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If I purchase a software program from a source, am I entitled to know the rules that the select the the horses? I recently purchase the Superstars Of Handicapping from PRM. When I enquired to the programmer (Len) how he got the contenders, he said that he was going to sell the paper and pencil method and wouldn't give me the rules to his selection method. Is this common practice or what?
Jeep
Speed Figure
09-15-2007, 10:27 PM
Yes, when you deal with RPM!
ryesteve
09-15-2007, 10:34 PM
I don't think it's common at all for software developers to divulge proprietary algorithms within their software, regardless of whether or not we're talking about RPM
Lefty
09-16-2007, 11:58 AM
I agree with Ryesteve, you bght the software not the secret behind it. That said, Wolson, in his Poweronline software, divulges the rules behind every method used. So, it's the developer's call, i'd say.
I agree with Ryesteve, you bght the software not the secret behind it. That said, Wolson, in his Poweronline software, divulges the rules behind every method used. So, it's the developer's call, i'd say.
So does Tom Console [RPM ]
Jeep has a good point. As I understand it Superstars has 10 paper methods Most paper methods RPM will glady sell to you. O.K. you take a trip to the casino or to the track You don't have a laptop. It would help if you had the rules for the methods, Then you can try paper handicapping the methods that are in the software.
WHY!!! Would Len Cz put his name to a method for software but refuse to give a buyer of the software the paper rules.If the rules are coming out of the DRF past performances it can be understood or Len Cz has not a clue what it is about.
Remember Guys, when you buy a softwae it is not $29,00.[ paper method ] It is in the Hundreds. I feel Jeep has a right to the paper rules
:) :) :)
I don't think so.
When you buy software, you agree to terms, which seem to be you get only the prgram, no the formulae.
I bought Pandy's Diamond Harness, but I did not get the formulae for the ratings. Not a problem. I never expected them.
My contention is: If I buy a software program and I play it for a month or so and then go visit my sister in NJ and we go to The Meadowlands, without my computer I can't play the method. It just seems to me that if I shell out hundreds for a method of play, I should be able to play it away from my computer. Just my opinion.
NoDayJob
09-16-2007, 06:24 PM
Unless the programmer agrees to open his source code, he's not obligated to give you anything other than the working program.
K9Pup
09-16-2007, 07:28 PM
My contention is: If I buy a software program and I play it for a month or so and then go visit my sister in NJ and we go to The Meadowlands, without my computer I can't play the method. It just seems to me that if I shell out hundreds for a method of play, I should be able to play it away from my computer. Just my opinion.
No way. You aren't buying the method, you are buying the software. The intellectual rights behinds the software are worth way more than the software itself. I can usually protect the software so you can only run it on your computer. But if I give you a piece of paper describing in detail what it does, that is impossible to protect. Unless I use disappearing ink.
Barremill
09-17-2007, 06:18 AM
What if the software can't pick it's NOSE? ok, ok, then you use it as a Paperweight and you don't CARE what's in the Source code!
BarreMill
Telemicus
10-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Life's too short. You buy the software so you don't have to waste time with the pen and paper method.
In the Superstars software there is a system called DOT. It picks a horse in almost every race, I was curious so I bought the paper and pencil method. The software and paper and pencil are no way close. The main rule for the paper and pencil method is no mdn, finish within 2 1/4 lks last within 20 days and no winners of either of the last 2. The software picks maidens, repeat winners, finishes over 2 1/4 lks, etc. Maybe that's why they don't give the paper and pencil rules with the software, they don't match. But, it seems like most who answered this, thinks that's all right.
Jeep
Vigors
10-02-2007, 02:34 PM
it's alright. That seem's like the classic "Bait and Switch" routine.
Why not just ask which shell the pea's under ????
If the software has the SAME name as the 'pen & paper', you should
get the SAME ingredient's !!
By that reasoning, I could buy a "Coke Classic" in a bottle, then
when I bought "Coke Classic" in a can, I could get "Fresca" or any
other Coke product...because it came from the same factory.........Please.
Even the lowest of product's today have disclamier's,warning's or
conditions of purchase.
it's alright. That seem's like the classic "Bait and Switch" routine.
Why not just ask which shell the pea's under ????
If the software has the SAME name as the 'pen & paper', you should
get the SAME ingredient's !!
It's Sad :( to think that RPM could stoop that low. The bad thing for Jeep is he has no idea what the rules are for "DOT"Where the don't match up to the paper rules. RPM people could have made up anything.
LISTEN!!!...Word from the grape vine...Tom Console will release a new software this winter. :jump: Its the truth.
socantra
10-02-2007, 03:56 PM
Come on folks. Its a buyer beware world out there. One should find out what you get before you spend your money. If it is not in the product description, you should assume you don't get it. If there is a question, you should ask.
What you feel should be is not really a part of the equation. It is your responsibility to have answers to theses questions before you make the purchase. Its called due dilligence. If you have done it, you may have legal recourse. If not, you probably don't have squat.
By that reasoning, I could buy a "Coke Classic" in a bottle, then
when I bought "Coke Classic" in a can, I could get "Fresca" or any
other Coke product...because it came from the same factory.........Please.
When you buy a can of Coke, do you expect to get the formula for it?
When you buy a can of Coke, do you expect to get the formula for it?
Or your nickel deposit :jump:
Vigors
10-02-2007, 08:45 PM
.......the ENTIRE formula for Coke...from what I understand, it is the
LEAST guarded secret of all product's. In fact, I think they will sell
it to ANYONE for $19.95...however, you must first sign a waiver that
you aren't in anyway associated with Pepsi.....and you must state
that you haven't read " The Other Guy Blinked " !
DJofSD
10-02-2007, 09:01 PM
I own a cell phone. I demand to have the schematics and code.
dartman51
10-03-2007, 12:39 PM
John,
Speaking of Tom Console, I recently inherited the software program,U.R.T.I. from my brother-in-law with no manual. Does anyone here mabe have a copy that they could email to me. If so please let me know.
Thanks,
Tom
So, let me get this straight. I buy a paper and pencil method and use it and find it's working for me. Now the owner says he's put it into a software package and it will speed up my handicapping time. Now the software is nothing like the paper and pencil method, gets different horses, etc. That's all right? If you think so, I'll sell you the pepsi formula. There's got to be integrity between horse players instead of siding with the phoneys who don't give a darn about the horseplayer.
Jeep
headhawg
10-03-2007, 05:10 PM
There's got to be integrity between horse players instead of siding with the phoneys who don't give a darn about the horseplayer.
JeepI think that it's pretty obvious that the majority of vendors don't give a rat's ass about the horseplayer.
socantra
10-03-2007, 09:03 PM
So, let me get this straight. I buy a paper and pencil method and use it and find it's working for me. Now the owner says he's put it into a software package and it will speed up my handicapping time. Now the software is nothing like the paper and pencil method, gets different horses, etc. That's all right?
No! I think if your vendor tells you the software works just like the paper and pencil method you have previously purchased, you are entitled to exactly that. I'm on your side. If, under those circumstances, that is not what you got, you have been ripped off. I feel your pain. Feel better now?
njcurveball
10-03-2007, 09:53 PM
I buy a paper and pencil method and use it and find it's working for me. Now the owner says he's put it into a software package and it will speed up my handicapping time. Now the software is nothing like the paper and pencil method, gets different horses, etc. That's all right?
Anyone who writes something like this is ok, is probably just trying to yank your chain on here my friend. There are many people here who just try to stir the pot.
Any piece of software is sold to give you a product, not the code. Your product is faulty and has a defect.
If you contact the vendor and get no satisfaction with his answer, I hope you paid by credit card. If so, file a claim for the charge to be removed and never contact him again. But remember, you have to state the defect and give them a chance to correct it.
I have contacted a few of the people this board has trashed and got refunds for their products by simply writing a letter stating I was not satisfied and the reasons why.
best of luck,
Jim
So, let me get this straight. I buy a paper and pencil method and use it and find it's working for me. Now the owner says he's put it into a software package and it will speed up my handicapping time. Now the software is nothing like the paper and pencil method, gets different horses, etc. That's all right? If you think so, I'll sell you the pepsi formula. There's got to be integrity between horse players instead of siding with the phoneys who don't give a darn about the horseplayer.
Jeep
Be fair here. You changed the story halfway through. At first, you wnated the softwarae AND the code. Now, you come out with the fact that they are different. So don't judge earlier answers on faulty information you gave out.
My statements were hypothetical. I just wanted to see what the feelings were about the responsibilities of the system seller. If you got the impression I was waffeling, I guess I didn't express myself well enough. I know now that no matter what you ask even if it's just for an opinion, someone who is a lot smarter and wiser than you will take issue with it.
Jeep
skate
10-04-2007, 02:57 PM
thats easy.
if you buy Pepsi and just use their formula.
coke says its the same, bingo;)
thoroughbred
10-06-2007, 06:14 PM
The documentation with our CompuTrak handicapping program at least shows how it was derived, i.e., the fundamental mathematics behind it.
Two documents are applicable: "Engineering Analysis of Thoroughbred Racing" and its "Addendum."
Both can be viewed at our website: www.revelationprofits.com
Tom Barrister
10-07-2007, 04:28 PM
It's been said often in this thread, and I'll also chime in. With software, the conventional rule is that you're not entitled to the source code, unless the developer chooses to offer it. Since offering the source code would allow others to program the same thing (copyright laws notwithstanding), most commercial software developers don't make their software open source.
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