Party Jones

[jognlope]

Was winning everything but now has had a slump, hope he revives tomorrow at Belmont, half to Smarty.

[gIracing]

Was winning everything but now has had a slump, hope he revives tomorrow at Belmont, half to Smarty.

umm.. Smarty Jones is By Elusive Quality out of I'll Get along

party jones is by Elusive Quality out of Spanish Falls


IN horse racing, they are not related.

[jognlope]

a half to Smarty ... they are related

[OTM Al]

No, they have the same sire. To be a half, they must have the same dam. Same sires don't count because the have so many progeny each year.

[rdavislake]

I've heard them called half brother/sister by blood.....

[samyn on the green]

These horses have the same sire but half siblings mean they have the same dam. Either way this beaten claimer is up the track at 9F tomorrow.

[jognlope]

thanks didn't know that. well i'll still enjoy Party despite this anal retentive post.

[gIracing]

i just odn't want you to go around thinking Rags to Riches and Pulpit are half brothers and sisters and crap like that


In horse racing a horse that has the same dam as another horse is the half sibling..

a horse that has a same Dam and the sire of one is the grand sire of the other, is a 3/4 sibling.. for instance

Let's say Empire Maker. He's by Unbridled out of Toussaud. Let's say Toussaud had another colt named Empire Faker and Empire Faker's sire was Unbirdled's Song. empire faker would be a 3/4 brother to Empire maker.

[jognlope]

Gotcha.

[JPinMaryland]

It's still a silly rule. What difference does it make how many offspring a stallion has? His offspring still have 1/2 their DNA originating from him.

[gIracing]

It's still a silly rule. What difference does it make how many offspring a stallion has? His offspring still have 1/2 their DNA originating from him.

2 reasons.

1. A mare has 1 offspring a year. A stallion can sire up to 200 offspring a year.. it's just easier. do you really want to go to a keeneland sale and have to deal with all the damn blacktype that would go along with the AP Indy's and distored humors, etc, we ould still be there now!

2. the genetic makeup is NOT equal. the only genetic maketup that stays the same in a covering is the mares. that's why full siblings are so hit and miss.

A mare's DNA is 50% of the equation and stays the same.. the other 50% has alot of different variables which I won't get into now because I have somewhere to go

[GaryG]

A mare's DNA is 50% of the equation and stays the same.. the other 50% has alot of different variables which I won't get into now because I have somewhere to goSounds like DrugS.....:rolleyes:

[kenwoodallpromos]

If offspring of the same sire and different mares have little in common DNA-wise, why does anybody ever claim racing is going downhill from inbreeding? And why does Storm Cat get $500k per foal when the mares should be getting it instead? That makes no sense to me!
"http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricDams/AmBroodmareofYear.html"

[JPinMaryland]

2. the genetic makeup is NOT equal. the only genetic maketup that stays the same in a covering is the mares. that's why full siblings are so hit and miss.

A mare's DNA is 50% of the equation and stays the same.. the other 50% has alot of different variables which I won't get into now because I have somewhere to go

You seem to have a serious misunderstanding of genetics. There is no greater chance of a mare throwing the exact same DNA to two of her offspring than a stallion throwing the same DNA to two of his.

Perhaps you are thinking of mitochondrial DNA which passed down from X gene to X gene and mutates at a fixed rate and so is though to shed light on how long a species has been evolving although not sure about the logic in all that either. In any case, m-DNA has nothing to do with what genetic traits are passed down however.

[gIracing]

You seem to have a serious misunderstanding of genetics. There is no greater chance of a mare throwing the exact same DNA to two of her offspring than a stallion throwing the same DNA to two of his.

Perhaps you are thinking of mitochondrial DNA which passed down from X gene to X gene and mutates at a fixed rate and so is though to shed light on how long a species has been evolving although not sure about the logic in all that either. In any case, m-DNA has nothing to do with what genetic traits are passed down however.

all I said is what you just said, however I said it in laymen's terms which was my point in the first place.

I have a very strong understanding of genetics.. but I don't have to pull out my textbook to tell you that a broodmare is more im portant that the sire

[46zilzal]

50:50 and both sides vary via meiosis/cross-over unless the laws of genetics changed overnight.

[JPinMaryland]

all I said is what you just said, however I said it in laymen's terms which was my point in the first place.

I have a very strong understanding of genetics.. but I don't have to pull out my textbook to tell you that a broodmare is more im portant that the sire

I dont think I said this:

2. the genetic makeup is NOT equal. the only genetic maketup that stays the same in a covering is the mares. that's why full siblings are so hit and miss.


What does that mean? The mare's DNA stays the same? How so? ANd what does that have to do with full siblings?

Nor do I think I said this:

A mare's DNA is 50% of the equation and stays the same.. the other 50% has alot of different variables which I won't get into now because I have somewhere to go.

Stays the same? The same as what? Her DNA stays the same? I dont think a mare transmits the same DNA to her offspring any more or less than a stallion does. You seem to suggest this then you argue that you are saying the same thing as me.

Just what the hell are you saying?

[gIracing]

kay I see i'm actually going ot have to answer this question

I'm an engineer not a scientist, but I believe full siblings are not the same, genetically speaking. Only identical twins have the same DNA.

The cards dealt to a full sibling are from the same "deck" as the sibling, but they are from a pool of DNA. The only exact constant between siblings is the mitochondrial DNA, from the dam. So if you have an outrageously fantastic female family, chances are an unraced, or lightly raced sibling might actually get a chance at stud. With a full sibling, I think you are dealing with about 50% common DNA. With a half sibling, it drops to 25% or so. So the boost by being related might be more of a market thing. I evaluate each stallion on his own merits, not on who his brothers are.

[rdavislake]

then, it's ok for me to sleep with my sister?..............sorry.............lol

[46zilzal]

from Stanford University on sibling DNA:"Like you, your siblings inherited 23 chromosomes from each of your parents. But because of DNA swapping, their chromosomes have a different combination of genes than yours. Yet on average, half of the genes are still the same.

Why is that? Remember, we have two copies of most of our genes. This means that your parents can pass either of their two copies down to you and your siblings.

Imagine your parent’s genes as coins. The sides of a coin, heads and tails, represent the two copies of each of their genes. The chances of inheriting a head or a tail is just like flipping a coin, totally random.

Since we have 25,000 genes in our DNA, whether we inherit the head or tail of each gene is like flipping a coin 25,000 times. If we do that, we are most likely to get ½ heads and ½ tails.

So if you are inheriting 1/2 heads and 1/2 tails from your parents, the same is true for your sibling. In other words, the two of you are about 50% genetically related. You both may not have exactly 12,500 of each - you may have 12600 heads and 12400 tails and your sibling has 12550 tails and 12450 heads - you are pretty close to 50%."

[jognlope]

Party isn't the same I guess, but WAS boxed in and had to go around so maybe next time, was 3rd.

[samyn on the green]

Party isn't the same I guess, but WAS boxed in and had to go around so maybe next time, was 3rd.Party Jones was off the board. You can't even get it right when the race is over. 30 posts arguing about a hopeless longshot and an plain fact. Think a little indeed.

[jognlope]

You're very boorish. I will never share a horse I like on this fermenting board again. You're so boorish you're lauphable.

[sally]

ok, aside from the attitude failure I was enjoying this thread...so if two horses share the same dam they are half siblings... and of course if they share the same sire and dam they are full siblings...what is it if they just share the sire??

:confused:

[gIracing]

ok, aside from the attitude failure I was enjoying this thread...so if two horses share the same dam they are half siblings... and of course if they share the same sire and dam they are full siblings...what is it if they just share the sire??

:confused:

they then just have the same baby daddy

[jognlope]

that is one of the worst over-used phrases, "to have an attitude." You either have a bad attitude or a good attirude or a pleasant attitude or a nontrusting attiturde or a fed-up attitude. I have all those depending on the sarcasm and meanness level of the board.Then again it's a new day and the coffee's great and I am able to see the flowers through the weeds and enjoy their beauty (on this forum!)

[JPinMaryland]

Thanks for DNA explanation, 46. I think I had forgotten most of that. Also gI made a much more clear/intelligent post so good for him.

On the mitochondrial DNA thing, I dont think that that stuff really has any impact on the genes we inherit does it? It is more a vestigial thing that doesnt function in our genetics but I guess functions in other ways.

What about gI earlier pt. that maternal DNA is much more important than paternal? I know I have a gut feeling that it is, and I think many others feel the same as well. WIth the emphasis on female family's nowdays. But is this really true from a genetic stand pt? I mean is there any reason to think maternal DNA more important than paternal?

I know there is some study on the relation between stamina/female families, any thoughts?