Zambuto Program On "FIRE"

[Speed Figure]

I have been using this program for about 2 weeks and it is on fire.

I've hit 2 Superfecta's and 3 pick 4's using the program so far. The key to the program is making your own "WEIGTHING FACTORS" i have made 1 for all dirt races and 1 for all turf races.

Using the Pace Analysis program i'm making my own par times. this program will let you see all the winning times for each class level or purse level.

The program had a good day on 12/31 my weigthing factor had Lil Sister Stich on top in the Monrovia so i had a $10 exacta.the program picks were 9/12/10/2 so i put the 9 on top with those 3. the cost of the bet was $30 the $10 exacta came back $978.00.

I am up "BIG TIME" after getting this program. if you want a program at a low price this is the one.:cool:

[andicap]

I'm curious. A lot of programs enable you to handicap using your own "weighting factors."

How do you know how much to weight the various factors without a lot of research and study? Do you go by gut?

[Speed Figure]

I do go by gut. I use the things that i like and just go from there.

You can use the Self-Tuning program to find out which factors are winning the most, save it and use it on up coming races.

[andicap]

Is the "tuning" based on the computer-generated pacelines. That's my main problem with all of these methods.
I don't trust models based on PL selected entirely by computers, there are too many errors (e.g. the computer picks a race with a pace that will be far different today so the horse will not run that race today.)
A computer might show that early and late speed have been winning recently, but can it tell you that the late speed races are winning because the pace of the races have been faster than average or is there a track bias??

[Speed Figure]

The program does not pick pacelines like other programs. it uses different things in getting it's picks. that's why the weigthing factors are so good because you can control what you like or don't like.

I have 2 programs the Zambuto & Equisim. My girl got me Equisim for Christmas.

I deleted Fast Capper from my laptop no need for it now.

[Hosshead]

Speed Figure, Does the Zambuto program have "auto settings" to give you rankings? What about an instruction manual to get it up and running and able to make basic picks? Does it lean toward longshots? (I'm not a big longshot player) I'm a first time SW buyer and would also like to test angles out on a database of past performances and results before I play them. Does it have good customer support? Oh, and can you have M/L odds as part of your "angle" when testing on past races? Hope you don't mind all these questions, but I appreciate your opinion.----Hosshead

[Speed Figure]

Hosshead, what i did 1st is i got the video cd which will show you all things the program can do. you can use the default setting or use your own.

As far as angles go i don't know about that. using the self-tuning program in sprints i have 23 races from santa anita in my database so far the publics win % is 40.91 my win % so far is 57.14 %.

The customer support is great just e-mail joe and he will get back with you.

As far as picks go the program picks both longshots and favorites i have had some big price horses from the big "A", Hollywood , Santa Anita.

Get the video cd and check it out 1st to make sure you like. if you hit F1 the help screen will come up with all the things you need to know.

[andicap]

Speed,
will this program keep an ongoing track bias/post position report for you if you download the free charts??
Any other info that it can keep for you?

I'm more into using software to save time and gather info for me than to make picks.

[Speed Figure]

Andicap,
the program will keep an ongoing track bias/post postiton report.
you go to the results page hit database manager than hit "Track Bias Evaluation Screen" and just input which track you want. but you must download the results and save them to your database 1st.

In maiden claming races at santa anita the public is winning at a 35.71 % public rol is $-0.03 the par finish time is 1:11.17.

[andicap]

Can it tell me where the winners are coming from (how many lengths off the pace?) and which posts are winning at 6f?

[Speed Figure]

Yes it can that's where the pace analysis comes in to play. when you download the results and save them to your database you can use the pace analysis program to see how the horses are winning the races.

The program will show you the avg 1st call the avg 1st call BL the avg 2nd call the avg 2nd call BL. which post is winning the most & you can see all the posts where each horse has started.

You will also have the "par times" for all the levels no need to buy last year's pars, now your par times are up to date every day.

[andicap]

Does it have a date/track surface filter? Like I want to see all 6F fast track races within the past week -- how they are running, early, stalker, late. Honest, etc.

[Speed Figure]

I think it does but you have to input the track you want to see. i don't think you can get that infor for all the tracks at one time.

[Hosshead]

Speed Figure, Has Joe Z. "fixed" the program to accept the TSN ProCap 59.95/mo. files yet ??-------Hosshead

[Speed Figure]

I don't know.i use the $1 bris pp's. i will say that this the program had that big winner on top in the 5th race at santa anita i put him on top with the next 6 horses in a $3 exacta that came back $560 for $1.i should have bet more but i will be more than happy to take what it paid.

Sometimes i don't bet like i should because the 6th/7th & 8th races the winners were all on top and that pick 4 paid over $26,000 bucks but i did'nt play it why i don't know. :(

[nucsub]

Hosshead:
Yes, My programs use brisnet's single file and multi-file format and TSN's single file and Pro Cap files.

I also added the ability to download the full program, revisions only, and fixes only directly from my website.

You can even download the full program and then go through all the help screens. when you're ready to purchase, I would then send a security file.

Joe Zambuto's website (http://www.beatthepublic.com)

[Hosshead]

Thanks for the info Joe, I see you've been busy making it more user friendly. You'll probably be hearing from me, especially since the expense of the files has been brought down by the addition of ProCaps! (if you play alot of tracks)-----Hosshead

[andicap]

I know why you don't bet more.
Deep down, we hard time believing a computer. If you had doped out that longshot through your own arduous work, you would have had more confidence in him. I've been there before. Pulled my punches on great overlays because they were longshots and a computer picked them, not me.
We didn't really believe the computer.

[Tom]

I bought this program a long time ago-same time I bought ESROI. ES came first so I loaded it and started to use it. I guessf rom the sounds of this I better load this one too, and at least have a look-see. I have all those BRIS file anyway, might as well put them to more use.

[andicap]

If it can do what I hope it can do it's worth the money and more. I don't want to spend $100 a month on HDW to track biases on 1 or two tracks, so that I can download charts for free to do this is mind-boggling.

Joe, am I right in thinking that I can keep a consistent track bias and post position study by just downloading the charts, that I DON"T NEED TO DOWNLOAD BRIS FILES EVERY DAY????????

thanks,

[nucsub]

Yes, thats true.

www.beatthepublic.com
www.jzambuto.com
j.zambuto@verizon.net

[midnight]

I'm lost here. Where do you get ProCaps for $70 a month?

[Speed Figure]

What are ProCap files and how are they different from the bris pp's.

[wes]

I'm lost here. Where do you get ProCaps for $70 a month?

http://www.tsnhorse.com/


wes

[BillW]

Originally posted by speed figure
What are ProCap files and how are they different from the bris pp's.

They are the TSN version of the Multicap files. The file specifications are available on the respective sites.

Bill

[Larry Hamilton]

Its 60 a month wes, and you can find it at
http://www.tsnhorse.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=membership_desc

if you are a member, I can list the differences between it and bris if you like..but in my opinion, its so inexpensive, I would find ways to make it work if data is your game!


TSN Advantage Plan
For a flat monthly fee of only $59.95, TSN Advantage Plan members are entitled to unlimited Quick Play PP's, unlimited Insider Picks & Power Plays Selection Sheets, and unlimited ProCAPS software datafiles, and exotic result files. In addition, TSN Advantage Plan members receive "Preferred" membership rates on all other TSN products

[midnight]

Thanks. I never knew that you could get unlimited Procaps files at TSN for $60 a month.

I do know that the TSN comma delimited files differ slightly from their BRIS counterparts in that the TSN ones don't contain some of the power and speed ratings that the BRIS ones do. I'm not sure which are missing in the TSN files.

My next question is this: Is there any difference in the Zambuto program's effectiveness between using the BRIS or the TSN or Procaps files? I also notice that TSN also offers a $60 plan for unlimited use of its PP data files, which I assume are the comma-delimited ones. Since those can be used in a variety of other programs, would it make any difference which was used for the Zambuto program?

Thanks for your help.

[Speed Figure]

Midnight,
i just looked at the TSN pp's and they work great with the program.the only thing i can see that is different is the prime power.i'm going the start using these pp's because i have a new weighting factor that does not use the prime power.

The tsn pp's have no drf speed rating and no prime power.

[BillW]

Originally posted by speed figure


The tsn pp's have no drf speed rating and no prime power.

Speed,

While the TSN $0.50 files don't have the prime power # the Procaps files do and unlike the speed figs, it is the same as the Bris #.

Bill

[Larry Hamilton]

prime number is field #251
drf speed is field #856 thru 865
drf speed variant is fields #866 thru 875

[midnight]

Larry: what you're saying is that if I get the Procaps files, I'll have basically the same info that somebody who uses the Bris files does?

[Larry Hamilton]

not quite...all the names are done differently. FOr instance, one of them might say Baffert, Bob the other might say Baffert Bob or Baffert Bob T. This means you won't be able to match up trainers, jocks, owners without first mapping one way to another. Also all the TSN numbers are different than the BRIS numbers..God only knows why.

YOu gotta want to save the money to do it, I did. The headache is potential huge.

[Larry Hamilton]

what is the potential savings? Well, back when I was "picking", in the summer time, I often spent 600 bucks a month for data and that wasn't all that was available. There are somedays during the summer when it would take 50 dollars to get it all! Fact is, if they had started this 60 bucks a month thing in 96, I would still be in the biz.................nagggh, this is more fun!

[Derek2U]

I had lunch today with a truly weird guy. It was by accident
cause quite honestly I would walk 2 miles to avoid him. but I
started having lunch in our work dining room and suddenly the
2 guys hadda leave & ergo, unkempt Einstein was there. Yikes.
so, because I'm practicing being like CEO material, I pretended
to care about him and so i said ... "U Like Football?" to which
he said NO I hate all sports but I like games of chance. I said ..
I like them too like BJ & all card games etc etc & horses and He
said ... I love racing. Like I'll cut this short but he said this:
"Horseplayers try to predict the winner but its better to predict
something that you know the answer to. Like trying to predict
the DRF speed rating the horse will get." First, I thought he
was insane then he said ... "at least then you will 100% know
if you were close & the margin of error you made." The more
I thought about it the more I liked his reasoning. Any thoughts
on this? Derek

[nucsub]

Well....
If you're a speed handicapper, arent you doing that when you essentially pick the winner (or who you think will win).

But, I do like the idea of correlating what ever your methodolgy is...into an acceptable rating so that you can go back and see as your friend says.. the margin of error maybe over time you can improve the margin such that you can better predict the speed rating which translate into better predicting the winners.

I like the idea....

I think I can take my pace analysis ratings and use them to generate a speed rating.


www.jzambuto.com
www.beatthepublic.com

[andicap]

Originally posted by Derek2U

"Horseplayers try to predict the winner but its better to predict
something that you know the answer to. Like trying to predict
the DRF speed rating the horse will get." First, I thought he
was insane then he said ... "at least then you will 100% know
if you were close & the margin of error you made." The more
I thought about it the more I liked his reasoning. Any thoughts
on this? Derek

This is what the Ragozin sheet people try to do. They look at a horse's form cycle and predict whether the horse will move forward or backward today. They might say, "it will take a '6' to win this race, and this horse is capable of moving to a '5.'"

It's all value based -- if a horse is 10-1, they don't have to feel as certain that the horse will reach the figure today as if the horse was 3-1.

[GR1@HTR]

Originally posted by Derek2U
Like I'll cut this short but he said this:
"Horseplayers try to predict the winner but its better to predict
something that you know the answer to. Like trying to predict
the DRF speed rating the horse will get." First, I thought he
was insane then he said ... "at least then you will 100% know
if you were close & the margin of error you made." The more
I thought about it the more I liked his reasoning. Any thoughts
on this? Derek

Derek,

After looking at horse stuff daily for the last 3-4 years, I have concluded that the above is the best and most complete methodology for me. To assign a Speed Fig type rating of how I think each horse will run today based on pace, trainer, jock, trip, bias, condition, position of the moon, color of saddle cloth and all that. Then let it fly....It basically leaves no stone unturned...and give me a picture of projected beaten lengths each horse would be separated by...It doesn't always come out like it is supposed to but does more so anything else I have toyed with...

Just chug and plug...

[Tom]

If you are going to sum a horse ability with only one number, then you have to use adjusted Beyer numbers. They workkk.
<G>

[JimG]

SpeedFigure or anyone else,

Would appreciate an update on how you are doing with the Zambuto program.

Interesting that the program does not use a paceline to generate data and make picks. That sets it apart from many of the other programs out on the market. I bought it recently to take a look at and it has some good features, although I find Equisim much easier to use.

Would appreciate anybody's thoughts on the Zambuto program and best ways to use. Thanks.

Jim

[hurrikane]

then you have to use adjusted Beyer numbers.


you "HAVE" too. I'm just not good with this 'have' too thing.
Way too fffastt for me.
Besides, no one (even Andy) will tell me the big magic figgin secret of how to adjust the all seeing, all knowing..Beyer number.

[Jaguar]

Hurrikane,

If it is of any interest, Dan Pope puts out a superb correction for the Beyers- inexpensive, also.

(I should add that Jim Cramer's numbers are much better than the Beyers. Beyer nos. have a built in flaw, a "class" rating, which inhibits Andy's nos. from being what they could otherwise be.)

I realize that I am repeating myself with this post, but speed figures are so crucial for all horse players, it's important to have the best available numbers.

All the best,

Jaguar

[hurrikane]

Thanks Jag
I'm sure you know...I use Cramers.

[midnight]

Does Zambuta's program use Trackmaster files? If so, will it use both the PP converted and the Plus converted?

[pilot]

Jaguar, you mentioned earlier in your post about Dan Pope in correcting the beyers numbers. How do we get more info on him, does he have a web site?

Thanks pilot

[KyRacer]

In case anyone's interested, there's a copy of Dan Pope's method of adjusting the Beyer's "The Easy-AB-Speed Method" up for auction on ebay at this link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1113&item=2906224930&rd=1

Auction ends the 19th. Currently $9.77. I'm not the seller or a bidder.

[Zaf]

Originally posted by KyRacer
In case anyone's interested, there's a copy of Dan Pope's method of adjusting the Beyer's "The Easy-AB-Speed Method" up for auction on ebay at this link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1113&item=2906224930&rd=1

Auction ends the 19th. Currently $9.77. I'm not the seller or a bidder.

Has anybody out their tried this method ???

ZAFONIC

[midnight]

I've sent two emails in the past five days, inquiring about purchasing the Zambuto program and no reply yet.

[nucsub]

HI,
Sorry... I keep on sending a reply but it keeps on coming back to me? Seeing this thread, I tried and sent a response again.

Just in case it comes back again:
If you go to www.beatthepublic.com, you can go to the download page and actually download the program. You will be able to go view all the help screens. When you are ready, you can use www.paypal.com for purchasing.

Also, something new...At that same website, there's an Instruction page, I have pretty good instructions (with program screen captures) for some key functions. These are pdf format files, so once you click on a file the adobe ready should launch and you can then review the program instructions.

Note: does the program use the trackmaster racing cards?
someone asked me that a few weeks ago. We tested the converted file (with the *.drf extension) and it works fine.

www.BeatThePublic.com
www.jzambuto.com
j.zambuto@verizon.net

[midnight]

Thanks. I'll use Paypal.

[Zaf]

Originally posted by midnight
Thanks. I'll use Paypal.

Midnight, I just bought the program on Sunday. I am currently reviewing the features, and reading the help files. It looks to have great capabilities. The price is certainly right.

ZAFONIC

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by hurrikane
Thanks Jag
I'm sure you know...I use Cramers.

Can somebody enlighten me on where to obtain Cramer Numbers, and why you like them. Great thread here. I ignored it for awhile but it changed gears nicely. Very interesting comments in here.

[Lefty]

JR, Cramer nos. are exclusive to HDW. They come with prgms like HTR and HSH that use HDW data files.

[122425]

MIDNIGHT

I"VE TRIED TRACKMASTER .DRF FILES AND DOESN'T WORK

[Zaf]

I have been using Joe Zambuto's program for about a month now. I am getting excellent results. I am keeping a database on Hou , FG , and MNR,

In the last 10, 1 Mile Dirt races at FG,

# Races # wins # places # shows ITM %
10 7 2 0 90 %

win horse roi $1.28
place horse roi $1.12
show horse roi $0.50

In the last 15 dirt routes at FG

# Races # wins # places # shows ITM %
15 7 4 2 87%

win horse roi $0.52
IMOplace horse roi $0.67
show horse roi $0.45

Also at MNR over a series of 32 routes , the win roi is 0.33 , the place roi is 0.37. I have never been able to attain results for MNR like this before the program.

Hou win roi is slightly in the negative but is handily beating the takeout, and the place roi is positive 0.14 !!! AT hou 1/2 of the selections are running at least 2nd (27/57).

This data above is derived from taking the top selection from the program with no other handicapping involved. Of course I am fine tuning the handicapping criteria files as my database grows.

I hope things continue along these lines, I know its only a month, but these results so far are very encouraging.

IMO ,For the price this program is excellent value. I am using the Pace Analysis to confirm the picks or possibly find other contenders. The results program keeps a nice database for every track I am following and gives me the ability to fine tune criteria that is winning at that particular track.

I'll post more reports in the future.

ZAFONIC

[JimG]

Zafonic,


Thanks for posting your results with the Zambuto program. Is your ROI before or after you tune the criteria files. If it is after you tuned the races, that would be backfitting by the program since it already knows the results on races it is now handicapping.

How often do you tune? How have you found the criteria files that come with the program to be without tuning?

JimG

[Zaf]

Jim G,

These are the results of handicapped races. They are not back fitted results. I am tuning the files after every 2 racing cards or so. I am doing this frequently because I have been only using the program since the beginning of January, and I have a very small database. These results have been attained over a short period of time and with a very small sample. We will see how it does over the long run. I'm sure this is not a black box and over time those high percentages will not hold. If they do then the program is basically a money printing machine. We all know that will not happen.


The program has many useful features, Results database, Pace Analysis, Post Position Analysis, and Track Profiling. It is an excellent tool for the handicapper. Because of the database capabilities, the program can fine tune what handicapping factors have been most prevalent in winning horses at a particular track. I'm sure there are a lot of features that I have yet to discover. I just wanted to share these results with the group.

Basically I created a criteria file myself using weighting I thought was important and then let the fine tuning program adjust it for me. I never used the files that came with the program. Any file can be tested for performance in the Self Tuning program.


ZAFONIC

[Zaf]

Another quick note:

What I have been doing with the fine tuning program is looking for certain streaks as I posted earlier and ride them till they don't exist anymore. Maybe I got lucky , maybe I jumped on too early, maybe next time it won't work as well. With the 3 tracks I have been following I was able to find much success with routes. I am still learning to use the program. It is certainly a stimulating endeavor.

ZAFONIC

[BIG HIT]

Hi guy's interesting program he say's he has 45 factor you can use.Can anyone tell me those factor's?

[Zaf]

Big Hit,

Most of the data can be found in the Bris/Tsn single delimited files.

Maybe this link will make it clearer.

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2j3vr/Details.htm

or check www.jzambuto.com

ZAFONIC

[BIG HIT]

Appreciate help.Do you think it is more useful than equisim if you ever used E.S.?

[andicap]

I use both. They use the same data and Zambuto's is so inexpensive that it's worth it for me to get the track bias and pp data. I haven't tested the results yet, butI'll get around to it.

Both are excellent programs at a good price.

[Zaf]

I have never used equisim. So I cannot comment on that.

ZAFONIC

[jk3521]

I am interested in the win %, not R.O.I.. Can you give me some idea on the win % at the tracks that have been handicapped ? I am interested in different distance results also. This seems like a very interesting program.

[Zaf]

Originally posted by jk3521
I am interested in the win %, not R.O.I.. Can you give me some idea on the win % at the tracks that have been handicapped ? I am interested in different distance results also. This seems like a very interesting program.

I have been using the program for only a month. My data is from a very limited sample from FG, MNR, HOU. Perhaps others who have a larger database could help.

ZAFONIC

[ratpack]

I know this program uses the BRIS data files but does it use the exotic results files?

[Zaf]

You do not need to buy any result files. The program has a web bot and goes out on the web to get the results (charts) for all tracks you are interested in. (free).

ZAFONIC

[delayjf]

ZAFRONIC / SPEED FIGURE
Can you give a specific example of how you weight your factors, the whole process seems rather vague to me.

NUCSUB
I assume you are incorporating the TSN/BRIS varients into you program. Given all the outstandig reviews Jim Cramer at HDW gets for his pace/speed figures, have you considered using his download files/varients?? Better varients, better results.

[nucsub]

No, I haven't. If you have an old racing card, send it to me and I'll take a look. thanks.

www.beatthepublic.com
www.jzambuto.com
j.zambuto@verizon.net

[Derek2U]

Does anyone know where I can get Daily Track Variants?
I assume there are choices here. Thanks, Derek

[Zaf]

Originally posted by delayjf
ZAFRONIC / SPEED FIGURE
Can you give a specific example of how you weight your factors, the whole process seems rather vague to me.


There is a self tuning module which adjusts the weighting factors in favor of what has been winning in the past. The program does it for you. You can start with any criteria you want. If it is not doing well the program will adjust it. I think it is basically profiling the track according to past results. Thats how I do it. Perhaps there are better ways to do it. I am only a novice presently.

ZAFONIC

[Tom]

Originally posted by Derek2U
Does anyone know where I can get Daily Track Variants?
I assume there are choices here. Thanks, Derek

If you are now playing California, try this link:

http://www.todaysracingdigest.com/freearea/recentdgst.htm

On one of the last pages of each daily issue is a list of track variants for all Calif. tracks

Example.....race variants and competitive level data
SANTA ANITA
Race# 1 2 3 4 5 6
DATE TV S| TV S| TV S| TV S| TV S | TV S|
01/26 -2, 4| -2, 5|+ 11,3| -2, 2| + 2, 1| + 11,4|
01/25 0, 4| + 13,7| 0, 5| 0, 8| 0, 6| + 8, 2|
01/24 0, 5| + 13,2| + 2,3| + 2,4| 0, 5| + 2, 5|
01/23 0, 6| 0, 2| 0, 2| 0, 3| + 4, 8| + 5, 3|

I know of several speed figure places, but not really any that just sell variants. Trackmaster has a daily variant in there charts.
If you are interested in NYRA, I'll give you a copy of my variants - based on Beyer numbers.

[analyzer]

Please advise where you can get this program. Thanks

[Zaf]

Originally posted by analyzer
Please advise where you can get this program. Thanks

http://www.beatthepublic.com/

ZAFONIC

[andicap]

anyone know what joe is charging for the program if you already own it?

[kitts]

andicap

I own it and I'm pretty sure it was $149.95. It is not "on fire" for me and has, IMHO, a serious learning curve. It appears to work better if the user creates "profiles" ("cri" files)but I have dirt sprints and routes as well as turf sprints and routes and all of them again for Maidens which means I need to manually apply the appropriate profile (of the 8 profiles I use) to each race. It does come with default cri files, but they need to be applied manually. And all the cri file settings should be updated as study and research indicates. I see that it works well for some, though.

[andicap]

Kitts, I meant JUST the upgrade. I bought the software a few months ago (not the custom builder tho) because of its ability to track bias, post position info, etc. One day I'll get to the other stuff.

There's an upgrade out now and I'm wondering what it costs.

[JimG]

I'm sure Joe will pipe in and say for sure, but I think it's 29.95 for the upgrade. I only bought the program a couple of months ago...not sure I will spring for the upgrade. I agree with Kitts' comments regarding the learning curve.


Jim

[Speed Figure]

The program is very easy to use. all you have to do is make your own weighting factors and save them. it is so simple, I'm going to get the new upgrade & the custom builder than i'll have it all.

Making or own weighting factors is key to the program for me. I have never used the ones that came with the program. If you look at all the things the program comes with it can look hard but, i'm telling all of you this program is super easy to use!:D

[Speed Figure]

I think it's time for Joe and some others to get a 1-800 number so that customers that need help with the program can call. using e-mail is one thing but, talking over the phone is the best thing.

If you need help with HSH you can call dave. if you need help with the Capper you can call gordan. I have got over 30 e-mails asking about joe's program. I have been helping alot of guys with the program.

[Kappa]

Speed Figure said

I think it's time for Joe and some others to get a 1-800 number so that customers that need help with the program can call


I believe that Joe has a full time job. He cannot be making a living selling software for the price he is, and not making anything on the datafiles either.

[Zaf]

Originally posted by Kappa
I believe that Joe has a full time job. He cannot be making a living selling software for the price he is, and not making anything on the datafiles either.


I agree, the software is very inexpensive, a wonderful value. The Pace Analysis program alone is worth the price he is asking.

ZAFONIC