Question about betting in Arizona

[csmith]

My daughter lives in Phoenix. I live in Florida and have several betting accounts.
I visit my daughter in Phoenix about every 3 months. My next trip is going to be in October. My question is, will I be breaking the law while visiting her in Phoenix if I make bets online from her house ???

[prospector]

no, you don't live there..

if she bets, she breaks the law....

[csmith]

no, you don't live there..

if she bets, she breaks the law....

Thanks prospector..Ya know that brings up another interesting scenario..What if my daughter ask me to make a bet for HER while I am there.. Is that Illegal ?? She is not betting, I am doing the betting..To take it another step further. What if all the people in her neighborhood ask me to make bets for them ?? I am not bookmaking because I am not booking their bets, I am only making a transaction..Maybe this will open a entire new business venture for me ?? :lol: Could in possibly a loophole in the law ??

[prospector]

Thanks prospector..Ya know that brings up another interesting scenario..What if my daughter ask me to make a bet for HER while I am there.. Is that Illegal ?? She is not betting, I am doing the betting..To take it another step further. What if all the people in her neighborhood ask me to make bets for them ?? I am not bookmaking because I am not booking their bets, I am only making a transaction..Maybe this will open a entire new business venture for me ?? :lol: Could in possibly a loophole in the law ??
transaction = bookmaking
new business venture could be making license plates...
really though, who's gonna monitor this? just crap to get adw's to pull out...new business could be buying an arizona list from adw's and getting paid for referrals for overseas acts like bodog and such...if i still lived in arizona..no way i'd stop betting..

[cj's dad]

How ' bout this. Send her a letter (no e-mail; too easy for the FBI to intercept)
and have her friends/nieghbors make deposits in her bank account. then she xfers said monies to your Fla. Bank account which you then xfer to your ADW account and submit wagers for them using your ADW account. If they win, you can then send out a money order in the amount owed to your daughter. Do not however put a name on any money order, nor a return address on any correspondence. Your daughter can then parcel out the winnings.

Just a thought:D

[csmith]

How ' bout this. Send her a letter (no e-mail; too easy for the FBI to intercept)
and have her friends/nieghbors make deposits in her bank account. then she xfers said monies to your Fla. Bank account which you then xfer to your ADW account and submit wagers for them using your ADW account. If they win, you can then send out a money order in the amount owed to your daughter. Do not however put a name on any money order, nor a return address on any correspondence. Your daughter can then parcel out the winnings.

Just a thought:D

that sounds good to me..Sounds like being a stockbroker to me. Isn't that exactly what they do.The possibilities are endless ;)

[highnote]

Given that Arizona has the University of Arizona Racetrack program, you'd think Arizona would have a liberal slant toward account wagering and allow Arizonans to bet online.

http://ag.arizona.edu/rtip/symposium/index.html

But given Arizona's recent stance and Thistledown's stance, maybe there is something bigger at work here.

I'm all for seeing horsemen get the benefits they deserve, but I don't see how blocking Arizona residents from betting online and shutting out rebate shops helps horsemen.

Would anyone care to shed some light on this?

[Froggy]

csmith,

According to the new law, anyone placing a bet on a horse or dog race in the state of Arizonia that is not done at a designated facility(owned or licensed by the track), has committed a felony.

Froggy

[csmith]

Hi Froggy

There seems to be a difference of opinions as far as the legalities of me betting from my daughters house when I visit her in Phoenix..Some say it is ok since I am not a resident of Arizona. I guess I need to find out for sure. I don't want to be the first one going to prison for making a BIG $2.00 show bet :confused:

[rrbauer]

Hi Froggy

There seems to be a difference of opinions as far as the legalities of me betting from my daughters house when I visit her in Phoenix..Some say it is ok since I am not a resident of Arizona. I guess I need to find out for sure. I don't want to be the first one going to prison for making a BIG $2.00 show bet :confused:

Read the legislation. It's pretty clear. Bet on a horse (or dog) and go to jail.

[csmith]

Read the legislation. It's pretty clear. Bet on a horse (or dog) and go to jail.


Ok, but let me pose this question. I live in Florida. I will be in Phoenix Oct. 11 to the 25th. While I am there I will be accessing my computer back in Florida using the software gotomypc. I will actually be betting from my home computer in Florida but I will be physically in Phoenix.. What does the law say about that ?? Does anyone have any ideas about that ?? Thanks for any info

[GMB@BP]

no, you don't live there..

if she bets, she breaks the law....

I think your wrong

[GMB@BP]

Ok, but let me pose this question. I live in Florida. I will be in Phoenix Oct. 11 to the 25th. While I am there I will be accessing my computer back in Florida using the software gotomypc. I will actually be betting from my home computer in Florida but I will be physically in Phoenix.. What does the law say about that ?? Does anyone have any ideas about that ?? Thanks for any info

You would still be breaking the law, would the catch a situation like that, unlikely.

[garyoz]

I'm all for seeing horsemen get the benefits they deserve

That's a question that I often have, what do they deserve? If it were up to them they would be racing for $50k purses in $5k maiden claimers. I'm all for big purses, but it seems to me that if they choose this line of work, with its many pluses and minuses, then they should know what they are getting into. No one is forcing them to race at TDN or TUP.

[highnote]

That's a question that I often have, what do they deserve? If it were up to them they would be racing for $50k purses in $5k maiden claimers. I'm all for big purses, but it seems to me that if they choose this line of work, with its many pluses and minuses, then they should know what they are getting into. No one is forcing them to race at TDN or TUP.


That's right. The marketplace ultimately will decide what works and what doesn't.

[rrbauer]

Ok, but let me pose this question. I live in Florida. I will be in Phoenix Oct. 11 to the 25th. While I am there I will be accessing my computer back in Florida using the software gotomypc. I will actually be betting from my home computer in Florida but I will be physically in Phoenix.. What does the law say about that ?? Does anyone have any ideas about that ?? Thanks for any info

If you run a red light and nobody is watching do you get a ticket?

Did you break the law?

Same deal. But the law is clear. If you are in Arizona and you place a bet and are not at a "permitted" betting location you are breaking the law. Getting caught is another issue.

[GMB@BP]

I just read the full bill, its very specific that it does not matter where you come from, a bet made in arizona is a violation.

[whipsaw]

i'm an arizona resident and a sometimes lurker here.

the way i read the law is it's illegal to make a "parimutuel" wager from within the state, regardless of your legal residence, unless it's at a licensed facility.

that being said, most offshore facilities are not "parimutuel" concerns.

i'm no lawyer but it seems to be a loophole.

[GMB@BP]

i'm an arizona resident and a sometimes lurker here.

the way i read the law is it's illegal to make a "parimutuel" wager from within the state, regardless of your legal residence, unless it's at a licensed facility.

that being said, most offshore facilities are not "parimutuel" concerns.

i'm no lawyer but it seems to be a loophole.

in the bill there is the word "or bet" that seemed to be outside of the pari mutual language...........I probably need to consult someone professionally.

[whipsaw]

you're right concerning the wording. like i said i'm no lawyer.

this all begs the bigger question: what resources does az have to enforce the law.

[ezrabrooks]

i'm an arizona resident and a sometimes lurker here.

the way i read the law is it's illegal to make a "parimutuel" wager from within the state, regardless of your legal residence, unless it's at a licensed facility.

that being said, most offshore facilities are not "parimutuel" concerns.

i'm no lawyer but it seems to be a loophole.

"non-parimutual"? So they say..but, I think we have beat that topic to death, and came to the conclusion that they (offshore books) all have the ability to pass some part of their handle back into the track pools..

Ez

[whipsaw]

again like i say i'm a sometime lurker. i haven't seen the thread where this topic has been beat to death.

having the ability to lay off is not the same as laying off.

assuming (perhaps erroneously) the term pari-mutuel applies in this law, would az have the resources to not only track my bet but also determine if the offshore entitiy has comingled in that particular pool?

what i'm implying is this is a guard dog with no teeth.

as an arizona resident, i'm as upset with this as anyone. but i doubt it will be shot down, at least not for quite some time.

in the meantime, i'm just trying to find a work around.

[GMB@BP]

I think we have beat that topic to death

Ez


I would like to beat it some more, and I think talking about offshores and this law just came up today, I am for one very interested in this topic as it dramatically affects me.

[whipsaw]

me too gmb@bp. i'm going offshore.

the arizona legislature is mostly made up of self-proclaimed conservatives. you know, the ones that are so adament about keeping the government out of private lives.

screw 'em.

[ezrabrooks]

I would like to beat it some more, and I think talking about offshores and this law just came up today, I am for one very interested in this topic as it dramatically affects me.

I don't think offshore is the answer for the Az residents. You still have a legality question, and getting money back and forth is a problem.

You can kick and scream, boycott and procott (heck, there have both of them in Az the last couple of months), but bottom line you are at the mercy of your legislatures and special interests, all of whom have more agendas than you can shake a stick.

Ez

[whipsaw]

i'm spending a lot of time mlling over the possibilities, ezra. biding my time. i'd like to see a boycott gain some real momentum but i'm skeptical.

here's the questions: do we care about a law we know to be unjust (especially when the possibility of getting caught is close to nil)?

wouldn't tossing an old man in prison for betting a couple dollars on a horse race be great public relations?

should i give up a large part of my livelyhood because some yahoo in phoenix says so?

what are the alternatives other than just laying down for them?

risk/reward...isn't that what gambling's all about?

then again, the internet being what it is, maybe i've already said too much.

[whipsaw]

i say i'm spending a lot of time mulling over the alternatives.

in the last week i come up with:

give up handicapping.

have an out-of-state friend or relative open an account (which in no way bypasses the illegality unless i rely on him/her to also place bets, which is asking a lot) and hope said friend or relative is really, i mean really, a friend.

hope the law is overturned. i doubt it'll happen in my lifetime so i'd be back to option #1.

go offshore. getting money is not a particular problem. i've had accounts in the past and getting it back has always worked well too.

anybody have ony others?

if you don't live in arizona this may not seem like a big deal but, believe me...you're very likely next.

i'm truly interested in your thoughts.

[ezrabrooks]

I think you will find that with the new federal statutes, off shore is really not an option. Once Az made the offense of account wagering a felony, the risk just become too great. You are now in the same boat with other players in States that don't allow account wagering.

Ez

[highnote]

These are the times that try betting men's souls.

[whipsaw]

don't federal statutes, compliments of mitch mcconnell of kentucky, exempt thoroughbred racing?

what i'm trying to understand is exactly what the risks are.

[GMB@BP]

don't federal statutes, compliments of mitch mcconnell of kentucky, exempt thoroughbred racing?

what i'm trying to understand is exactly what the risks are.

I think the federal statute may be attacked next and thats where adw's should have a MAJOR concern.

[whipsaw]

hi gmb@bp.

i still don't see the state having the resources to enforce this law. the feds maybe, but a state as backward as arizona, not at all.

getting the money offshore is not difficult. as far as getting it back, i've never had problems in the past and don't expect any now.

my plan is to sit back and watch for a couple months. if nothing untoward happens i'll consider myself back in business.

in the meantime, i doubt it's wise to plaster my intentions around the internet.

best of luck to you and to anyone else caught up in the hassle.

[GMB@BP]

hi gmb@bp.

i still don't see the state having the resources to enforce this law. the feds maybe, but a state as backward as arizona, not at all.

getting the money offshore is not difficult. as far as getting it back, i've never had problems in the past and don't expect any now.

my plan is to sit back and watch for a couple months. if nothing untoward happens i'll consider myself back in business.

in the meantime, i doubt it's wise to plaster my intentions around the internet.

best of luck to you and to anyone else caught up in the hassle.

I will probably just quit, there is a pretty good dice game in the back of our run down complex after school gets out, probably can scratch out a profit there, and there is no take as well so its a better bet then horse racing.

[highnote]

You can open an account at Hedgestreet.com and bet on the price of various commodities. You can bet the price will go up or down. Same as a betting exchange.

You can open a futures account with a lot of different online brokers and bet on the price of various commodities.

I plan on betting on wheat prices soon. They're at an all-time high. I figure there will be a pull back, so I'm going to short wheat.

You can bet on foreign currency prices on the FOREX -- no commissions!

Racing is fun, but it's hardly the only positive expectation game in town.

Or should I say hardly the only positive expectation game in town that you can bet online.

It's kind of like that quote by Harry Caray -- "Prawns... everybody knows they're shrimp."

Well, same thing with the speculating in the futures market... everybody knows it's gambling.

[whipsaw]

i've been a trader for thirty years. swetyejohn.

i also enjoy racing. it's a different deal. i don't wanna quit.

so...any opinions on the actual, real, risks involved in going offshore?

what kind of monitoring can realistically be expected?

thanks.

[highnote]

so...any opinions on the actual, real, risks involved in going offshore?

There's always the risk that you won't get your money back from an unscrupulous or insolvent operator. But that can happen if you stay onshore, too.

So far, I've been stiffed by two British companies -- one was an online bookmaker that is now out of business and the other is IBETX.com. I don't know if ibetx.com is still in business. I just tried connecting to their site, but got a "not found" message. Fortunately, I only kept small amounts with both of them.

what kind of monitoring can realistically be expected?

If you mean monitoring by state or federal officials of your offshore betting activities, I have no idea.

I would think that if you keep a low profile no one really cares. How many online gamblers have actually been prosecuted in this country?

I think regulators are more interested in the operators of the games than they are in the bettors.

That said, I take my father's advice -- "Keep your nose clean." For me, I sleep better knowing I have nothing to hide. This way I can bitch all I want about how stupid the laws are and not have to worry that some regulator is going to go snooping around trying to find dirt on me. :D

Besides, the thought of going short wheat is almost as exciting as betting lone speed. Not quite, but it's close. :ThmbUp:

[whipsaw]

thanks, swetyejohn.

that's the kinda thing i was looking for. it seems we think along the same lines, except that i don't wanna give up racing and i won't lay down for them (unless i have to :mad: ).

sorry about your experiences getting money back from offshore. i've closed three accounts over the last seven or eight years with no problems at all. still best not to keep ones life saving there. ;)

i'll keep the board apprised of my experiences, positive or negative.

one word, if i may, concerning trading markets: "stops".

don't leave home without 'em.