Laurel/Pimlico - DONE

[cj's dad]

Joe and Karin De Francis have sold the remaining 49% of their stock to MEC.

Frank Stronach now has complete ownership of Maryland racing. The end, my friends, is near.

The new governor of the state of Maryland, Martin O' Malley, (mom, as he is referred to by some) who opposed slots when he was not in control of the legislature, is now a proponent of slots coming to Md. tracks. Hard to believe a pol changing horses in the middle of the stream!!!

I admit that at one time I was in favor of slots but after seeing what has happened elsewhere, with horse players being relegated to 2nd class patrons, I have changed my mind. After listening to the horror stories of patrons of Gulfstream and Phila Park, I have come to the belief that if the thoros can't make it on their own then so be it; enough is enough. This slots thing is all political and will never change the face of horse racing.

Larger purses do not change the quality of racing as there are only so many good ponies to fill the cards on a daily basis. And slots do not effect Grade 1-2-3 races.

For those of you who have been to many tracks, as have I, and who wish to count Laurel/Pimlico among those you have visited, do so soon as these 2 are not going to be here much longer:( as if anyone cares!

[bigmack]

You've been professing "the end is near" so long you might have to adjust your moniker.

http://20below.mainetoday.com/blogs/reel/ChickenLittle_300x298.jpg


http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-sp.defrancis25sep25,0,2710094.story

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2007-09/32790943.jpg

[wonatthewire1]

how about building another 'building' to have the slots in or put them on the 1/2 of the existing building facing away from the track

sure you may have a slot player or two move to the horseracing side, but that can be accomplished through education (something in short supply?)

[cj's dad]

You've been professing "the end is near" so long you might have to adjust your moniker.

http://20below.mainetoday.com/blogs/reel/ChickenLittle_300x298.jpg


http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-sp.defrancis25sep25,0,2710094.story

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2007-09/32790943.jpgRacing in Maryland has been so bad for so long that to think that I am a doomsayer is an overstatement. Remember the Laurel International, The Pimlico Special drawing huge crowds as a stand alone event, The De Francis dash drawing the countries top sprinters; I do. I hope I'm wrong but alas I think not!:bang:

[Tom]

Hey, you can always ue another Bed, Bath, and Beyond in the neighborhood.
Maybe a TGIFriday's as well?

[thespaah]

the fact of the matter is MD is surrounded by slot states.These jurisdictions offer much larger purses and that is where the horsemen will go..If the politicos in MD eschew the opportunity to pass slot legislation, MD as a thorughbred racing sate may very well become a memory.

[bigmack]

eschew
Gesundheit

[thespaah]

danka.

[gIracing]

Here is the deal. If you are say.. Pimlico, and within a couple of hours drive I can go to Delaware, Charles Town, Mountineer, Presque Ilse.. all of which offer more money than Pimlico.. you are handicapped.

Maryland and Mass need Slots just to equal the playing field. PA just overtook maryland in number of live foals this year.

If they can't stay in usiness.. think of what that does to the economy... you loose jobs, revenue, taxes, etc. it's bigger than just being "inconveniened".

It doesn't make sense.

I live by oaklawn... we dont' have slots (at lest I haven't seen them) but we have the instant gaming crap... and it's the best thing that ever happened to us. We turn a profit, good racing, good purses. Never had a problem when I go to the track which is damn near every day in season.

here is my bigger problem... The owners of Pimlico and Laurel should do what eveyr other major league franchise would do in this situation.... MOVE TO ANOTHER STATE THAT HAS SLOTS!!!


Slots don't bother me.. i have no problem with people who would not have ocme to thet rack otherwise to come and loose money to make my race watching experience better.

what bothers me is that 15 years from now... Santa Anita park will be Santa Anita Golf Resort, Gaming and also "live racing!"

There are other countries, namly Austraila, that make it work, and make it work damn well, witout the use of slots.

[bigmack]

That didn't take long

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2007/09/24/daily20.html

[cj's dad]

That didn't take long

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2007/09/24/daily20.html

You know Bigmack; here's the deal, you offer no info about where you are from and yet you criticize those of us who take a stand regarding slots (even though I have changed my mind). I am from Maryland and have an idea what is going on here: you don't, unless you live here which we can't know based on your non-bio. So- stick it.

Chicken Little ?? yeah,right !!

The problem with guys(kids?) like you is that you are roamers;no-one knows who you are, (born 1-1-99 ?????) and if you have an agenda or not. It is well known by many on this site who I am and I have a face to many-how 'bout you?????

So, I am debating with an 8 year old or one who has the IQ of an 8 year old:D

[bigmack]

:lol::lol:

Ask around daddyO, most already know I park my can in SanD. We can bring in Jim Lang and I'll reveal my turn off's for you as well if you wish. :lol:

What happened from your post 4 to now? You seemed more rationale then.

I haven't the slighest idea why your bacon is burnt here and I have little interest.

In your first post you wrote:
Hard to believe a pol changing horses in the middle of the stream!!!By pol, did you mean a politician or a Polish person?

[lilmegahertz]

I had just moved to OK just as the bill had been passed to get slots at Remington park so I cannot tell what racing was like before but I do know that the casino section is always crowded even when the live races start. But then you notice a lot more vehicles in the parking lot before post time so it appears that the true handicapper is staying away from the machines. And the gamblers are staying away from the races because it "is too hard" and "they can't understand that stuff". I don't know what is going on in other states but at Remington it seems a happy medium has been found between the two even though it looks like two different establishments on a Sat. night.

I just hope Emerald Downs never gets slots. I was raised in WA and have enjoyed this track since it first opened. Washington state has fans ranging from people just out for the fun and serious handicappers. I do not want to see machines taking away from a truly aesthetically sport by a bunch of bells and whistles......

[PaceAdvantage]

So I am guessing the whole meaning of "kinder and gentler" is lost on some....

[cj's dad]

When slots opened at Del Park several years ago, there was a happy mix between pony players and slots players as far as space and amenities were concerned. As time went by and the slots action overtook race action, space was gobbled up by the slots and more and more the horse players became second class citizens. I don't often go to Charlestown, but the last time I did go, the same thing appears to have taken place. And this is written by a guy who actually lives in these areas; 50 miles and 90 miles respectively from Del Park and CT. In other words, I don't live 3000 miles away. I'm here and have seen what slots have become. As per my first post, I was mistaken re: slots. Let the game (in MD.) stand on it's merits or fade away. I have gathered from reading thousands of posts here that most players are stay at home ADW players, so I'm not sure how the closing of 2 more tracks would effect most, IMHO.

[jma]

When slots opened at Del Park several years ago, there was a happy mix between pony players and slots players as far as space and amenities were concerned. As time went by and the slots action overtook race action, space was gobbled up by the slots and more and more the horse players became second class citizens. I don't often go to Charlestown, but the last time I did go, the same thing appears to have taken place. And this is written by a guy who actually lives in these areas; 50 miles and 90 miles respectively from Del Park and CT. In other words, I don't live 3000 miles away. I'm here and have seen what slots have become. As per my first post, I was mistaken re: slots. Let the game (in MD.) stand on it's merits or fade away. I have gathered from reading thousands of posts here that most players are stay at home ADW players, so I'm not sure how the closing of 2 more tracks would effect most, IMHO.

The one thing you leave out (and I have been to both of these tracks too) is that without slot machines racing does not exist at these tracks today. Delaware was minor league. In the mid-90s the place had tiny purses and broken-down nags. Charles Town was a few notches below minor league. I'm not arguing about slots taking over, but without them horseplayers at those places aren't just second-class citizens: they don't exist at all. Maybe some people would think that for the best---less diluted product, fewer racing days, etc.---but it's a fact. It's not the same as Gulfstream, or even Philadelphia Park, because those tracks would still be around with or without slots. If as you say you're fine with the Maryland tracks not existing if the only option is slots...well, be careful what you wish for.

[takeout]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2007/September/25/Joe-De-Francis-reflects-on-familys-involvement-in-Maryland-racing.aspx
[snip]
The buyout does not completely sever the relationship of the De Francis family to the tracks. The De Francises retain a deal with Magna that entitles them to 18% of any future profits Magna receives from slot machines at the track.
[snip]
De Francis said he would be willing to forgo his share of any slots revenue if it would help spur the passing of alternative gaming legislation that would benefit the tracks. Maryland House Speaker Michael Busch (D-Anne Arundel), who has stymied slot machine legislation in the state, has repeatedly said he would not support a bill that would lead to “unjust enrichment” of the racetrack owners.
[snip]

Comment: “forgo his share”? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

[cj's dad]

Joe De francis made the terrible mistake of supporting Republican candidates for Governor in the last several elections. How dare him think this is a free country.

My last thought on the subject! For now:rolleyes:

[alysheba88]

Its the arms race with tracks, no winners in the end. Tracks had to have simulcast to compete. If you didnt you couldnt. Then its slots. So while in the end slots wont help much you have to have them now. To catch up to the others. You see even the poly nonesense. Then it will be something else, maybe sports betting. On and on. And tracks will be forced to do it, even if it means their demise. But then dont feel too bad for them, because if they really wanted to do something different and be proud of their sport they would cut takeout, and reduce the taxation that horseplayers face.

[Tom Barrister]

So I am guessing the whole meaning of "kinder and gentler" is lost on some....

Some people need to learn that there's more than one valid opinion. Lately, it seems like every time certain people are criticized, the middle school tickle fight starts.

Maryland racing has sucked for the last ten years or longer. If they don't get slots in the next few years, they'll probably go under. That won't save them in the long run if Stronach keeps them. That's my opinion; others may have different views.

[alysheba88]

And yes I know tracks dont set tax rates but I am talking about being agents for change and being horseplayer friendly.

Bottom line is soon all the tracks will have slots and then they will need something else.

Slots are basically the welfare keeping them afloat. Way too many tracks let some of them go under. There is nothing in the Maryland law that says they have to have horseracing. If the public will not support it then it will die.

[john del riccio]

When slots opened at Del Park several years ago, there was a happy mix between pony players and slots players as far as space and amenities were concerned. As time went by and the slots action overtook race action, space was gobbled up by the slots and more and more the horse players became second class citizens. I don't often go to Charlestown, but the last time I did go, the same thing appears to have taken place. And this is written by a guy who actually lives in these areas; 50 miles and 90 miles respectively from Del Park and CT. In other words, I don't live 3000 miles away. I'm here and have seen what slots have become. As per my first post, I was mistaken re: slots. Let the game (in MD.) stand on it's merits or fade away. I have gathered from reading thousands of posts here that most players are stay at home ADW players, so I'm not sure how the closing of 2 more tracks would effect most, IMHO.

there are 2 sides to this coin, the horseplayers on one side, the horsemen on the other. the purses are insane at PHA for allowances race considering the stock there. this is good for the horsesmen. i won a nw2x allowance race with a filly that wouild have been running for a 24,000 pot a few years ago but this year she won the same race and the purse was 41,000. this is a great thing.

the absolutely horrible thing is that i couldn't find a window to bet inside the track ! the inscessant ringing, cigarette smoke, and maniacal slot players are 95% of the people there. the tellers were buried in the back of the food court ????

better purses should equal better horses, better racing, and fuller fields but it hasn't necessarily translated. DEL has more scratches then a dog with fleas and the quality of horseflesh at PHA isn't worthy of the purse structure.


if MD doesn't get on board (jersey ain't far behind), its going to be a hard sell. defrancis knows the score & thats why he is bailing out.

john

[Tom]

the tellers were buried in the back of the food court ????

john

Did you get fries with that bet? :D
Seriously, the fact that fewer and fewer horse players are showing up at some tracks says a lot. I't won't be long before the requirment to hold races in order to have slots will be gone, then there will no need to carry the horse industry.

[john del riccio]

Did you get fries with that bet? :D
Seriously, the fact that fewer and fewer horse players are showing up at some tracks says a lot. I't won't be long before the requirment to hold races in order to have slots will be gone, then there will no need to carry the horse industry.

tom,

when that happens, there is going to be no economical reason to be a horse owner. the fallout will then be, no product to supply for the gamblers. the breeders will fall aprt. sad but true. these guys don't kno whow good they've had it and its only a matter of time until ^%&! hits the fan.

john

[Kelso]

better purses should equal better horses, better racing, and fuller fields but it hasn't necessarily translated.


John,
Why is this so, do you think? The theory of more and better horses for better purses sounds right. Why isn't it working at PHA and DEL?

Thank you.

[john del riccio]

John,
Why is this so, do you think? The theory of more and better horses for better purses sounds right. Why isn't it working at PHA and DEL?

Thank you.

Kelso,

I wish I knew the answer, I was on the PHA backstretch the other day, it is definitely not a pretty site. It could use alot of work. Makes MTH look like A wonderland...

John

[gIracing]

maybe we need addition by subtraction. maybe we should cut all tracks to just Gulfstream, Belmont, Saratoga, HOllywood Park, Churchill, Del Mar, Oaklawn and Golden Gate.

you get less tracks, but you odn't have to come upw ith magic tricks to make money.... maybe that is what the problem really is. we odn't have enough betting dollar to substain the amount of races we carry. and next year you can throw in 2 more tracks.

[alysheba88]

maybe we need addition by subtraction. maybe we should cut all tracks to just Gulfstream, Belmont, Saratoga, HOllywood Park, Churchill, Del Mar, Oaklawn and Golden Gate.

you get less tracks, but you odn't have to come upw ith magic tricks to make money.... maybe that is what the problem really is. we odn't have enough betting dollar to substain the amount of races we carry. and next year you can throw in 2 more tracks.

Not going to make a list which should stay and go, but there should be less tracks and less race dates

[cj's dad]

[QUOTE=Tom Barrister]
Maryland racing has sucked for the last ten years or longer. QUOTE]

Pimlico is downright depressing IMO !