Free Speech My A$$

[PaceAdvantage]

I love it how all those defending the Iranian President's speech at Columbia are invoking this grand notion of "Free Speech" and how isn't it wonderful that our American principles are shining through when we let someone like this speak at an institution like Columbia University.

Since we're all so fond of posting YouTube videos lately, I believe my point would best be made with a series of three videos, and the degrees of "Free Speech" being allowed in each:

yz-mx9LMj04

cfnn7wTgoE8

Fv9xa-VxchM

Yeah, this country sure has its priorities in order when it comes to free speech. Columbia should be proud.

[Bubba X]

Personally I'm sorry a bit of pie didn't strike Coulter, that is one ugly-assed woman. But it should never get physical.

What is your point, aside from your obvious dislike of the Iranian President and your love of far-right politics?

It's pretty hypocritical to live in the U.S. and say that anyone, whatever their views, should not be heard.

Funny that people are tricked by their own fears and Fox News into hating another country, their President and an entire race. All because politics make it the thing to do.

When FoxNews says you cannot respect Iran because they support Hezbollah, they leave out the fact that Hezbollah is a recognized party in the U.S. supported democracy of Lebanon.

Many people in the U.S. hate Iran because FoxNews and Bush tell you to do so. They also leave out the fact that the US-Iraq bumble fuck could have been stopped fairly early because Iran wanted it stopped.

When the Iranians saw the U.S. get to Baghdad in three weeks by slicing up the Iraqi army it took Iran 3 years to fight to a stalemate, the Iranians wanted it over. The U.S. went the other direction with The Bush Doctrine, which is to advance democracy (well, at least in oil-rich nations)

Sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't. You can ask the Lebanese people how it's working for them.

I'm not saying Ahmadinejad is a good person.

I'm not saying we were wrong to go into Iraq. Ot to be there still.

I'm not saying Hezbollah is a bunch of good guys.

I am saying there is more than one way to view the world.

[Snag]

WOW. Where to start Bubba?

You make sweeping statements that can't be backed up and then throw disclaimers at the end of a post to support your positions. There are those on this board that "live" for your kind.

[Bubba X]

Snag,
Draw ypur own conclusions, I guess is what I'd say.

Why not let the guy speak? This is America and what better place is there for this guy to be seen for what he is, whatever that may be. Coulter is revered by some, reviled by others. Personally, I like hearing all points of view, hers included. Like other conservatives as well as liberals, she does have some interesting points she makes and I do what I can to take those away and filter out the partisan junk.

I watch a bit of Fox as well as a bit of CNN and I find it pretty amazing how slanted each is in its own way. I'm no more a fan of CNN than I am of Fox, although Amanpour does some nice work of the kind I've not seen on Fox. CNN is lucky to have her.

Personally, I think the war could have been a short one but the path there went through Tehran and Damascus and the US wasn't willing to go there. So be it. I can probably be slotted as someone who opposes the war but supports our troops while they are there. I don't consider the two irreconcilable.

It does seem to me that the best result end-game to the war for the US now includes 1. No genocide, 2. No exporting terrorism, 3. No expansion into regional conflict. A lot of people believe we could have achieved this with Iran's help early into the conflict. Who knows?

It will be interesting to see Bush and Ahmadinejad at the UN.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Your swearing put you on my ignore list.

[Tom]

Columbia decided that they would rather listen to the words of one who would destroy us (AmedI'manutjob) than the words of those who would lay down thier lives for are freedom and safey - ROTC.

Columbia is a national disgrace.

[JustRalph]

PA makes salient points.........and Bubba tries to defend the fact that Mahmoot Imadinnerjacket is welcome but Americans are not............then takes a crack at Fox News and PA's "Love of right wing politics"

Amazing what passes for discourse nowadays..........Bubba, you cannot argue with the point PA is making in the thread, so you go after him personally and try to give PA some lumps by tying him and his thread into some kind of Fox News rant and go off on a tangent about how "everybody should be heard" when it comes to President Tom of Iran. Answer me this;

When was the last time a State Department recognized sponsor of Terrorist Activity was allowed to speak at a college or anywhere else in the United States? The only time this happens is when a trip to the U.N. is involved. This visa entry thing with a 25 mile limit of travel needs to be changed.

This guy should have been arrested while he was here and an announcement of the closing of the U.N. building would have been a nice touch on the heels of the arrest. It is a damn joke that we put up with this stuff. The U.N. needs to get the hell out of our country and we need to get the hell out of the U.N. Then we won't have these terroristic assholes thinking they can travel all around New York whenever they come to the U.N. Not to mention 500 other reasons we need to get out of the U.N.

[PaceAdvantage]

What is your point, aside from your obvious dislike of the Iranian President and your love of far-right politics?

It's pretty hypocritical to live in the U.S. and say that anyone, whatever their views, should not be heard.I'm very glad you introduced the term HYPOCRISY into this thread.

But first off, where did I state that the Iranian President should not be allowed to speak? This isn't about my opinion of the issue, and I don't believe I've offered any opinion on the matter thus far.

This thread is about the far-left's HYPOCRISY in ACTION. The far-left embraces the Iranian President by allowing him HIS free speech (no matter how distasteful some may find his brand of speech), but they DON'T extend the SAME FREEDOMS to a group such as that pictured in the second video (MinuteMenProject), a group that was ALSO invited to speak at Columbia.

Don't you find it a tad hypocritical (and disgusting) that those factions at Columbia would remain respectful enough to the President of Iran to allow him to speak to completion, yet they couldn't offer the same courtesy to an AMERICAN group of speakers (MinuteManProject).

You didn't see anyone opposed to Ahmadinejad get up to disrupt his speech. You didn't see any "Fox News" or "Bush" supporters stand up and unfurl a banner in front of him to disrupt his speech. You did see the far-left do this at the MinuteManProject speech, and you saw them hurl pies at Coulter.

Where is this great FREE SPEECH I am reading about here in America? Free for guys like Ahmadinejad, but not American citizens wishing to discuss border security?

And you Bubba, you use this thread not to discuss free speech, but to advance more of your anti-Iraq, anti-Bush, anti-FoxNews agenda?

That's not what this thread is about. It's about the far-left hiding behind the banner of Free Speech when it comes to Ahmadinejad, but not granting those same great freedoms to other groups which appear at college campuses that the left does not agree with.

Try addressing the actual point next time.

And for the record, I do not love far-right politics. I simply hate far-left politics. Don't make the mistake of equating the two.

[46zilzal]

EVERYONE should have the podium and blast away about any off the wall comments they want. If you don't like it, leave.

I think both Ann Coulter and this clown have nothing I want to hear, but they are free to spew it all they want.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think both Ann Coulter and this clown have nothing I want to hear, but they are free to spew it all they want.The point is, they are not free to spew, as far as the far-left is concerned. They will be shouted down, disrupted and assaulted, BUT if they hate America and Bush, they will be embraced and allowed to talk as long as they'd like.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

[46zilzal]

I have had to suffer through all manner of crap speech, often in class, but always have applauded the fact that any crazy can drone on to their heart's content.

Going to my train every night after finishing school in San Francisco, I would often stop to listen to a fellow who claimed to be the world's greatest cement artist. He would stand on Market Street for hours rambling on about it and every so often interject some religious philosophy. I was taken by his stamina.

Flip side of the coin was a professor who was supposed to talk about orthopedics and degenerated into religion. I stood up to walk out and was questioned as to why. My response was succinct: "When you return to topic so will I."

After a few minutes, I was joined by over half the class.

[Tom]

Read the first ammendment.

It is not relevant here because Congress was not involved in making any laws.
AmedI'manutjob should not have been granted access to our streets - only the UN.Free speech doens't obligate anyone to give away a free podium for it.

Our postion should have been simple and coinsistent - you are not welcome here for any reasons. Go to the UN and nowhere else.

The diff between him and Ann Coulter is Ann is a citizen,not a leader of a terroist nation, but Columbia was not obligated to allow her to speak either.

Yesterday's crap said far more about Columbia, Fox, and CNN than it did about Crazy Tom - I expected nothing but lies from Tom. I expected far more from CNN and FOX. This was not news. It was sensatioanalism.

[Tom]

.....My response was succinct: "When you return to topic so will I."



Can I quote you on this....often? :lol:

[toetoe]

What happened to judging a case on its merits ?

Bubby says some are tricked into prejudging Ayatollah Cumsteini, or whatever the guy's name is. Where does that get us ? Shall I now respond that all the Al Franken palpators have prejudged Coulter, Limbaugh and all the other bad people ? So there. Harumph !

Someone started a thread with a title something like "For You, Tom and Lefty." The story was seen mainly as a way to attack fellow PA'ers personally, a priori. Now, I can't keep track of whether Lefty's a righty, hcap is an old SDS guy, Tiny is really Andre the Giant, Gay Brewer is really straight. I don't CARE. Make your argument, I'll make mine, and let's shoot each other's ARGUMENT down.

[46zilzal]

Shall I now respond that all the Al Franken palpators have prejudged Coulter, Limbaugh and all the other bad people
I was under the impression that to palpate means to press upon something. Am I missing something here?

[spilparc]

It's amazing how little you worry about this trivia when you don't watch the news or read the papers.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't worry about it....I do enjoy the discourse though....

[spilparc]

I don't worry about it....I do enjoy the discourse though....

Sorry if you thought I was implying you did. I was referring to myself--I quit reading the papers a long time ago and haven't watched any television in months.

[Snag]

EVERYONE should have the podium and blast away about any off the wall comments they want. If you don't like it, leave.


I agree with you 46 on that point. However, in the clips PA posted, two of the speakers were NOT allowed to have the podium. They were run off the stage that they were invited on by left wing nuts that do not allow anyone to have a say except themselves. That was PA's point.

You, Light, Sec and a couple of others here rant about free speech. Where was your rant when Ann Coulter and the MinuteMenProject were not allowed to speak?

[Tom]

EVERYONE should have the podium and blast away about any off the wall comments they want. If you don't like it, leave.

I think both Ann Coulter and this clown have nothing I want to hear, but they are free to spew it all they want.

Depends on whose podium it is. No one is entitled to a venue to speak.

[wonatthewire1]

It's pretty hypocritical to live in the U.S. and say that anyone, whatever their views, should not be heard....

I am saying there is more than one way to view the world.

Nice counterpoint and indeed, since I myself and millions of other Americans did not see or hear the Iranian president - it doesn't make that much of a difference what the dude is saying...

Have to agree with your astute assessment of the situation in the Middle East as well. Was Iraq simply "done" when we sliced and diced them or still a force to be reckoned with? Either way, any country that size who goes up against us is not going to come out the other side smelling that sweetly...and the Iranians understand that. Their rhetoric is a defensive tactic and we need a reminder that Ahmadinejad is not that powerful in his own country.

But those kinds of reminders don't put eyes in front of a TV screen or sell other media - having a target is the goal.

It is also interesting to see how French President Nicolas Sarkozy has been turning up the rhetoric as well on the international front - though most of the people I deal with in France seemed to know it was coming but as we often feel here in the US - not much to choose from in the presidential election (lesser of 2 evils approach to voting)

Nice balanced post, thanks

[wonatthewire1]

I'm very glad you introduced the term HYPOCRISY into this thread.

This thread is about the far-left's HYPOCRISY in ACTION. The far-left embraces the Iranian President by allowing him HIS free speech (no matter how distasteful some may find his brand of speech), but they DON'T extend the SAME FREEDOMS to a group such as that pictured in the second video (MinuteMenProject), a group that was ALSO invited to speak at Columbia.

Don't you find it a tad hypocritical (and disgusting) that those factions at Columbia would remain respectful enough to the President of Iran to allow him to speak to completion, yet they couldn't offer the same courtesy to an AMERICAN group of speakers (MinuteManProject).




Man, that Lefty President of Columbia (my alma mater for grad school!), certainly didn't have much to say negative about the visit, did he?

Maybe all the Bush supporters were at work today or playing Philly Park instead of even knowing that the poorly suited (so Tom says) dude was in town...

;)

[Tom]

CIA missed two perfect opportunities today. Sad.

[Maji]

CIA missed two perfect opportunities today. Sad.

opportunities to do what?:confused:

[bigmack]

opportunities to do what?:confused:
Send in hopped-up primates.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/shooting_monkey.gif


Funny, those that are quick to wave the freedom of speech flag with this guy haven't quite grasped the thread concept concerning the dichotomy to express ones speech as dictated by the student body of Columbia among the invited guests.

[PaceAdvantage]

Man, that Lefty President of Columbia (my alma mater for grad school!), certainly didn't have much to say negative about the visit, did he?Once again, the point is missed. The President of Columbia may have had unflattering words in his introduction, but there was no RUSHING of the stage (probably couldn't be done anyway with all the law enforcement in place), no banners unfurled, NO SHOUTING DOWN, no nothing.

They sat peacefully and let the madman have his say, as if he deserved the forum. The Minutemen? I believe they got in maybe one or two words before their stage was rushed and their forum was closed.

Is the point that hard to comprehend here? I don't get where all this deflection is coming from. You decide to post about Iraq and the French President when they have NOTHING to do with this thread whatsoever? What's the deal with that? Address the point.

Or perhaps addressing the point is a problem for some. They know they can't argue against the obvious, so they deflect with Iraq and Sarkozy.

[toetoe]

zilz,

Sorry that I overstepped the definition. I was thinking of the word in the sense of palpating a mare ... you know, getting all up in the patient's bidniz, with lots of very intimate massaging, with the implication of much loveydoveyness and dotage ... or is it scrotage ? :confused: :eek:

[boxcar]

[QUOTE=Bubba X]Personally I'm sorry a bit of pie didn't strike Coulter, that is one ugly-assed woman. But it should never get physical.

What is your point, aside from your obvious dislike of the Iranian President and your love of far-right politics?

It's pretty hypocritical to live in the U.S. and say that anyone, whatever their views, should not be heard. (emphasis mine)

Pray tell, Bub Bub, does this hypocrisy extend to Columbia as well when it prohibits Military recruiters, ROTC and the Minutemen, as examples, from telling their side of the story?

Boxcar