's my 2 cents.

Most guys I know here in TN probably wouldn't have much trouble putting one between the eyes at 10 ft let alone miss him.:lol:

[OTM Al]

I don't doubt they could if the target was a stationary paper target and they were in a perfect shooting stance. A moving armed target is an entirely different creature. Half of those most guys you know would probably put one square into their own foot in a rush to fire.

[highnote]

Makes you wonder how the guy was able to get to the point where he was so out of it he starts stabbing people.

Didn't anybody see this coming? Family, friends, social workers?

Maybe he was homeless and just lost it?

[Tom]

I don't doubt they could if the target was a stationary paper target and they were in a perfect shooting stance. A moving armed target is an entirely different creature. Half of those most guys you know would probably put one square into their own foot in a rush to fire.

The bad guys seem to hit thier targets ok.

[JustRalph]

The bad guys seem to hit thier targets ok.

very common fact. There have been studies as to why. It has to do with not being overtrained in most instances.

[highnote]

Plus, if they're psychotic, they probably aren't having the same kind of emotional response as a normal person.

[OTM Al]

Be glad the kid in Ohio yesterday didn't do too good a job of hitting many of his.

[Tom]

Gun laws sure helped out there, huh?
What if the teacher murdered had his own sidearm?